Did Obama campaign bar two Muslim women from photo?

cornnifer wrote:

First of all, once again, "muslim" isn't a race or ethnicity. Its a religion. Now, to answer your question, Yes, i would have no choice but to handle clinton or mccain in the same fashion. This is just dumb.

Yes but they were removed because of their appearance not their beliefs.

I have no choice but to believe you but I have to say based on your past posts regarding Hillary, it is a bit hard to swallow.

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Who knows....race is a huge issue we shouldn't ignore one week and the next it's grasping at straws....

I don't think Race was ever an issue.

I think Rev Wright was grasping at straws.

I think Obama's church in general was grasping at straws.

I think the Muslim thing was grasping at straws.

It has nothing to do with Obama as a candidate which we all know you don't support.

And being a Muslim is not a race its a religion. It would be more like refusing to have two Jews in yamika's sit behind him.

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

I don't think Race was ever an issue.

I think Rev Wright was grasping at straws.

I think Obama's church in general was grasping at straws.

I think the Muslim thing was grasping at straws.

It has nothing to do with Obama as a candidate which we all know you don't support.

And being a Muslim is not a race its a religion. It would be more like refusing to have two Jews in yamika's sit behind him.

Yeah, it's not race but it's still along the same lines, discrimination against someone/thing that is different from what it accepted(in their eyes).

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

That's fair enough but unless it was Obama himself who pointed out the 2 Muslims and said they can not sit behind me when I speak then its a non issue for Obama.

Rhinocerous Surprise is correct in that the real issue is America's intolerance for other cultures, religions, and races.

Well America wasn't given the chance to be intolerant in this case so you can't blame them.

It was this whole notion of feeding into perceived intolerance that caused this episode instead of making the decision based on what the campaign volunteers actually tolerated, themselves.....and that was my whole problem in the thread last week where there was a discussion on racism. It was all about basing decisions/actions on what was the perceived level of racism among others around us instead of looking inwards and not making the same race based judgments, ourselves. We are all in control of what we think and do and we all make up society. If we want a society less rooted in racism and discrimination then it's time we stopped perpetuating it.

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Well America wasn't given the chance to be intolerant in this case so you can't blame them.

It was this whole notion of feeding into perceived intolerance that caused this episode instead of making the decision based on what the campaign volunteers actually tolerated, themselves.....and that was my whole problem in the thread last week where there was a discussion on racism. It was all about basing decisions/actions on what was the perceived level of racism among others around us instead of looking inwards and not making the same race based judgments, ourselves. We are all in control of what we think and do and we all make up society. If we want a society less rooted in racism and discrimination then it's time we stopped perpetuating it.

I don't think there is anyone to blame per se. Not everything has to have a fall person to take the blame for an incident like this.

Its just another example of a couple of Americans who made poor judgement based on some prejudices they had against Muslims. Because they worked for Obama the Obama camp was forced to respond which they did.

But it is more of an issue with America's intolerance then an issue with the Barak Obama campaign for president.

MrBrian wrote:

Yeah so all this shows is that Obama is just another pathetic politician.

Exactly, and he is handled and protected by his staff just as any other politician would be, even more so as a candidate for President. That is what staff's do.

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

I don't think there is anyone to blame per se. Not everything has to have a fall person to take the blame for an incident like this.

Its just another example of a couple of Americans who made poor judgement based on some prejudices they had against Muslims. Because they worked for Obama the Obama camp was forced to respond which they did.

But it is more of an issue with America's intolerance then an issue with the Barak Obama campaign for president.

So you think the volunteers acted alone and that they held personal prejudices against Muslims?

This issue had nothing to do with America's anything...it was 'volunteers' inside Obama's campaign who made the call according to you and they either made the call based on their own prejudices or they made the call based on their perception of America's prejudices. At some point you have to do what's right based on what you actually believe and take responsibility for your actions. You can't justify wrongdoings just because you felt you had to do it based on what you thought would be acceptable to a 'discriminatory America'....doing that makes you part of that very problem. If they had made the call to let these women have their seats then it would in fact be America's turn to react and we could have that discussion.

cornnifer wrote:

It isn't PERCIEVED intolerance, Abook, its very REAL intolerance, and America, in general, HAS been given the chance, time and time again, and failed miserably. It started with the very first bogus e-mail that spread like ebola across the internet before this campaign even started. Its unfortunate, but politics is, in fact a game, and you can't win without playing the game. You don't win the superbowl by sending onto the field a pitcher, catcher, four infielders, and three outfielders.
Furthermore, the fact remains that these people were seated, probably before Obama, himself even arived at the venue. All this amounts to is questionable play calling by unpaid volunteers. Cheerleaders basically.

So how you play the game to get the win is of no importance? No wonder we get such sorry 'leaders'...

Everything is based on a perception. And how you act/react based on these perceptions against your own core beliefs of right and wrong is highly important if we wish to evolve past these very problems you speak of.

America or at least the majority of America's voters are supporting Obama right now, no? And it is my perception that the majority of Americans are not intolerant of Muslims, didn't buy the spin about Obama being Muslim that's already out there or they didn't care if he was either way.....so why would anyone feel the need to compromise their values and commit an act of intolerance, themselves?


also....I am not saying this is a reason to not vote Obama. This is just interesting discussion.

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

So how you play the game to get the win is of no importance? No wonder we get such sorry 'leaders'...

Everything is based on a perception. And how you act/react based on these perceptions against your own core beliefs of right and wrong is highly important if we wish to evolve past these very problems you speak of.

.

Of course it matters. But the truth still remains that you can't win a football game with a baseball team. Perhaps a better analogy would be a chess match. In chess, to be successful you must anticipate your opponets moves several turns in advance. This current episode might be seen as sacrificing a couple of pawns to save one's queen. Furthermore, it isn't the Obama campaign that established the current rules. Obama is in the awkward position of trying to run the type of campaign he wishes while keeping himself in a position to win. The problem with that is there is someone on the other side of the board forcing him to make moves, out of unfortunate necessity, that he would rather not make.
In addition to all this, as everyone knows, losers don't make the rules. He has to actually win first. (And the point still exists that he wasn't the one seating these people. It wasn't even paid staffers).

Now let me ask you the same thing you asked me. Were this a Nader event, would you be so quick to condemn him for minor, questionable decisions made by his unpaid volunteers?

cornnifer wrote:

Of course it matters. But the truth still remains that you can't win a football game with a baseball team. Perhaps a better analogy would be a chess match. In chess, to be successful you must anticipate your opponets moves several turns in advance. This current episode might be seen as sacrificing a couple of pawns to save one's queen. Furthermore, it isn't the Obama campaign that established the current rules. Obama is in the awkward position of trying to run the type of campaign he wishes while keeping himself in a position to win. The problem with that is there is someone on the other side of the board forcing him to make moves, out of unfortunate necessity, that he would rather not make.
In addition to all this, as everyone knows, losers don't make the rules. He has to actually win first. (And the point still exists that he wasn't the one seating these people. It wasn't even paid staffers).

Now let me ask you the same thing you asked me. Were this a Nader event, would you be so quick to condemn him for minor, questionable decisions made by his unpaid volunteers?

A good chess player isn't forced to make bad moves. And no one can force you to do something you view as wrong....that's just another form of lifting personal responsibility in an effort to place the blame outside of yourself. To get past these problems within our society we need not play by crooked rules in a rigged game....we make new rules by living within them ourselves first and foremost and then taking responsibility for it when we don't.

I'm not even condemning Obama here....I'm commenting on how people think this sort of behavior is justifiable. So yes, if it were Nader's campaign I would still have the same concerns.