Obama could have won, though. By doing the right thing, now I know he personally didn't pick them out and had the moved, but I disagree that it was a no win situation.
Obama could have done the right thing and that is standing up against prejudices as he claims to do in his speeches. He could lead by example so to speak.
What's the point in preaching all that stuff if you're afraid to stand by it?
I'll tell you, gaining votes. And if a candidate is willing to set aside his principles to gain votes... you have to ask yourself how real his principles really are and if they're not just another way of playing the game (you know, the beast known as political campaigning).
edit: the answer to your question is fairly easy, by the way. What's more damaging? The apology is. The pictures would have shown Obama is a man of his word, or not as much but that at least he doesn't have a problem at all with muslims sitting behind him, regardless of other people's opinions.
Your making the assumption that Obama was aware beforehand that he knew these two women were asked to move. A candidate usually doesn't come out until everyone is seated, so, I don't see how he could have acknowledged the incident during the actual event, nor do I see it as reflecting negatively against his principles.
If he was afraid it would have been dismissed and sweep under the incident under the rug, that would have been worse than an apology.
Its hard to know what he preaches because everyday there seems to be another bullshit - mole to mountain - comment. Maybe that's the new strategy.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have mine and others have theirs.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
I'm not saying Obama is personally responsible for this incident - I never once said that. What I am saying is:
1 - This incident, whether Obama supporters like it or not, is part of Obama's campaign, and while he wasn't directly involved, it does reflect badly on him.
2 - Obama's campaign shouldn't be so touchy about being associated with Muslims. If their platform is change, and unity, playing the Political Prejudice game shouldn't be on their agenda.
3 - You can't excuse discrimination just because it's politically motivated. In fact, especially if it's politically motivated.
1. so, he's not personally responsible, but it badly reflects on him...I wonder, if he's not responsible, why does it reflect badly on him...?
2. so you say....while I don't agree with the choice to move these fine ladies, I do understand...I'm not saying this ok...I'm just saying...
3. as I said, this is horrible...perhaps the worst thing to ever ever ever happen...Obama should take these women on the campaign trail and bring them up on stage at each event and kiss their behinds...maybe, just maybe, everything will be ok...
1. so, he's not personally responsible, but it badly reflects on him...I wonder, if he's not responsible, why does it reflect badly on him...?
2. so you say....while I don't agree with the choice to move these fine ladies, I do understand...I'm not saying this ok...I'm just saying...
3. as I said, this is horrible...perhaps the worst thing to ever ever ever happen...Obama should take these women on the campaign trail and bring them up on stage at each event and kiss there behinds...maybe, just maybe, everything will be ok...
1 - it reflects badly on him because it's part of his campaign. Just like any when any staff member fucks up in a very public way, it reflects badly on whatever company they're affiliated with..
2 - I understand why they made the decision. I'm just saying that this decision doesn't jibe with the larger campaign.
3 - Right.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
everyone finds a way to justify everything Obama (or his campaign) does. It does not matter if Obama personally moved the two Muslim women, the fact that his campaign did it reflects poorly on him... you don't have to be PERSONALLY responsible for something for it to reflect poorly on you. If Hillary's campaign were to do this, the Obama supporters would go nuts.
"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"
are you fucking kidding me?
for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.
everyone finds a way to justify everything Obama (or his campaign) does. It does not matter if Obama personally moved the two Muslim women, the fact that his campaign did it reflects poorly on him... you don't have to be PERSONALLY responsible for something for it to reflect poorly on you. If Hillary's campaign were to do this, the Obama supporters would go nuts.
"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"
are you fucking kidding me?
for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.
right on, brother....
As I've said, Obama should bow down to these ladies and kiss their asses at every campaign stop....
by the way, Hillary's campaign did this sort of thing at her stop in Wilmington, NC...only the workers lined up African Americans to sit behind her...
everyone finds a way to justify everything Obama (or his campaign) does. It does not matter if Obama personally moved the two Muslim women, the fact that his campaign did it reflects poorly on him... you don't have to be PERSONALLY responsible for something for it to reflect poorly on you. If Hillary's campaign were to do this, the Obama supporters would go nuts.
"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"
are you fucking kidding me?
for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.
Werd.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
everyone finds a way to justify everything Obama (or his campaign) does. It does not matter if Obama personally moved the two Muslim women, the fact that his campaign did it reflects poorly on him... you don't have to be PERSONALLY responsible for something for it to reflect poorly on you. If Hillary's campaign were to do this, the Obama supporters would go nuts.
"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"
are you fucking kidding me?
for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.
If Obama didn't have anything to do with throwing out the ladies then how does one make the leap that hes fearful of being called a Muslim?
The fact is nobody knows who made this decision or why it was is made but I do know that its easy for Non Obama supporters to jump on him for this. Just like its easy for Obama supporters to ignore the incident as we feel it has no real bearing on the campaign. Typical Politics strikes again.
The kicker for me is that its mostly Nader supporters on this board who are all over him for this incident. I thought you guys wanted an atypical politician but you're resorting to typical politics in attacking someone for something that has no bearing on whether hes a qualified leader or not. I would expect it from Sean Hannity and the lot but coming from you guys it seems like it would have been beneath you. I seem to have overestimated the Nader supporters.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
The kicker for me is that its mostly Nader supporters on this board who are all over him for this incident. I thought you guys wanted an atypical politician but you're resorting to typical politics in attacking someone for something that has no bearing on whether hes a qualified leader or not. I would expect it from Sean Hannity and the lot but coming from you guys it seems like it would have been beneath you. I seem to have overestimated the Nader supporters.
I'm not a Nader supporter at all. I've not uttered one word in support of the man on this board ever. I'm an ethicist...I'm concerned with ethics and accountability.
Ethics and the discernment of fine lines of behaviour and accountability is appropriate, especially re: a potential leader of a country.
I can understand why people would prefer to see otherwise.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'm not a Nader supporter at all. I've not uttered one word in support of the man on this board ever. I'm an ethicist...I'm concerned with ethics and accountability.
Ethics and the discernment of fine lines of behaviour and accountability is appropriate, especially re: a potential leader of a country.
I can understand why people would prefer to see otherwise.
The Nader comment wasn't directed at you but you are supporting Rhinoceros Surprise for President who is an avid Nader supporter.
That said I do think Obama should issue a public response. But if he doesn't I don't find this incident important enough to throw away my support. Especially since I believe he had nothing to do with it.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
The kicker for me is that its mostly Nader supporters on this board who are all over him for this incident. I thought you guys wanted an atypical politician but you're resorting to typical politics in attacking someone for something that has no bearing on whether hes a qualified leader or not. I would expect it from Sean Hannity and the lot but coming from you guys it seems like it would have been beneath you. I seem to have overestimated the Nader supporters.
Nader supporters or not, it doesn't matter who we support. The fact of the matter is that what Obama's campaign did was discriminatory, ridiculous, and unethical. You don't have to be a supporter of any candidate to know that.
The Nader comment wasn't directed at you but you are supporting Rhinoceros Surprise for President who is an avid Nader supporter.
That said I do think Obama should issue a public response. But if he doesn't I don't find this incident important enough to throw away my support. Especially since I believe he had nothing to do with it.
If he's good enough for Rhino, he's good enough for anyone.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
If Obama didn't have anything to do with throwing out the ladies then how does one make the leap that hes fearful of being called a Muslim?
The fact is nobody knows who made this decision or why it was is made but I do know that its easy for Non Obama supporters to jump on him for this. Just like its easy for Obama supporters to ignore the incident as we feel it has no real bearing on the campaign. Typical Politics strikes again.
The kicker for me is that its mostly Nader supporters on this board who are all over him for this incident. I thought you guys wanted an atypical politician but you're resorting to typical politics in attacking someone for something that has no bearing on whether hes a qualified leader or not. I would expect it from Sean Hannity and the lot but coming from you guys it seems like it would have been beneath you. I seem to have overestimated the Nader supporters.
How have we resorted to 'Sean Hannity type typical politics'?
If anything has been 'typical politics', it's been the people who view this discriminatory action as justifiable in order to play crooked political ball while swearing they are all about wanting change.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
How have we resorted to 'Sean Hannity type typical politics'?
If anything has been 'typical politics', it's been the people who view this discriminatory action as justifiable in order to play crooked political ball while swearing they are all about wanting change.
I disagree because the fact that this even an issue is typical politics. Tell me how this has anything to do with the campaign? You do a very good job at sticking to the issues, so I was a little surprised that you were all over Obama for this as well when its pretty clear he had very little if anything to do with this incident.
And yes it does reflect poorly on him and his campaign which I'm sure was the jest of the tongue lashing the volunteers who did this received.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
The Nader comment wasn't directed at you but you are supporting Rhinoceros Surprise for President....
I support him as president, but that's just as a stepping stone to his world dominati...um, I mean leadership.
That said I do think Obama should issue a public response. But if he doesn't I don't find this incident important enough to throw away my support. Especially since I believe he had nothing to do with it.
I understand people have all kinds of variables they base their votes on, as it should be. I totally support that. I don't in any way suggest that people change their vote, or even overall opinion on this kind of issue.
What I find ethically questionable and unsettling is when people deny the facts, or justify or minimize discrimination. What people choose when they are pitted between a rock and a hard place tells a lot about their character (and I'm talking about the justifications of board members). My guess is that Obama has quite high ethics, personally, even though due to political maneuvering, he makes mistakes and has created the climate that this discriminatory behaviour stems from. Most of my concern in this thread is regarding his supporters on this board, who justify and minimize mistakes, rather than acknowledge them. It's just not realistic. Or indicative of discernment.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I think he's onto something though. The "lesser of two evils" thing is a hook.
He's not the best candidate... but he's not the worst... Obama 2008: Because Settling's So Much Easier.
I disagree with this assessment but its Hilarious all the same!!!
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I won't go that far but I think anyone who doesn't have a sense of humor regarding politics will drive themselves insane, and end up sounding like O'reilly...
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Comments
I do know puremagic supported removing someone based upon their religious dress, an action which is discriminatory.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Your making the assumption that Obama was aware beforehand that he knew these two women were asked to move. A candidate usually doesn't come out until everyone is seated, so, I don't see how he could have acknowledged the incident during the actual event, nor do I see it as reflecting negatively against his principles.
If he was afraid it would have been dismissed and sweep under the incident under the rug, that would have been worse than an apology.
Its hard to know what he preaches because everyday there seems to be another bullshit - mole to mountain - comment. Maybe that's the new strategy.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have mine and others have theirs.
1. so, he's not personally responsible, but it badly reflects on him...I wonder, if he's not responsible, why does it reflect badly on him...?
2. so you say....while I don't agree with the choice to move these fine ladies, I do understand...I'm not saying this ok...I'm just saying...
3. as I said, this is horrible...perhaps the worst thing to ever ever ever happen...Obama should take these women on the campaign trail and bring them up on stage at each event and kiss their behinds...maybe, just maybe, everything will be ok...
1 - it reflects badly on him because it's part of his campaign. Just like any when any staff member fucks up in a very public way, it reflects badly on whatever company they're affiliated with..
2 - I understand why they made the decision. I'm just saying that this decision doesn't jibe with the larger campaign.
3 - Right.
"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"
are you fucking kidding me?
for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.
right on, brother....
As I've said, Obama should bow down to these ladies and kiss their asses at every campaign stop....
by the way, Hillary's campaign did this sort of thing at her stop in Wilmington, NC...only the workers lined up African Americans to sit behind her...
Werd.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If Obama didn't have anything to do with throwing out the ladies then how does one make the leap that hes fearful of being called a Muslim?
The fact is nobody knows who made this decision or why it was is made but I do know that its easy for Non Obama supporters to jump on him for this. Just like its easy for Obama supporters to ignore the incident as we feel it has no real bearing on the campaign. Typical Politics strikes again.
The kicker for me is that its mostly Nader supporters on this board who are all over him for this incident. I thought you guys wanted an atypical politician but you're resorting to typical politics in attacking someone for something that has no bearing on whether hes a qualified leader or not. I would expect it from Sean Hannity and the lot but coming from you guys it seems like it would have been beneath you. I seem to have overestimated the Nader supporters.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Ethics and the discernment of fine lines of behaviour and accountability is appropriate, especially re: a potential leader of a country.
I can understand why people would prefer to see otherwise.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The Nader comment wasn't directed at you but you are supporting Rhinoceros Surprise for President who is an avid Nader supporter.
That said I do think Obama should issue a public response. But if he doesn't I don't find this incident important enough to throw away my support. Especially since I believe he had nothing to do with it.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
If he's good enough for Rhino, he's good enough for anyone.
How have we resorted to 'Sean Hannity type typical politics'?
If anything has been 'typical politics', it's been the people who view this discriminatory action as justifiable in order to play crooked political ball while swearing they are all about wanting change.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
to the Swift Boats!!!
and Johnny McGeritol has?????
gotta be a retarded monkey to not see Obama clearly is the one who would lead America in a different direction.
lesser of two evils baby
are you some sort of parody? honest question.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Parody of whom or what? another honest question.
I think he's onto something though. The "lesser of two evils" thing is a hook.
Obama 2008: Because Settling's So Much Easier.
I disagree because the fact that this even an issue is typical politics. Tell me how this has anything to do with the campaign? You do a very good job at sticking to the issues, so I was a little surprised that you were all over Obama for this as well when its pretty clear he had very little if anything to do with this incident.
And yes it does reflect poorly on him and his campaign which I'm sure was the jest of the tongue lashing the volunteers who did this received.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I understand people have all kinds of variables they base their votes on, as it should be. I totally support that. I don't in any way suggest that people change their vote, or even overall opinion on this kind of issue.
What I find ethically questionable and unsettling is when people deny the facts, or justify or minimize discrimination. What people choose when they are pitted between a rock and a hard place tells a lot about their character (and I'm talking about the justifications of board members). My guess is that Obama has quite high ethics, personally, even though due to political maneuvering, he makes mistakes and has created the climate that this discriminatory behaviour stems from. Most of my concern in this thread is regarding his supporters on this board, who justify and minimize mistakes, rather than acknowledge them. It's just not realistic. Or indicative of discernment.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I don't have the answer for that...if I did maybe it would all start making more sense to me.
I need a starting point for true appreciation.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I disagree with this assessment but its Hilarious all the same!!!
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Yes, because that is a new concept??
If you ever trust/believe/know that someone is best choice whom you have not met than you're psycho.
There always 2 candidates and until that changes it will ALWAYS BE THE LESSER OF 2 EVILS.
unless your mom runs.
"You don't love me, you just love who you think I am...."
The worst part is, the slogan came quick. It was the amount of fucking text formatting that took the most time on that post.
...come on...you can say it.....
..."Rhinocerous Surprise '08"...!!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Rhino '08: He's got as many as 3 supporters!
I won't go that far but I think anyone who doesn't have a sense of humor regarding politics will drive themselves insane, and end up sounding like O'reilly...
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)