Did Obama campaign bar two Muslim women from photo?

angelica

puremagic wrote:

They were ADMITTED to the function, not TURNED AWAY. They were MOVED f rom a seating area not REMOVED from the function. Take a step back in time and you'll recall that Bush wouldn't even let people who disagreed with his viewpoints near his functions and those that managed to get in, were FORCIBLY removed.

Obama has been put under a microscope with people looking for ANY little thing to turn into an all out nasty media bash feast. Obama didn't benefit from this action because it presented a no win situation. A photo or an apology, which is more damaging, which is more lasting? His staff's action as a prevent measure is something I don't have a problem with.

Does it mean the person who ask them to move, or the people who understand why such an action was taken are prejudice and practice racial or religious discrimination, NO. It means they understand the nature of the beast known as POLITICAL CAMPAIGNING and are able to see through the smoke screens when people try to pigeonhole an issue into one category.

You understand all that, what you seemingly can't handle is the fact that I understand it because you have this overwhelming desire to paint my understanding as racial and discriminatory, while other statements within this thread are clearly racial and discriminatory, but, hey, whatever gets you off.

You painted your view as discriminatory by supporting discriminatory action. It's very simple.

Collin

puremagic wrote:

Obama didn't benefit from this action because it presented a no win situation. A photo or an apology, which is more damaging, which is more lasting? His staff's action as a prevent measure is something I don't have a problem with.

Obama could have won, though. By doing the right thing, now I know he personally didn't pick them out and had the moved, but I disagree that it was a no win situation.

Obama could have done the right thing and that is standing up against prejudices as he claims to do in his speeches. He could lead by example so to speak.

What's the point in preaching all that stuff if you're afraid to stand by it?

I'll tell you, gaining votes. And if a candidate is willing to set aside his principles to gain votes... you have to ask yourself how real his principles really are and if they're not just another way of playing the game (you know, the beast known as political campaigning).

edit: the answer to your question is fairly easy, by the way. What's more damaging? The apology is. The pictures would have shown Obama is a man of his word, or not as much but that at least he doesn't have a problem at all with muslims sitting behind him, regardless of other people's opinions.

Rhinocerous Surprise

puremagic wrote:

Does it mean the person who ask them to move, or the people who understand why such an action was taken are prejudice and practice racial or religious discrimination, NO. It means they understand the nature of the beast known as POLITICAL CAMPAIGNING and are able to see through the smoke screens when people try to pigeonhole an issue into one category.

But when you're a participant in political campaigning that includes racial or religious discrimination, you're part of the problem. The volunteers didn't do what was best for Obama's campaign, they did what best supported the broken value system of American politics.

Or are they one and the same?

puremagic

angelica wrote:

You painted your view as discriminatory by supporting discriminatory action. It's very simple.

You interpreted my view as supporting and justifying a discriminatory practice because YOU see this incident as some monumental discriminatory affront. I DON'T!!!!!!!!

I see it as a politically motivated incident, nothing more and nothing less. For me, it is just that simple.

puremagic

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

But when you're a participant in political campaigning that includes racial or religious discrimination, you're part of the problem. The volunteers didn't do what was best for Obama's campaign, they did what best supported the broken value system of American politics.

Or are they one and the same?

Did Obama initiate the racial and religious discriminatory practices, NO. What he has had to do, and what his campaign team has had to do is to is to tread lightly at every turn, every word and every appearance because of the RNC's slime campaign. Can a person make a change if they're not in the game? No! and Obama is no different than any other politican running for office when it comes to protecting his image. In Obama's case, its become two-fold, protecting and defending.

Rhinocerous Surprise

puremagic wrote:

Did Obama initiate the racial and religious discriminatory practices, NO. What he has had to do, and what his campaign team has had to do is to is to tread lightly at every turn, every word and every appearance because of the RNC's slime campaign. Can a person make a change if they're not in the game? No! and Obama is no different than any other politican running for office when it comes to protecting his image. In Obama's case, its become two-fold, protecting and defending.

I think your campaign's actions when you're the presumptive candidate count as being part of the game - this is how his administration handles difficult situations. Obama might not have initiated the discriminatory practices, but he's not exactly doing much to fix them. He's too pre-occupied proving that he's a good, all-American Christian.

You interpreted my view as supporting and justifying a discriminatory practice because YOU see this incident as some monumental discriminatory affront. I DON'T!!!!!!!!

I see it as a politically motivated incident, nothing more and nothing less. For me, it is just that simple.

So discrimination is a-okay, as long as it's politically motivated?

inmytree

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

I think your campaign's actions when you're the presumptive candidate count as being part of the game - this is how his administration handles difficult situations. Obama might not have initiated the discriminatory practices, but he's not exactly doing much to fix them. He's too pre-occupied proving that he's a good, all-American Christian.



So discrimination is a-okay, as long as it's politically motivated?

yeah, this is a terrible thing....I mean, my goodness, a couple of non-paid workers made a choice to seat these women elsewhere....yeah, I guess Obama should be held accountable...heck, he should have gone right out and embraced these folks....he should commit his entire campaign to righting this horrible, horrible wrong....

angelica

puremagic wrote:

You interpreted my view as supporting and justifying a discriminatory practice because YOU see this incident as some monumental discriminatory affront. I DON'T!!!!!!!!

I see it as a politically motivated incident, nothing more and nothing less. For me, it is just that simple.

discrimination:treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination


When we deal with one based on their group and the identity of such (as in religious dress) and treat them based on that, rather than on individual merit -- ie: such as the person in question acted unruly or inappropriate, that's exactly what discrimination is.

I observed you supporting such action. And justifying it. No interpretation.

inmytree

angelica wrote:

discrimination:treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination


When we deal with one based on their group and the identity of such (as in religious dress) and treat them based on that, rather than on individual merit -- ie: such as the person in question acted unruly or inappropriate, that's exactly what discrimination is.

I observed you supporting such action. And justifying it. No interpretation.

yup, life is so black and white, no gray areas exist....

two workers make a poor choice and Puremagic is a racist....that sounds right...


please note: I do not in any way, shape or from think Puremagic is a racist...

Rhinocerous Surprise

inmytree wrote:

yeah, this is a terrible thing....I mean, my goodness, a couple of non-paid workers made a choice to seat these women elsewhere....yeah, I guess Obama should be held accountable...heck, he should have gone right out and embraced these folks....he should commit his entire campaign to righting this horrible, horrible wrong....

I'm not saying Obama is personally responsible for this incident - I never once said that. What I am saying is:

1 - This incident, whether Obama supporters like it or not, is part of Obama's campaign, and while he wasn't directly involved, it does reflect badly on him.

2 - Obama's campaign shouldn't be so touchy about being associated with Muslims. If their platform is change, and unity, playing the Political Prejudice game shouldn't be on their agenda.

3 - You can't excuse discrimination just because it's politically motivated. In fact, especially if it's politically motivated.

angelica

inmytree wrote:

yup, life is so black and white, no gray areas exist....

two workers make a poor choice and Puremagic is a racist....that sounds right...


please note: I do not in any way, shape or from think Puremagic is a racist...

I don't know whether puremagic is a racist.

I do know puremagic supported removing someone based upon their religious dress, an action which is discriminatory.

puremagic

Collin wrote:

Obama could have won, though. By doing the right thing, now I know he personally didn't pick them out and had the moved, but I disagree that it was a no win situation.

Obama could have done the right thing and that is standing up against prejudices as he claims to do in his speeches. He could lead by example so to speak.

What's the point in preaching all that stuff if you're afraid to stand by it?

I'll tell you, gaining votes. And if a candidate is willing to set aside his principles to gain votes... you have to ask yourself how real his principles really are and if they're not just another way of playing the game (you know, the beast known as political campaigning).

edit: the answer to your question is fairly easy, by the way. What's more damaging? The apology is. The pictures would have shown Obama is a man of his word, or not as much but that at least he doesn't have a problem at all with muslims sitting behind him, regardless of other people's opinions.

Your making the assumption that Obama was aware beforehand that he knew these two women were asked to move. A candidate usually doesn't come out until everyone is seated, so, I don't see how he could have acknowledged the incident during the actual event, nor do I see it as reflecting negatively against his principles.

If he was afraid it would have been dismissed and sweep under the incident under the rug, that would have been worse than an apology.

Its hard to know what he preaches because everyday there seems to be another bullshit - mole to mountain - comment. Maybe that's the new strategy.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have mine and others have theirs.

inmytree

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

I'm not saying Obama is personally responsible for this incident - I never once said that. What I am saying is:

1 - This incident, whether Obama supporters like it or not, is part of Obama's campaign, and while he wasn't directly involved, it does reflect badly on him.

2 - Obama's campaign shouldn't be so touchy about being associated with Muslims. If their platform is change, and unity, playing the Political Prejudice game shouldn't be on their agenda.

3 - You can't excuse discrimination just because it's politically motivated. In fact, especially if it's politically motivated.

1. so, he's not personally responsible, but it badly reflects on him...I wonder, if he's not responsible, why does it reflect badly on him...?

2. so you say....while I don't agree with the choice to move these fine ladies, I do understand...I'm not saying this ok...I'm just saying...

3. as I said, this is horrible...perhaps the worst thing to ever ever ever happen...Obama should take these women on the campaign trail and bring them up on stage at each event and kiss their behinds...maybe, just maybe, everything will be ok...

Rhinocerous Surprise

inmytree wrote:

1. so, he's not personally responsible, but it badly reflects on him...I wonder, if he's not responsible, why does it reflect badly on him...?

2. so you say....while I don't agree with the choice to move these fine ladies, I do understand...I'm not saying this ok...I'm just saying...

3. as I said, this is horrible...perhaps the worst thing to ever ever ever happen...Obama should take these women on the campaign trail and bring them up on stage at each event and kiss there behinds...maybe, just maybe, everything will be ok...

1 - it reflects badly on him because it's part of his campaign. Just like any when any staff member fucks up in a very public way, it reflects badly on whatever company they're affiliated with..

2 - I understand why they made the decision. I'm just saying that this decision doesn't jibe with the larger campaign.

3 - Right.

fuck

everyone finds a way to justify everything Obama (or his campaign) does. It does not matter if Obama personally moved the two Muslim women, the fact that his campaign did it reflects poorly on him... you don't have to be PERSONALLY responsible for something for it to reflect poorly on you. If Hillary's campaign were to do this, the Obama supporters would go nuts.

"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"

are you fucking kidding me?

for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.

inmytree

_outlaw wrote:

everyone finds a way to justify everything Obama (or his campaign) does. It does not matter if Obama personally moved the two Muslim women, the fact that his campaign did it reflects poorly on him... you don't have to be PERSONALLY responsible for something for it to reflect poorly on you. If Hillary's campaign were to do this, the Obama supporters would go nuts.

"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"

are you fucking kidding me?

for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.

right on, brother....

As I've said, Obama should bow down to these ladies and kiss their asses at every campaign stop....

by the way, Hillary's campaign did this sort of thing at her stop in Wilmington, NC...only the workers lined up African Americans to sit behind her...

Abookamongstthemany

_outlaw wrote:

everyone finds a way to justify everything Obama (or his campaign) does. It does not matter if Obama personally moved the two Muslim women, the fact that his campaign did it reflects poorly on him... you don't have to be PERSONALLY responsible for something for it to reflect poorly on you. If Hillary's campaign were to do this, the Obama supporters would go nuts.

"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"

are you fucking kidding me?

for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.

Werd.

Its Evolution Baby

_outlaw wrote:

everyone finds a way to justify everything Obama (or his campaign) does. It does not matter if Obama personally moved the two Muslim women, the fact that his campaign did it reflects poorly on him... you don't have to be PERSONALLY responsible for something for it to reflect poorly on you. If Hillary's campaign were to do this, the Obama supporters would go nuts.

"but.. but... people might think Obama is Muslim!!"

are you fucking kidding me?

for 1) being called a Muslim is not an insult. 2) If Obama has to throw away his morals and principles for fear of being called a 'muslim' on the internet by some ignorant assholes, then he does not deserve to rule the country, Period.

If Obama didn't have anything to do with throwing out the ladies then how does one make the leap that hes fearful of being called a Muslim?

The fact is nobody knows who made this decision or why it was is made but I do know that its easy for Non Obama supporters to jump on him for this. Just like its easy for Obama supporters to ignore the incident as we feel it has no real bearing on the campaign. Typical Politics strikes again.

The kicker for me is that its mostly Nader supporters on this board who are all over him for this incident. I thought you guys wanted an atypical politician but you're resorting to typical politics in attacking someone for something that has no bearing on whether hes a qualified leader or not. I would expect it from Sean Hannity and the lot but coming from you guys it seems like it would have been beneath you. I seem to have overestimated the Nader supporters.

angelica

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

The kicker for me is that its mostly Nader supporters on this board who are all over him for this incident. I thought you guys wanted an atypical politician but you're resorting to typical politics in attacking someone for something that has no bearing on whether hes a qualified leader or not. I would expect it from Sean Hannity and the lot but coming from you guys it seems like it would have been beneath you. I seem to have overestimated the Nader supporters.

I'm not a Nader supporter at all. I've not uttered one word in support of the man on this board ever. I'm an ethicist...I'm concerned with ethics and accountability.

Ethics and the discernment of fine lines of behaviour and accountability is appropriate, especially re: a potential leader of a country.

I can understand why people would prefer to see otherwise.

Smellyman2

"Two Muslim woman sit on Obama's campaign. He is obviously terrorist Jihadist, bent on the destruction of the US. To the Swift Boats!!!!"