Interesting thought I had.

PJammin' wrote:

i don't need respect from you. my respect comes from God. furthermore, you don't know my background in my studies, so you're grasping for air, my friend.

clearly you arent understanding. I said i could find it believable that you state a personal relationship if you were say, raised a Catholic with the bible... then grew up and starting forming your own beliefs based on the experience you had from being taught from the Bible. In this case i DO know your background of study IS the Bible and the Bible strictly alone, since you quote it so much.

PJammin' wrote:

once again, i don't seek your respect so your words are like dust off of my shoes. i find it amusing that you have no respect for someone who is trying to honor God's word instead of himself. why would i want to put my own spin on His Word. isn't that what some religions do? yes.

Again, I made it clear i don't care if you seek my respect...

I find something wrong with this. You said some religions put their own spin on it... Thats exactly what Catholics did with the Bible... you think the Bible is literally words that fell from Gods mouth onto the pages of a book? No, HUMANS put those words in a book believing it was really what he said, and since humans aren't perfect, those words can be not EXACTLY what he said. So its strange that you honor Gods words as what he actually said yet in the same breath said you agree religions put their own spin on it... it cant be both.

Also, one last thing... in one of your posts far back in this thread you said "we're not robots"... well, i think you are the perfect definition of a robot. Your only programming is to vomit verses from the bible when discussions come up.

Why waste your time anymore... every single post you ever make from now on should be short and sweet...


"Bible"

thats it. in response to everything and anything just type that word and hit "submit" to post it.

hippiemom wrote:

Are you really of the opinion that the bible is the exact word of god, and is infallible? Everything in there is the perfect truth revealed?

i'm putting my life on it.

but just for fun, lets say that most of the books are fantasy: noah's ark, david killing goliath, daniel and the lion's den, etc., etc. ok, lets throw those out and just focus on Christ and five books: matthew, mark, luke, john, and the book of acts. all FIVE books talk about this man Jesus and His Power to love, heal, and redeem His people. His message is consistent and the miracles performed are documented, and there were many more but they were too many to document. people need to stop doubting and trying disprove someone who is FOR YOU. they need to believe. nothing is going to happen if you don't believe. if you search those books out you will see that Jesus is the perfect truth, and He had such an impact on the world that it spread all over the globe. this about a man who wasn't even an actor or musician. HE deserves our attention, not some pop idol who goes in and out of rehab. once again, people can believe in what they want, i'm not trying to shove anything upon anyone. it's your life and how you live it is up to you. i'm just adding my thoughts in this thread.

scw156 wrote:

clearly you arent understanding. I said i could find it believable that you state a personal relationship if you were say, raised a Catholic with the bible... then grew up and starting forming your own beliefs based on the experience you had from being taught from the Bible. In this case i DO know your background of study IS the Bible and the Bible strictly alone, since you quote it so much.



Again, I made it clear i don't care if you seek my respect...

I find something wrong with this. You said some religions put their own spin on it... Thats exactly what Catholics did with the Bible... you think the Bible is literally words that fell from Gods mouth onto the pages of a book? No, HUMANS put those words in a book believing it was really what he said, and since humans aren't perfect, those words can be not EXACTLY what he said. So its strange that you honor Gods words as what he actually said yet in the same breath said you agree religions put their own spin on it... it cant be both.

Also, one last thing... in one of your posts far back in this thread you said "we're not robots"... well, i think you are the perfect definition of a robot. Your only programming is to vomit verses from the bible when discussions come up.

Why waste your time anymore... every single post you ever make from now on should be short and sweet...


"Bible"

thats it. in response to everything and anything just type that word and hit "submit" to post it.

"Bible"

Ahnimus wrote:

There is a jolly old man who wears a big red coat, he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when your awake, he brings gifts for all the good little boys and girls. He rides around on his flying sleigh with his raindeer, including rudolph the red nosed one, he does it all in one night. He is FOR YOU, why don't you believe?

because he didn't die on a cross for me.

mr ahnimus, do you even believe Jesus lived at all?

Ahnimus wrote:

Yes, I believe Jesus was a great man for his time. Similar to other miracle-mongers with fancy doctrines and stories like Odysseus or Apollonius. It doesn't really matter though.

i see. thanks for answering the question.

onelongsong wrote:

but i don't believe your evidence.

You don't believe cause and effect? You don't believe the brain matters and that tumors can affect brain processes? You don't belive synaptogensis, or the findings of Ben Libet and the subsequent peer experiments? What do you believe as evidence? That which you fantasize about?

Rats of Multa wrote:

perhaps the belief is that one has thoughts, and one can use those thoughts, and one can then use those useful thoughts to believe in free-will.

but of course you believe some mysterious force has already determined the nature of all thoughts, so youre basically a mindless brick wall.

??

Ok, so let's start with "one has thoughts" what causes those thoughts? If you answer that in any way, whether it's Hameroff's cohernece of microtubules and the collapse of quantum wave functions or some computational theory. You are still looking at a cause, and now you see how our own thoughts are not ours to choose, we have them, but our thoughts do not cause our thoughts. Certainly you can choose to believe in free-will, it's the natural thing to do, there is a significant purpose for the natural illusion of free-will. It's purpose is survivability and rational deliberation. However, that doesn't change reality.

The mysterious force is not what determines our thoughts. The mystery is in an idea of free-will, indeterminant will. Because it doesn't matter how you slice it, whether our thoughts are the result of some random process or cosmic intelligence, they are still determinants, there is no escaping determinism. The only way to hold free-will as a possibility is to ignore everything we know. Ignore the fact that tennis balls do not behave on their own, they require motivation. You must ignore all cause and effect, all randomness and believe in some other mysterious thing which cannot be described, the moment it is described it becomes a determinant.

onelongsong wrote:

thank you. i got busy and couldn't get to the computer for a while. you answered that beautifully but i'd also like to add that i do believe in cause and effect; etc; but knowing how something works doesn't explain WHY it works. dismissing the parts of science that doesn't fit into the mold of his ideas doesn't help his cause either. i know how it works; what you can't answer is why. that's why i don't accept it.

Why does it work? It has to or we wouldn't be asking these questions. And here I'm the one critisized for reductionism. Why does heat cause water to boil? We know how it works, but why? You are looking for purpose as your background in theology would incline you to do, but consider a universe without purpose and the question "Why does it work?" is pointless. Assuming you mean "What is the purpose?" rather than "What causes it to work?" What causes it to work is the nature of the universe. At some point we must say to ourselves there is knowledge we cannot attain, such as the turtle problem and making assumptions about that knowledge doesn't get us any closer to it, it's all just speculation, which is fine if you find comfort in it. The problem arises when you set policy based on it. In all of our attainable knowledge, there is no evidence of Free-will and plenty evidence against it.

Rats of Multa wrote:

sure thing. i know Ahnimus is just itching to reinstigate a conversation on free-will, so i figured id say something.

im kind of a fence-sitter on the issue, but thats mostly because i dont feel any deep-seated need to believe in a God for guidance or inspiration. Beauty is everything, and everywhere too; ive developed the ability to enact happiness simply from the questions surrounding such concepts as determinism or nihilism or idealism or whatever other romances philosophiles [and philosophillies, for all the ladies out there,.. ] can conjure. i suppose one may say i'm a wonderer.

How about you guys respond to me if you take this at all seriously instead of jerking off each others egos. I just hit you with undeniable reality. You must choose ignorance to believe in free-will, you cannot describe free-will or it's cause. You have to ignore me and the world around you to have any validity in a belief in free-will.