"who gives a shit if YOU believe being gay isn't something you're born with. as a gay guy, i KNOW it was. i fought against it as much as i possibly could and guess what, all it did was make me suicidal and a crappy person in basically every way. after i realized that i couldn't change somethign that i was born with, i became a much better person. it's ridiculous for you, someone who is not gay, to say "people aren't born gay." how the fuck would you know?"
im curious what your answer to this is? is he lying? did he not try to choose hard enough?
Do you really want to know? I'll tell you. I think people can try to get rid of certain things, such as alcoholism, and it still defeats them because they didn't do what they should have done. I've known some gay people that turned to God , truly, and yeah, they struggled and went through hell, but they kept to it and prayed and fasted and sought God and overcame their problem. I'm certainly not perfect, but I struggle every day to do what I know is right. Don't get ticked off at me, I'm not the one who said homosexuality is an abomination. I cannot deny what I know and what I've been through. I don't hate homosexuals, but I hate what they do.
I don't picket, I don't protest. I just live my life and mind my own business. You people sound like you have so little to do, that you go around looking for arguments. If God says doing something is going to send my soul to hell, then I'm going to do my best not to do it. Maybe you should stop and think about that. Do you actually want to go to hell? Am I wrong for not wanting people to go to hell? I don't go to church, I don't go door-to-door. I don't even mention my beliefs unless somebody directly asks me, or I need to explain myself on something.
This isn't about me hating, it's the opposite. I don't want to see people go to hell. I know without a doubt it exists, I know without a doubt Satan's greatest achievement is making people believe he doesn't exist.
A HUGE problem I see all of these so-called Christians. They've made people bitter against Christians, which stinks for people who actually are real Christians, because they get thrown into the same lump. My guide for life is what the Bible says, and if some of you believe it's an outdated story book written my man, then fine. But I warn you, do NOT speak against it. It's not me you're going to have to answer to, it's God.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
Know why? Because hell doesn't discriminate, hell does not require worship, thanks or praise. Hell requires nothing of me.
If I think of this God figure and all it's demands and rules and that if I do not follow them I will spend eternity burning in hell, that sounds like Satan to me.
The description of Satan is barely different than the description of God. The Bible says that Satan is the master of deception, perhaps it's referring to it's self. "Obey me or serve in hell for eternity" deception? Could the Biblical God be Satan?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
that's pretty much where i part ways with judeo-christian/islamic religion. i have a hard time believing there is anything truly unique about humans aside from the fact that we developed survival techniques so effective we now have time to sit around and talk shop about our place in the universe anytime i hear someone say we are created in god's image, i cannot help but think what is really happening is they are creating a god in their image. and im VERY uncomfortable with that. it ends up infecting the doctrine, so you end up with a god who's really kinda petty and jealous and insecure.
this is another issue i have with christianity. you admit they are in the old testament but say christ renders them inapplicable. why only those particular provisions but not homosexuality? i dont recall any passages where jesus said the old rules about proper slavery techniques, or raping virgins to make them your wife were out, but homos are still wrong. who gets to pick and choose which parts of the OT are no longer relevant and which are?
Here's a verse in the NT.
1 Corinth 6:9-10
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, no effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind......shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Another:
Romans 1:27-
"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
Know why? Because hell doesn't discriminate, hell does not require worship, thanks or praise. Hell requires nothing of me.
If I think of this God figure and all it's demands and rules and that if I do not follow them I will spend eternity burning in hell, that sounds like Satan to me.
The description of Satan is barely different than the description of God. The Bible says that Satan is the master of deception, perhaps it's referring to it's self. "Obey me or serve in hell for eternity" deception? Could the Biblical God be Satan?
You're worshiping satan by doing what he wants you to do. You just don't realize it. Not only that, God has a right, seeing at he is your creator, to tell you what he requires. Not only THAT, but all of the things God requires are good. Not one of them is bad. The thing that makes it bad is people just love to sin so much. They don't want to give it up.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
i'll simplify the answer for you without getting into details. at this point, i'm the only Christian willing to put up or shut up.
you have a choice to serve God or something that is not God. the people who are living a gay lifestyle choose not to serve God. so, it's a choice. i'm done for now. i've answered more questions than any other Christian in this thread so the others can pick up the slack. i have other things i need to be doing. peace.
that's a bit of a different question though. re you a lawyer? cos while i can see your point, i was asking about the choice to be gay. you're saying it's a choice to act on gay thoughts and feelings. im asking are those feelings a choice or born? cos a lot of the christians say it's bogus that people are born gay and think they ought to be able to switch it off and go straight any time they want, which seems ridiculous to me. you're not answering one way or the other on that one though i think your answer is legit. anyway, you ahve been on the hotseat a lot and i've finally got some takers on this one so i'll let you be in peace
Here's a verse in the NT.
1 Corinth 6:9-10
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, no effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind......shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Another:
Romans 1:27-
"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
those were both letters of apostles, not the word of jesus. again, men deciding what stays and what goes based on their agenda.
You're worshiping satan by doing what he wants you to do. You just don't realize it. Not only that, God has a right, seeing at he is your creator, to tell you what he requires. Not only THAT, but all of the things God requires are good. Not one of them is bad. The thing that makes it bad is people just love to sin so much. They don't want to give it up.
No. I'm questioning the goodness of God and it would seem that God is not forgiving.
Luke 6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful
Merciful unless you don't do what he says, then he forces the worst possible punishment on you, eternity in agonizing pain. That doesn't make any sense. Why? Just to feel special that people worship him.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
When Jesus was crucified, it didn't take away the old commandments....Jesus himself said that keeping the commandments is the love of God. What it took away was the sacrificing of animals for sin. That's the only thing that changed...that and now anybody could get saved, whether or not they were physical Jews.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
^ They were moved by God to write those things. I can't get over how disillusioned the world is.
Disillusioned is good.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
No. I'm questioning the goodness of God and it would seem that God is not forgiving.
Luke 6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful
Merciful unless you don't do what he says, then he forces the worst possible punishment on you, eternity in agonizing pain. That doesn't make any sense. Why? Just to feel special that people worship him.
He's merciful because he'll forgive anything. Except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. God can't go against His Word. If the Bible says if you don't repent you'll go to hell, then he can't go back on that.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
what is your take on deadmosquito's post? so far, there hasn't been a single one of the "being gay is a choice" christians willing to confront his testimony.
Is that what i am? A "being gay is a choice Christian"? First of all despite all of your foolish stereotyping, i don't "mock", "fear" or "loathe" those who practice homosexuality. in absolutely no way do i "hate fags". i couldn't care less (thanks Dunk ). Furthermore, my belief that homosexuality is more than anything else a social construct has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that i am a Christian. Get off it. You presume to know everything about ME because i am of Christian faith"? Seek help. You have issues.
As far as his post, i say "cool runnings". i'm sincerely glad that he has found peace and i wish him joy and happiness in all his current and future endeavors. Thats pretty much it. He's right. i'm not gay so how do i know. i've never claimed to "know" anything in regards to this.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
When Jesus was crucified, it didn't take away the old commandments....Jesus himself said that keeping the commandments is the love of God. What it took away was the sacrificing of animals for sin. That's the only thing that changed...that and now anybody could get saved, whether or not they were physical Jews.
Why did God in all his Mercy only save Jews to begin with? Why did God choose a certain people?
Could it be that all the people that made up the story were Jews?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Don't get ticked off at me, I'm not the one who said homosexuality is an abomination.
don't get ticked off at you? don't be such a wimp. i don't think Christ ever said, "don't get ticked off at me." stick to your beliefs and live with the attacks.
A HUGE problem I see all of these so-called Christians. They've made people bitter against Christians, which stinks for people who actually are real Christians, because they get thrown into the same lump. My guide for life is what the Bible says, and if some of you believe it's an outdated story book written my man, then fine.
who cares what other Christians do. deal with the reality of life.
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
The Jews were first one man, and God chose that man and promised he would use his seed as his people. That's how the physical Jews became God's people.
However, these people rejected Christ, and so God rejected them and turned to the Gentiles. A physical Jew is now just a Gentile, all people are the same, and those that keep God's word are his people.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
I don't hate homosexuals, but I hate what they do.
This isn't about me hating, it's the opposite.
it is about you hating. you said so yourself.
as a recovering alcoholic, yes, those things can be overcome. my point is, why bother? if YOU think being gay is wrong, fine, dont be gay. but i don't see why that means you feel compelled to lecture people or mock them becos you think they are going to hell. im glad you are not one of those people who does. if someone is gay and it bothers them, they can come to you for advice on changing if they want. but browbeating them into it is sick. alcoholics change becos the alcohol ruins their lives... jail, unable to perform jobs, abusing friends and loved ones. homosexuality causes none of these problems, the problems it causes is abuse from the christians you describe at the end. the evil of homosexuality is in the eye of the beholder, whereas the evil of alcoholism takes its toll on the lives of others and society in general. your personal belief is one thing and you are entitled to it, but such personal beliefs have no business regulating the private conduct of others. nor should it entitle anyone to mock, abuse, or insult other people as human beings.
but taking this back to the original question, religion is of another stripe. it sounds like you are saying homosexuality is an affliction like alcoholism. do you mock alcoholics for their illness or do you show them compassion? they are sick people and i would think your views on homosexuality would spark similar compassion.
religion is different. it is a set of beliefs, but beliefs that are chosen. you choose to be christian instead of muslim, or democract instead of republican. thus poking fun at those is ok. yes, some take it too far and move into abuse and hatred, but that's something you just have to live with. for every atheist going too far in his ridicule of christianity, a christian is going too far in his ridicule of heathens. there's just too many assholes in this world
He's merciful because he'll forgive anything. Except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. God can't go against His Word. If the Bible says if you don't repent you'll go to hell, then he can't go back on that.
Cool, I won't repent then.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The Jews were first one man, and God chose that man and promised he would use his seed as his people. That's how the physical Jews became God's people.
However, these people rejected Christ, and so God rejected them and turned to the Gentiles. A physical Jew is now just a Gentile, all people are the same, and those that keep God's word are his people.
God is omniscient and new before they would reject Christ, so why would he need to change his word?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Is that what i am? A "being gay is a choice Christian"? First of all despite all of your foolish stereotyping, i don't "mock", "fear" or "loathe" those who practice homosexuality. in absolutely no way do i "hate fags". i couldn't care less (thanks Dunk ). Furthermore, my belief that homosexuality is more than anything else a social construct has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that i am a Christian. Get off it. You presume to know everything about ME because i am of Christian faith"? Seek help. You have issues.
As far as his post, i say "cool runnings". i'm sincerely glad that he has found peace and i wish him joy and happiness in all his current and future endeavors. Thats pretty much it. He's right. i'm not gay so how do i know. i've never claimed to "know" anything in regards to this.
just a few pages ago you asserted that being gay is solely a social construct that people choose to do to be hip and popular and that really, all gay people are actually straight. deadmosquito directly rebutted that assertion. dont use my aggressive tone as a cheap ploy to cop out on your beliefs. put your money where your mouth is big shot.
i added the christian becos i assumed your disgusted tone towards homosexuality stemmed from your publicly declared beliefs. if i was wrong in either of those assumptions, i apologize. but i know you are christian and i perceived disgust in your response. my bad. this does not change or affect my question though. you quite clearly earlier in the thread stated that being gay is a choice and that gay men actually want to have sex with women and only pretend to be gay for social reasons. now you claim you said no such thing. bullshit.
so given your earlier statements, and deadmosquito's testimonial, what do you ahve to say? do you admit you were talking out your ass earlier? or do you claim that deadmosquito is a liar and actually wants to have sex with women and is only pretending to be gay to be popular, as you asserted earlier? your belief and his story completely contradict each other. so either your belief is wrong, or he's faking. which is it?
i'm sorry, i've answered ALL your posts before, but until you answer my question you'll not get your answer to your latest. enjoy your meal. peace!
Actually, you’ve barely answered any questions anyone has asked you… for instance I asked/or talked about the same “translation” like question on page 26 where I asked about Humans having a hand in writing the Bible and their flaws possibly “tainting” the true word… you responded with scripture. I asked again on page 32 regarding the human factor; more scriptures, or complete avoidance of it altogether from you. Once again on page 34 I again asked about translation errors, possible spelling errors, or humans just straight out leaving parts out, your response just stated that ALL people in isreal who transcribed the word of God did it responsibly (which is your way of saying they did it 100% correct and the way it should be). Furthermore, Ahnimus has brought the point up several times, and I think someone else too, even showing examples of translation differences from Hebrew to King James etc. and you just either flat out ignore them or say “Gods word is perfect, [insert scripture here].
You’ve never come out and actually addressed what we are stating and asking. Hebrew to English (King James) has differences, so again, my question on page 36 still stands, waiting to be acknowledged and not dodged or ignored.
you didn't really respond to what ahnimus said, i'm interested in what kind of answer you will give (although I have a distinct feeling it will involve the words "Bible", "God", "perfect")
The "perfect" word of God was written in Hebrew, thats how Mark, Luke, etc. wrote it because thats what they spoke? correct? I can also assume you are using the King James Bible...(do you read/speak Hebrew?) so there is a difference between the two... again, if the Hebrew was the perfect word, and the James version is translated differently, then the word you use (James version) isn't perfect like you claim it is. Then if you claim the James version IS Truth, then you are saying the Hebrew version is wrong... either way I see a dilemma for you... try to just focus on answering here Mr. PJammin'... no scriptures please, for those of us that can't fathom it... please humor me and "dumb it down" for me so I can grasp it...
I’m still going to wait to try to put down what I believe, not to keep delaying but you have the tendency in the past almost 40 pages to see something else in a post and respond to that and use it as a vehicle to dodge answering the meat and potatoes issue. So I fear if I’d put in this post what I believe, you’d completely ignore the top half of this post and move on to responding to the bottom half and continue to leave the statement/questions at the top of the post lonely and ignored.
I think you went offline because you said you had other things to do. Within the next hour or so I am planning on leaving and being out for the night, so maybe I'll wait to post my views until you and I are both around for an extended portion of time. To tide you over until then, I'm technically not sure what i believe in yet... meaning that i have not chosen a hardcore, rigid view liek yours PJammin'. As I age, experience things, obtain more knowledge my views and "beliefs" will start to alter... i agree with alot of things soulsinging (i think) says and what Ahnimus says (regarding evolution type things and errors in the scripture). I am however, crossing things off that I DONT believe... so eventually I will narrow it down to a hard-fast "belief system" (or lack there of). I'm willing to admit I may be wrong in what I believe right now, and thats when I will refine what I believe and change (as i experience things). Your belief doesn't allow for change or allow you to even attempt to admit you are wrong.
There is one thing for certain at this very moment... Tonight I will be "worshiping" a nice tall Guinness draught
Brilliant
The Sentence Below Is True
The Sentence Above Is False
Thanks that clarifies things, biologically there is no way a virgin human can give birth to a boy. So it's another transcription error, when faced with doubt, they took the most radical translation they could.
we've been down this road before Ahnimus. I agree with you entirely that it is impossible for a virgin to conceive in the world we live in. But I also believe that God is in control and can perform miracles, which by definition, goes against scientific principles. I gave the rationale for why the word was chosen, i'm not telling you to believe it...i'm trying to give you information and insight into why things were chosen, but as usual, if it doesn't fit your preconceived notion you write it off b/c you know better than anyone. Have a good one.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
we've been down this road before Ahnimus. I agree with you entirely that it is impossible for a virgin to conceive in the world we live in. But I also believe that God is in control and can perform miracles, which by definition, goes against scientific principles. I gave the rationale for why the word was chosen, i'm not telling you to believe it...i'm trying to give you information and insight into why things were chosen, but as usual, if it doesn't fit your preconceived notion you write it off b/c you know better than anyone. Have a good one.
Oh yeah right.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Know why? Because hell doesn't discriminate, hell does not require worship, thanks or praise. Hell requires nothing of me.
If I think of this God figure and all it's demands and rules and that if I do not follow them I will spend eternity burning in hell, that sounds like Satan to me.
The description of Satan is barely different than the description of God. The Bible says that Satan is the master of deception, perhaps it's referring to it's self. "Obey me or serve in hell for eternity" deception? Could the Biblical God be Satan?
have you read dante's inferno? according to him there are levels of hell dependent on the sin committed. what i find interesting is that according to dante a deceiver will find himself on a lower level of hell than a murderer. and it's not fire and brimstone at the very core, but frozen.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
everyone can do with their body whatever they like just dont bother to others; Hagamos el amor no la guerra; if someone is gay just respect him, he is just part of mankind
its not a bad time to be me; something made me realise it was time to get away from there or i was going to be just another loser!
just a few pages ago you asserted that being gay is solely a social construct that people choose to do to be hip and popular and that really, all gay people are actually straight. deadmosquito directly rebutted that assertion. dont use my aggressive tone as a cheap ploy to cop out on your beliefs. put your money where your mouth is big shot.
i added the christian becos i assumed your disgusted tone towards homosexuality stemmed from your publicly declared beliefs. if i was wrong in either of those assumptions, i apologize. but i know you are christian and i perceived disgust in your response. my bad. this does not change or affect my question though. you quite clearly earlier in the thread stated that being gay is a choice and that gay men actually want to have sex with women and only pretend to be gay for social reasons. now you claim you said no such thing. bullshit.
so given your earlier statements, and deadmosquito's testimonial, what do you ahve to say? do you admit you were talking out your ass earlier? or do you claim that deadmosquito is a liar and actually wants to have sex with women and is only pretending to be gay to be popular, as you asserted earlier? your belief and his story completely contradict each other. so either your belief is wrong, or he's faking. which is it?
Once again, you put words in my metaphorical mouth. i stated a belief that "gay" is more than anything else a social construct. i also stated that the severe social stigma and degradation argument is no longer relevant. When did i recant any of that? i didn't. When did i EVER imply disgust at homosexuality? i havn't even hinted at it. i made it quite clear even in the earlier post you reference, that i don't judge, mock, or hate. i'm pretty impartial to it. deadmosquito can put his... um... proboscis... whereever he wants. i'm cool with it. i can, and have, shared beers and laffs with professed gay folks and think nothing of it. How about you, souls? Would you be up to having a pint and perhaps a game of foosball with a Christian? Are you a pot, a kettle, or something altogether different? i havn't recanted anything. Nothing i've said has been in hate, disgust or judgement, and nothing i've said here contradicts. As far as your last sentence, i don't know. Maybe i'm wrong. i'm perfectly at peace with that possibility. Maybe i'm not. Either way, i'm fine.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Once again, you put words in my metaphorical mouth. i stated a belief that "gay" is more than anything else a social construct. i also stated that the severe social stigma and degradation argument is no longer relevant. When did i recant any of that? i didn't. When did i EVER imply disgust at homosexuality? i havn't even hinted at it. i made it quite clear even in the earlier post you reference, that i don't judge, mock, or hate. i'm pretty impartial to it. deadmosquito can put his... um... proboscis... whereever he wants. i'm cool with it. i can, and have, shared beers and laffs with professed gay folks and think nothing of it. How about you, souls? Would you be up to having a pint and perhaps a game of foosball with a Christian? Are you a pot, a kettle, or something altogether different? i havn't recanted anything.
you know i've been on your side in religious debates before. i may not be christian, but i will defend to the death your right to be one. i also think it is an utterly reasonable belief. furthermore, being an american most of my friends and family are christian and i have no trouble with them. you came on pretty quick dismissing the idea that people were born gay and claimed it was only a social thing and people did it to be popular. it sounded like it was disgust. like i said, if i was wrong, i apologize.
Nothing i've said has been in hate, disgust or judgement, and nothing i've said here contradicts. As far as your last sentence, i don't know. Maybe i'm wrong. i'm perfectly at peace with that possibility. Maybe i'm not. Either way, i'm fine.
let's do a simple game:
you say- nobody is born gay, they would all choose sex with a beautiful woman in a heartbeat
he says- i was born gay, i tried very hard to like women and simply could not
there is absolutely no way those can BOTH be true. they explicitly contradict each other. so... you are saying one of two things, and id like to know which one, without your wishy-washy maybes. you're so staunch in your christian beliefs... take a stand buddy. is it:
1) he is a liar and didn't try to be straight, he just pretends to be gay cos it's popular and he really wants to sleep with women and you know what gay people think better than a gay man himself does.
or
2) you actually don't know shit about why people are gay and only pretend to becos your beliefs would have a harder time condemning people for behaviors they were born with and cannot control.
don't we care about our own children being close to us? i personally worship because i'm grateful for the gift of life and the other gifts He's given me. i also want to add, God doesn't really need us, but we need Him. He can destroy the whole human race in a moment, but He's longsuffering.
There's nothing I care about more than my kids being close to me. I would be devastated if they weren't. They are by far the most important thing in the world to me. I am very happy that they love and respect me. But if they didn't, I would have to live with that ... there is NO WAY I could ever cause any kind of harm to come to them. My love for them is unconditional. God's love for us clearly is not.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Once again, you put words in my metaphorical mouth. i stated a belief that "gay" is more than anything else a social construct.
what do you mean by social construct? who would choose to be gay if there was an alternative? one can not help who they are attracted to. one can ignore it. but then that would be a denial of self.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you say- nobody is born gay, they would all choose sex with a beautiful woman in a heartbeat
he says- i was born gay, i tried very hard to like women and simply could not
there is absolutely no way those can BOTH be true. they explicitly contradict each other. so... you are saying one of two things, and id like to know which one, without your wishy-washy maybes. you're so staunch in your christian beliefs... take a stand buddy. is it:
1) he is a liar and didn't try to be straight, he just pretends to be gay cos it's popular and he really wants to sleep with women and you know what gay people think better than a gay man himself does.
or
2) you actually don't know shit about why people are gay and only pretend to becos your beliefs would have a harder time condemning people for behaviors they were born with and cannot control.
You're right! They both cannot be true. Maybe i'm wrong. Maybe i'm not. i never claimed my thoughts were anymore than just that! i never said what i did as statement of fact. Only opinion!
You mistake me for Ahnimus, i think.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Comments
I don't picket, I don't protest. I just live my life and mind my own business. You people sound like you have so little to do, that you go around looking for arguments. If God says doing something is going to send my soul to hell, then I'm going to do my best not to do it. Maybe you should stop and think about that. Do you actually want to go to hell? Am I wrong for not wanting people to go to hell? I don't go to church, I don't go door-to-door. I don't even mention my beliefs unless somebody directly asks me, or I need to explain myself on something.
This isn't about me hating, it's the opposite. I don't want to see people go to hell. I know without a doubt it exists, I know without a doubt Satan's greatest achievement is making people believe he doesn't exist.
A HUGE problem I see all of these so-called Christians. They've made people bitter against Christians, which stinks for people who actually are real Christians, because they get thrown into the same lump. My guide for life is what the Bible says, and if some of you believe it's an outdated story book written my man, then fine. But I warn you, do NOT speak against it. It's not me you're going to have to answer to, it's God.
If it came down to heaven or hell, I'd pick hell.
Know why? Because hell doesn't discriminate, hell does not require worship, thanks or praise. Hell requires nothing of me.
If I think of this God figure and all it's demands and rules and that if I do not follow them I will spend eternity burning in hell, that sounds like Satan to me.
The description of Satan is barely different than the description of God. The Bible says that Satan is the master of deception, perhaps it's referring to it's self. "Obey me or serve in hell for eternity" deception? Could the Biblical God be Satan?
1 Corinth 6:9-10
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, no effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind......shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Another:
Romans 1:27-
"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
that's a bit of a different question though. re you a lawyer?
those were both letters of apostles, not the word of jesus. again, men deciding what stays and what goes based on their agenda.
No. I'm questioning the goodness of God and it would seem that God is not forgiving.
Luke 6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful
Merciful unless you don't do what he says, then he forces the worst possible punishment on you, eternity in agonizing pain. That doesn't make any sense. Why? Just to feel special that people worship him.
Disillusioned is good.
Is that what i am? A "being gay is a choice Christian"? First of all despite all of your foolish stereotyping, i don't "mock", "fear" or "loathe" those who practice homosexuality. in absolutely no way do i "hate fags". i couldn't care less (thanks Dunk
As far as his post, i say "cool runnings". i'm sincerely glad that he has found peace and i wish him joy and happiness in all his current and future endeavors. Thats pretty much it. He's right. i'm not gay so how do i know. i've never claimed to "know" anything in regards to this.
Why did God in all his Mercy only save Jews to begin with? Why did God choose a certain people?
Could it be that all the people that made up the story were Jews?
don't get ticked off at you? don't be such a wimp. i don't think Christ ever said, "don't get ticked off at me." stick to your beliefs and live with the attacks.
who cares what other Christians do. deal with the reality of life.
However, these people rejected Christ, and so God rejected them and turned to the Gentiles. A physical Jew is now just a Gentile, all people are the same, and those that keep God's word are his people.
it is about you hating. you said so yourself.
as a recovering alcoholic, yes, those things can be overcome. my point is, why bother? if YOU think being gay is wrong, fine, dont be gay. but i don't see why that means you feel compelled to lecture people or mock them becos you think they are going to hell. im glad you are not one of those people who does. if someone is gay and it bothers them, they can come to you for advice on changing if they want. but browbeating them into it is sick. alcoholics change becos the alcohol ruins their lives... jail, unable to perform jobs, abusing friends and loved ones. homosexuality causes none of these problems, the problems it causes is abuse from the christians you describe at the end. the evil of homosexuality is in the eye of the beholder, whereas the evil of alcoholism takes its toll on the lives of others and society in general. your personal belief is one thing and you are entitled to it, but such personal beliefs have no business regulating the private conduct of others. nor should it entitle anyone to mock, abuse, or insult other people as human beings.
but taking this back to the original question, religion is of another stripe. it sounds like you are saying homosexuality is an affliction like alcoholism. do you mock alcoholics for their illness or do you show them compassion? they are sick people and i would think your views on homosexuality would spark similar compassion.
religion is different. it is a set of beliefs, but beliefs that are chosen. you choose to be christian instead of muslim, or democract instead of republican. thus poking fun at those is ok. yes, some take it too far and move into abuse and hatred, but that's something you just have to live with. for every atheist going too far in his ridicule of christianity, a christian is going too far in his ridicule of heathens. there's just too many assholes in this world
Cool, I won't repent then.
God is omniscient and new before they would reject Christ, so why would he need to change his word?
just a few pages ago you asserted that being gay is solely a social construct that people choose to do to be hip and popular and that really, all gay people are actually straight. deadmosquito directly rebutted that assertion. dont use my aggressive tone as a cheap ploy to cop out on your beliefs. put your money where your mouth is big shot.
i added the christian becos i assumed your disgusted tone towards homosexuality stemmed from your publicly declared beliefs. if i was wrong in either of those assumptions, i apologize. but i know you are christian and i perceived disgust in your response. my bad. this does not change or affect my question though. you quite clearly earlier in the thread stated that being gay is a choice and that gay men actually want to have sex with women and only pretend to be gay for social reasons. now you claim you said no such thing. bullshit.
so given your earlier statements, and deadmosquito's testimonial, what do you ahve to say? do you admit you were talking out your ass earlier? or do you claim that deadmosquito is a liar and actually wants to have sex with women and is only pretending to be gay to be popular, as you asserted earlier? your belief and his story completely contradict each other. so either your belief is wrong, or he's faking. which is it?
Actually, you’ve barely answered any questions anyone has asked you… for instance I asked/or talked about the same “translation” like question on page 26 where I asked about Humans having a hand in writing the Bible and their flaws possibly “tainting” the true word… you responded with scripture. I asked again on page 32 regarding the human factor; more scriptures, or complete avoidance of it altogether from you. Once again on page 34 I again asked about translation errors, possible spelling errors, or humans just straight out leaving parts out, your response just stated that ALL people in isreal who transcribed the word of God did it responsibly (which is your way of saying they did it 100% correct and the way it should be). Furthermore, Ahnimus has brought the point up several times, and I think someone else too, even showing examples of translation differences from Hebrew to King James etc. and you just either flat out ignore them or say “Gods word is perfect, [insert scripture here].
You’ve never come out and actually addressed what we are stating and asking. Hebrew to English (King James) has differences, so again, my question on page 36 still stands, waiting to be acknowledged and not dodged or ignored.
I’m still going to wait to try to put down what I believe, not to keep delaying but you have the tendency in the past almost 40 pages to see something else in a post and respond to that and use it as a vehicle to dodge answering the meat and potatoes issue. So I fear if I’d put in this post what I believe, you’d completely ignore the top half of this post and move on to responding to the bottom half and continue to leave the statement/questions at the top of the post lonely and ignored.
I think you went offline because you said you had other things to do. Within the next hour or so I am planning on leaving and being out for the night, so maybe I'll wait to post my views until you and I are both around for an extended portion of time. To tide you over until then, I'm technically not sure what i believe in yet... meaning that i have not chosen a hardcore, rigid view liek yours PJammin'. As I age, experience things, obtain more knowledge my views and "beliefs" will start to alter... i agree with alot of things soulsinging (i think) says and what Ahnimus says (regarding evolution type things and errors in the scripture). I am however, crossing things off that I DONT believe... so eventually I will narrow it down to a hard-fast "belief system" (or lack there of). I'm willing to admit I may be wrong in what I believe right now, and thats when I will refine what I believe and change (as i experience things). Your belief doesn't allow for change or allow you to even attempt to admit you are wrong.
There is one thing for certain at this very moment... Tonight I will be "worshiping" a nice tall Guinness draught
Brilliant
The Sentence Above Is False
we've been down this road before Ahnimus. I agree with you entirely that it is impossible for a virgin to conceive in the world we live in. But I also believe that God is in control and can perform miracles, which by definition, goes against scientific principles. I gave the rationale for why the word was chosen, i'm not telling you to believe it...i'm trying to give you information and insight into why things were chosen, but as usual, if it doesn't fit your preconceived notion you write it off b/c you know better than anyone. Have a good one.
Oh yeah right.
have you read dante's inferno? according to him there are levels of hell dependent on the sin committed. what i find interesting is that according to dante a deceiver will find himself on a lower level of hell than a murderer. and it's not fire and brimstone at the very core, but frozen.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Once again, you put words in my metaphorical mouth. i stated a belief that "gay" is more than anything else a social construct. i also stated that the severe social stigma and degradation argument is no longer relevant. When did i recant any of that? i didn't. When did i EVER imply disgust at homosexuality? i havn't even hinted at it. i made it quite clear even in the earlier post you reference, that i don't judge, mock, or hate. i'm pretty impartial to it. deadmosquito can put his... um... proboscis... whereever he wants. i'm cool with it. i can, and have, shared beers and laffs with professed gay folks and think nothing of it. How about you, souls? Would you be up to having a pint and perhaps a game of foosball with a Christian? Are you a pot, a kettle, or something altogether different? i havn't recanted anything. Nothing i've said has been in hate, disgust or judgement, and nothing i've said here contradicts. As far as your last sentence, i don't know. Maybe i'm wrong. i'm perfectly at peace with that possibility. Maybe i'm not. Either way, i'm fine.
you know i've been on your side in religious debates before. i may not be christian, but i will defend to the death your right to be one. i also think it is an utterly reasonable belief. furthermore, being an american most of my friends and family are christian and i have no trouble with them. you came on pretty quick dismissing the idea that people were born gay and claimed it was only a social thing and people did it to be popular. it sounded like it was disgust. like i said, if i was wrong, i apologize.
let's do a simple game:
you say- nobody is born gay, they would all choose sex with a beautiful woman in a heartbeat
he says- i was born gay, i tried very hard to like women and simply could not
there is absolutely no way those can BOTH be true. they explicitly contradict each other. so... you are saying one of two things, and id like to know which one, without your wishy-washy maybes. you're so staunch in your christian beliefs... take a stand buddy. is it:
1) he is a liar and didn't try to be straight, he just pretends to be gay cos it's popular and he really wants to sleep with women and you know what gay people think better than a gay man himself does.
or
2) you actually don't know shit about why people are gay and only pretend to becos your beliefs would have a harder time condemning people for behaviors they were born with and cannot control.
what do you mean by social construct? who would choose to be gay if there was an alternative? one can not help who they are attracted to. one can ignore it. but then that would be a denial of self.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You're right! They both cannot be true. Maybe i'm wrong. Maybe i'm not. i never claimed my thoughts were anymore than just that! i never said what i did as statement of fact. Only opinion!
You mistake me for Ahnimus, i think.