World would be worse off without faith...

1…1415171920…27

Comments

  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    onelongsong wrote:
    it made me realize that nothing can change or interfere with my happiness. today is a wonderful day to die. if the stock market crashes; so what? if i lose my legs to an accident; no worries; i still have myself; my being. i want for nothing. i would like many things but i actually want for nothing.
    maybe i had an epiphany or something. i look back several years and see the bad things that have happened to be yet it never changed me. once again i'm trying to explain something words cannot explain.
    That's awesome, friend. I can feel the energy.

    I also know what you are saying about our true being that is untouchable. It's like a body of water. All kinds of things can cause anything from a ripple on the surface, to waves. And yet, deep within, their is calm and peace untouched by the movement on the surface. :) I hear you, and I agree with you 100%.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    mood is temporary. you can wake up in a great mood and walk outside to see you have a flat tire. your mood will change but it shouldn't change your inner happiness.

    Ok, but we are still talking about the production of dopamine, seratonin, norepinephrine, vasopressin, oxytocin and so on in the brain.

    If you have fairly decent levels of these chemicals, then you are happy. This can be temporarily impeded by bad events, but the overal chemical system still functions normally. Chronic depression is when one or more of these parts of the system breaks down.

    You can talk in terms of "mood" and "happiness" all you want and try to quantify it as some spiritual phenomena, but the facts remain, it's a biochemical thing.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hippiemom wrote:
    And I'm sure you know that for many people, SSRIs do nothing at all. Happiness involves chemistry, but there's more to it than that. There is no simple formula.

    Right, something else might be broken. Seratonin is not the only chemical involved in happiness. The formula is not simple, but stating that it's metaphysical or spiritual is completely pointless, irrelevant, it gets us no closer to understanding it.

    Some people can not choose to be happy as onelongsong preaches.

    Many criminal's brains have damaged prefrontal cortexes which results in them not being happy, not being compassionate and having violent tendencies. Check the facts.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Ok, but we are still talking about the production of dopamine, seratonin, norepinephrine, vasopressin, oxytocin and so on in the brain.

    If you have fairly decent levels of these chemicals, then you are happy. This can be temporarily impeded by bad events, but the overal chemical system still functions normally. Chronic depression is when one or more of these parts of the system breaks down.

    You can talk in terms of "mood" and "happiness" all you want and try to quantify it as some spiritual phenomena, but the facts remain, it's a biochemical thing.
    God! life would be so boring if it was all based on psychology
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    God! life would be so boring if it was all based on psychology

    I agree completely!! :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    onelongsong wrote:
    moods change. we are not talking about the same thing. happiness has nothing to do with moods.

    i agree. there have been times in my life when i knew i was happy. but amongst that feeling came one that could have ended my life. i don't understand why it shrouds me, but i choose to live with it and work through it. even today i feel contented and have a sense of happiness but always there is something pulling me.


    the ancient celts believed the soul resided in the head. that is why they stuck the heads of their dead enemies on a pike. it was a reverential action.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Probably because you are in a different field of research and know absolutely nothing about the topic.

    i've been looking for a link but i've got 4 things happening at once here. no two brains think alike. no two brains function alike. one man may find happiness in alcohol; this i agree is synthetic. but the lecture you presented is incomplete. why weren't those with tbi included? he did not take into account the variables. he concludes indirectly that a person without a frontal lobe cannot be or experience happiness. it seems you find something and grab hold of it without opening your mind to other ideas. i don't mean this directed at you personally because it's human nature. it's what most of us do. but we must remember there is so much unexplored and so much unknown that we cannot make decisions until all the facts are known; and all the facts will never be known.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Right, something else might be broken. Seratonin is not the only chemical involved in happiness. The formula is not simple, but stating that it's metaphysical or spiritual is completely pointless, irrelevant, it gets us no closer to understanding it.
    I do not believe in the metaphysical. That's not to say that I disagree with angelica or onelongsong though ... I actually agree with most of what they're saying, although I would probably explain it in a somewhat different way. I think that there are forces in the universe that we do not understand. They are not supernatural in any way, they're as real as light and sound and rocks and trees, we just haven't figured them all out yet. I doubt we'll ever find the precise happiness formula, because I don't think it's a matter of chemistry alone.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Some people can not choose to be happy as onelongsong preaches.
    I certainly agree with this 100%.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Many criminal's brains have damaged prefrontal cortexes which results in them not being happy, not being compassionate and having violent tendencies. Check the facts.
    I know you've heard this before, but it bears repeating ... you'd do well to treat people less condescendingly.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    catefrances wrote:
    the ancient celts believed the soul resided in the head. that is why they stuck the heads of their dead enemies on a pike. it was a reverential action.

    Well that could explain a lot! Guess I'm feeling reverential today!
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    i've been looking for a link but i've got 4 things happening at once here. no two brains think alike. no two brains function alike. one man may find happiness in alcohol; this i agree is synthetic. but the lecture you presented is incomplete. why weren't those with tbi included? he did not take into account the variables. he concludes indirectly that a person without a frontal lobe cannot be or experience happiness. it seems you find something and grab hold of it without opening your mind to other ideas. i don't mean this directed at you personally because it's human nature. it's what most of us do. but we must remember there is so much unexplored and so much unknown that we cannot make decisions until all the facts are known; and all the facts will never be known.

    Yea ok, but your theories are based on non-facts, speculation. So how is that any better?

    My working theory is based on scientific research.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    catefrances wrote:
    i agree. there have been times in my life when i knew i was happy. but amongst that feeling came one that could have ended my life. i don't understand why it shrouds me, but i choose to live with it and work through it. even today i feel contented and have a sense of happiness but always there is something pulling me.


    the ancient celts believed the soul resided in the head. that is why they stuck the heads of their dead enemies on a pike. it was a reverential action.

    and you're right. i don't have a right front lobe. yet i function and live a prosperous and happy life. things can and will happen that alter my mood but i've reached a place where it won't shake my happiness. true happiness has nothing to do with feelings. i wrongfully stated that happiness is a feeling but happiness transends feelings.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yea ok, but your theories are based on non-facts, speculation. So how is that any better?

    My working theory is based on scientific research.

    INCOMPLETE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    and you're right. i don't have a right front lobe. yet i function and live a prosperous and happy life. things can and will happen that alter my mood but i've reached a place where it won't shake my happiness. true happiness has nothing to do with feelings. i wrongfully stated that happiness is a feeling but happiness transends feelings.

    The left prefrontal cortex is primarily responsible for happiness. Not the right.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    INCOMPLETE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.

    Ok, so COMPLETE SPECULATION is better than INCOMPLETE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH. Which you claim is only incomplete because Gilbert didn't call you.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanie wrote:
    Well that could explain a lot! Guess I'm feeling reverential today!

    i hear you girl. my head is everything to me. it must be fed and nurtured constantly.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Ok, so COMPLETE SPECULATION is better than INCOMPLETE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH. Which you claim is only incomplete because Gilbert didn't call you.

    no; i;m not saying that at all. i'm saying more research must be done. and it must include the variables. you cannot make a statement like that if it doesn't apply to all brains. at best he can claim that in a controlled group.............................................
  • born to play drums
    born to play drums Posts: 11
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    I appreciate your concern. :) Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

    I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

    Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.
    I think that even without any religion people would still have there own moral values.If the bible was just fake and written by a series of very clever writers(and I'm not saying that I think it is) then it would mean that just ordinary people have made these moral values.I'm agnostic so dont really know where I stand on religion.But I do believe that some greater power is out there.What form that actually takes though.I have no idea!!!
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    catefrances wrote:
    i hear you girl. my head is everything to me. it must be fed and nurtured constantly.

    maybe it's your soul that needs the nuturing.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Ok, so I am my soul and when I die my soul dies, then how can you have it? I don't understand. That defies the traditional definition of a soul that survives in a metaphysical plane after death.

    I don't think the sum total of you is your soul. I think you are many things, intellect, reasoning, function, physicality. But your uniqueness the combination of all the random events along with your dna and the things passed onto you from generations before, and the choices that you make in response to events, and a whole bunch of other stuff, (and don't get your nickers in a twist about my use of non technical terms please. :p This is what I BELIEVE.) all combine to make something else inside you that to my mind has not been unequivocally explained by science, psychology or religion.

    And yes my belief in the soul dying with the body does defy the traditional definition. But I do swing both ways! ;)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    I don't think the sum total of you is your soul. I think you are many things, intellect, reasoning, function, physicality. But your uniqueness the combination of all the random events along with your dna and the things passed onto you from generations before, and the choices that you make in response to events, and a whole bunch of other stuff, (and don't get your nickers in a twist about my use of non technical terms please. :p This is what I BELIEVE.) all combine to make something else inside you that to my mind has not been unequivocally explained by science, psychology or religion.

    And yes my belief in the soul dying with the body does defy the traditional definition. But I do swing both ways! ;)

    I don't understand how an incomplete scientific understanding translates into a spiritual, metaphysical, thing. That's just a speculative leap into the complete unkown. Yet, that seems to be the general census here and around the world. The age-old line of thought that needs to be broken to make progress.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

Categories