why do you believe in God or...

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  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    catefrances wrote:
    that's exactly what i'm talking about. he rejected cain's offering and then asked him what was wrong. he had to have known cain was down cause He rejected him whilst accepting abel's offering.

    and we can't know what God knew or didn't know cause it doesn't say a thing about it in genesis. so what we have is a case of having to have faith in God that He knew that cain's heart was black. i mean in all honesty, cain's offering looked and sounded legit to me every single time i've read it. i can't project what ifs and he must've knowns into God's intentions cause hey i'm human. one minute eve has cain, then she has abel, then the boys are older and then abel's dead. so there's not a lot of scope there to work with, you know? :)
    of cours God knew... so he asked him a rhetorical question. "what are you all upset about dude? how do you expect me to accept an ungenuine offering like yours?"

    it's common sense. it's not this big theological debate.

    edit: the bible does say God knew what was in his heart... it says so when it says, "and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door." door, meaning heart.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    of cours God knew... so he asked him a rhetorical question. "what are you all upset about dude? how do you expect me to accept an ungenuine offering like yours?"

    it's common sense. it's not this big theological debate.

    edit: the bible does say God knew what was in his heart... it says so when it says, "and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door." door, meaning heart.

    well its hardly common sense otherwise i'd have gotten it right off the bat. i was thinking that he rejected cain's offering cause he was a tiller of the soil and with adam being made from dirt, and that whole being booted out of eden episode, that somehow the sins of the father were being visited upon cain, with God's rebuff of his offering. and abel was a shepherd so..... i'm perhaps taking big leaps here, but thats just the way my brain works. i'm trying to be logical in a oftentimes illogical realm. :)
    i'm having a little trouble with genesis 4:7. this stuff is worse(meaning my comprehension of it) than shakepeare. i'm almost there but i need to think about it more.
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  • freedomboy
    freedomboy Posts: 129
    I feel sorry for you, and I will pray long and hard for all of you who have said you don't believe in your lord. I suppose I understand why so many of you are such liberal elitists now, as you are blinded by Satan's trickery. He has blinded you with the half truths of science, and has all of these "good" people telling you that we should accept homosexuality... what is next, multiple partners... beastiality... sex with children??? You see? Where do you limit your sins??? Without God, you have no moral basis to live your life... you can go and do whatever you want because you have nobody to hold you accountable.

    Well, I am sorry to say that I won't see many of you when I receive my crowns in heaven. I just hope that God will forgive you eventually, by limiting his definition of eternity... and that you won't have to burn in hell with Satan and all of those killers, rapists, and terrorists who deserve to burn forever.

    Jesus once said, "No man cometh unto the father but by me."

    In Love,

    brokendave
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    brokendave wrote:
    I feel sorry for you, and I will pray long and hard for all of you who have said you don't believe in your lord. I suppose I understand why so many of you are such liberal elitists now, as you are blinded by Satan's trickery. He has blinded you with the half truths of science, and has all of these "good" people telling you that we should accept homosexuality... what is next, multiple partners... beastiality... sex with children??? You see? Where do you limit your sins??? Without God, you have no moral basis to live your life... you can go and do whatever you want because you have nobody to hold you accountable.

    Well, I am sorry to say that I won't see many of you when I receive my crowns in heaven. I just hope that God will forgive you eventually, by limiting his definition of eternity... and that you won't have to burn in hell with Satan and all of those killers, rapists, and terrorists who deserve to burn forever.

    Jesus once said, "No man cometh unto the father but by me."

    In Love,

    brokendave

    Yeah, good luck with that dave. I'm happy for you. But I can sleep at night being an "unbeliever" just fine thanks. I guess none of us will know till we're dead anyway and even then probably won't know anything so whatever floats your boat. But I live a happy life not worrying too much about what's gonna happen when I die. I'll be dead. End of story. You seem to have all this fire and brimstone shit to worry about. Must make for difficult sleep.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    brokendave wrote:
    I feel sorry for you, and I will pray long and hard for all of you who have said you don't believe in your lord. I suppose I understand why so many of you are such liberal elitists now, as you are blinded by Satan's trickery. He has blinded you with the half truths of science, and has all of these "good" people telling you that we should accept homosexuality... what is next, multiple partners... beastiality... sex with children??? You see? Where do you limit your sins??? Without God, you have no moral basis to live your life... you can go and do whatever you want because you have nobody to hold you accountable.

    Well, I am sorry to say that I won't see many of you when I receive my crowns in heaven. I just hope that God will forgive you eventually, by limiting his definition of eternity... and that you won't have to burn in hell with Satan and all of those killers, rapists, and terrorists who deserve to burn forever.

    Jesus once said, "No man cometh unto the father but by me."

    In Love,

    brokendave

    i'm certain that what you deem a sin is different to what i deem a sin. of course being an atheist the concept of sins is lost on me. but the only person i am accountable to for my actions is myself. and i have a very high standard to uphold.

    but you know what amuses me is that you already assume you are going to heaven. sounds like the sin of pride to me. good luck with that. :D
    hear my name
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  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    brokendave wrote:
    I feel sorry for you, and I will pray long and hard for all of you who have said you don't believe in your lord. I suppose I understand why so many of you are such liberal elitists now, as you are blinded by Satan's trickery. He has blinded you with the half truths of science, and has all of these "good" people telling you that we should accept homosexuality... what is next, multiple partners... beastiality... sex with children??? You see? Where do you limit your sins??? Without God, you have no moral basis to live your life... you can go and do whatever you want because you have nobody to hold you accountable.

    "Compassion is the basis of morality."

    A. Schopenhauer
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • freedomboy
    freedomboy Posts: 129
    Jeanie wrote:
    Yeah, good luck with that dave. I'm happy for you. But I can sleep at night being an "unbeliever" just fine thanks. I guess none of us will know till we're dead anyway and even then probably won't know anything so whatever floats your boat. But I live a happy life not worrying too much about what's gonna happen when I die. I'll be dead. End of story. You seem to have all this fire and brimstone shit to worry about. Must make for difficult sleep.

    I find it very unfortunate that I gave a great deal of bait to all of the atheists to dig into the farce of Christianity here, and nobody took it. I denounce the existence of ANY god of ANY kind. Although I can't say with certainty that a deity exists, I will not spend any time trying to guess on such manners.

    We as atheists derive our morals from the same places that Christians do, which is not the Bible, but more of an evolution of a social conscience. For example, if you were to follow the bible as a Christian, you would kill people who deny the word of God. However, you chose not to because you pick and chose what to follow in the bible. You pick and chose these things based on the moral conscience of society.

    For those of you who responded, you gave nothing of intellectual value as a response. You might as well have said nothing at all. Brush up on your social skills people, or this society will never become truly rational.
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    brokendave wrote:
    I find it very unfortunate that I gave a great deal of bait to all of the atheists to dig into the farce of Christianity here, and nobody took it. I denounce the existence of ANY god of ANY kind. Although I can't say with certainty that a deity exists, I will not spend any time trying to guess on such manners.

    We as atheists derive our morals from the same places that Christians do, which is not the Bible, but more of an evolution of a social conscience. For example, if you were to follow the bible as a Christian, you would kill people who deny the word of God. However, you chose not to because you pick and chose what to follow in the bible. You pick and chose these things based on the moral conscience of society.

    For those of you who responded, you gave nothing of intellectual value as a response. You might as well have said nothing at all. Brush up on your social skills people, or this society will never become truly rational.


    ah yes i see it now. the big grinning smiley face. a definite giveaway. :)


    and may i say, my zero intellectual input matched yours word for word. :D
    hear my name
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  • freedomboy
    freedomboy Posts: 129
    catefrances wrote:
    ah yes i see it now. the big grinning smiley face. a definite giveaway. :)


    and may i say, my zero intellectual input matched yours word for word. :D

    Ah, point taken. I suppose I didn't see your comment before I posted? Point well taken. I apologize for my pretense dear catefrances...
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    brokendave wrote:
    Ah, point taken. I suppose I didn't see your comment before I posted? Point well taken. I apologize for my pretense dear catefrances...


    not a problem. see you in atheist hell dave. which i guess may be sunday mass. ;):D


    i'm kidding christians, i'm kidding. :)
    hear my name
    take a good look
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  • 69charger
    69charger Posts: 1,045
    All part of God's wonderful plan...
    3 killed in Mo. church shooting
    By MARCUS KABEL, Associated Press Writer

    A gunman opened fire in the sanctuary of a southwest Missouri church Sunday, killing the pastor and two worshippers and wounding several others, authorities said.

    One of the victims was the Rev. Kernal Rehobson, 44, who led the local congregation of predominantly Micronesian worshippers holding the service at the First Congregational Church, police said.

    Rehobson was shot multiple times and was dead at the scene, Newton County Coroner Mark Bridges said.

    The other two victims were male members of the congregation, whose names were not released, The Joplin Globe reported.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    brokendave wrote:
    if you were to follow the bible as a Christian, you would kill people who deny the word of God.
    i kill people because they don't believe in the word of God?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    brokendave wrote:
    I feel sorry for you, and I will pray long and hard for all of you who have said you don't believe in your lord. I suppose I understand why so many of you are such liberal elitists now, as you are blinded by Satan's trickery. He has blinded you with the half truths of science, and has all of these "good" people telling you that we should accept homosexuality... what is next, multiple partners... beastiality... sex with children??? You see? Where do you limit your sins??? Without God, you have no moral basis to live your life... you can go and do whatever you want because you have nobody to hold you accountable.

    Well, I am sorry to say that I won't see many of you when I receive my crowns in heaven. I just hope that God will forgive you eventually, by limiting his definition of eternity... and that you won't have to burn in hell with Satan and all of those killers, rapists, and terrorists who deserve to burn forever.

    Jesus once said, "No man cometh unto the father but by me."

    In Love,

    brokendave
    if you were a christian indeed... i'd probably be laughing at you for such comments...
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    brokendave wrote:
    I find it very unfortunate that I gave a great deal of bait to all of the atheists to dig into the farce of Christianity here, and nobody took it. I denounce the existence of ANY god of ANY kind. Although I can't say with certainty that a deity exists, I will not spend any time trying to guess on such manners.

    We as atheists derive our morals from the same places that Christians do, which is not the Bible, but more of an evolution of a social conscience. For example, if you were to follow the bible as a Christian, you would kill people who deny the word of God. However, you chose not to because you pick and chose what to follow in the bible. You pick and chose these things based on the moral conscience of society.

    For those of you who responded, you gave nothing of intellectual value as a response. You might as well have said nothing at all. Brush up on your social skills people, or this society will never become truly rational.

    Perhaps you could find other things to do as sport?
    I've got enough on my plate thanks don't need to be toyed with by someone who now claims to hold the same belief as me not to mention a higher lever of social skills. :rolleyes:
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • freedomboy
    freedomboy Posts: 129
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i kill people because they don't believe in the word of God?

    Here are two examples:

    Exodus 22:20
    "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."

    Deuteronomy 13:12-15

    "If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock."
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • freedomboy
    freedomboy Posts: 129
    Jeanie wrote:
    Perhaps you could find other things to do as sport?
    I've got enough on my plate thanks don't need to be toyed with by someone who now claims to hold the same belief as me not to mention a higher lever of social skills. :rolleyes:

    Point taken.

    I suppose I was wrong in my approach, my apologies. I should head my own words here but:

    1. You catch more flys with honey.
    2. The best way to make a point is to frame the conversation. The best way to do that is by asking questions.

    *EDIT*

    and incase of the new / old testament argument:

    Luke 19:27
    "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    brokendave wrote:
    Point taken.

    I suppose I was wrong in my approach, my apologies. I should head my own words here but:

    1. You catch more flys with honey.
    2. The best way to make a point is to frame the conversation. The best way to do that is by asking questions.

    Dave, I've got no problem with people of faith or athiests. It's an individual choice as far as I'm concerned. I cannot make a person believe what I believe and I wouldn't want to anyway. Diversity is a good thing as far as I can see. Having said that I'm not a fan of having things rammed down my throat, that would apply to athiesm as well as religion for me, so yes, you do catch more flies with honey. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • freedomboy
    freedomboy Posts: 129
    Jeanie wrote:
    Dave, I've got no problem with people of faith or athiests. It's an individual choice as far as I'm concerned. I cannot make a person believe what I believe and I wouldn't want to anyway. Diversity is a good thing as far as I can see. Having said that I'm not a fan of having things rammed down my throat, that would apply to athiesm as well as religion for me, so yes, you do catch more flies with honey. :)

    Tru dat. I completely agree. However, when in discussion about faith, i think it is okay to ask questions, and talk about your beliefs... as this thread has done ;-)

    So... Let's get over the power struggle here... hump my leg or do whatever you have to do to feel in control here... and lets talk...

    I agree that diversity is good to an extent. However, limiting the rights of gays is not a "good thing", war is also not a "good thing"... but those two things are justified in the wide diversity of many religions. So there is a certain limit to this...

    To go further, if people want to believe in the tooth fairy, I don't give a shit... until they pass legislation to tax me for the tooth fairies services to the public.
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    brokendave wrote:
    Tru dat. I completely agree. However, when in discussion about faith, i think it is okay to ask questions, and talk about your beliefs... as this thread has done ;-)

    So... Let's get over the power struggle here... hump my leg or do whatever you have to do to feel in control here... and lets talk...

    I agree that diversity is good to an extent. However, limiting the rights of gays is not a "good thing", war is also not a "good thing"... but those two things are justified in the wide diversity of many religions. So there is a certain limit to this...

    To go further, if people want to believe in the tooth fairy, I don't give a shit... until they pass legislation to tax me for the tooth fairies services to the public.

    hehe! :D Well I don't know that I'll be humping your leg, or anybody elses for that matter. :p And as for me "feeling in control" well I pretty much accept that's never gonna happen, so I just muddle along as best I can. :)

    In terms of talking about the thread, then yes I agree that not all religion is a good thing and that limiting rights based on religious beliefs is very bad. And I don't support war. But these ideas are also supported by some athiests.

    It's up to those of us that don't support homophobia or war to make sure that we stand up and be counted in order to stamp out that kind of discrimination and war mongering. And that is really all that we can do. Whether we have faith or are athiests. I think probably your circumstances are different to mine in that you are living in a country where these things are being initiated by your government based on their religious views. That is not so much the case here in Australia. Not saying that it isn't happening but not on the same scale that it appears to be in the US.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    brokendave wrote:
    For those of you who responded, you gave nothing of intellectual value as a response.

    It's hard to give an answer of intellectual value to someone if they actually believe the stuff you wrote.
    You might as well have said nothing at all.

    So... I agree.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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