Iowa court rules same-sex couples can marry

decides2dream · September 2007

OutOfBreath wrote:

Some serious backing is needed to claim something is "proven". Especially concerning purely social matters like this. Show me the stats that depict hetero couple children vs single parent/broken home children that makes this case.

And as for divorces, they may be harmful, but then it's because the family breaks apart, and probably a certain amount of animosity between the parents. A loving, happy married couple is of course better for children than parents constantly fighting. But it doesn't then follow that hetero married couples is the only ones capable of bringing up balanced children, nor that they are inherently better. That just shows that conflicts are bad, and love is good. Love can come in many shapes and preferences. So a loving, caring gay couple would probably be a lot better for kids than an abusive and conflictful hetero marriage for instance.

Anyway, I'm waiting for some statistics to be produced here unanimously backing those claims. I'll be interested as a social scientist to see them.

Peace
Dan

EXACTLY!

funny, i guess it depends what you read b/c i've read, numerous times...that simply having a LOVING/SUPPORTIVE home environment...whether a hetero-intact parent-couple...a single-parent...a same-sex parent-couple.......was the SINGLE most important factor to a well-adjusted child.

honestly, to me, a child raised with homosexual parents, sure, may get some bad hazing at school.....but kids are cruel to other kids for all SORTS of reasons, so not having same-sex parents alone will not 'save' a child from such a fate, kids may haze/harrass them for other things. however, for what a set of parents must go through to adopt a child...especially a gay set of parents...to ME, illustrates their great desire to be parents, that they have the love and the means to provide a wonderul and caring home environment....and that said child would be loved. who wouldn't thrive in such an environment?

there are PLENTY of parents out there...simply parents b/c they can fuck, they fuck someone of the oppositie sex...and they are fertile and don't use birth-control. not b/c they so 'want' children, will be good role models, provide a loving/supportive environment, etc. man, there are SO many parents, who simply should not be parents. so that said, those who DO so want children enough to jump thru the hoops necesaary to adopt...hetero or homosexual...i say kudos to taking unwanted children into their homes giving them a chance at a loving home environment.

btw - while i see a logial link to some degree...but honestly, WHY is a thread about same-sex marriage being given the ok in iowa - which btw kudos to iowa for being forward-thinkers! - being reduced to a convo about having kids? seriously? we're talking marriage here. now while i know for MANY marriage is synonymous with family and having children....that is NOT always the case, and in fact is growing ever more NOT to be the case. sure married couples starting families is the vast majority, but it is more and more 'acceptable' and a viable option for ALL couples hetero and homosexual alike...NOT to have families. to me, this is about homosexuals simply wanting the same LEGAl rights afforded by marriage to a hetero couple. as we all well know there ARE many legal rights afforded by marriager...especially in sickness and in death. i do believe EVERY consenting adult couple, regardless of sexual orientation...should be afforded said rights if they so want to go that route. some heterocouples choose NOT to marry, so why shouldn't homosexual couples be afforded the same choice..to marry, or not, as they see fit...and the rigthst that accompany said choices?

again....kudos to iowa! i look forward to the day when all of 'this' is a non-issue.....when hetero and homo sexual couples afforded the same rights...and all, whether they personally agree/disagree with such lifestyles...at the very least recognize the RIGHTS of others to live their lives as they see fit, and benmefit from the same basic rights/freedoms as every other citizen.

Juberoo · September 2007

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

This simply isn't true.

Any given child's experience of growing up contains far too many variables for a parallel to be drawn between any of the above mentioned issues and "not functioning up to standard". Anything "proving" otherwise is worthless conservative propaganda.

prove it

decides2dream · September 2007

Juberoo wrote:

prove it

why don't YOU provide some supporting data to YOUR claim since you are the one to introduce the idea to be countered in the first place? would seem logical. why should someone back up a counterpoint when the first in the debate didn't even provide any support to their original point in the first place?

just askin'........;)

Brain of J.Lo · September 2007

decides2dream wrote:

why don't YOU provide some supporting data to YOUR claim since you are the one to introduce the idea to be countered in the first place? would seem logical. why should someone back up a counterpoint when the first in the debate didn't even provide any support to their original point in the first place?

just askin'........;)

I agree.

I'd love to view some of the data yielded from the "time and study" you referenced.

If you can provide such information, and from sources other than conservative-leaning web sites or books, I'd be happy to oblige.

Juberoo · September 2007

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

I agree.

I'd love to view some of the data yielded from the "time and study" you referenced.

If you can provide such information, and from sources other than conservative-leaning web sites or books, I'd be happy to oblige.

and will you provide data from sources other than liberal-leaning web sites or books?

Brain of J.Lo · September 2007

Juberoo wrote:

and will you provide data from sources other than liberal-leaning web sites or books?

It's really not worth my time to try to talk some sense into you. I think you're a lost cause. But if you actually provide some unbiased proof that children of homosexual parents are so much worse off than children of heterosexual parents, I'll eat my hat.

Enjoy your research. :rolleyes:

Vedd Hedd · September 2007

Juberoo wrote:

See thats the thing...time and study has already proven that children thrive best in a heterosexual environment. Children need the presence of both father AND mother to grow and become well balanced. This has been discussed adnauseum since single parenthood has become so common. Children from broken homes, or from incomplete homes, or who lack the involvement of one parental sex, do not function up to standard...they flounder and have asignificantly higher incidence of behavioral problems.

You are a complete moron.

SundaySilence · September 2007

From the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Yale University School of Medicine:

"The literature supports the notion that children of lesbian mothers and gay fathers are not more likely to become homosexual and are not measurably different from children raised by heterosexual parents in terms of personality development, psychological development, and gender identity."
http://www.co-obgyn.com/pt/re/coobgyn/abstract.00001703-200506000-00014.htm;jsessionid=Gc5bJQnsYSn86F452DRfHkW5qrr69Vzqp56cnR8z0p3jznh6vryC!-933386751!181195628!8091!-1

From the Division of Adolescent Medicine, Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center, Bronx, NY:
"There are no data to suggest that children who have gay or lesbian parents are different in any aspects of psychological, social, and sexual development from children in heterosexual families."
http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/9/354

From the School of Psychology, Birkbeck College University of London:

"Findings from research suggest that children with lesbian or gay parents are comparable with children with heterosexual parents on key psychosocial developmental outcomes."
http://www.jrnldbp.com/pt/re/jdbp/abstract.00004703-200506000-00012.htm;jsessionid=Gc8cPvQ7dmNWM3JyLTGD1Vj8k28qvLX1sV2gbkJSbnJLgdnc3ZVy!-933386751!181195628!8091!-1

Brain of J.Lo · September 2007

SundaySilence wrote:

From Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Yale University School of Medicine:

"The literature supports the notion that children of lesbian mothers and gay fathers are not more likely to become homosexual and are not measurably different from children raised by heterosexual parents in terms of personality development, psychological development, and gender identity."

http://www.co-obgyn.com/pt/re/coobgyn/abstract.00001703-200506000-00014.htm;jsessionid=Gc5bJQnsYSn86F452DRfHkW5qrr69Vzqp56cnR8z0p3jznh6vryC!-933386751!181195628!8091!-1

From the Division of Adolescent Medicine, Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center, Bronx, NY:
"There are no data to suggest that children who have gay or lesbian parents are different in any aspects of psychological, social, and sexual development from children in heterosexual families."

http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/9/354

Oh, come on. Everyone knows that Yale University School of Medicine and Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center are just liberal propaganda machines.

On a more serious note, good finds.

SundaySilence · September 2007

From the American Psychiatric Association:

"Numerous studies over the last three decades consistently demonstrate that children raised by gay or lesbian parents exhibit the same level of emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as children raised by heterosexual parents."
http://www.psych.org/edu/other_res/lib_archives/archives/200214.pdf

From the American Academy of Pediatrics:

"A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with 1 or 2 gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Children’s optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes."
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;109/2/341?fulltext=homosexuality&searchid=QID_NOT_SET

callen · September 2007

think as soon as we get short sighted folks to realize sexual orientation bears no importance and we see homosexuality as a norm the sooner we'll see the end to the stigma of homosexual parents on their children.

Key is love & support....and neithers affected by sexual orientation....

I'm thinking even if there currently is an affect on children of homosexual parents, its way more harmful to lie to a kid tellng them there's a santa clause, easter bunny and the world was made in 8 days and they'll go to hell if they don't act a certain way.

wolfbear · September 2007

callen wrote:

think as soon as we get short sighted folks to realize sexual orientation bears no importance and we see homosexuality as a norm the sooner we'll see the end to the stigma of homosexual parents on their children.

Key is love & support....and neithers affected by sexual orientation....

I'm thinking even if there currently is an affect on children of homosexual parents, its way more harmful to lie to a kid tellng them there's a santa clause, easter bunny and the world was made in 8 days and they'll go to hell if they don't act a certain way.

gimmesometruth27 · September 2007

SundaySilence wrote:

From the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Yale University School of Medicine:

"The literature supports the notion that children of lesbian mothers and gay fathers are not more likely to become homosexual and are not measurably different from children raised by heterosexual parents in terms of personality development, psychological development, and gender identity."
http://www.co-obgyn.com/pt/re/coobgyn/abstract.00001703-200506000-00014.htm;jsessionid=Gc5bJQnsYSn86F452DRfHkW5qrr69Vzqp56cnR8z0p3jznh6vryC!-933386751!181195628!8091!-1

From the Division of Adolescent Medicine, Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center, Bronx, NY:
"There are no data to suggest that children who have gay or lesbian parents are different in any aspects of psychological, social, and sexual development from children in heterosexual families."
http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/9/354

From the School of Psychology, Birkbeck College University of London:

"Findings from research suggest that children with lesbian or gay parents are comparable with children with heterosexual parents on key psychosocial developmental outcomes."
http://www.jrnldbp.com/pt/re/jdbp/abstract.00004703-200506000-00012.htm;jsessionid=Gc8cPvQ7dmNWM3JyLTGD1Vj8k28qvLX1sV2gbkJSbnJLgdnc3ZVy!-933386751!181195628!8091!-1

i am waiting for some "research" from oral roberts or pat robertson's college to refute these lol...

decides2dream · September 2007

SundaySilence wrote:

From the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Yale University School of Medicine:

"The literature supports the notion that children of lesbian mothers and gay fathers are not more likely to become homosexual and are not measurably different from children raised by heterosexual parents in terms of personality development, psychological development, and gender identity."
http://www.co-obgyn.com/pt/re/coobgyn/abstract.00001703-200506000-00014.htm;jsessionid=Gc5bJQnsYSn86F452DRfHkW5qrr69Vzqp56cnR8z0p3jznh6vryC!-933386751!181195628!8091!-1

From the Division of Adolescent Medicine, Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center, Bronx, NY:
"There are no data to suggest that children who have gay or lesbian parents are different in any aspects of psychological, social, and sexual development from children in heterosexual families."
http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/9/354

From the School of Psychology, Birkbeck College University of London:

"Findings from research suggest that children with lesbian or gay parents are comparable with children with heterosexual parents on key psychosocial developmental outcomes."
http://www.jrnldbp.com/pt/re/jdbp/abstract.00004703-200506000-00012.htm;jsessionid=Gc8cPvQ7dmNWM3JyLTGD1Vj8k28qvLX1sV2gbkJSbnJLgdnc3ZVy!-933386751!181195628!8091!-1

man, i truly *heart* sunday.

time and again...he always comes through, with true science and logic.

thank you.

callen wrote:

think as soon as we get short sighted folks to realize sexual orientation bears no importance and we see homosexuality as a norm the sooner we'll see the end to the stigma of homosexual parents on their children.

Key is love & support....and neithers affected by sexual orientation....

I'm thinking even if there currently is an affect on children of homosexual parents, its way more harmful to lie to a kid tellng them there's a santa clause, easter bunny and the world was made in 8 days and they'll go to hell if they don't act a certain way.

and truly....bravo!

who'da thunk it's so damn difficult to be tolerant, perhaps even accepting..of others outside your own way of thinking/living? people make up all sorts of 'excuses'...but really, that's what it comes down to. funny too...those who like to argue about it 'going against the laws of nature'...or whatever such BS....whereas in reality, i think?...my #s/species may be off...but i believe there's at least 20% of other species that exhibit homosexual behavior....yep...animals in nature. me, my personal hypothesis...with no scientific backing mind you...but my own thoughts on homosexuality...and infertility in general...whether for homosapiens or any other species....is it is simply mother nature exhibiting some 'controls' over various species populations. it harms NO one. besides the fact...on a very UNscientific notion....love is love.

edited for particularly atrocious typos.

OutOfBreath · September 2007

Good job SundaySilence. I tried to look for those things myself, but I am not familiar with where to find american data on such subjects. I am too used to the Norwegian sites and sources for such purposes. Why dont you americans have a central statistics bureau anyway?

Anyway, good finds! Still waiting for the counter-evidence.

Peace
Dan

jamtemplechains · September 2007

SundaySilence wrote:

From the American Psychiatric Association:

"Numerous studies over the last three decades consistently demonstrate that children raised by gay or lesbian parents exhibit the same level of emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as children raised by heterosexual parents."
http://www.psych.org/edu/other_res/lib_archives/archives/200214.pdf

From the American Academy of Pediatrics:

"A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with 1 or 2 gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Children’s optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes."
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;109/2/341?fulltext=homosexuality&searchid=QID_NOT_SET

thank you, sunday

i was waiting for someone to make some of the fools in here choke on their own ignorance.
lol at the pat robertson thing, too. i can't wait for someone to post a link to youtube of an anti-same sex marriage segment on the 700 club!

Uncle Leo · September 2007

Juberoo wrote:

Corporate Whore you are not helping to make a stand against gay marriage with comments like "gays brought AIDS". That is rediculous.

While the male homosexual community has consistently held the highest census for the disease, it came from contamination in humans via monkeys in the Congo. SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) is scientifically believed to be the origin of HIV. It is thought to have crossed species via butchering techniques or eating of raw monkey flesh, specifically the brain.

Oh shit. CW, Juberoo came down on for for your gay bashing. Juberoo! You know when that happens you may as well just grab a white hood and move on to a new stage of life. That's like David Duke calling you a racist or Hitler coming back from the dead to call you an anti-semite. I never thought someone's gay bashing would get criticism from Juberoo. Juberoo! Congrats!

jamtemplechains · September 2007

OutOfBreath wrote:

Good job SundaySilence. I tried to look for those things myself, but I am not familiar with where to find american data on such subjects. I am too used to the Norwegian sites and sources for such purposes. Why dont you americans have a central statistics bureau anyway?

Anyway, good finds! Still waiting for the counter-evidence.

Peace
Dan

true that on the central statistics bureau statement! believe me, it's just one of the many silly aspects of life in the u.s. don't get me wrong, i love it here and there really are a lot of good things about this country, but for every good and respectable characteristic of america, there is something lame and nonsensical. now i better duck out before i get hit up by the 'love it or leave it!' people...

decides2dream · September 2007

for excellent information/links posted above...and to see any counter-arguements links...if any....possibly provided.

especially b/c i see the same BS about children 'suffering' in homosexual homes being spewed elsewhere in other threads...and STILL not one shred of substantive evidence.

saying/typing it over and over...simply doesn't make it true!

hail, hail for accurate information!

kudos to sundaysilence for providing said info again...much obliged.

deadnothingbetter · September 2007

decides2dream wrote:

for excellent information/links posted above...and to see any counter-arguements links...if any....possibly provided.

especially b/c i see the same BS about children 'suffering' in homosexual homes being spewed elsewhere in other threads...and STILL not one shred of substantive evidence.

saying/typing it over and over...simply doesn't make it true!

hail, hail for accurate information!
kudos to sundaysilence for providing said info again...much obliged.

i wouldn't argue if kids growing up in homosexual homes suffer.... but i would argue that the mother of the child who's growing up with two daddies must suck for them.

put it this way.... if i empregnated this girl and turns out she's a lesbian.... i wouldn't want her to be influencing my child's point-of-view by telling my kid that he/she's got two mommies. god, it's like she's literally yanked my balls out..... that would really hurt me.

Iowa court rules same-sex couples can marry

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