I dont understand how that degrades your parents in any way. Because same-sex parents can be as good? That isn't an indictment of your parents, you know.
And how is it biased? It shows the results of an official canadian study.
Peace
Dan
read the post again.... i said the part that says that gay parents can be better at parenting.... i'll give them the benefit of the doubt though.... sure, a kid can grow up in a same sex parenting household and still grow up a perfectly normal kid. but to tell me that same sex parenting is actually better than a regular opposite sex parenting??? that's a little too much...
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
read the post again.... i said the part that says that gay parents can be better at parenting.... i'll give them the benefit of the doubt though.... sure, a kid can grow up in a same sex parenting household and still grow up a perfectly normal kid. but to tell me that same sex parenting is actually better than a regular opposite sex parenting??? that's a little too much...
Well if the findings suggested that gay were as good, and perhaps in a very small way better on some of the indicators chosen, that isn't very much. The lesbian mother at the end had some strong opinions, but that was not the gist of it. The findings was that there were small or non-existent difference between gay and straight parents, and some of the very small differences actually pointed in that direction. Statistically, if you have many variables that have little effect (meaning little difference in this case) then they will go slightly up or down as a result of zero is VERY rare if not impossible. In this case, some of the small effects went in the direction of gay parents, and som in favour of straight, but the differences largely insignificant, and thus lent litte weight. This was a quantitative statistical analysis.
And even if they had said that gay parents are totally better, I still dont see why that would degrade your parents in any possible way. This study does not give or take away anything from your parents or their parenting in any way I can see.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Well if the findings suggested that gay were as good, and perhaps in a very small way better on some of the indicators chosen, that isn't very much. The lesbian mother at the end had some strong opinions, but that was not the gist of it. The findings was that there were small or non-existent difference between gay and straight parents, and some of the very small differences actually pointed in that direction. Statistically, if you have many variables that have little effect (meaning little difference in this case) then they will go slightly up or down as a result of zero is VERY rare if not impossible. In this case, some of the small effects went in the direction of gay parents, and som in favour of straight, but the differences largely insignificant, and thus lent litte weight. This was a quantitative statistical analysis.
And even if they had said that gay parents are totally better, I still dont see why that would degrade your parents in any possible way. This study does not give or take away anything from your parents or their parenting in any way I can see.
Peace
Dan
yes it does. if they say gay parenting might be better that's exactly what they are suggesting. if you don't see it, it's very easy. put gay parents next to my parents.... than based on the study you conclude that the gay parents are actually better at parenting than my parents. that's bullshit. (and i don't curse very often)
it's as if i were to say that mexicans are just as good, if not BETTER than white americans at parenting. or vice-versa.... catch my drift? i just feel that the article would've been much more affective if they just concluded that gay parenting is just as equal as any other normal opposite-sex parenting. (not that i would necessarily agree but i'll let them have it)
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
yes it does. if they say gay parenting might be better that's exactly what they are suggesting. if you don't see it, it's very easy. put gay parents next to my parents.... than based on the study you conclude that the gay parents are actually better at parenting than my parents. that's bullshit. (and i don't curse very often)
Then you dont understand how statistics work. Your parents are irrelevant, as they may well be way above the average hetero couple. Who knows? Noone has measured it here in any way. So the couples put beside eachother would depend on.. the couples put aside eachother. What is said here is first of all, there is virtually no difference between gay and hetero parents and secondly, at some indicators, gays actually came out marginally better (implying that straights came out best on others).
How it demeans your parents I still honestly do not see, as your parents are in no way involved here. If anything, the average gay parents may be marginally better at some things than the average straight parents. Are your parents average in the statistical sense? Who knows?
it's as if i were to say that mexicans are just as good, if not BETTER than white americans at parenting. or vice-versa.... catch my drift? i just feel that the article would've been much more affective if they just concluded that gay parenting is just as equal as any other normal opposite-sex parenting. (not that i would necessarily agree but i'll let them have it)
Well, if the data did show that mexicans were better parents, then that's what the data shows. How much one should read into it, is another matter, and also depending on the data used.
These data, however, showed what you wanted: No difference to speak of. Period.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
yes it does. if they say gay parenting might be better that's exactly what they are suggesting. if you don't see it, it's very easy. put gay parents next to my parents.... than based on the study you conclude that the gay parents are actually better at parenting than my parents. that's bullshit. (and i don't curse very often)
it's as if i were to say that mexicans are just as good, if not BETTER than white americans at parenting. or vice-versa.... catch my drift? i just feel that the article would've been much more affective if they just concluded that gay parenting is just as equal as any other normal opposite-sex parenting. (not that i would necessarily agree but i'll let them have it)
not at ALL what is being said. i am not speaking for dan - outofbreath - however, if such a statement as 'gays are better parents' were to be true....it would simply mean ON AVERAGE....IN GENERAL......as in MOST of the time. there are ALWAYS exceptions, so your exceptional parents could obviously be BETTER parents. however, no matter what...it is ONE article, in a sea of studies...and given how often gay parenting IS beashed, it is really nice to see them get the kudos they deserve, and also to show that sometimes, yes...they might actually even be 'better' than average parents. that's all.
opps...and i see dan already addressed the issue. i started this post...actually got interrupted by some work haha...and then just finished it off. eh well, nothing like driving home a point, eh?
Then you dont understand how statistics work. Your parents are irrelevant, as they may well be way above the average hetero couple. Who knows? Noone has measured it here in any way. So the couples put beside eachother would depend on.. the couples put aside eachother. What is said here is first of all, there is virtually no difference between gay and hetero parents and secondly, at some indicators, gays actually came out marginally better (implying that straights came out best on others).
How it demeans your parents I still honestly do not see, as your parents are in no way involved here. If anything, the average gay parents may be marginally better at some things than the average straight parents. Are your parents average in the statistical sense? Who knows?
i got my own personal views about parenting.... but i don't want to get into that. so i wouldn't say that my parents are better than average or just average.
maybe the wordings they used were entirely wrong. you know, the part about gays being better than straights. when they say "gay parents" are better than "straight parents" they're are automatically saying that a gay couple could've raised me better than my parents. how could you not see it?
now... sure, there are some straight parents who are bad parents... which would make them worse than some gay parents. see what i mean? that would've been a more accurate statistic. just cos some study was performed in canada doesn't mean that it conclusively implies that gay parents are better than all straight parents. it's just the whole wording and the title can be very misleading.
Well, if the data did show that mexicans were better parents, then that's what the data shows. How much one should read into it, is another matter, and also depending on the data used.
you're telling me that you'd be okay with it? you're telling me that you'd be trusting those mexicans, that is if the mexicans made this study about they themselves being better at parenting?
These data, however, showed what you wanted: No difference to speak of. Period.
what do you mean?
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
it is ONE article, in a sea of studies...and given how often gay parenting IS beashed, it is really nice to see them get the kudos they deserve, and also to show that sometimes, yes...they might actually even be 'better' than average parents.
ok, that's all i'm saying. thanks. not that i, myself, would give them kudos... but i could live with that.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
i got my own personal views about parenting.... but i don't want to get into that. so i wouldn't say that my parents are better than average or just average.
maybe the wordings they used were entirely wrong. you know, the part about gays being better than straights. when they say "gay parents" are better than "straight parents" they're are automatically saying that a gay couple could've raised me better than my parents. how could you not see it?
OK, it seems one thing needs to be made clear. These results were based on quantitative statistical analysis which is not included directly, but whose results are presented. It is not loose opinion we're talking about, but results from statistical analysis of data.
And actually, you are wrong. That gays overall in some measures are better than straight does not at all mean that any gay couple could have raised you better. It just means that on some of the indicators (of which there were many) gays were actually slightly, and I do mean slightly, better. On average. You cannot in any way cut that down to your parents specifically, so no reason to get personal, unless they participated in this study. This has nothing to do with you, your upbringing or your parents. Statistics like that are never to be interpreted on a person level.
now... sure, there are some straight parents who are bad parents... which would make them worse than some gay parents. see what i mean? that would've been a more accurate statistic. just cos some study was performed in canada doesn't mean that it conclusively implies that gay parents are better than all straight parents. it's just the whole wording and the title can be very misleading.
Again, statistical analysis makes for the claims made here. And they do say that there are no significant (mind this word as it makes a world of difference in statistics) differences.
you're telling me that you'd be okay with it? you're telling me that you'd be trusting those mexicans, that is if the mexicans made this study about they themselves being better at parenting?
If a study was made, and this was the result, then that was the result. Like it or not, and interpret it as you wish. It doesn't hold as opinion in itself, and neither does gays are better parents. It is a result of statistical analysis. If the result doesn't sound right, then we need to move into how they measure in this study, which is not mentioned here and make a critique of method. But truths and results must be treated for what they are, inconvenient as they may be.
what do you mean?
If you look aside the lesbian mother ending that article, the main result listed was No difference to speak of between straight and gay parents. The slight in favour of gays found, since they dont highlight it much and state how it is very small may be not much more than statistical insecurity. Small differences in statistics can often be replaced with no difference. But since it actually tipped a bit that way, they thought it worthy of mention.
But the result was, as you requested, no difference to speak of.
(edit) hold it. If you just accepted what d2d said, then you are in agreement with me as well here. I am just driving home what a statistical study and its' results means.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
OK, it seems one thing needs to be made clear. These results were based on quantitative statistical analysis which is not included directly, but whose results are presented. It is not loose opinion we're talking about, but results from statistical analysis of data.
all the more reason i wouldn't trust that article completely.
And actually, you are wrong.
no i'm not.
That gays overall in some measures are better than straight does not at all mean that any gay couple could have raised you better.
yes it does. if they say that overall in some measures gay parents are (slightly) better than straight parents then they are most certainly implying that there was a tidy little good chance that i would've probably been raised better.
It just means that on some of the indicators (of which there were many) gays were actually slightly, and I do mean slightly, better. On average.
see what i mean?
You cannot in any way cut that down to your parents specifically, so no reason to get personal, unless they participated in this study.
oh come on... if they put out this study that means that they were trying to show that this is definitely plausible in any other situation, including my parents. in other words, if it holds true for them then it certainly holds true for any other parents, including my parents.
This has nothing to do with you, your upbringing or your parents. Statistics like that are never to be interpreted on a person level.
well, not on a personal level... but they certainly did come out with some slightly ridiculous claims.
Again, statistical analysis makes for the claims made here. And they do say that there are no significant (mind this word as it makes a world of difference in statistics) differences.
except that in general they are slightly better :rolleyes:
If a study was made, and this was the result, then that was the result. Like it or not, and interpret it as you wish. It doesn't hold as opinion in itself, and neither does gays are better parents. It is a result of statistical analysis. If the result doesn't sound right, then we need to move into how they measure in this study, which is not mentioned here and make a critique of method. But truths and results must be treated for what they are, inconvenient as they may be.
you said it yourself, "It's a result of statistical analysis. If the result doesn't sound right, then we need to move into how they measure in this study, which is not mentioned here" all the while, still even more reasons why i wouldn't trust the article.
If you look aside the lesbian mother ending that article, the main result listed was No difference to speak of between straight and gay parents. The slight in favour of gays found, since they dont highlight it much and state how it is very small may be not much more than statistical insecurity. Small differences in statistics can often be replaced with no difference. But since it actually tipped a bit that way, they thought it worthy of mention.
no gain mentioning it.... just to piss people off, probably.
But the result was, as you requested, no difference to speak of.
which is fine.... if there are no differences, then there are no differences... and none of that, "they might be slightly better" thing.
(edit) hold it. If you just accepted what d2d said, then you are in agreement with me as well here. I am just driving home what a statistical study and its' results means.
oh ok... then ignore all that i said.
Peace
Dan
Peace, Miguel
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
oh come on... if they put out this study that means that they were trying to show that this is definitely plausible in any other situation, including my parents. in other words, if it holds true for them then it certainly holds true for any other parents, including my parents.
It is always, always wrong to infer such large scale studies down to the personal level in any way. What a big statistic study shows as mean and average tendencies does nothing to you or yours in particular. And, in this case, what was measured was average tendencies for children with different types of parents and how well they adjusted on various scales. If there are tendencies of ethnicity (like your mexican example), doesn't mean that everyone becoming mexican would soilve anything. Gay parents being better on average does not mean that everyone should have gay parents. This is a type of mistake that is one of the first kinds you learn in social sciences. They go like this:
1. Because one person can do it, everyone can do it.
2. If an average or tendency say most people do it, means that you do it.
Both if these are wrong.
And dont mess with me on this, I am teaching method in social sciences at the university right now.
And further, you seemed to imply that being compared with gays were an insult in itself ie. gays suck, if they are better at something, than those being beaten must then suck harder.
Now if you can see what my main objections here have been, then we can probably lay this to rest, as I dont think we disagree that much anyway.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Ah forget it. My main beef was anyway this statement here (and the ones like it):
It is always, always wrong to infer such large scale studies down to the personal level in any way. What a big statistic study shows as mean and average tendencies does nothing to you or yours in particular. And, in this case, what was measured was average tendencies for children with different types of parents and how well they adjusted on various scales. If there are tendencies of ethnicity (like your mexican example), doesn't mean that everyone becoming mexican would soilve anything. Gay parents being better on average does not mean that everyone should have gay parents. This is a type of mistake that is one of the first kinds you learn in social sciences. They go like this:
1. Because one person can do it, everyone can do it.
2. If an average or tendency say most people do it, means that you do it.
Both if these are wrong.
And dont mess with me on this, I am teaching method in social sciences at the university right now.
And further, you seemed to imply that being compared with gays were an insult in itself ie. gays suck, if they are better at something, than those being beaten must then suck harder.
Now if you can see what my main objections here have been, then we can probably lay this to rest, as I dont think we disagree that much anyway.
Peace
Dan
yeah, of course, you're telling me. don't worry, it's not affecting you. it should never affect you personally, so we're both on the same page here. not really. but it doesn't matter anyways.
the thing is that if they are saying that on AVERAGE gay parenting can be better than straight parenting...... i don't know, man.... sounds kinda fishy.
but like i said before.... i can agree that gay parents can actually raise a child better than a straight couple.... afterall, there are many straight couples who cheat on each other, are abusive to each other, etc. so i can understand taht. but my problem is when the title makes it sound as if it's saying that gay parenting is much more beneficial than straight parenting (on average). see what i'm saying?
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
yeah, of course, you're telling me. don't worry, it's not affecting you. it should never affect you personally, so we're both on the same page here. not really. but it doesn't matter anyways.
Yes, and more specifically, such studies cannot be reduced to individuals, unless the individuals were part of the study.
the thing is that if they are saying that on AVERAGE gay parenting can be better than straight parenting...... i don't know, man.... sounds kinda fishy.
Which is what the study found at a very small degree. Doesn't mean that it is definitely the way it is, but this study indicates that it is so in this particular case(s). More studies would be needed to back it up if we're gonna accept it as the truth, yes. No reason to question motives and attitudes when presenting results from a study that shows what it shows.
but like i said before.... i can agree that gay parents can actually raise a child better than a straight couple.... afterall, there are many straight couples who cheat on each other, are abusive to each other, etc. so i can understand taht. but my problem is when the title makes it sound as if it's saying that gay parenting is much more beneficial than straight parenting (on average). see what i'm saying?
And since the study slightly supports that position, it is sortof justified. (Although it should be no surprise that headlines are usually juiced up to get attention.) What it definitely shows is that kids with gay parents are not worse off on average in a large sample, than "regular" kids.
I'm still open as to how it really hangs together, my theory would also be little difference. But this study shows what it shows, even though it may not be the full truth, that would need more studies.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Yes, and more specifically, such studies cannot be reduced to individuals, unless the individuals were part of the study.
so they why even bother taking into consideration any type of studies? doesn't make sense.
Which is what the study found at a very small degree. Doesn't mean that it is definitely the way it is, but this study indicates that it is so in this particular case(s). More studies would be needed to back it up if we're gonna accept it as the truth, yes. No reason to question motives and attitudes when presenting results from a study that shows what it shows.
it's just common sense.... we don't even need to rely on studies. fuck the studies. why not just realize that in reality anybody, gay/single/straight/couple have the potential of raising children right? i've always believed that.
take single parents in this case.... they too are capable of raising children just as good as couples can, whether straight/gay.
And since the study slightly supports that position, it is sortof justified. (Although it should be no surprise that headlines are usually juiced up to get attention.) What it definitely shows is that kids with gay parents are not worse off on average in a large sample, than "regular" kids.
that's all i'm saying
I'm still open as to how it really hangs together, my theory would also be little difference. But this study shows what it shows, even though it may not be the full truth, that would need more studies.
ok
Peace
Dan
ahhh.... whatever... j/k
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
so they why even bother taking into consideration any type of studies? doesn't make sense.
Because it says something about the large scale of things. It says something about populations, not individuals.
But I think we're done now. We dont really disagree. I am just trying to drive home how statistics work. I can't help myself, I teach the stuff after all.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
worry about what you do, and what you do to improve it.
Don't point to other people in order to belittle them in order to justify your own shortcomings in life.
fuckers...
yeah fuckers... don't be one...
smarten up...
Think about it. So...you're perfect?
My ass you are...
like anybody is....
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Because it says something about the large scale of things. It says something about populations, not individuals.
But I think we're done now. We dont really disagree. I am just trying to drive home how statistics work. I can't help myself, I teach the stuff after all.
Peace
Dan
ok
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
so they why even bother taking into consideration any type of studies? doesn't make sense.
it's just common sense.... we don't even need to rely on studies. fuck the studies. why not just realize that in reality anybody, gay/single/straight/couple have the potential of raising children right? i've always believed that.
take single parents in this case.... they too are capable of raising children just as good as couples can, whether straight/gay.
that's all i'm saying
ok
ahhh.... whatever... j/k
evidently you don't even read our little MT all that much if you say that. why? b/c there will always be people who *disapprove* of others' lifestyles, why? fuck if i know...but they do...and they will take any/all ammunition they can to use against said 'different' groups...so then we need studies to prove the obvious, as you state...it IS common sense. sadly, it is quite uncommon, this common sense....:p....since all too many like to state their OPINION...such as homosexuals providing a poor home environment....as FACT. thus, we get studies to PROVE otherwise, to combat those with not too much common sense. sad, but true.
If white people could draft friends the way that the NFL drafts prospects it would go like this: black friends, gay friends, and then all other minorities would be drafted based on need and rarity to the region.
When choosing gay friends, white people like to base their decision on their own needs and requirements. Younger white people tend to prefer young, high social social gay people-this is their all important ticket into nightclubs and parties.
When a straight person goes to a gay night club, they are reminded of how progressive and tolerant they are. If they are hit on by a member of the same sex, it provides them with a valuable story that they can use to prove to their other friends that they are more progressive and tolerant. “This guy/girl hit on me, I said I was ’straight but not narrow,’ and it was totally chill. Oh, you went to an Irish bar this weekend? That’s cool, I guess. “
Older white people prefer to be friends with gay parents because it enables their children to experience much needed diversity with people who are, for all intents and purposes, exactly the same as them.
It is also worth noting that a gay friendship of any sort allows white people to feel as though they are a part of the gay rights movement. While white people love being a part of any movement, the gay movement is especially important to them because they can blend in at rallies and protests and spend an afternoon feeling the sting of oppression.
Gay friends are an essential part of a white person’s all-star diversity roster. But they are always on the lookout for the ultimate friend; a gay minority.
It is generally accepted that a gay black friend with a child is considered a once in a lifetime opportunity - like a quarterback who can pass, run, kick, and play linebacker. White people will crawl over each other for the opportunity to claim this person as a friend and add them to their roster of diversity.
Other minorities are also highly prized and assigned a ranking based on the level of intolerance in they face from their respective cultures and family members.
Once a white person has told you about their gay friends, it is recommended that you say “I wish more people were like you,” every few months. This will allow them to feel good about their progressive choice of friends and remind them that they are better than other white people.
If you follow this simple rule, you should be able to maximize all benefits of white friendship including assistance in moving and free drinks.
Comments
And even if they had said that gay parents are totally better, I still dont see why that would degrade your parents in any possible way. This study does not give or take away anything from your parents or their parenting in any way I can see.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
it's as if i were to say that mexicans are just as good, if not BETTER than white americans at parenting. or vice-versa.... catch my drift? i just feel that the article would've been much more affective if they just concluded that gay parenting is just as equal as any other normal opposite-sex parenting. (not that i would necessarily agree
How it demeans your parents I still honestly do not see, as your parents are in no way involved here. If anything, the average gay parents may be marginally better at some things than the average straight parents. Are your parents average in the statistical sense? Who knows?
Well, if the data did show that mexicans were better parents, then that's what the data shows. How much one should read into it, is another matter, and also depending on the data used.
These data, however, showed what you wanted: No difference to speak of. Period.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
not at ALL what is being said. i am not speaking for dan - outofbreath - however, if such a statement as 'gays are better parents' were to be true....it would simply mean ON AVERAGE....IN GENERAL......as in MOST of the time. there are ALWAYS exceptions, so your exceptional parents could obviously be BETTER parents. however, no matter what...it is ONE article, in a sea of studies...and given how often gay parenting IS beashed, it is really nice to see them get the kudos they deserve, and also to show that sometimes, yes...they might actually even be 'better' than average parents. that's all.
opps...and i see dan already addressed the issue.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
maybe the wordings they used were entirely wrong. you know, the part about gays being better than straights. when they say "gay parents" are better than "straight parents" they're are automatically saying that a gay couple could've raised me better than my parents. how could you not see it?
now... sure, there are some straight parents who are bad parents... which would make them worse than some gay parents. see what i mean? that would've been a more accurate statistic. just cos some study was performed in canada doesn't mean that it conclusively implies that gay parents are better than all straight parents. it's just the whole wording and the title can be very misleading.
you're telling me that you'd be okay with it? you're telling me that you'd be trusting those mexicans, that is if the mexicans made this study about they themselves being better at parenting?
what do you mean?
And actually, you are wrong. That gays overall in some measures are better than straight does not at all mean that any gay couple could have raised you better. It just means that on some of the indicators (of which there were many) gays were actually slightly, and I do mean slightly, better. On average. You cannot in any way cut that down to your parents specifically, so no reason to get personal, unless they participated in this study. This has nothing to do with you, your upbringing or your parents. Statistics like that are never to be interpreted on a person level.
Again, statistical analysis makes for the claims made here. And they do say that there are no significant (mind this word as it makes a world of difference in statistics) differences.
If a study was made, and this was the result, then that was the result. Like it or not, and interpret it as you wish. It doesn't hold as opinion in itself, and neither does gays are better parents. It is a result of statistical analysis. If the result doesn't sound right, then we need to move into how they measure in this study, which is not mentioned here and make a critique of method. But truths and results must be treated for what they are, inconvenient as they may be.
If you look aside the lesbian mother ending that article, the main result listed was No difference to speak of between straight and gay parents. The slight in favour of gays found, since they dont highlight it much and state how it is very small may be not much more than statistical insecurity. Small differences in statistics can often be replaced with no difference. But since it actually tipped a bit that way, they thought it worthy of mention.
But the result was, as you requested, no difference to speak of.
(edit) hold it. If you just accepted what d2d said, then you are in agreement with me as well here. I am just driving home what a statistical study and its' results means.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
no i'm not. yes it does. if they say that overall in some measures gay parents are (slightly) better than straight parents then they are most certainly implying that there was a tidy little good chance that i would've probably been raised better. see what i mean? oh come on... if they put out this study that means that they were trying to show that this is definitely plausible in any other situation, including my parents. in other words, if it holds true for them then it certainly holds true for any other parents, including my parents. well, not on a personal level... but they certainly did come out with some slightly ridiculous claims.
except that in general they are slightly better :rolleyes:
you said it yourself, "It's a result of statistical analysis. If the result doesn't sound right, then we need to move into how they measure in this study, which is not mentioned here" all the while, still even more reasons why i wouldn't trust the article.
no gain mentioning it.... just to piss people off, probably.
which is fine.... if there are no differences, then there are no differences... and none of that, "they might be slightly better" thing.
oh ok... then ignore all that i said.
Peace, Miguel
1. Because one person can do it, everyone can do it.
2. If an average or tendency say most people do it, means that you do it.
Both if these are wrong.
And dont mess with me on this, I am teaching method in social sciences at the university right now.
And further, you seemed to imply that being compared with gays were an insult in itself ie. gays suck, if they are better at something, than those being beaten must then suck harder.
Now if you can see what my main objections here have been, then we can probably lay this to rest, as I dont think we disagree that much anyway.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
the thing is that if they are saying that on AVERAGE gay parenting can be better than straight parenting...... i don't know, man.... sounds kinda fishy.
but like i said before.... i can agree that gay parents can actually raise a child better than a straight couple.... afterall, there are many straight couples who cheat on each other, are abusive to each other, etc. so i can understand taht. but my problem is when the title makes it sound as if it's saying that gay parenting is much more beneficial than straight parenting (on average). see what i'm saying?
Which is what the study found at a very small degree. Doesn't mean that it is definitely the way it is, but this study indicates that it is so in this particular case(s). More studies would be needed to back it up if we're gonna accept it as the truth, yes. No reason to question motives and attitudes when presenting results from a study that shows what it shows.
And since the study slightly supports that position, it is sortof justified. (Although it should be no surprise that headlines are usually juiced up to get attention.) What it definitely shows is that kids with gay parents are not worse off on average in a large sample, than "regular" kids.
I'm still open as to how it really hangs together, my theory would also be little difference. But this study shows what it shows, even though it may not be the full truth, that would need more studies.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
it's just common sense.... we don't even need to rely on studies. fuck the studies. why not just realize that in reality anybody, gay/single/straight/couple have the potential of raising children right? i've always believed that.
take single parents in this case.... they too are capable of raising children just as good as couples can, whether straight/gay.
that's all i'm saying
ok
ahhh.... whatever... j/k
But I think we're done now. We dont really disagree. I am just trying to drive home how statistics work. I can't help myself, I teach the stuff after all.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
live your own live...
again...
live your own life...
worry about what you do, and what you do to improve it.
Don't point to other people in order to belittle them in order to justify your own shortcomings in life.
fuckers...
yeah fuckers... don't be one...
smarten up...
Think about it. So...you're perfect?
My ass you are...
like anybody is....
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
evidently you don't even read our little MT all that much if you say that.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/03/14/88-having-gay-friends/
"Stuff White People Like"
#88 Having Gay Friends
March 14, 2008 by clander
If white people could draft friends the way that the NFL drafts prospects it would go like this: black friends, gay friends, and then all other minorities would be drafted based on need and rarity to the region.
When choosing gay friends, white people like to base their decision on their own needs and requirements. Younger white people tend to prefer young, high social social gay people-this is their all important ticket into nightclubs and parties.
When a straight person goes to a gay night club, they are reminded of how progressive and tolerant they are. If they are hit on by a member of the same sex, it provides them with a valuable story that they can use to prove to their other friends that they are more progressive and tolerant. “This guy/girl hit on me, I said I was ’straight but not narrow,’ and it was totally chill. Oh, you went to an Irish bar this weekend? That’s cool, I guess. “
Older white people prefer to be friends with gay parents because it enables their children to experience much needed diversity with people who are, for all intents and purposes, exactly the same as them.
It is also worth noting that a gay friendship of any sort allows white people to feel as though they are a part of the gay rights movement. While white people love being a part of any movement, the gay movement is especially important to them because they can blend in at rallies and protests and spend an afternoon feeling the sting of oppression.
Gay friends are an essential part of a white person’s all-star diversity roster. But they are always on the lookout for the ultimate friend; a gay minority.
It is generally accepted that a gay black friend with a child is considered a once in a lifetime opportunity - like a quarterback who can pass, run, kick, and play linebacker. White people will crawl over each other for the opportunity to claim this person as a friend and add them to their roster of diversity.
Other minorities are also highly prized and assigned a ranking based on the level of intolerance in they face from their respective cultures and family members.
Once a white person has told you about their gay friends, it is recommended that you say “I wish more people were like you,” every few months. This will allow them to feel good about their progressive choice of friends and remind them that they are better than other white people.
If you follow this simple rule, you should be able to maximize all benefits of white friendship including assistance in moving and free drinks.