Gay Marriage Ban

Prince Of Dorkness

norm wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

This really has been one of the best reads going.

Thanks. I've had a pretty rough week and coming home to this has been... pretty nice.

And when I can renew my vows here in America... I want Pearl Jam to play and y'all to come.

home? aren't you heading over the hill to george's to hang with the prez?

Oddly enough I was asked to sit this one out.

Seems that maybe the president doesn't necessarily want to have his picture taken with "famed gay porn director and producer Jasun Mark."

I was crushed.

Prince Of Dorkness

norm wrote:

home? aren't you heading over the hill to george's to hang with the prez?

And for your information, George doesn't live "over the hill," he lives just a bit up the hill. I shudder to think of the things that man has seen going on on my roof.

norm

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

norm wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

This really has been one of the best reads going.

Thanks. I've had a pretty rough week and coming home to this has been... pretty nice.

And when I can renew my vows here in America... I want Pearl Jam to play and y'all to come.

home? aren't you heading over the hill to george's to hang with the prez?

Oddly enough I was asked to sit this one out.

Seems that maybe the president doesn't necessarily want to have his picture taken with "famed gay porn director and producer Jasun Mark."

I was crushed.

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

And for your information, George doesn't live "over the hill," he lives just a bit up the hill. I shudder to think of the things that man has seen going on on my roof.

oh...for some reason i thought you were on the westside

oh, that's your house?!

hedonist

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

This really has been one of the best reads going.

Thanks. I've had a pretty rough week and coming home to this has been... pretty nice.

And when I can renew my vows here in America... I want Pearl Jam to play and y'all to come.

I'd be there - not to see how short (and nice) you are in real life - but to congratulate

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

seems clear to me that you think the term marriage should only pertain to marriage between a man and a woman. what is it im missing here?

Wrong again that is what preservers of marriage believe not me
but you hear only what you want to hear.

You also think I am not pro gay marriage wrong again!
I am mostly pro gay rights though
and don't want to have my friends waiting any longer for their civil union equal rights,
they have waited a lifetime already.

and i quote you again pandora..

i am also for equal rights for all and am very fine with marriage remaining as it was intended to be between a man and a woman ...

why is it you cant admit what youve written? ive previously stated that we all know youre all for gay marriage. i am agreeing youve said this. we are on the same side with this. but what i am having the problem with, mainly cause you wont clarify it for me, is you personally stating whether or not you support gay marriage using that terminology. not only that but youve previously stated it should be given some glorious spanky new name.. basically anything BUT marrriage... which only gives creedence to what i believe to be the intent of your words. that you personally DO NOT support gays using the term marriage. and having read and re-read the above quote, which are your own words, ive finally figured it out. you dont believe it should be called marriage... and that youre okay with that. you can deny it all you like but your words speak volumes. you really should own your words pandora. it will set you free.

im done with this witness your honor.

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

seems clear to me that you think the term marriage should only pertain to marriage between a man and a woman. what is it im missing here?

Wrong again that is what preservers of marriage believe not me
but you hear only what you want to hear.

You also think I am not pro gay marriage wrong again!
I am mostly pro gay rights though
and don't want to have my friends waiting any longer for their civil union equal rights,
they have waited a lifetime already.

and i quote you again pandora..

i am also for equal rights for all and am very fine with marriage remaining as it was intended to be between a man and a woman ...

why is it you cant admit what youve written? ive previously stated that we all know youre all for gay marriage. i am agreeing youve said this. we are on the same side with this. but what i am having the problem with, mainly cause you wont clarify it for me, is you personally stating whether or not you support gay marriage using that terminology. not only that but youve previously stated it should be given some glorious spanky new name.. basically anything BUT marrriage... which only gives creedence to what i believe to be the intent of your words. that you personally DO NOT support gays using the term marriage. and having read and re-read the above quote, which are your own words, ive finally figured it out. you dont believe it should be called marriage... and that youre okay with that. you can deny it all you like but your words speak volumes. you really should own your words pandora. it will set you free.

im done with this witness your honor.

I just said I am pro gay marriage using that term but mostly pro civil rights ...
I have also explained why but will again here.

I would be fine with marriage staying between a man and a woman IF it meant
the passing of equal legal rights for gay civil unions NOW .


Yes, as a solution, a new term for gay marriages would be progression and a resolution
in the current and upcoming situation. As we saw in NC more states are going to be passing amendments defining marriage, protecting it for decades in the future.
Many will indeed want to keep marriage a traditional word while gay civil unions
and their equality will not be an issue. That never was for many of these people.
This changes the current situation greatly. This something we are just learning and witnessing.

As I have mentioned numerous times my friends who have had lifetime partners
will not be around decades from now, the equal rights is what they need NOW.

I would like to see the current administration grant them that NOW.

This has been my stance throughout the thread and what surprises me is that many here did not even know of the movement that is growing stronger as we speak to protect the definition of marriage and keep its traditional meaning while removing the civil equality completely from the equation. This will encompass more supporters why giving civil rights NOW is necessary.

MayDay10

The problem is, that there really is no such thing as "Marriage Preservers". They just dont like gays. The ballet result in NC wasnt about "protecting marriage". It was about keeping the gays down into a second class. You really think that people showed up in droves to protect a stupid fucking word? To provide Civil Unions, or Marriages would likely draw the same voting lines.

"protecting marriage" is just a phrase hateful people use to disguise their bigotry. Its complete horse shit and cowardly.

A couple years ago, I met a guy who was working with us, who lived in Tennessee. Right after introductions, he went on to tell me how he was taking the day off to fly to Tennessee to vote. The vote was for Tennessee to not recognize civil unions conceived in other states. He just figured it was vile and I was on board with that.
Its bullshit. Too many ignorant people are going to keep getting in the way. No matter what you call it. Just give them their marriages and be done with it.

pandora

MayDay10 wrote:

The problem is, that there really is no such thing as "Marriage Preservers". They just dont like gays. The ballet result in NC wasnt about "protecting marriage". It was about keeping the gays down into a second class. You really think that people showed up in droves to protect a stupid fucking word?

"protecting marriage" is just a phrase hateful people use to disguise their bigotry. Its complete horse shit and cowardly.

A couple years ago, I met a guy who was working with us, who lived in Tennessee. Right after introductions, he went on to tell me how he was taking the day off to fly to Tennessee to vote. The vote was for Tennessee to not recognize civil unions conceived in other states. He just figured it was vile and I was on board with that.
Its bullshit. Too many ignorant people are going to keep getting in the way. No matter what you call it. Just give them their marriages and be done with it.

Of course its not just a word. :?
Yes there is a definite movement of those who are striving to protect traditional marriage.
Has nothing to do with not liking someone nor keeping anyone from equality under the law.
Your example is of one and yes there are many but there are many joining with the vote
only to protect the traditional meaning of marriage.
They support civil union equality but do not support changing the meaning
and definition of marriage. This is a new change in thinking,
why support has dropped for gay marriage since 2011.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

Has nothing to do with not liking someone nor keeping anyone from equality under the law.

:fp:

Hugh Freaking Dillon

show us a website or some information on this group you call preservers of marriage. I would like to see their stance and the reason they don't want gays to be allowed to use the word that is oh so sacred.

MayDay10

pandora wrote:

Of course its not just a word. :?
Yes there is a definite movement of those who are striving to protect traditional marriage.
Has nothing to do with not liking someone nor keeping anyone from equality under the law.
Your example is of one and yes there are many but there are many joining with the vote
only to protect the traditional meaning of marriage.
They support civil union equality but do not support changing the meaning
and definition of marriage. This is a new change in thinking,
why support has dropped for gay marriage since 2011.

Do you realize how crazy you sound?

There is no such movement. Maybe a few people who say things to make them feel good about their disdain and ignorance toward the gay population.

A 5 month trend is a joke "since 2011" in that it dropped a couple percentage points, likely within the margin of error. Look at support since 1996.... and the trend over the past 15 years, which is a heartbeat in time when dealing with the "Thousands of Years" this precious word of marriage has been around.
Still though you put it to a vote in the bible belt, calling it whatever you want and it will get denied. Soon though. The "movement" as you call it is going toward gay marriage. before long it will be a reality. Ignorance usually gets stamped out over time.

Godfather.

soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.


Godfather.

MayDay10

Godfather. wrote:

soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.


Godfather.

at least you stand up, and just come out with it and dont hide behind a bunch of nonsensical, contradictory posts

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

and i quote you again pandora..

i am also for equal rights for all and am very fine with marriage remaining as it was intended to be between a man and a woman ...

why is it you cant admit what youve written? ive previously stated that we all know youre all for gay marriage. i am agreeing youve said this. we are on the same side with this. but what i am having the problem with, mainly cause you wont clarify it for me, is you personally stating whether or not you support gay marriage using that terminology. not only that but youve previously stated it should be given some glorious spanky new name.. basically anything BUT marrriage... which only gives creedence to what i believe to be the intent of your words. that you personally DO NOT support gays using the term marriage. and having read and re-read the above quote, which are your own words, ive finally figured it out. you dont believe it should be called marriage... and that youre okay with that. you can deny it all you like but your words speak volumes. you really should own your words pandora. it will set you free.

im done with this witness your honor.

I just said I am pro gay marriage using that term but mostly pro civil rights ...
I have also explained why but will again here.

I would be fine with marriage staying between a man and a woman IF it meant
the passing of equal legal rights for gay civil unions NOW .


Yes, as a solution, a new term for gay marriages would be progression and a resolution
in the current and upcoming situation. As we saw in NC more states are going to be passing amendments defining marriage, protecting it for decades in the future.
Many will indeed want to keep marriage a traditional word while gay civil unions
and their equality will not be an issue. That never was for many of these people.
This changes the current situation greatly. This something we are just learning and witnessing.

As I have mentioned numerous times my friends who have had lifetime partners
will not be around decades from now, the equal rights is what they need NOW.

I would like to see the current administration grant them that NOW.

This has been my stance throughout the thread and what surprises me is that many here did not even know of the movement that is growing stronger as we speak to protect the definition of marriage and keep its traditional meaning while removing the civil equality completely from the equation. This will encompass more supporters why giving civil rights NOW is necessary.

what you said pandora, and i quote:

pandora wrote:

...
You also think I am not pro gay marriage wrong again!
I am mostly pro gay rights though.

so then what right/s do you think gays shouldnt have?

what youve been saying all along is that gays should find another word instead of marriage. you seem to think this will facilitate them gaining marriage equality. the point you seem to be missing is that the suggestion of them finding a new word for marriage makes the word marriage the sole dominion of the straights, which in case you havent grasped it makes it exclusionary.. which is not what equaity is about. youve said yes gays should be allowed to marry BUT let them call it something else. this is not equality. youve expended a lot of energy telling us where the 'marriage preservers' stand but have failed to tell us exactly where you stand. i wanted a simple answer to a simple question and you have failed to deliver that answer. so here it is again..
do you support the use of the word marriage by gays? remember, its a yes or no question. no hiding behind your concern and wishes for your gay friends or what the 'marriage preservers' want.

catefrances

Godfather. wrote:

soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.


Godfather.

oh godfather. im not fighting with pandora. im trying to get an answer from her that she seems incapable of giving. do you think id continue my line of posting if pandora had simply come out with a clear concise answer to my queries? she may think im picking on her or getting personal but thats not what im doing. im seeking answers... well actually only one answer and if she or anyone else could show me where shes provided that answer clearly then ill be more than happy to let it rest.

redrock

MayDay10 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.


Godfather.

at least you stand up, and just come out with it and dont hide behind a bunch of nonsensical, contradictory posts

Agree Mayday

Godfather, having one 'ceremony' with one name (and rights) will certainly make it inclusive. It will not change people's mind if they don't agree with same sex marriage (or any type of same sex relationship) but at least, it does present some unity from a more human perspective, confirming were are 'one people', regardless of preferences.

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

there are many joining with the vote
only to protect the traditional meaning of marriage.

I still don't understand how allowing other people to marry affects one's personal experience with their own marriage. I'm utterly baffled and confused. I mean, seriously consider if the laws in your state were changed today and gay marriage was suddenly recognized, it wouldnt change your marriage one bit. Zero. (speaking generally, not directly at you Pandora).

The motivation for banning gay marriage is transparent, it might be some 'marriage preservers', but for the most part its people who are fearful of change combined with some who simply discriminate.

And MayDay is right, the overall trends are showing that gay marriage is gaining support.

redrock

JonnyPistachio wrote:

'marriage preservers'.

Who coined this 'marriage preserver' thing? The people who are against same sex marriage, labeling/identifying themselves as a group/movement? Or was it the press? Politicians? A term 'invented' on this board? Just curious.

MayDay10

redrock wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

'marriage preservers'.

Who coined this 'marriage preserver' thing? The people who are against same sex marriage, labeling/identifying themselves as a group/movement? Or was it the press? Politicians? A term 'invented' on this board? Just curious.

I think it was made up here. I tried googling it and all that comes up are Divorce-related links and this thread.


I have heard a couple people say before (on other message boards) that they would never want it called marriage. They believe that "marriage" is a religious term.
But then if you cut down into it, they really prefer that the gay community to get no rights, civil unions, marriages, call it whatever.

gimmesometruth27

"marriage presevers".....sounds like the modern day knights templar...



:fp: