Message from UPS to our European Super Deluxe Customers

pdalowsky

Pegasus wrote:

jmk wrote:

Pegasus wrote:

for the 10 billionth time :roll: : the VAT is calculated upon item + shipping.
So it'll NEVER be only on $100...at BEST it'll be on $150...but you can't prove the $50 (which is a brokered rate, not the full one you'd pay yourself and why they might estimate higher postage) without showing them the $140.
And the fact the exchange rate changed between time of purchase and delivery is also irrelevant to customs (UPS doesn't decide it, the rate is fixed by customs, for whole weeks or even month at a time)

I do know that according to law the VAT is calculated upon item+sipping, but has anyone officially (like Santos L Halper) said that we can forget about the $100 and use the $190 instead? And didn't Surfanddestroy write that "According to customs they can only calculate the charge by what has been declared $100."

When I spoke to UPS last Friday they told me that the value reported from Ten Club was $100 (as SLH did in the beginning of this thread), but has the "UPS/Ten Club mail exchange" led to the fact that UPS will now adjust all taxes according to the value of $190 and we will all have bills in our mail with the adjusted VATs?

As there was no value written on the box and no paper inside stating the real value, the only way is that UPS has changed the value they tell the customs/(or if they do the paperwork themselves at the customs) from $100 to $190.

With this big mess we can start speculating on the consequences of this what comes to Ten Clubs future deliveries of Pearl Jam goods.

a) I believe they might consider another partner than UPS

b) We can speculate what they do with the value printed on the box (if printed at all) or declared to the delivery firm. If UPS handles the customs clearance how was it possible that this real value came to their knowledge. I believe it's more a thing that the people at the customs would be interested in.

Why don't we ask Ten Club to next time declare a value of say $55 for a super deluxe set and we all keep quiet about it, so that we Europeans can have it a bit cheaper and won't have to pay VAT .

Yes and we do want the box and the shipping much cheaper next time, so we all don't go and by it somewhere else...

the postage won't be cheaper for something this size. point. there's actually a possibility that 10c is subsidising it at $50. And you'd have the exact same problem with any of the courier (and no courier is a very risky proposition for 10c re insurance for something this expensive, plus most countries would have fees on regular mail anyway, as I showed you).
You're asking 10c to lie (technically they're probably not exactly lying with $100 as it's likely the cost of the boxset TO THEM and could plead ignorance on that basis, though it's meant to be the amount paid by the customer, but anything low enough to not get taxed would be a blatant lie and one very likely to get spotted..) which could lend them, or you, in trouble.

for those reasons I have and will buy that type of items from somewhere else.

oh give over with tenclub subsidising post....thats just plain crazy - 10club will have got a deal on this....for sure.

And why else would they not disclose the shipping costs on the box.

You've made some very relevant and very good comments throughout this thread as many people got heated about the whole spectacle, and you have posted very intelligently up to now...but if you really think they will have subsidised postage....then...well...

Fifthelement

jmk wrote:

I do know that according to law the VAT is calculated upon item+sipping, but has anyone officially (like Santos L Halper) said that we can forget about the $100 and use the $190 instead? And didn't Surfanddestroy write that "According to customs they can only calculate the charge by what has been declared $100."

When I spoke to UPS last Friday they told me that the value reported from Ten Club was $100 (as SLH did in the beginning of this thread), but has the "UPS/Ten Club mail exchange" led to the fact that UPS will now adjust all taxes according to the value of $190 and we will all have bills in our mail with the adjusted VATs?

As there was no value written on the box and no paper inside stating the real value, the only way is that UPS has changed the value they tell the customs/(or if they do the paperwork themselves at the customs) from $100 to $190.

With this big mess we can start speculating on the consequences of this what comes to Ten Clubs future deliveries of Pearl Jam goods.

a) I believe they might consider another partner than UPS

b) We can speculate what they do with the value printed on the box (if printed at all) or declared to the delivery firm. If UPS handles the customs clearance how was it possible that this real value came to their knowledge. I believe it's more a thing that the people at the customs would be interested in.

Why don't we ask Ten Club to next time declare a value of say $55 for a super deluxe set and we all keep quiet about it, so that we Europeans can have it a bit cheaper and won't have to pay VAT .

Yes and we do want the box and the shipping much cheaper next time, so we all don't go and by it somewhere else...

If anyone at UPS bothered to check this board, they would definitely know by now how much the SDE cost. Hell, all they'd have/had to do was go to the Goods section :?

Pegasus

pdalowsky wrote:

oh give over with tenclub subsidising post....thats just plain crazy - 10club will have got a deal on this....for sure.

And why else would they not disclose the shipping costs on the box.

You've made some very relevant and very good comments throughout this thread as many people got heated about the whole spectacle, and you have posted very intelligently up to now...but if you really think they will have subsidised postage....then...well...

I don't say for sure they have but it'd not be that far fetched considering the weight of the SDE.

If you look at what UPS would charge you for the same package, it's nearly 3 times that, at least.
Of course 10c would have used a broker and got it for much cheaper, but it might not be as cheap as $50.
I don't know for sure, but having just had a look at a DVD retailer I used in the past for comparison (they do lots of their business with overseas, have brokered shipping and I know not making profit on it (sort of knew the owner)), it seems UPS is actually the most expensive of the couriers and they list a base cost of at least $60 to UK or Oz, even more for many other European countries (plus weight extra that'd add at least $30 for the SDE). Non-courier is not comparable because the weight of the SDE pushes it in another category than what the max DVD package could reach of about 3lbls (check on USPS if you don't believe me.)

Why 10c chose to use them rather than DHL or Fedex I don't know otoh (though it would be close to $50 even then). there might be advantageous we don't know about.
DHL in particular seem much cheaper and would have been better for us re clearance fees, in the UK at least as they charge non-business only £1.25 or 2% of the shipment value (though I couldn't find any info on their clearance fees in Portugal or Greece, who were the hardest hit, so they might be much higher there).
Still would have had to pay VAT no matter who they shipped it with though.

I think it's not insane at all and I certainly don't think the made a profit on postage overall for all international customers.

pdalowsky

Pegasus wrote:

pdalowsky wrote:

oh give over with tenclub subsidising post....thats just plain crazy - 10club will have got a deal on this....for sure.

And why else would they not disclose the shipping costs on the box.

You've made some very relevant and very good comments throughout this thread as many people got heated about the whole spectacle, and you have posted very intelligently up to now...but if you really think they will have subsidised postage....then...well...

I don't say for sure they have but it'd not be that far fetched considering the weight of the SDE.

If you look at what UPS would charge you for the same package, it's nearly 3 times that, at least.
Of course 10c would have used a broker and got it for much cheaper, but it might not be as cheap as $50.
I don't know for sure, but having just had a look at a DVD retailer I used in the past for comparison (they do lots of their business with overseas, have brokered shipping and I know not making profit on it (sort of knew the owner)), it seems UPS is actually the most expensive of the couriers and they list a base cost of at least $60 to UK or Oz, even more for many other European countries (plus weight extra that'd add at least $30 for the SDE). Non-courier is not comparable because the weight of the SDE pushes it in another category than what the max DVD package could reach of about 3lbls (check on USPS if you don't believe me.)

Why 10c chose to use them rather than DHL or Fedex I don't know otoh (though it would be close to $50 even then). there might be advantageous we don't know about.
DHL in particular seem much cheaper and would have been better for us re clearance fees, in the UK at least as they charge non-business only £1.25 or 2% of the shipment value (though I couldn't find any info on their clearance fees in Portugal or Greece, who were the hardest hit, so they might be much higher there).
Still would have had to pay VAT no matter who they shipped it with though.

I think it's not insane at all and I certainly don't think the made a profit on postage overall for all international customers.

interestingly they are now using DHL..

I'm pretty certain the shipping wouldnt have been $50 still. I asked for a break down and didnt get one, I asked for what it covered, no reply, I asked if it really cost $50 - no reply. I didnt ask in a whining sense either, i just asked for some transparency to stop these threads and bring a bit of sunshine back....but no reply. hmmmm

redrock

pdalowsky wrote:

I'm pretty certain the shipping wouldnt have been $50 still.

You also have to remember that 'shipping' is usually not just the 'getting the package to the customer' part (ie mailing). It also includes the packing, paying for the staff to pick and prepare the goods, etc. (just like all other business that ship goods). I am not suprised that, again as a business, 10C do not give a breakdown of these costs - no one does.

rhinosaur

Now I am a really confused and unhappy bunny. I have just been informed by the UPS Portugal that they were instructed by the sender to return the merchandise. They are only waiting for clearance from the customs authority to proceed with the return.

I never told UPS I wanted to refuse the delivery -- I just told them I refused until the overcharging problem was sorted out -- and was starting to see the end of this! And now, Ten Club instructed them to return the package.

Did this happen to anyone else?

redrock

rhinosaur wrote:

Now I am a really confused and unhappy bunny. I have just been informed by the UPS Portugal that they were instructed by the sender to return the merchandise. They are only waiting for clearance from the customs authority to proceed with the return.

I never told UPS I wanted to refuse the delivery -- I just told them I refused until the overcharging problem was sorted out -- and was starting to see the end of this! And now, Ten Club instructed them to return the package.

Did this happen to anyone else?

I guess 10C were reading all these threads and posts about people saying they wanted 10C to take the goods back, refund them so they could buy it 'MUCH' cheaper at a local shop or amazon.... Everyone was bitching about how they would not pay UPS (rightly so) and refuse the package.

So I guess 10C listened and instructed UPS to return the packages.......

dimitrispearljam

hi . yesterday,i receive from the thiefs ups the 2 boxes....they ask me 245 euros more(340$),,and in the phone say one day before 195 euros,,..so 330 $ more,,and you know what? when i open i was so dissapoint and sad of all this mess so i didnt see it all..a say what the fuck and i put it in the box again,,all the joy and happiness and enthousiasm,,just had left

dimitrispearljam

redrock wrote:

rhinosaur wrote:

Now I am a really confused and unhappy bunny. I have just been informed by the UPS Portugal that they were instructed by the sender to return the merchandise. They are only waiting for clearance from the customs authority to proceed with the return.

I never told UPS I wanted to refuse the delivery -- I just told them I refused until the overcharging problem was sorted out -- and was starting to see the end of this! And now, Ten Club instructed them to return the package.

Did this happen to anyone else?

I guess 10C were reading all these threads and posts about people saying they wanted 10C to take the goods back, refund them so they could buy it 'MUCH' cheaper at a local shop or amazon.... Everyone was bitching about how they would not pay UPS (rightly so) and refuse the package.

So I guess 10C listened and instructed UPS to return the packages.......

To the Ten Club members in the European Union who have ordered the Ten Super Deluxe Package:

Please go ahead and accept delivery of your shipment after reading this statement in its entirety. UPS will provide adjustment credits to the appropriate UPS-related clearance fees after delivery. Note that Duty, VAT or other governmental charges are based on the laws of your country and UPS does not have the authority to refund those charges.

We will continue to update you via email and TenClub.net

Thank you for your understanding.


this the latest they post..so we that we follow orders and accept the delivery pay 330$ extra we are the fools in the history,,and ups say that the make clearance and give money back,except the taxis,,,will do it how?and when?,the ups office in greece when i say that they stat to laugh,and when i say why,they respond,,what happen now its over,,and that im done and hung up the phone in my face,,

damnaxe

CR65191 wrote:

Refused the package and got a full refund. Thanks 10c.
Gonna buy it in local store. End of story for me.

also refused the packeage and got a full refund today. thanks 10c
but ups tried again to deliver it on friday. i was not home to tell them what happened. but wrote mr vickerman that i will not accept the package.

lets see what happens on monday......

rhinosaur

redrock wrote:

rhinosaur wrote:

Now I am a really confused and unhappy bunny. I have just been informed by the UPS Portugal that they were instructed by the sender to return the merchandise. They are only waiting for clearance from the customs authority to proceed with the return.

I never told UPS I wanted to refuse the delivery -- I just told them I refused until the overcharging problem was sorted out -- and was starting to see the end of this! And now, Ten Club instructed them to return the package.

Did this happen to anyone else?

I guess 10C were reading all these threads and posts about people saying they wanted 10C to take the goods back, refund them so they could buy it 'MUCH' cheaper at a local shop or amazon.... Everyone was bitching about how they would not pay UPS (rightly so) and refuse the package.

So I guess 10C listened and instructed UPS to return the packages.......

You forgot about a small detail: informing the customer about that intention! Even if returning it is the right thing to do...

redrock

rhinosaur wrote:

redrock wrote:

rhinosaur wrote:

Now I am a really confused and unhappy bunny. I have just been informed by the UPS Portugal that they were instructed by the sender to return the merchandise. They are only waiting for clearance from the customs authority to proceed with the return.

I never told UPS I wanted to refuse the delivery -- I just told them I refused until the overcharging problem was sorted out -- and was starting to see the end of this! And now, Ten Club instructed them to return the package.

Did this happen to anyone else?

I guess 10C were reading all these threads and posts about people saying they wanted 10C to take the goods back, refund them so they could buy it 'MUCH' cheaper at a local shop or amazon.... Everyone was bitching about how they would not pay UPS (rightly so) and refuse the package.

So I guess 10C listened and instructed UPS to return the packages.......

You forgot about a small detail: informing the customer about that intention! Even if returning it is the right thing to do...

But you refused to take the delivery... I guess for UPS that means 'return to sender'. What else did you expect? The guy delivering won't put on his bit of paper 'refuses until things are sorted', he really doesn't give a shit. There's probably just a little tick box 'refused' - he did his job, he's not bothered with details.

rhinosaur

redrock wrote:

But you refused to take the delivery... I guess for UPS that means 'return to sender'. What else did you expect? The guy delivering won't put on his bit of paper 'refuses until things are sorted', he really doesn't give a shit. There's probably just a little tick box 'refused' - he did his job, he's not bothered with details.

Don't talk so presumptuously when you don't know the details.

I was contacting UPS daily in order to receive the parcel and they were telling me "the sender has been instructing us to change the status of the delivery to 'free delivery status' for other customers, and that is what is probably going to happen in your case but we need to receive that instruction for your merchandise in order to deliver it to you free of charges. Until then we will hold it for you". And then, a few hours later, they sent me an e-mail stating "we have just been instructed by the sender to return the merchandise".

I did refuse the delivery but only as per the UPS account manager's instructions (read SLH's post at the beginning of this thread) and had already contacted UPS in order to pay what was due and accept partial credit for the excess fees.

Now that you know the details, what do you have to say?

redrock

rhinosaur wrote:

I did refuse the delivery but only as per the UPS account manager's instructions

Now that you know the details, what do you have to say?

That probably your refusal was logged in the system - that got the ball rolling - and 10C were informed of it and was getting their stuff back for a full refund.

rhinosaur

redrock wrote:

rhinosaur wrote:

I did refuse the delivery but only as per the UPS account manager's instructions

Now that you know the details, what do you have to say?

That probably your refusal was logged in the system - that got the ball rolling - and 10C were informed of it....

Yeah, but it was 10C who told us to refuse it in the first place, until they sorted things out with UPS. And a lot of people refused it and eventually received it. Mine was returned specifically under 10C's instructions and I still haven't got any refund in the credit card statement... :(

redrock

Probably waiting for their goods to be on the way before refunding. Did you e-mail the 10C at any time? You're dealing with a big corporation in UPS. I've read posts of others that have refused and got a refund. Others had re-deliveries and paid the fees.

rhinosaur

redrock wrote:

Probably waiting for their goods to be on the way before refunding. Did you e-mail the 10C at any time?

I asked for their help immediately after I received confirmation from UPS Portugal that they (10C) had asked for the package to be returned to sender. I sent the e-mail last friday but they haven't replied yet. I am hoping for an answer tomorrow...

jmk

rhinosaur wrote:

redrock wrote:

Probably waiting for their goods to be on the way before refunding. Did you e-mail the 10C at any time?

I asked for their help immediately after I received confirmation from UPS Portugal that they (10C) had asked for the package to be returned to sender. I sent the e-mail last friday but they haven't replied yet. I am hoping for an answer tomorrow...

I got a set with the redux LP having white surface marks and severe surface noise on the beginning of the B-side and I'm returning the whole set. They agreed to a return and a full refund and they gave me the return address on Friday but haven't answered to my e-mails since, so I guess they're back on Monday.

Does anyone know how Ten Club arrange returns? Should I use UPS and can I tell UPS that Ten Club pays for the return?

cclayes

UPS forgot to charge me for my box set when they dropped it at my folks place in Perth. "Unfortunately" i stay in Glasgow and they have twice visited to get payment in Perth although thay have been told i dont stay there. They have said i can call them to make the payment...

Not a chance!!!

Good luck to UPS finding me!

dimitrispearljam

cclayes wrote:

UPS forgot to charge me for my box set when they dropped it at my folks place in Perth. "Unfortunately" i stay in Glasgow and they have twice visited to get payment in Perth although thay have been told i dont stay there. They have said i can call them to make the payment...

Not a chance!!!

Good luck to UPS finding me!

you are the best!!!!!!!!!take the revenge we deserve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!