I would never give up on the eagles. And i wouldnt be suprised if they went on a run like last year. But i do think its time for change and there are many good coaches sitting out there at the moment. Andy Reid is a damn good coach but his way wins games not titles. D-Mac is the greatest Eagles qb ever but he wins games not titles. And i know u have to win games to even sniff a title but its the same story with the same ending. I will root for this team like they are 9-0 but in my opinion think that even if they make a run and make it to the superbowl next year change is needed.
No never gave up u have the wrong person buddy. nice try though. I might believe that these 2 can't win us a superbowl but never ever gave up. And just because i think they can't win us a bowl dosen't mean I'm right.
never have i understand the age old argument of "you cannot win a championship with so and so."
if that's what you believe, then what's the point in watching anyway if you are so convinced the ultimate goal will never happen? makes no sense to me.
If that was the case there would be 5 people watching. I have come to this point after years and years,but hope i'm wrong. I don't have a crystal ball just an opinion of a fan who has been with this team my whole life. I love the birds and will always support all my teams,if they shock the world ill be right there cheering them on. If they come up short ill still wear my eagles gear. Go Birds
never have i understand the age old argument of "you cannot win a championship with so and so."
if that's what you believe, then what's the point in watching anyway if you are so convinced the ultimate goal will never happen? makes no sense to me.
If that was the case there would be 5 people watching. I have come to this point after years and years,but hope i'm wrong. I don't have a crystal ball just an opinion of a fan who has been with this team my whole life. I love the birds and will always support all my teams,if they shock the world ill be right there cheering them on. If they come up short ill still wear my eagles gear. Go Birds
i dunno man...i've seen waaay too many bad eagles teams (and just bad teams in all sports in this town) over the last 30 years to feel like you do about a team that gives you a legit shot at winning it year in, year out.
it's the same old story about philly fans not appreciating what they have until it's gone.
might as well enjoy it. this is our best team since '04 and i think we'll be even better next year...
I agree with The Jeagler. It is why I get so frustrated sometimes reading and hearing all the negativity about the Eagles and Reid and McNabb in particular. I lived through the Marion Campbell and Rich Kotite years and it was horrible. Yes it sucks that Reid and McNabb haven't won a title yet, but the run they have been on here is something that should be a hell of a lot more appreciated than it is. They both just win games year in and year out. I honestly believe we are going to win one in the next few years with these 2. With the young talent on offense, still a great QB there is no reason why it can't happen. It is much easier to be 7-9 or worse consistently in the NFL than being between 9-7 and 11-5 every year like Reid and McNabb have given us.
ANDY REID = GREATEST EAGLES COACH EVER
DONOVAN MCNABB=GREATEST EAGLES QB EVER AND HOF IMO.
Now i agree this run has been great and have enjoyed watching a good product for years. I too remember the bad seasons and they sucked. And i would hope for nothing more then a superbowl for Reid and Mcnabb. I know the grass isn't always greener on the otherside. I have far from giving up on this season,but i feel like this is the same movie i've seen like 6 times now and stupid me keeps hoping that for a different ending when i own the dvd. Jeagler and hawks i HOPE your right trust me,until last year i would have never actually thought like this but sometimes 2nd place is as good as u can get.
ANDY REID = GREATEST EAGLES COACH EVER
DONOVAN MCNABB=GREATEST EAGLES QB EVER AND HOF IMO.
Now i agree this run has been great and have enjoyed watching a good product for years. I too remember the bad seasons and they sucked. And i would hope for nothing more then a superbowl for Reid and Mcnabb. I know the grass isn't always greener on the otherside. I have far from giving up on this season,but i feel like this is the same movie i've seen like 6 times now and stupid me keeps hoping that for a different ending when i own the dvd. Jeagler and hawks i HOPE your right trust me,until last year i would have never actually thought like this but sometimes 2nd place is as good as u can get.
don't you see lots of hope in the young offensive talent though? as good as the previous 10 years have been they've never had this amount of good young players on offense. It was pretty much Westbrook alone for so many years except for 1 year with TO. This receiving core has a real good chance of being the best in the league down in a year or two.
ANDY REID = GREATEST EAGLES COACH EVER
DONOVAN MCNABB=GREATEST EAGLES QB EVER AND HOF IMO.
Now i agree this run has been great and have enjoyed watching a good product for years. I too remember the bad seasons and they sucked. And i would hope for nothing more then a superbowl for Reid and Mcnabb. I know the grass isn't always greener on the otherside. I have far from giving up on this season,but i feel like this is the same movie i've seen like 6 times now and stupid me keeps hoping that for a different ending when i own the dvd. Jeagler and hawks i HOPE your right trust me,until last year i would have never actually thought like this but sometimes 2nd place is as good as u can get.
don't you see lots of hope in the young offensive talent though? as good as the previous 10 years have been they've never had this amount of good young players on offense. It was pretty much Westbrook alone for so many years except for 1 year with TO. This receiving core has a real good chance of being the best in the league down in a year or two.
Yeah i love d-jack maclin,shady, celek and avant. I like our Def alot as well and think this team has a real chance of being super bowl contenders for years. But i also think that kolb showed alot of character in his 2 starts and think that a fresh start at that possesion is needed. D-mac is a pro bowl qb almost every year but believe he wants out as well. Hell i'd give them both next year if needed but i truly believe in my heart that we need change(qb) especially with all the young talent we have.
so right when these young bucks are turning into stars on offense, you want to get rid of someone you consider to be a future hall of famer for a guy who had a good game against the chiefs back in september?
that does not make any sense to me. donny mac has been asking for weapons his whole career. he's finally got them. this is the most talented offense he has ever played with. and he's having one of his best seasons.
looks d jack will be on the field next week. we're gonna need him. i think this is gonna be a tough one for us.
i see us going 3-1 the rest of the way. wouldn't surprise me if this is our loss. not that the ginas are better, it would just be a season split which is what i thought coming in.
if we win though...i think a lot of people riding the fence with this squad will jump in with both feet...
Eagles signed head coach Andy Reid to a three-year extension through 2013.
Reid, 51, has never won a Super Bowl, but has the highest regular season win percentage (.614) and most wins (105) in franchise history. While some fans are frustrated with Reid's playcalling and time management, it's a good extension. "Big Red" has kept the Eagles in contention since taking over in 1999.
Source: Jay Glazer on Twitte
yeah...reid will be here 4 more years. i would like to see them extend donny out after the season too.
gotta get better in the redzone. i would like to see them utilize vick a little more down there like they did on his running touchdown sunday. domo's article:
Paul Domowitch: Eagles offense must respond to red alert
POSTED: December 9, 2009 By Paul Domowitch
FOUR TIMES in their first five possessions Sunday, the Eagles found themselves inside the Atlanta 20-yard line.
In a perfect world, they would have walked away from those four red-zone trips with 28 points in their pocket. But the Eagles' red-zone offense has been anything but perfect this season.
They found the end zone just once on those four possessions, and shot themselves in the foot on the other three. On one, wide receiver Reggie Brown dropped a third-down pass from Donovan McNabb that would have given the Eagles a first down at the 10.
On another, tight end Alex Smith was flagged for a false-start penalty on a third-and-1. On the third one, a 15-yard scoring pass from McNabb to wide receiver Jason Avant was wiped out by a hands-to-the-face penalty on right guard Max Jean-Gilles.
Instead of 28 points, the Eagles had to settle for 13, which turned out to be no big deal against the fallen-and-can't-get-up Falcons, but could be a big deal this week against the Giants, or the week after that against the 49ers, or in January against a playoff opponent to be determined.
"As you go down the stretch, you've got to get touchdowns instead of field goals in the red zone," coach Andy Reid said. "That's the bottom line.
"You shoot yourself in the foot, you're not going to come out in the place you want to come out. We have to get that changed around."
The Eagles currently are 23rd in the league in red-zone production. They've converted just 17 of 36 trips inside their opponents' 20, or 47.2 percent, into touchdowns. In their last eight games, they're 10-for-24 (41.7).
Those of you who view the Eagles through rose-colored glasses will point out that despite their red-zone struggles, they still have won eight of 12 games and are tied for first place in the NFC East. You probably also will mention that they finished 22nd in red-zone offense last year (49.2 percent) and still managed to make it to the NFC Championship Game for the fifth time in 8 years.
While that's true, there's one significant difference between last year's Eagles and this year's. Last year, they had a healthy defense that finished fourth in the league in points allowed and gave up just 12.1 points per game in the seven games leading up to their NFC title-game loss to Arizona.
This year, the defense hasn't been healthy. Starters and key role players have missed more than 30 games due to injuries. Through 12 games, the Eagles are 13th in points allowed, even after holding the Falcons to seven points.
Bottom line: The offense absolutely, positively has to get better in the red zone or the Eagles can kiss their Super Bowl hopes goodbye.
The popular perception is that the Eagles never have been very good in the red zone. But that's not true. They haven't been very good inside the 20 the last three seasons (71-150, or 47.3 percent since '07). But before that, they actually were one of the league's better red-zone teams.
In the seven seasons from 2000 through 2006, the Eagles finished lower than 13th in red-zone offense just once (24th in '02). They finished third twice ('03 and '04), seventh (in '01), 10th ('06), 12th ('05) and 13th ('00). They were successful in the red zone when they had James Thrash playing wide receiver, and they were successful in the red zone when they had Terrell Owens. So why are they so bad in there now despite a receiving corps that is the best of the Reid era?
The good news for the Eagles is that most of their red-zone problems appear correctable. As was the case Sunday against the Falcons, they have stopped themselves inside the 20 more than they've been stopped by the other team. Penalties, dropped passes and poor execution have kept them out of the end zone more than anything else.
In their 27-24 win over the Redskins 2 weeks ago, they had a touchdown pass negated by an offensive pass interference call on tight end Brent Celek. A false-start penalty on right tackle Winston Justice on a third-and-5 at the 5 stalled another drive.
In their first game against the Giants, they had a McNabb touchdown pass to Celek wiped out by a holding penalty on left tackle Jason Peters. On another red-zone opportunity, the Eagles' offensive line let the Giants bat away two straight passes.
McNabb is having one of his better seasons. His 94.7 passer rating is the third highest of his career. His .610 completion percentage also is the third highest of his career. He's on pace to throw 20 TD passes for just the fifth time.
He's thrown just six interceptions, none in the red zone. But his red-zone completion percentage is poor. He's completed only 15 of 37 passes in the red zone in nine starts. Kevin Kolb is 9-for-19 in the red zone.
Wide receiver DeSean Jackson is one of the league's most dangerous big-play receivers. But he has been invisible this season in the red zone. While he's passed through it quite a bit on the way to six touchdown catches, not one of his 44 receptions has come inside the red zone.
Celek and Avant have been the Eagles' most productive red-zone receivers. Both have nine receptions. Five of Celek's red-zone catches have been for touchdowns and two of Avant's.
History says the line of demarcation for red-zone production as far as making it to the Super Bowl is 50 percent. Fourteen of the last 20 Super Bowl participants converted at least half of their trips inside the 20 into touchdowns.
The other six had dominant defenses that were able to compensate for their offense's red-zone failings. Five of those six finished in the top three in points allowed the season they went to the Super Bowl. The sixth, the '03 Panthers, finished 10th.
"[Our red-zone offense] is a concern," Reid said. "It's something we'll address and continue to address until we get it right. It's a concern."
Reid has built this franchise up from the ground level. he got here and the team sucked. he has had 2 losing seasons since he's been here (his first and the 2005 injury year). he is a great coach...top 3 in the NFL
reid isn't the problem. he has proven his system works with turds under center (feeley, garcia, feeley again...hell reid even made koy detmer a serviceable backup...neck beard and all). before he got to philly he proved his worth grooming qbs...hasselback, brunell, favre, etc.
reid is not the problem...mcnabb is
I used to defend mcnabb...thought people were running him out of town after the super bowl. I didn't buy it...he was one of the top QBs and I thought he'd eventually win the big one. the NFC championship last year changed my mind.
There were dudes open the ENTIRE GAME. The eagles defense played like shit (allowing 24 points in first half...if anything jim johnson is as much to blame as mcnabb...he got SCHOOLED by haley), so it's not entirely mcnabbs fault...but in big, pressure games the same story presents itself all too often. mcnabb sucks at the start of games, his team falls behind big, he looks great in the middle of the game, then at the end he gets the ball back with a chance to win or tie and shits himself (just look at the way kolb ran the 2:00 offense at the end of the 1st half vs new orleans and KC...it's not that hard, but mcnabb has always sucked at it).
when the birds got the ball back, 2 minutes left -- down 7, I knew the game was over. mcnabb doesn't have that winning gene. some athletes have it, most don't (utley, rollins, dawkins have it...mcnabb, abreu, wagner don't have it...those dudes pee sitting down). that go for the throat, balls to the wall mentality that it takes to win a championship. mcnabb doesn't have that gene, so he will never win a title. he is too paranoid to make a mistake in a big spot, which makes him more prone to make said mistake.
I like the guy, so it will be sad to see him leave. he was a great player and great representative for the team and city over the last decade. It sucks, but he just isn't the guy. Reid has proven he can win with scrubs at the QB position and mcnabb has proven he can't win the big game. it is time for a change.
reid stays, mcnabb leaves...that's my wish. my only complaint is that the eagles only extended the coach for 3 years. they should let him coach here until he wants to retire. he's the best thing to ever happen to the eagles.
big game sunday...I would love to see mcnabb get the ball with 2 minutes left on his on 20, down 4...and lead the birds to a GW TD drive. the reality is, it will never happen against a decent team (ie, not the redskins or bears)
the eagles certainly aren't the favorites in the NFC this year...but give me a reid coached team and they will always be a threat to go to, and win, a super bowl. they just need a qb with some stones under center
looks d jack will be on the field next week. we're gonna need him. i think this is gonna be a tough one for us.
i see us going 3-1 the rest of the way. wouldn't surprise me if this is our loss. not that the ginas are better, it would just be a season split which is what i thought coming in.
if we win though...i think a lot of people riding the fence with this squad will jump in with both feet...
GO BIRDS!
eagles have owned the giants lately, but I agree...this week is gonna be tough. giants need the game and the eagels have not exactly been a model of consistency. getting jackson and hanson back will help.
I'm a gambler and as an eagle fan I liked seeing the giants play well last week (not only because I had the ginas)...they played well and I think they will struggle to repeat that performance. They just aren't that good of a squad. if the eagles don't beat themselves (which is a big if), they should win...they are the better team
there are no gimme wins left on the schedule, so every game is huge. ideally they will win the division and lock up the 3 seed so we don't have to see the saints until the NFC champ game...not that I'm looking ahead or anything
eagles fans need to pull for the chargers and 9ers this weekend/monday night
Reid has built this franchise up from the ground level. he got here and the team sucked. he has had 2 losing seasons since he's been here (his first and the 2005 injury year). he is a great coach...top 3 in the NFL
reid isn't the problem. he has proven his system works with turds under center (feeley, garcia, feeley again...hell reid even made koy detmer a serviceable backup...neck beard and all). before he got to philly he proved his worth grooming qbs...hasselback, brunell, favre, etc.
reid is not the problem...mcnabb is
I used to defend mcnabb...thought people were running him out of town after the super bowl. I didn't buy it...he was one of the top QBs and I thought he'd eventually win the big one. the NFC championship last year changed my mind.
There were dudes open the ENTIRE GAME. The eagles defense played like shit (allowing 24 points in first half...if anything jim johnson is as much to blame as mcnabb...he got SCHOOLED by haley), so it's not entirely mcnabbs fault...but in big, pressure games the same story presents itself all too often. mcnabb sucks at the start of games, his team falls behind big, he looks great in the middle of the game, then at the end he gets the ball back with a chance to win or tie and shits himself (just look at the way kolb ran the 2:00 offense at the end of the 1st half vs new orleans and KC...it's not that hard, but mcnabb has always sucked at it).
when the birds got the ball back, 2 minutes left -- down 7, I knew the game was over. mcnabb doesn't have that winning gene. some athletes have it, most don't (utley, rollins, dawkins have it...mcnabb, abreu, wagner don't have it...those dudes pee sitting down). that go for the throat, balls to the wall mentality that it takes to win a championship. mcnabb doesn't have that gene, so he will never win a title. he is too paranoid to make a mistake in a big spot, which makes him more prone to make said mistake.
I like the guy, so it will be sad to see him leave. he was a great player and great representative for the team and city over the last decade. It sucks, but he just isn't the guy. Reid has proven he can win with scrubs at the QB position and mcnabb has proven he can't win the big game. it is time for a change.
reid stays, mcnabb leaves...that's my wish. my only complaint is that the eagles only extended the coach for 3 years. they should let him coach here until he wants to retire. he's the best thing to ever happen to the eagles.
big game sunday...I would love to see mcnabb get the ball with 2 minutes left on his on 20, down 4...and lead the birds to a GW TD drive. the reality is, it will never happen against a decent team (ie, not the redskins or bears)
the eagles certainly aren't the favorites in the NFC this year...but give me a reid coached team and they will always be a threat to go to, and win, a super bowl. they just need a qb with some stones under center
he brought them back from 3 tds to take the lead with 7 minutes to go. not his fault the defense got walked all over for the next 5 minutes and 90 some yards. that was a piss poor effort from everyone, including Saint Dawkins.
you score 30 points or so in a championship game, your defense should be good enough to win. our's wasn't.
alone in first place....and all is right in the world again.
defense--i am thinking this is just one of those games. they were 7th in the league heading into this one. the secondary is great at creating turnovers, but they seem to have great difficulty wrapping people up. i think that can be fixed though.
vick---again, they are finally using him in spots where he can be effective. i honestly think this was reid's plan all along: not showing much during the first part of the season while he plays himself into shape. he's lost 15 pounds and you can tell he's faster. that one play where he got the first down running on the outside, he would have been tackled for a loss in early october.
desean jackson---quite possibly the most exciting player in the league right now.
leonard weaver---if you don't like this guy, you just aren't a football fan.
5---having the best year he's had since '04.
key to the game was the long drive in the 4th quarter after the giants made it a one score game. they ate up about 7 minutes of the clock. donny made a lot of plays happen moving around in the pocket.
i hope maclin is alright. haven't heard an update yet. but reggie brown played well for the 2nd week in a row though.
i'm telling you, i really like the direction this team is headed.
looking forward to my playoff ticket invoice coming in the mail any day now--- :thumbup: :thumbup:
very nice win. both team's defenses were terrible. our secondary's tackling was awful. Looked like Sean Jones bet the Giants on the one touchdown barely waving at the guy.
Offense was tremendous by the Eagles - O-line was darn good for the most part, McNabb, Jackson and Weaver were excellent. thought the blocked extra point was going to haunt us.
Officiating was atrocious for both sides. Missed at least 3 false starts, 2 interferences and no one has yet given me a good reason why the clock running out at the end of the half is un-reviewable. i guess the home team can run out the clock at will at the end of the half - wtf?
Keep the roll going - division is not over yet with still having to play the Cowboys. And I know the Cowboys have sucked in December but I just have this suspicion they end up beating the Saint's next week - just a hunch on my part.
very nice win. both team's defenses were terrible. our secondary's tackling was awful. Looked like Sean Jones bet the Giants on the one touchdown barely waving at the guy.
Offense was tremendous by the Eagles - O-line was darn good for the most part, McNabb, Jackson and Weaver were excellent. thought the blocked extra point was going to haunt us.
Officiating was atrocious for both sides. Missed at least 3 false starts, 2 interferences and no one has yet given me a good reason why the clock running out at the end of the half is un-reviewable. i guess the home team can run out the clock at will at the end of the half - wtf?
Keep the roll going - division is not over yet with still having to play the Cowboys. And I know the Cowboys have sucked in December but I just have this suspicion they end up beating the Saint's next week - just a hunch on my part.
desean jackson is officially the new giant killer.
very nice win. both team's defenses were terrible. our secondary's tackling was awful. Looked like Sean Jones bet the Giants on the one touchdown barely waving at the guy.
Offense was tremendous by the Eagles - O-line was darn good for the most part, McNabb, Jackson and Weaver were excellent. thought the blocked extra point was going to haunt us.
Officiating was atrocious for both sides. Missed at least 3 false starts, 2 interferences and no one has yet given me a good reason why the clock running out at the end of the half is un-reviewable. i guess the home team can run out the clock at will at the end of the half - wtf?
Keep the roll going - division is not over yet with still having to play the Cowboys. And I know the Cowboys have sucked in December but I just have this suspicion they end up beating the Saint's next week - just a hunch on my part.
desean jackson is officially the new giant killer.
That guy is incredible. That punt return - Wow!
Oh and the officiating. This game just proves my point that I don't just bitch about the officials in Cowboys games. Pick a game, any game, and there is some controversy they can't figure out.
desean jackson is officially the new giant killer.
That guy is incredible. That punt return - Wow!
Oh and the officiating. This game just proves my point that I don't just bitch about the officials in Cowboys games. Pick a game, any game, and there is some controversy they can't figure out.
did you see all the confusion in the ravens/lions game? took them about 5 minutes to figure out some meaningless penalty before the raves kicker chip shotted a 20 yarder.
lost in the halladay talk is your first place philadelphia eagles...
would have liked to have seen san fran lose last night. they would have been pretty much eliminated. now they still hold out some hope being 2 games out with 3 to play. their defense is actually pretty decent. but a short week and travelling across the country benefits the birds.
i wish i didnt sell my tickets to this one. the linc's gonna be jumping.
Marcus Hayes: Westbrook ought to go for the ring, then quit
By Marcus Hayes
Philadelphia Daily News
Marcus Hayes
BRIAN WESTBROOK owes you nothing.
He owes nothing to this town, to these teammates, to the franchise that made him rich, because he made it significant.
Still, he should play. He owes that to himself.
Westbrook suffered two concussions in 20 days. He hasn't been hit since the second one, 31 days ago. There's a good chance his brain has healed, though, damningly, he said it hadn't healed after the first one.
Westbrook, perhaps the best running back in Eagles history, should come back, this week or next.
He should conduct a brief farewell tour. He should relieve flagging rookie LeSean McCoy. He should enjoy fresh legs late in a season that matters.
He should risk his health, if he wants, and make this run to the playoffs, and maybe deep into the playoffs, because, at this stage of his career - rich and lauded and beloved - winning a Super Bowl is what he plays for.
He can make a claim for the Hall of Fame, especially if his career is cut short by a concussion demon. He was, for a while, by far the best player on a consistently good team that played in a very tough division.
He has nothing to prove. Nobody who plays in the NFL after falling into Villanova's program needs to prove anything, and Westbrook's two Pro Bowls are a solid indictment of the blue-chip system of recruitment.
He doesn't need to prove to himself or to anyone else that he's tough enough to take a pounding. Clearly, he is not.
Westbrook has missed at least one game every season. He's only 30. Due to make almost $10 million in 2010, which could be a year without a salary cap, Westbrook is certain to be cut by the Eagles after this season. Given his injury history even before the concussions, he would, at best, be a low-money, 1-year risk elsewhere, adding insult to his injuries.
Why bother?
Make a run toward a title this season, then quit.
Quit before the knees and ankles never forgive you, and before the head swims in an agony of pain and confusion.
Successive concussions usually indicate a predisposition to further concussions. Even the NFL's conflicted experts would tell you that.
Dr. Lester Mayers, director of sports medicine at Pace University, would scream it at you.
Actually, Mayers doesn't scream, and he's no crusader. What he would do is sit you down and explain what he contended in his September 2008 minireview of recent concussion studies that appeared in the "Archives of Neurology," an AMA publication:
That any concussed athlete should sit for 4 to 6 weeks, not the usual 1 to 2 weeks.
Boy, Roger and the Goodellians didn't like that.
The report got the NFL so worked up that, in March, its team of experts rebutted his findings, questioning his very definitions, not to mention the validity of the independent studies Mayers cited - while admitting that their criteria were inexact. In their rebuttal, of course, they exclusively cited their own studies.
Ask him, and Mayers would explain it the way he explained it to two of the three multiply concussed Pace football players he counseled to quit the game. After consulting with Mayers' colleague, Boston concussion ace Dr. Robert Cantu, two of them did quit . . . not that they had Westbrook's considerations.
Mayers deals with amateurs, tomorrow's doctors and the lawyers who sue them. His are kids who play sports at a Division II school because it's in their blood, not because it's in their future.
Taking a month-and-a-half off at Pace with one concussion could bore you and tick off the coach. Taking 6 weeks off in the NFL could cost a player his future.
"I realize, if you're making seven figures," Mayers said, "you might not want to give that up."
Mayers, a former internal medicine and pulmonary specialist who became Pace's team doctor as a retirement self-reward, does not pretend to be a neuroscience expert. He is, however, mortified at the NFL's cavalier attitude toward concussions; at the number of players, such as DeSean Jackson, who return after missing just one game, or, such as Panthers cornerback Captain Munnerlyn, who wanted to return Sunday and miss none.
Mayers cites studies that note altered performance in several areas - gait, balance, reactions, metabolic rates - for as many as 30 days after concussions, regardless of severity. Four weeks of healing, and, still, too often, not everything was quite right.
Well, it's been 4 weeks since Westbrook's second ding, and, come Sunday, it will be 5. He spent last week and weekend whipping himself back into shape, free of headache and nausea and, presumably, delighting the medical staff who address his progress only through imperfect mouthpiece Andy Reid, Westbrook's coach and general manager.
Besides, Westbrook has a helmet with extra padding . . . which, apparently, is like wearing a bulletproof vest made of Saran Wrap.
"It's abundantly clear, it's not the helmet that protects you," Mayers said. "I could produce a concussion in you if I simply held your head, moved it, then stopped it suddenly."
That's because, when the skull stops, the brain, sloshing around in a protective jelly, does not stop . . . until it hits the side of the skull. Then, it vibrates.
And there's no such thing as a head-on hit.
"The brain is rotating on itself, and still shaking," Mayers explained. "The shaking is what causes the concussion. It's tearing brain cells."
Mayers certainly doesn't want Westbrook tearing any more brain cells:
"If he was my son, I'd say, 'You were symptomatic for 4 weeks. I don't want you out in leftfield before I die. All it takes is one knee to the head, and you will never be the same.' "
You can't argue with that sort of logic, especially from a respected, published physician who has treated, and studied, 65 concussion victims in the past 11 years.
But you can take a chance.
Westbrook entered the NFL, the most brutal of professional sports, with the full knowledge that his next play - that his first play - could be his last. He played anyway, for love, and glory, and money, and the chance to wear a ring that commands more respect among most Americans than the pope's.
This is probably his last, best chance at that ring.
** EAGLES VS BRONCOS TICKETS AVAILABLE...UNFORTUNATELY I CANNOT ATTEND....12/27 @ 1PM. THE GAME B DAWK RETURNS, ALSO COULD BE THE GAME WE CLINCH THE DIVISION. SECTION 220, ROW 28, SEATS 1 AND 2. LOOKING FOR 300 FOR THE PAIR WHICH IS WAAAAAAY LESS THAN ANYTHING ON STUBHUB. LOOKING TO GET RID OF ASAP. GOOD XMAS GIFT! LET ME KNOW-THANKS! **
Comments
If that was the case there would be 5 people watching. I have come to this point after years and years,but hope i'm wrong. I don't have a crystal ball just an opinion of a fan who has been with this team my whole life. I love the birds and will always support all my teams,if they shock the world ill be right there cheering them on. If they come up short ill still wear my eagles gear. Go Birds
i dunno man...i've seen waaay too many bad eagles teams (and just bad teams in all sports in this town) over the last 30 years to feel like you do about a team that gives you a legit shot at winning it year in, year out.
it's the same old story about philly fans not appreciating what they have until it's gone.
might as well enjoy it. this is our best team since '04 and i think we'll be even better next year...
DONOVAN MCNABB=GREATEST EAGLES QB EVER AND HOF IMO.
Now i agree this run has been great and have enjoyed watching a good product for years. I too remember the bad seasons and they sucked. And i would hope for nothing more then a superbowl for Reid and Mcnabb. I know the grass isn't always greener on the otherside. I have far from giving up on this season,but i feel like this is the same movie i've seen like 6 times now and stupid me keeps hoping that for a different ending when i own the dvd. Jeagler and hawks i HOPE your right trust me,until last year i would have never actually thought like this but sometimes 2nd place is as good as u can get.
don't you see lots of hope in the young offensive talent though? as good as the previous 10 years have been they've never had this amount of good young players on offense. It was pretty much Westbrook alone for so many years except for 1 year with TO. This receiving core has a real good chance of being the best in the league down in a year or two.
that does not make any sense to me. donny mac has been asking for weapons his whole career. he's finally got them. this is the most talented offense he has ever played with. and he's having one of his best seasons.
i say extend him for another 2 or 3 years.
The lean years were terrible but getting close and not winning it all is just as frustrating to me
You hate to see a Coach and QB that have been together for so many years and can't get over the hump it would be nice to finish the deal
Reid is not going anywhere and we really dont know what we have with Kolb so to not resign McNabb could be a disaster as well
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
i see us going 3-1 the rest of the way. wouldn't surprise me if this is our loss. not that the ginas are better, it would just be a season split which is what i thought coming in.
if we win though...i think a lot of people riding the fence with this squad will jump in with both feet...
GO BIRDS!
Reid, 51, has never won a Super Bowl, but has the highest regular season win percentage (.614) and most wins (105) in franchise history. While some fans are frustrated with Reid's playcalling and time management, it's a good extension. "Big Red" has kept the Eagles in contention since taking over in 1999.
Source: Jay Glazer on Twitte
gotta get better in the redzone. i would like to see them utilize vick a little more down there like they did on his running touchdown sunday. domo's article:
Paul Domowitch: Eagles offense must respond to red alert
POSTED: December 9, 2009 By Paul Domowitch
FOUR TIMES in their first five possessions Sunday, the Eagles found themselves inside the Atlanta 20-yard line.
In a perfect world, they would have walked away from those four red-zone trips with 28 points in their pocket. But the Eagles' red-zone offense has been anything but perfect this season.
They found the end zone just once on those four possessions, and shot themselves in the foot on the other three. On one, wide receiver Reggie Brown dropped a third-down pass from Donovan McNabb that would have given the Eagles a first down at the 10.
On another, tight end Alex Smith was flagged for a false-start penalty on a third-and-1. On the third one, a 15-yard scoring pass from McNabb to wide receiver Jason Avant was wiped out by a hands-to-the-face penalty on right guard Max Jean-Gilles.
Instead of 28 points, the Eagles had to settle for 13, which turned out to be no big deal against the fallen-and-can't-get-up Falcons, but could be a big deal this week against the Giants, or the week after that against the 49ers, or in January against a playoff opponent to be determined.
"As you go down the stretch, you've got to get touchdowns instead of field goals in the red zone," coach Andy Reid said. "That's the bottom line.
"You shoot yourself in the foot, you're not going to come out in the place you want to come out. We have to get that changed around."
The Eagles currently are 23rd in the league in red-zone production. They've converted just 17 of 36 trips inside their opponents' 20, or 47.2 percent, into touchdowns. In their last eight games, they're 10-for-24 (41.7).
Those of you who view the Eagles through rose-colored glasses will point out that despite their red-zone struggles, they still have won eight of 12 games and are tied for first place in the NFC East. You probably also will mention that they finished 22nd in red-zone offense last year (49.2 percent) and still managed to make it to the NFC Championship Game for the fifth time in 8 years.
While that's true, there's one significant difference between last year's Eagles and this year's. Last year, they had a healthy defense that finished fourth in the league in points allowed and gave up just 12.1 points per game in the seven games leading up to their NFC title-game loss to Arizona.
This year, the defense hasn't been healthy. Starters and key role players have missed more than 30 games due to injuries. Through 12 games, the Eagles are 13th in points allowed, even after holding the Falcons to seven points.
Bottom line: The offense absolutely, positively has to get better in the red zone or the Eagles can kiss their Super Bowl hopes goodbye.
The popular perception is that the Eagles never have been very good in the red zone. But that's not true. They haven't been very good inside the 20 the last three seasons (71-150, or 47.3 percent since '07). But before that, they actually were one of the league's better red-zone teams.
In the seven seasons from 2000 through 2006, the Eagles finished lower than 13th in red-zone offense just once (24th in '02). They finished third twice ('03 and '04), seventh (in '01), 10th ('06), 12th ('05) and 13th ('00). They were successful in the red zone when they had James Thrash playing wide receiver, and they were successful in the red zone when they had Terrell Owens. So why are they so bad in there now despite a receiving corps that is the best of the Reid era?
The good news for the Eagles is that most of their red-zone problems appear correctable. As was the case Sunday against the Falcons, they have stopped themselves inside the 20 more than they've been stopped by the other team. Penalties, dropped passes and poor execution have kept them out of the end zone more than anything else.
In their 27-24 win over the Redskins 2 weeks ago, they had a touchdown pass negated by an offensive pass interference call on tight end Brent Celek. A false-start penalty on right tackle Winston Justice on a third-and-5 at the 5 stalled another drive.
In their first game against the Giants, they had a McNabb touchdown pass to Celek wiped out by a holding penalty on left tackle Jason Peters. On another red-zone opportunity, the Eagles' offensive line let the Giants bat away two straight passes.
McNabb is having one of his better seasons. His 94.7 passer rating is the third highest of his career. His .610 completion percentage also is the third highest of his career. He's on pace to throw 20 TD passes for just the fifth time.
He's thrown just six interceptions, none in the red zone. But his red-zone completion percentage is poor. He's completed only 15 of 37 passes in the red zone in nine starts. Kevin Kolb is 9-for-19 in the red zone.
Wide receiver DeSean Jackson is one of the league's most dangerous big-play receivers. But he has been invisible this season in the red zone. While he's passed through it quite a bit on the way to six touchdown catches, not one of his 44 receptions has come inside the red zone.
Celek and Avant have been the Eagles' most productive red-zone receivers. Both have nine receptions. Five of Celek's red-zone catches have been for touchdowns and two of Avant's.
History says the line of demarcation for red-zone production as far as making it to the Super Bowl is 50 percent. Fourteen of the last 20 Super Bowl participants converted at least half of their trips inside the 20 into touchdowns.
The other six had dominant defenses that were able to compensate for their offense's red-zone failings. Five of those six finished in the top three in points allowed the season they went to the Super Bowl. The sixth, the '03 Panthers, finished 10th.
"[Our red-zone offense] is a concern," Reid said. "It's something we'll address and continue to address until we get it right. It's a concern."
Reid has built this franchise up from the ground level. he got here and the team sucked. he has had 2 losing seasons since he's been here (his first and the 2005 injury year). he is a great coach...top 3 in the NFL
reid isn't the problem. he has proven his system works with turds under center (feeley, garcia, feeley again...hell reid even made koy detmer a serviceable backup...neck beard and all). before he got to philly he proved his worth grooming qbs...hasselback, brunell, favre, etc.
reid is not the problem...mcnabb is
I used to defend mcnabb...thought people were running him out of town after the super bowl. I didn't buy it...he was one of the top QBs and I thought he'd eventually win the big one. the NFC championship last year changed my mind.
There were dudes open the ENTIRE GAME. The eagles defense played like shit (allowing 24 points in first half...if anything jim johnson is as much to blame as mcnabb...he got SCHOOLED by haley), so it's not entirely mcnabbs fault...but in big, pressure games the same story presents itself all too often. mcnabb sucks at the start of games, his team falls behind big, he looks great in the middle of the game, then at the end he gets the ball back with a chance to win or tie and shits himself (just look at the way kolb ran the 2:00 offense at the end of the 1st half vs new orleans and KC...it's not that hard, but mcnabb has always sucked at it).
when the birds got the ball back, 2 minutes left -- down 7, I knew the game was over. mcnabb doesn't have that winning gene. some athletes have it, most don't (utley, rollins, dawkins have it...mcnabb, abreu, wagner don't have it...those dudes pee sitting down). that go for the throat, balls to the wall mentality that it takes to win a championship. mcnabb doesn't have that gene, so he will never win a title. he is too paranoid to make a mistake in a big spot, which makes him more prone to make said mistake.
I like the guy, so it will be sad to see him leave. he was a great player and great representative for the team and city over the last decade. It sucks, but he just isn't the guy. Reid has proven he can win with scrubs at the QB position and mcnabb has proven he can't win the big game. it is time for a change.
reid stays, mcnabb leaves...that's my wish. my only complaint is that the eagles only extended the coach for 3 years. they should let him coach here until he wants to retire. he's the best thing to ever happen to the eagles.
big game sunday...I would love to see mcnabb get the ball with 2 minutes left on his on 20, down 4...and lead the birds to a GW TD drive. the reality is, it will never happen against a decent team (ie, not the redskins or bears)
the eagles certainly aren't the favorites in the NFC this year...but give me a reid coached team and they will always be a threat to go to, and win, a super bowl. they just need a qb with some stones under center
he brought them back from 3 tds to take the lead with 7 minutes to go. not his fault the defense got walked all over for the next 5 minutes and 90 some yards. that was a piss poor effort from everyone, including Saint Dawkins.
you score 30 points or so in a championship game, your defense should be good enough to win. our's wasn't.
GO BIRDS!
1st place on the line and nobody else is hyped up....c'mon people. where you at?!
Watching ACL and just to the point of Porch in perfect timing before kickoff......1, 2, 3, 4......
.........LET'S GO BIRDS!!!!!
D better wake up !!
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
Sssssssssmmmmmmmmoked 'em!!!
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
defense--i am thinking this is just one of those games. they were 7th in the league heading into this one. the secondary is great at creating turnovers, but they seem to have great difficulty wrapping people up. i think that can be fixed though.
vick---again, they are finally using him in spots where he can be effective. i honestly think this was reid's plan all along: not showing much during the first part of the season while he plays himself into shape. he's lost 15 pounds and you can tell he's faster. that one play where he got the first down running on the outside, he would have been tackled for a loss in early october.
desean jackson---quite possibly the most exciting player in the league right now.
leonard weaver---if you don't like this guy, you just aren't a football fan.
5---having the best year he's had since '04.
key to the game was the long drive in the 4th quarter after the giants made it a one score game. they ate up about 7 minutes of the clock. donny made a lot of plays happen moving around in the pocket.
i hope maclin is alright. haven't heard an update yet. but reggie brown played well for the 2nd week in a row though.
i'm telling you, i really like the direction this team is headed.
looking forward to my playoff ticket invoice coming in the mail any day now--- :thumbup: :thumbup:
GO BIRDS!
Offense was tremendous by the Eagles - O-line was darn good for the most part, McNabb, Jackson and Weaver were excellent. thought the blocked extra point was going to haunt us.
Officiating was atrocious for both sides. Missed at least 3 false starts, 2 interferences and no one has yet given me a good reason why the clock running out at the end of the half is un-reviewable. i guess the home team can run out the clock at will at the end of the half - wtf?
Keep the roll going - division is not over yet with still having to play the Cowboys. And I know the Cowboys have sucked in December but I just have this suspicion they end up beating the Saint's next week - just a hunch on my part.
desean jackson is officially the new giant killer.
That guy is incredible. That punt return - Wow!
Oh and the officiating. This game just proves my point that I don't just bitch about the officials in Cowboys games. Pick a game, any game, and there is some controversy they can't figure out.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
did you see all the confusion in the ravens/lions game? took them about 5 minutes to figure out some meaningless penalty before the raves kicker chip shotted a 20 yarder.
would have liked to have seen san fran lose last night. they would have been pretty much eliminated. now they still hold out some hope being 2 games out with 3 to play. their defense is actually pretty decent. but a short week and travelling across the country benefits the birds.
i wish i didnt sell my tickets to this one. the linc's gonna be jumping.
Marcus Hayes: Westbrook ought to go for the ring, then quit
By Marcus Hayes
Philadelphia Daily News
Marcus Hayes
BRIAN WESTBROOK owes you nothing.
He owes nothing to this town, to these teammates, to the franchise that made him rich, because he made it significant.
Still, he should play. He owes that to himself.
Westbrook suffered two concussions in 20 days. He hasn't been hit since the second one, 31 days ago. There's a good chance his brain has healed, though, damningly, he said it hadn't healed after the first one.
Westbrook, perhaps the best running back in Eagles history, should come back, this week or next.
He should conduct a brief farewell tour. He should relieve flagging rookie LeSean McCoy. He should enjoy fresh legs late in a season that matters.
He should risk his health, if he wants, and make this run to the playoffs, and maybe deep into the playoffs, because, at this stage of his career - rich and lauded and beloved - winning a Super Bowl is what he plays for.
He can make a claim for the Hall of Fame, especially if his career is cut short by a concussion demon. He was, for a while, by far the best player on a consistently good team that played in a very tough division.
He has nothing to prove. Nobody who plays in the NFL after falling into Villanova's program needs to prove anything, and Westbrook's two Pro Bowls are a solid indictment of the blue-chip system of recruitment.
He doesn't need to prove to himself or to anyone else that he's tough enough to take a pounding. Clearly, he is not.
Westbrook has missed at least one game every season. He's only 30. Due to make almost $10 million in 2010, which could be a year without a salary cap, Westbrook is certain to be cut by the Eagles after this season. Given his injury history even before the concussions, he would, at best, be a low-money, 1-year risk elsewhere, adding insult to his injuries.
Why bother?
Make a run toward a title this season, then quit.
Quit before the knees and ankles never forgive you, and before the head swims in an agony of pain and confusion.
Successive concussions usually indicate a predisposition to further concussions. Even the NFL's conflicted experts would tell you that.
Dr. Lester Mayers, director of sports medicine at Pace University, would scream it at you.
Actually, Mayers doesn't scream, and he's no crusader. What he would do is sit you down and explain what he contended in his September 2008 minireview of recent concussion studies that appeared in the "Archives of Neurology," an AMA publication:
That any concussed athlete should sit for 4 to 6 weeks, not the usual 1 to 2 weeks.
Boy, Roger and the Goodellians didn't like that.
The report got the NFL so worked up that, in March, its team of experts rebutted his findings, questioning his very definitions, not to mention the validity of the independent studies Mayers cited - while admitting that their criteria were inexact. In their rebuttal, of course, they exclusively cited their own studies.
Ask him, and Mayers would explain it the way he explained it to two of the three multiply concussed Pace football players he counseled to quit the game. After consulting with Mayers' colleague, Boston concussion ace Dr. Robert Cantu, two of them did quit . . . not that they had Westbrook's considerations.
Mayers deals with amateurs, tomorrow's doctors and the lawyers who sue them. His are kids who play sports at a Division II school because it's in their blood, not because it's in their future.
Taking a month-and-a-half off at Pace with one concussion could bore you and tick off the coach. Taking 6 weeks off in the NFL could cost a player his future.
"I realize, if you're making seven figures," Mayers said, "you might not want to give that up."
Mayers, a former internal medicine and pulmonary specialist who became Pace's team doctor as a retirement self-reward, does not pretend to be a neuroscience expert. He is, however, mortified at the NFL's cavalier attitude toward concussions; at the number of players, such as DeSean Jackson, who return after missing just one game, or, such as Panthers cornerback Captain Munnerlyn, who wanted to return Sunday and miss none.
Mayers cites studies that note altered performance in several areas - gait, balance, reactions, metabolic rates - for as many as 30 days after concussions, regardless of severity. Four weeks of healing, and, still, too often, not everything was quite right.
Well, it's been 4 weeks since Westbrook's second ding, and, come Sunday, it will be 5. He spent last week and weekend whipping himself back into shape, free of headache and nausea and, presumably, delighting the medical staff who address his progress only through imperfect mouthpiece Andy Reid, Westbrook's coach and general manager.
Besides, Westbrook has a helmet with extra padding . . . which, apparently, is like wearing a bulletproof vest made of Saran Wrap.
"It's abundantly clear, it's not the helmet that protects you," Mayers said. "I could produce a concussion in you if I simply held your head, moved it, then stopped it suddenly."
That's because, when the skull stops, the brain, sloshing around in a protective jelly, does not stop . . . until it hits the side of the skull. Then, it vibrates.
And there's no such thing as a head-on hit.
"The brain is rotating on itself, and still shaking," Mayers explained. "The shaking is what causes the concussion. It's tearing brain cells."
Mayers certainly doesn't want Westbrook tearing any more brain cells:
"If he was my son, I'd say, 'You were symptomatic for 4 weeks. I don't want you out in leftfield before I die. All it takes is one knee to the head, and you will never be the same.' "
You can't argue with that sort of logic, especially from a respected, published physician who has treated, and studied, 65 concussion victims in the past 11 years.
But you can take a chance.
Westbrook entered the NFL, the most brutal of professional sports, with the full knowledge that his next play - that his first play - could be his last. He played anyway, for love, and glory, and money, and the chance to wear a ring that commands more respect among most Americans than the pope's.
This is probably his last, best chance at that ring.
He should grab it.