...well you need to go back and read that post then. i merely insinuated at it, and you did get a wee bit testy. just a weeee bit there helen. but that was the end of it. you said you were not anti american and i took you word for it. but i'm guessing thats not the first time it has been brought up with you though?
I got a wee bit... cos I can question anything about any country and that's fine... but once I even mention an American custom, suddenly I'm Anti-American??? :shock: Fuck, believe it or not, there's some irish stuff that I find weird... does that make me Anti-Irish??? Nope... so enough with that argument. It's not the first time it's been brought up, no, but any of my American friends can testify on my behalf that I'm not anti-american... even my non american friends would say the same. There are plenty of things about america that i love... but, if you're willing to accept that, you have to be willing to accept some slight criticism too.
this is what i've learned... you cannot question an american custom... they are sacrosanct.
1. tipping... its plainly idiotic... but i'm not allowed to question it as its an american custom
2. gun laws... same as above
3. flag flying/god bless usa/greatest country in the world... again.. it harms no-one so why question it.
i'm definitely not anti-american... i cant wait to go there later this year... i love my wife#s american family... great fun so they are... i love a lot of things about the US... but i dislike some things to... just as i do with my own country... so i question them. as said before... i'm not a fan of blinkered spoon fed patriotism... it can be dangerous.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
this is what i've learned... you cannot question an american custom... they are sacrosanct.
1. tipping... its plainly idiotic... but i'm not allowed to question it as its an american custom
2. gun laws... same as above
3. flag flying/god bless usa/greatest country in the world... again.. it harms no-one so why question it.
i'm definitely not anti-american... i cant wait to go there later this year... i love my wife#s american family... great fun so they are... i love a lot of things about the US... but i dislike some things to... just as i do with my own country... so i question them. as said before... i'm not a fan of blinkered spoon fed patriotism... it can be dangerous.
this is what i don't get. who has said you can't question it? you can question all you want....i certainly wouldn't stop anybody from saying what they like. just expect to get challenged on it is all. if you just want to bitch about stuff and not expect a reaction, then just write in a journal or something
i'm glad to hear you aren't anti-american, i was getting the impression you were.
and i'm not a fan of blind patriotism either. extremes aren't good as a rule
this is what i've learned... you cannot question an american custom... they are sacrosanct.
1. tipping... its plainly idiotic... but i'm not allowed to question it as its an american custom
2. gun laws... same as above
3. flag flying/god bless usa/greatest country in the world... again.. it harms no-one so why question it.
i'm definitely not anti-american... i cant wait to go there later this year... i love my wife#s american family... great fun so they are... i love a lot of things about the US... but i dislike some things to... just as i do with my own country... so i question them. as said before... i'm not a fan of blinkered spoon fed patriotism... it can be dangerous.
Great post... pretty much sums everything up. It's a pretty pathetic state of affairs really.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
this is what i've learned... you cannot question an american custom... they are sacrosanct.
1. tipping... its plainly idiotic... but i'm not allowed to question it as its an american custom
2. gun laws... same as above
3. flag flying/god bless usa/greatest country in the world... again.. it harms no-one so why question it.
i'm definitely not anti-american... i cant wait to go there later this year... i love my wife#s american family... great fun so they are... i love a lot of things about the US... but i dislike some things to... just as i do with my own country... so i question them. as said before... i'm not a fan of blinkered spoon fed patriotism... it can be dangerous.
Great post... pretty much sums everything up. It's a pretty pathetic state of affairs really.
actually no, it doesn't sum everything up, as nobody is saying you can't question things. just expect to be challenged on it.
this is what i've learned... you cannot question an american custom... they are sacrosanct.
1. tipping... its plainly idiotic... but i'm not allowed to question it as its an american custom
2. gun laws... same as above
3. flag flying/god bless usa/greatest country in the world... again.. it harms no-one so why question it.
i'm definitely not anti-american... i cant wait to go there later this year... i love my wife#s american family... great fun so they are... i love a lot of things about the US... but i dislike some things to... just as i do with my own country... so i question them. as said before... i'm not a fan of blinkered spoon fed patriotism... it can be dangerous.
Great post... pretty much sums everything up. It's a pretty pathetic state of affairs really.
actually no, it doesn't sum everything up, as nobody is saying you can't question things. just expect to be challenged on it.
Oh I do expect to be challenged on it... I also expect loads of lazy arguing ala 'you hate america' and I wasn't let down. Anytime, the above issues are mentioned, it's guaranteed that somebody will call you anti-american... there's a good chance you'll be called anti democratic... and you most likely hate freedom. So yep, dunks post DOES sum it all up.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Oh I do expect to be challenged on it... I also expect loads of lazy arguing ala 'you hate america' and I wasn't let down. Anytime, the above issues are mentioned, it's guaranteed that somebody will call you anti-american... there's a good chance you'll be called anti democratic... and you most likely hate freedom. So yep, dunks post DOES sum it all up.
well when people go off on irrational tangents then yes, it's easy to assume they hate america.
i haven't been lazy in any of my arguments i've shared here.
Oh I do expect to be challenged on it... I also expect loads of lazy arguing ala 'you hate america' and I wasn't let down. Anytime, the above issues are mentioned, it's guaranteed that somebody will call you anti-american... there's a good chance you'll be called anti democratic... and you most likely hate freedom. So yep, dunks post DOES sum it all up.
well when people go off on irrational tangents then yes, it's easy to assume they hate america.
i haven't been lazy in any of my arguments i've shared here.
so yeah, it DOESN'T sum it up.
when were there any irrational tangents??? Sounds like you're a bit paranoid.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Oh I do expect to be challenged on it... I also expect loads of lazy arguing ala 'you hate america' and I wasn't let down. Anytime, the above issues are mentioned, it's guaranteed that somebody will call you anti-american... there's a good chance you'll be called anti democratic... and you most likely hate freedom. So yep, dunks post DOES sum it all up.
well when people go off on irrational tangents then yes, it's easy to assume they hate america.
i haven't been lazy in any of my arguments i've shared here.
so yeah, it DOESN'T sum it up.
when were there any irrational tangents??? Sounds like you're a bit paranoid.
nope, just accurate. comparing flag waving to female circumcision, presuming that americans are all the same. pretty damn irrational.
when were there any irrational tangents??? Sounds like you're a bit paranoid.
nope, just accurate. comparing flag waving to female circumcision, presuming that americans are all the same. pretty damn irrational.
I didn't do that... nor did dunk. It wasn't a good choice in comparison... but he meant there are things about other countries or cultures that we don't like... and since when is the moving train about sitting back and shutting up. There's been some debating here and that's welcome... but there's also been plenty of 'what's it to you?' and 'you obviously hate america'.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
when were there any irrational tangents??? Sounds like you're a bit paranoid.
nope, just accurate. comparing flag waving to female circumcision, presuming that americans are all the same. pretty damn irrational.
I didn't do that... nor did dunk. It wasn't a good choice in comparison... but he meant there are things about other countries or cultures that we don't like... and since when is the moving train about sitting back and shutting up. There's been some debating here and that's welcome... but there's also been plenty of 'what's it to you?' and 'you obviously hate america'.
its cultural in certain middle eastern countries to let women have their clitoris removed... you ok with that? you dont think it's odd? nonsense? wrong!?
its cultural in india that daughters can be swapped for goats or cattle.. you ok with that? you dont think it's odd? nonsense? wrong!?
its the culture in america to fly the flag, say god bless it and to also think that its the greatest country in the world.. i'm not ok with that, i think its odd, makes no sense and wrong.. wrong as in it promotes blinkered patriotism for patriotism sake.
that is a comparison.
nobody's saying to sit back and shut up. i'm certainly not, and i'm not doing it either. just come to the table with valid arguments. and if you don't, prepare to get called on it.
well when people go off on irrational tangents then yes, it's easy to assume they hate america.
i haven't been lazy in any of my arguments i've shared here.
so yeah, it DOESN'T sum it up.
agreed. i don't see 'lazy' arguments at all. perhaps 1 or 2 posts....then quite a few made in jest....but i see a lot of very valid points made. just b/c one refuses to acknowledge them, or chooses to disregard the validity, doesn't make them invalid.
also, i don't think i've seen anyone in this thread refer to anyone else as being anti-american. i know i haven't. i also keep seeing this argument being made like we're trying to stifle one's right to express their opinion. countering an opinion, i did not realize, was actually stifling it. but rebutting any argument in support of flag-waving isn't stifling. just like we should respect other cultures, but apparently can't expect the same. i simply can't seem to follow the rules of this game, or sure...not a game i think worth playing.
it's been said many times over...one wants to think i's ignorant, stupid or whatever else negative connotation there is about flag-waving...more power to you! but the acknowledgement, at the very least that it's our culture, in our country....and while it ain't your thang, at least see it's our own choice for freedom of expression.....that courtesy would be nice. not expecting it, but sure....
anyhooo...this entire argument was a tangent, a huge one...from the initial purpose of the thread. as to whether it's irrational or not...i'll leave it up to you.
btw - so did ya notice......a sum total of 4 people's opinions on the topic consitutes *fact* that it is completely ridiculous to display a flag on your own home, in your own country? what power! someone better alert the vast majority of americans that they've got it all wrong! take those flags down, how dare you be so silly and ignorant!
and i would also say 'why do you care?' if one was so 'irked' by another countries customs/sulture...if they did not harm anyone, nor infringe upon anyone. whether flag-waving or yodelling......
comparing flag waving to female circumcision, presuming that americans are all the same. pretty damn irrational.
i didnt actually compare them like for like... and i wouldnt. I was suggesting that certain customs and/or traditions which we might not see as 'normal' are to some others... and i was trying to say that someone who flies a flag above their porch 365 days a year might not get why *insert strange cultural practice* is done in another country.
i also dont presume all americans to be the same. i've never said that.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
nobody's saying to sit back and shut up. i'm certainly not, and i'm not doing it either. just come to the table with valid arguments. and if you don't, prepare to get called on it.
they certainly ARE valid arguments... are you now debating the topic or the actual debate? :? you obviously refuse to accept that anyone else has a valid point... so I fail to see what you're doing here?
The purpose of my debate was to point out that I know it's done (which many people even debated) but why? Some people gave proper answers but I'm still failing to understand. The purpose of YOUR debate seems to be that everyone else is wrong and if we can't see why YOUR right then we must be stupid or ignorant or something?
I question many things done in other cultures... why is this one making your blood apparently boil?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
comparing flag waving to female circumcision, presuming that americans are all the same. pretty damn irrational.
i didnt actually compare them like for like... and i wouldnt. I was suggesting that certain customs and/or traditions which we might not see as 'normal' are to some others... and i was trying to say that someone who flies a flag above their porch 365 days a year might not get why *insert strange cultural practice* is done in another country.
i also dont presume all americans to be the same. i've never said that.
well making the comparison of customs, between something that is a violation of human rights, versus a flag being flown around...doesn't compare. i addressed it earlier in this thread, but surprise, it was ignored.
i'm glad you don't think all americans are the same. that's the impression i've been getting in some posts here, not necessarily you, but sprinkled here and there. and i never said you said that.
its cultural in certain middle eastern countries to let women have their clitoris removed... you ok with that? you dont think it's odd? nonsense? wrong!?
its cultural in india that daughters can be swapped for goats or cattle.. you ok with that? you dont think it's odd? nonsense? wrong!?
its the culture in america to fly the flag, say god bless it and to also think that its the greatest country in the world.. i'm not ok with that, i think its odd, makes no sense and wrong.. wrong as in it promotes blinkered patriotism for patriotism sake.
that is a comparison.
nobody's saying to sit back and shut up. i'm certainly not, and i'm not doing it either. just come to the table with valid arguments. and if you don't, prepare to get called on it.
i'm afraid that is still not a direct comparison.
just highlighting the fact that certain things in certain cultures are all up for discussion and debate on their validity.
I'm pretty sure you could visit the uk and see something within our culture that you might not 'get'... that you might go back home to folks and say "hey, they do this weird ass thing over there called *whatever* "
i've also not asked that it be stopped... just dont get it nor the need to do it.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
agreed. i don't see 'lazy' arguments at all. perhaps 1 or 2 posts....then quite a few made in jest....but i see a lot of very valid points made. just b/c one refuses to acknowledge them, or chooses to disregard the validity, doesn't make them invalid.
also, i don't think i've seen anyone in this thread refer to anyone else as being anti-american. i know i haven't. i also keep seeing this argument being made like we're trying to stifle one's right to express their opinion. countering an opinion, i did not realize, was actually stifling it. but rebutting any argument in support of flag-waving isn't stifling. just like we should respect other cultures, but apparently can't expect the same. i simply can't seem to follow the rules of this game, or sure...not a game i think worth playing.
it's been said many times over...one wants to think i's ignorant, stupid or whatever else negative connotation there is about flag-waving...more power to you! but the acknowledgement, at the very least that it's our culture, in our country....and while it ain't your thang, at least see it's our own choice for freedom of expression.....that courtesy would be nice. not expecting it, but sure....
anyhooo...this entire argument was a tangent, a huge one...from the initial purpose of the thread. as to whether it's irrational or not...i'll leave it up to you.
btw - so did ya notice......a sum total of 4 people's opinions on the topic consitutes *fact* that it is completely ridiculous to display a flag on your own home, in your own country? what power! someone better alert the vast majority of americans that they've got it all wrong! take those flags down, how dare you be so silly and ignorant!
and i would also say 'why do you care?' if one was so 'irked' by another countries customs/sulture...if they did not harm anyone, nor infringe upon anyone. whether flag-waving or yodelling......
so you didn't see jaegler's constant posts about how we're anti-american? :? dunno how you could miss them. You say it's your choice for freedom of expression... good for you... but I still fail to see what it is you're expressing?
I never claimed that 4 peoples opinions on the topic constitutes FACT :roll: Jaegler said there were only two of us. I also pointed out that I can't say 'in my opinion' cos it's also the opinion of others so that would be misleading. You can keep ignoring that if you like.
I DON'T CARE... it's a discussion... I don't care about plenty of things I discuss here... it's a discussion board... I don't see anywhere it says you have to care????????????????? :? so again, keep ignoring that point too.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
they certainly ARE valid arguments... are you now debating the topic or the actual debate? :? you obviously refuse to accept that anyone else has a valid point... so I fail to see what you're doing here?
The purpose of my debate was to point out that I know it's done (which many people even debated) but why? Some people gave proper answers but I'm still failing to understand. The purpose of YOUR debate seems to be that everyone else is wrong and if we can't see why YOUR right then we must be stupid or ignorant or something?
I question many things done in other cultures... why is this one making your blood apparently boil?
oh my blood isn't boliling, trust me. i save that for things that matter.
i'll accept someone has a valid point when they present it to me. i can see how it's irritating to see blind patriotism (i agreed in an earlier post), but saying that 'god bless america' somehow diminished the value of other countries? sorry, i don't accept that. and just as you don't have to accept my point of view, i don't have to accept yours. and that's okay.
ignorance is in providing weak arguments, or ignoring when someone offers a point of view. so you can read that however you like.
btw - so did ya notice......a sum total of 4 people's opinions on the topic consitutes *fact* that it is completely ridiculous to display a flag on your own home, in your own country? what power! someone better alert the vast majority of americans that they've got it all wrong! take those flags down, how dare you be so silly and ignorant!
making things up now are we?
i counted more than 4.. i also never once saw anyone who had suggested it was FACT.. just their opinion that flying a flag on your own doorstep of the country you live in is just a bit odd... to us... just as grown men chasing a giant circular cheese down a hill in Yorkshire every year is a bit odd... funny, but a bit weird.
i agree with the last sentence though...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
its cultural in certain middle eastern countries to let women have their clitoris removed... you ok with that? you dont think it's odd? nonsense? wrong!?
its cultural in india that daughters can be swapped for goats or cattle.. you ok with that? you dont think it's odd? nonsense? wrong!?
its the culture in america to fly the flag, say god bless it and to also think that its the greatest country in the world.. i'm not ok with that, i think its odd, makes no sense and wrong.. wrong as in it promotes blinkered patriotism for patriotism sake.
that is a comparison.
nobody's saying to sit back and shut up. i'm certainly not, and i'm not doing it either. just come to the table with valid arguments. and if you don't, prepare to get called on it.
i'm afraid that is still not a direct comparison.
just highlighting the fact that certain things in certain cultures are all up for discussion and debate on their validity.
I'm pretty sure you could visit the uk and see something within our culture that you might not 'get'... that you might go back home to folks and say "hey, they do this weird ass thing over there called *whatever* "
i've also not asked that it be stopped... just dont get it nor the need to do it.
of course things are all up for discussion and debate, so i see your point from that perspective. i just think the example of female mutilation is a different thing altogether.
and sure, i've been to the UK and seen stuff we don't do here and maybe don't 'get', that's cool. i'm not trying to make everybody think everyone in the UK is a freak because of it lol
oh my blood isn't boliling, trust me. i save that for things that matter.
i'll accept someone has a valid point when they present it to me. i can see how it's irritating to see blind patriotism (i agreed in an earlier post), but saying that 'god bless america' somehow diminished the value of other countries? sorry, i don't accept that. and just as you don't have to accept my point of view, i don't have to accept yours. and that's okay.
ignorance is in providing weak arguments, or ignoring when someone offers a point of view. so you can read that however you like.
I certainly haven't ignored anyone's point of view... I haven't provided weak arguments either... they've just been ignored. I've pointed out how across the world, plenty of flags are seen as a symbol of hate. They can also symbolise blind patriotism... which can lead to much more serious stuff... as the likes of the nazis proved. I have pointed out how it can segregate people and make them feel like an outsider. I think when people blindly fly their flag on their porch, NONE of this is taken into consideration. If you consider any of those 'weak arguments' well there's no point continuing this discussion.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
oh my blood isn't boliling, trust me. i save that for things that matter.
i'll accept someone has a valid point when they present it to me. i can see how it's irritating to see blind patriotism (i agreed in an earlier post), but saying that 'god bless america' somehow diminished the value of other countries? sorry, i don't accept that. and just as you don't have to accept my point of view, i don't have to accept yours. and that's okay.
ignorance is in providing weak arguments, or ignoring when someone offers a point of view. so you can read that however you like.
I certainly haven't ignored anyone's point of view... I haven't provided weak arguments either... they've just been ignored. I've pointed out how across the world, plenty of flags are seen as a symbol of hate. They can also symbolise blind patriotism... which can lead to much more serious stuff... as the likes of the nazis proved. I have pointed out how it can segregate people and make them feel like an outsider. I think when people blindly fly their flag on their porch, NONE of this is taken into consideration. If you consider any of those 'weak arguments' well there's no point continuing this discussion.
well i haven't seen anybody address the first post i made in this thread, so it got ignored too.
and how do you know these people are 'blindly' flying their flags? maybe they have a compelling reason to do so, that isn't intended to ostracize people.
whatever, go ahead and twist this however you like. it's clearly a waste of time trying to have a discussion with peopel who don't listen.
that's cool... there ARE great possibilities in the US.. but NO greater than there are in many other countries throughout the world. Just remember that. Also, the US IS a great country, but no greater than many other countries.
what ever :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
what ever???? now thats serious fucking debating...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
that's cool... there ARE great possibilities in the US.. but NO greater than there are in many other countries throughout the world. Just remember that. Also, the US IS a great country, but no greater than many other countries.
what ever :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
what ever???? now thats serious fucking debating...
well yes, that's ignorant. i'm not arguing that! it's on both sides here.
well i haven't seen anybody address the first post i made in this thread, so it got ignored too.
and how do you know these people are 'blindly' flying their flags? maybe they have a compelling reason to do so, that isn't intended to ostracize people.
whatever, go ahead and twist this however you like. it's clearly a waste of time trying to have a discussion with peopel who don't listen.
so tell me what compelling arguments they might have... rather than just say I'm wrong cos they MIGHT have a compelling argument
anyway, there's no point talking to you since unless I say whatever it is you want me to say you're just gonna focus on the manner of debating rather than the actual debate.
Ooohh I'm sorry I ignored your first post... :? did I? Did you address me?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
btw - so did ya notice......a sum total of 4 people's opinions on the topic consitutes *fact* that it is completely ridiculous to display a flag on your own home, in your own country? what power! someone better alert the vast majority of americans that they've got it all wrong! take those flags down, how dare you be so silly and ignorant!
making things up now are we?
i counted more than 4.. i also never once saw anyone who had suggested it was FACT.. just their opinion that flying a flag on your own doorstep of the country you live in is just a bit odd... to us... just as grown men chasing a giant circular cheese down a hill in Yorkshire every year is a bit odd... funny, but a bit weird.
i agree with the last sentence though...
i was referencing helen's post...she named 4. i wasn't going to waste my time counting em up....but i don't care if the number ws in the thousands.....b/c clearly, millions of americans DO support and appreciate flying their flags on their own homes, etc.....and i certainly don't think it's 'silly' either.......and helen did pretty much say outright that it IS silly and serves no purpose, etc, etc.....which sure appears to be parading OPINION as FACT. i'll retract the fact bit tho, fine.
and good for you.
btw - saying it's funny, odd, whatever.....all cool...said as much many times over! but to go on and on, like we shouldn't, or how dare we say 'god bless america' etc....imo...is taking it too far. but whatever. i find it extremely odd that something that does not impact you in any way, harms no one,does not happen in your country, etc....would be THAT irksome. but i guess we both have trouble 'understanding'....and that's a-ok. it's the way the opinion was presented - and hammered endlessly - more than anything.
well i haven't seen anybody address the first post i made in this thread, so it got ignored too.
and how do you know these people are 'blindly' flying their flags? maybe they have a compelling reason to do so, that isn't intended to ostracize people.
whatever, go ahead and twist this however you like. it's clearly a waste of time trying to have a discussion with peopel who don't listen.
so tell me what compelling arguments they might have... rather than just say I'm wrong cos they MIGHT have a compelling argument
anyway, there's no point talking to you since unless I say whatever it is you want me to say you're just gonna focus on the manner of debating rather than the actual debate.
Ooohh I'm sorry I ignored your first post... :? did I? Did you address me?
well i just made a point about people 'blindly' flying their flags. you just glossed over it, and it wasn't like it was buried in back pages.
i agree, no point debating here because you just want to hear what you think. i've addressed you enough. enjoy yourself!
so you didn't see jaegler's constant posts about how we're anti-american? :? dunno how you could miss them. You say it's your choice for freedom of expression... good for you... but I still fail to see what it is you're expressing?
o.
my "constant posts?" are you fucking nuts helen? i hinted at it in ONE post. then you said you were not. then i dropped it. if your definition of "constant" is one, and a follow up post to defend myself, then i apologize. i just dont see why you and dunk are so preoccupied with what we americans do over here. if you dont care about it, why keep posting and posting and posting about it? i dont get you crazy europeans sometimes
oh, and the fucking point of this whole thread was to talk about the united state's biased media....not some offhanded comment the jeagler made after the fact. you guys are nuts! love ya!
so you didn't see jaegler's constant posts about how we're anti-american? :? dunno how you could miss them. You say it's your choice for freedom of expression... good for you... but I still fail to see what it is you're expressing?
I never claimed that 4 peoples opinions on the topic constitutes FACT :roll: Jaegler said there were only two of us. I also pointed out that I can't say 'in my opinion' cos it's also the opinion of others so that would be misleading. You can keep ignoring that if you like.
I DON'T CARE... it's a discussion... I don't care about plenty of things I discuss here... it's a discussion board... I don't see anywhere it says you have to care????????????????? :? so again, keep ignoring that point too.
dear gawd....if you take those seriously...there's no hope. truly. hahahahahahaha.
expressing love of country, patriotism, respect, unity....all sorts of things, you'd have to ask each individual american who flyies their flag why they do so.
and even if others share your opinion...it's STILL opinion!
and alrighty then! who told you not to discuss? i merely questioned why...and now you answered...basically for the fuck of it. gotcha.
well i just made a point about people 'blindly' flying their flags. you just glossed over it, and it wasn't like it was buried in back pages.
i agree, no point debating here because you just want to hear what you think. i've addressed you enough. enjoy yourself!
ooohh that's funny, I could say your last paragraph to YOU
Sorry for 'ignoring' your wonderful post which, I'm sure, cleared the whole thing up :?
I'd this debate with anyone who wants to discuss it like an adult... thanks for your input though.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Comments
this is what i've learned... you cannot question an american custom... they are sacrosanct.
1. tipping... its plainly idiotic... but i'm not allowed to question it as its an american custom
2. gun laws... same as above
3. flag flying/god bless usa/greatest country in the world... again.. it harms no-one so why question it.
i'm definitely not anti-american... i cant wait to go there later this year... i love my wife#s american family... great fun so they are... i love a lot of things about the US... but i dislike some things to... just as i do with my own country... so i question them. as said before... i'm not a fan of blinkered spoon fed patriotism... it can be dangerous.
i'm glad to hear you aren't anti-american, i was getting the impression you were.
and i'm not a fan of blind patriotism either. extremes aren't good as a rule
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i haven't been lazy in any of my arguments i've shared here.
so yeah, it DOESN'T sum it up.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
nope, just accurate. comparing flag waving to female circumcision, presuming that americans are all the same. pretty damn irrational.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
that is a comparison.
nobody's saying to sit back and shut up. i'm certainly not, and i'm not doing it either. just come to the table with valid arguments. and if you don't, prepare to get called on it.
agreed. i don't see 'lazy' arguments at all. perhaps 1 or 2 posts....then quite a few made in jest....but i see a lot of very valid points made. just b/c one refuses to acknowledge them, or chooses to disregard the validity, doesn't make them invalid.
also, i don't think i've seen anyone in this thread refer to anyone else as being anti-american. i know i haven't. i also keep seeing this argument being made like we're trying to stifle one's right to express their opinion. countering an opinion, i did not realize, was actually stifling it. but rebutting any argument in support of flag-waving isn't stifling. just like we should respect other cultures, but apparently can't expect the same. i simply can't seem to follow the rules of this game, or sure...not a game i think worth playing.
it's been said many times over...one wants to think i's ignorant, stupid or whatever else negative connotation there is about flag-waving...more power to you! but the acknowledgement, at the very least that it's our culture, in our country....and while it ain't your thang, at least see it's our own choice for freedom of expression.....that courtesy would be nice. not expecting it, but sure....
anyhooo...this entire argument was a tangent, a huge one...from the initial purpose of the thread. as to whether it's irrational or not...i'll leave it up to you.
btw - so did ya notice......a sum total of 4 people's opinions on the topic consitutes *fact* that it is completely ridiculous to display a flag on your own home, in your own country? what power!
and i would also say 'why do you care?' if one was so 'irked' by another countries customs/sulture...if they did not harm anyone, nor infringe upon anyone. whether flag-waving or yodelling......
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i didnt actually compare them like for like... and i wouldnt. I was suggesting that certain customs and/or traditions which we might not see as 'normal' are to some others... and i was trying to say that someone who flies a flag above their porch 365 days a year might not get why *insert strange cultural practice* is done in another country.
i also dont presume all americans to be the same. i've never said that.
The purpose of my debate was to point out that I know it's done (which many people even debated) but why? Some people gave proper answers but I'm still failing to understand. The purpose of YOUR debate seems to be that everyone else is wrong and if we can't see why YOUR right then we must be stupid or ignorant or something?
I question many things done in other cultures... why is this one making your blood apparently boil?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i'm glad you don't think all americans are the same. that's the impression i've been getting in some posts here, not necessarily you, but sprinkled here and there. and i never said you said that.
i'm afraid that is still not a direct comparison.
just highlighting the fact that certain things in certain cultures are all up for discussion and debate on their validity.
I'm pretty sure you could visit the uk and see something within our culture that you might not 'get'... that you might go back home to folks and say "hey, they do this weird ass thing over there called *whatever* "
i've also not asked that it be stopped... just dont get it nor the need to do it.
I never claimed that 4 peoples opinions on the topic constitutes FACT :roll: Jaegler said there were only two of us. I also pointed out that I can't say 'in my opinion' cos it's also the opinion of others so that would be misleading. You can keep ignoring that if you like.
I DON'T CARE... it's a discussion... I don't care about plenty of things I discuss here... it's a discussion board... I don't see anywhere it says you have to care????????????????? :? so again, keep ignoring that point too.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i'll accept someone has a valid point when they present it to me. i can see how it's irritating to see blind patriotism (i agreed in an earlier post), but saying that 'god bless america' somehow diminished the value of other countries? sorry, i don't accept that. and just as you don't have to accept my point of view, i don't have to accept yours. and that's okay.
ignorance is in providing weak arguments, or ignoring when someone offers a point of view. so you can read that however you like.
making things up now are we?
i counted more than 4.. i also never once saw anyone who had suggested it was FACT.. just their opinion that flying a flag on your own doorstep of the country you live in is just a bit odd... to us... just as grown men chasing a giant circular cheese down a hill in Yorkshire every year is a bit odd... funny, but a bit weird.
i agree with the last sentence though...
and sure, i've been to the UK and seen stuff we don't do here and maybe don't 'get', that's cool. i'm not trying to make everybody think everyone in the UK is a freak because of it lol
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
and how do you know these people are 'blindly' flying their flags? maybe they have a compelling reason to do so, that isn't intended to ostracize people.
whatever, go ahead and twist this however you like. it's clearly a waste of time trying to have a discussion with peopel who don't listen.
i agree
like this kind of response
what ever???? now thats serious fucking debating...
well yes, that's ignorant. i'm not arguing that! it's on both sides here.
anyway, there's no point talking to you since unless I say whatever it is you want me to say you're just gonna focus on the manner of debating rather than the actual debate.
Ooohh I'm sorry I ignored your first post... :? did I? Did you address me?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i was referencing helen's post...she named 4. i wasn't going to waste my time counting em up....but i don't care if the number ws in the thousands.....b/c clearly, millions of americans DO support and appreciate flying their flags on their own homes, etc.....and i certainly don't think it's 'silly' either.......and helen did pretty much say outright that it IS silly and serves no purpose, etc, etc.....which sure appears to be parading OPINION as FACT. i'll retract the fact bit tho, fine.
and good for you.
btw - saying it's funny, odd, whatever.....all cool...said as much many times over! but to go on and on, like we shouldn't, or how dare we say 'god bless america' etc....imo...is taking it too far. but whatever. i find it extremely odd that something that does not impact you in any way, harms no one,does not happen in your country, etc....would be THAT irksome. but i guess we both have trouble 'understanding'....and that's a-ok. it's the way the opinion was presented - and hammered endlessly - more than anything.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i agree, no point debating here because you just want to hear what you think. i've addressed you enough. enjoy yourself!
my "constant posts?" are you fucking nuts helen? i hinted at it in ONE post. then you said you were not. then i dropped it. if your definition of "constant" is one, and a follow up post to defend myself, then i apologize. i just dont see why you and dunk are so preoccupied with what we americans do over here. if you dont care about it, why keep posting and posting and posting about it? i dont get you crazy europeans sometimes
oh, and the fucking point of this whole thread was to talk about the united state's biased media....not some offhanded comment the jeagler made after the fact. you guys are nuts! love ya!
dear gawd....if you take those seriously...there's no hope. truly. hahahahahahaha.
expressing love of country, patriotism, respect, unity....all sorts of things, you'd have to ask each individual american who flyies their flag why they do so.
and even if others share your opinion...it's STILL opinion!
and alrighty then! who told you not to discuss? i merely questioned why...and now you answered...basically for the fuck of it. gotcha.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Sorry for 'ignoring' your wonderful post which, I'm sure, cleared the whole thing up :?
I'd this debate with anyone who wants to discuss it like an adult... thanks for your input though.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
ehhh... you're welcome.. I think.[/quote]
explain to me, with examples, of why the jeagler feels that way. if you can do it, i will give you a million... euros.
so you're now reduced to making idiotic claims with nothing to back it up. i thought you were more intelligent than that my friend. no?