I don't know what to think because now I'm hearing it's Taylor because he had elbow problems in the Fall league. Considering he's going to Oakland in a subsequent trade could mean somthing...
I don't know what to think because now I'm hearing it's Taylor because he had elbow problems in the Fall league. Considering he's going to Oakland in a subsequent trade could mean somthing...
Would the Phillies replace him with Brown?
I don't know. I don't know if they'd give both of their top prospects. I don't know if I would. Wish I knew what the Hell was going on right now.
Well Phillie Phans you just got a guy who will give you a ton of complete games and at least 22 wins next year. As the Phillies can produce more then one or two runs with a guy like Doc on the mound where the Jays couldn't.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Phils Should Have Kept Halladay and Lee
Jay Mariotti
It's good to know that the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox and Mariners are doing big business this winter. That means four teams seem serious about being the best they can be, which would be a titillating thought if we were talking college basketball in April. But we're not.
Major League Baseball is a 30-team enterprise, and, once again, we're left with the sort of competitive imbalance that basically eliminates two dozen teams from World Series title consideration weeks before pitchers and catchers report. I realize that this sport has been hit by the recession, too, but I also suspect some franchise owners are using the economic crisis as a convenient reason to cut costs and corners when, in truth, they have the money to make improvements. There is a dirty word for this collective financial inertia.
Collusion.
So you'd better appreciate life in Philadelphia, the Bronx, Boston and Seattle, where recent days have brought significant maneuvers that all but ensure a successful 2010 in those places. The biggest two deals came this week, when the Red Sox signed pitcher John Lackey to a five-year deal that narrows the Yankees' advantage in the starting rotation, followed by a three-way blockbuster between the Phillies, Mariners and Blue Jays that, from a Philadelphia standpoint, is oddly bittersweet.
The front office made a spectacular move in acquiring Roy Halladay, the grand prize of the offseason, a pitching force who will rule the National League much as Cliff Lee did when he joined the Phillies last summer. But here's the rub: Rather than pair up Halladay and Lee for even one season, which would have been one of the all-time dominant collaborations (think Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale) and dramatically closed the competitive gap between the Phillies and champion Yankees, the Phillies used the deal to ship Lee -- sigh! -- to the Mariners. For months, the Blue Jays had been trying to pry away Philadelphia's best pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek, only to be rejected. Now, suddenly, the Phillies have relinquished Drabek in the Halladay deal, only to dump Lee when he still has a year remaining on his contract.
Uh, why not just keep Lee for his final season while giving Halladay the contract extension he reportedly has accepted: a guaranteed $60 million for three years and a 2014 vesting option of $20 million? Couldn't the trade have been done straight up with Toronto without including Seattle, especially with the Blue Jays sending $6 million in cash to Philadelphia -- all but offsetting the $8 million owed to Lee next season? I can assure you that Lee, coming off a dazzling second half and a nearly-unhittable postseason after winning the American League Cy Young Award in 2008, will have another monster year. I can anticipate the same for Halladay. So even if the Phillies knew they could afford only one or the other for the long term, they could have kept Lee -- who reportedly was making waves about wanting a contract similar to the $161-million pact signed by his friend and former Cleveland partner in Cy Young crime, C.C. Sabathia -- and undoubtedly been the favorites to win the World Series.
Then, when Lee becomes a free agent next winter, they wave goodbye and thank him for the memories while anointing Halladay as the long-term staff anchor. Instead, the Phillies are no better than they were when they lost the Series to the Yankees in six games: a special pitcher at the top of the rotation and a lot of question marks after him, including Cole Hamels, who was last heard verbally blowing off the season before the Series actually was over. The Phillies got cheaper for the future and received three prospects: pitchers Phillippe Aumont and Juan Ramirez and outfielder Tyson Gillies. But at the major league level, they are no better next season while the Yankees and Red Sox clearly have improved themselves.
Sorry, but I've never understood why a franchise prioritizes the future over its precious present. Sorry, but I've never understood why a franchise prioritizes the future over its precious present. In these tumultuous times when any calamity seems possible, including the apocalypse, why would the Phillies blow off an enhanced opportunity to win another World Series next season because they want to acquire prospects and keep their payroll at $140 million? GO FOR THE JUGULAR when you have the chance, when you're clearly the best team in a National League that finds the Dodgers in a divorce-driven fire sale, the Mets lamely remaining idle while the Yankees dominate the back pages, the Cubs not doing much in the infancy of their new ownership and the Cardinals playing their usual payroll games in middle America. Plus, the Phillies don't know if their prospects will pan out. They don't know if their prospects will remain healthy. They don't know if their prospects will date a Kardashian sister -- or should I say a Lohan or a Spears, now that the combined record of the Saints and Lakers, the teams that feature a Kardashian as an in-house love interest, is 31-4?
It didn't have to be an "either/or." It could have been a "win/win" -- and a second World Series trophy in three years. I shouldn't have to remind Ruben Amaro, the Phillies general manager, that Lee went 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA in five postseason starts, winning twice in the World Series. In fact, if push came to shove, I might have picked Lee over Halladay -- particularly if Lee's agent, Darek Braunecker, is being honest when he says he made no demands for Sabathia-type money and that Lee dearly wanted to remain in Philadelphia for the rest of his career. Instead, the winner of the Yankees-Red Sox scrum will prevail in the Series next October/November, with the once-straggling Mariners in position to make the playoffs by teaming Lee with Felix Hernandez atop the rotation and reaping the versatile benefits of new signee Chone Figgins.
OK, we'll see a few more names signed. The Mets, who have to do something if they want any cred in New York, likely will reach out to Jason Bay. The Cardinals probably will re-sign Matt Holliday, who isn't receiving the offers he expected after his postseason fielding blunder and may sign for less money than he rejected last year in Colorado. But the Red Sox aren't done, either, as they eye third baseman Adrian Beltre and have a $15.5 million offer on the table to Aroldis Chapman, the lefty pitcher from Cuba. And that means the Yankees aren't done, as well, making these teams the two biggest winners.
They'll open the regular season on a Sunday night in April and, most likely, close out the postseason in the AL championship series. For all the grousing about too much East Coast-axis emphasis on this rivalry, it's still the best theater in the sport, by far trumping whatever the Yankees and Phillies gave us. The question now becomes whether the Red Sox, with their specific values on pitching and defense while sacrificing the big bopping of their championship years, have enough to beat the Yankees. Right now, I'd say no. By stealing center fielder Curtis Granderson from Detroit, the Yankees have added another power hitter -- one with speed and defensive skills -- to a lineup that already is the modern-day Murderers Row. They've re-signed Andy Pettitte, which aligns an imposing postseason rotation that also included Sabathia and A.J. Burnett. Maybe they didn't get Halladay, which they hoped could happen in midseason. But next winter, they simply can sign Lee to replace Pettitte.
The Yankees gave up two pitchers, Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy, and outfield prospect Austin Jackson in the three-way deal with Detroit and Arizona. General manager Brian Cashman pretended as if he was torn. "We're excited about what we're getting, and we're distraught about what we gave up at the same time," he said. "It's a tough decision. You're trading the future for here and now."
Here and now is where we are. Remember that if the Yankees win their 28th championship and the Phillies are also-rans again.
lil bittersweet. lil bit...odd that i would ever feel like that when acquiring a guy like halladay. but it is what it is. fucking hamels better get his shit together for next year. GO PHILS
couple of problems with Mariotti's article:
who is paying Halladay's $16 mil???
since when does spending money guarantee you the WS or even a spot there?? (just ask the Yankees a few years ago)
what's wrong with having flexibility and looking to the future?? I mean how would fans react if the Phils blew their load this season and didn't win the WS, then slowly fell back in the NL East over the next few seasons?? They'd blow their tops.
Read the article by David Murphy at philly.com, where he outlines what the Phils I have tied up in players over the next couple of seasons... its scary how much money is tied into a couple of players after this season.
lil bittersweet. lil bit...odd that i would ever feel like that when acquiring a guy like halladay. but it is what it is. fucking hamels better get his shit together for next year. GO PHILS
lil bittersweet. lil bit...odd that i would ever feel like that when acquiring a guy like halladay. but it is what it is. fucking hamels better get his shit together for next year. GO PHILS
Seriously. This is the biggest part - he better find his testicles over the winter. The only reason I marginally liked the guy is because he was winning. If it's not for that, then all he's got is a face that only a closed fist could love.
couple of problems with Mariotti's article:
who is paying Halladay's $16 mil???
since when does spending money guarantee you the WS or even a spot there?? (just ask the Yankees a few years ago)
what's wrong with having flexibility and looking to the future?? I mean how would fans react if the Phils blew their load this season and didn't win the WS, then slowly fell back in the NL East over the next few seasons?? They'd blow their tops.
Read the article by David Murphy at philly.com, where he outlines what the Phils I have tied up in players over the next couple of seasons... its scary how much money is tied into a couple of players after this season.
couple of problems with Mariotti's article:
who is paying Halladay's $16 mil???
since when does spending money guarantee you the WS or even a spot there?? (just ask the Yankees a few years ago)
what's wrong with having flexibility and looking to the future?? I mean how would fans react if the Phils blew their load this season and didn't win the WS, then slowly fell back in the NL East over the next few seasons?? They'd blow their tops.
Read the article by David Murphy at philly.com, where he outlines what the Phils I have tied up in players over the next couple of seasons... its scary how much money is tied into a couple of players after this season.
lil bittersweet. lil bit...odd that i would ever feel like that when acquiring a guy like halladay. but it is what it is. fucking hamels better get his shit together for next year. GO PHILS
why bittersweet? is it because you held out a dream of Lee and Halladay together? that was never a reality. Halladay for 3-4 years is way better than Lee for one. The only question for Amaro is why Drabek and Taylor now and not in June-July? This is a great trade as it gives the Phils a legitimate chance for 3 more years. People act like they didn't come close this year - we took it to game freakin 6 people - it's not like the Yankees totally smoked us - we are still by far the best team in the NL.
couple of problems with Mariotti's article:
who is paying Halladay's $16 mil???
since when does spending money guarantee you the WS or even a spot there?? (just ask the Yankees a few years ago)
what's wrong with having flexibility and looking to the future?? I mean how would fans react if the Phils blew their load this season and didn't win the WS, then slowly fell back in the NL East over the next few seasons?? They'd blow their tops.
Read the article by David Murphy at philly.com, where he outlines what the Phils I have tied up in players over the next couple of seasons... its scary how much money is tied into a couple of players after this season.
What's scarier is how many players we DON'T have committed past 2011.
Yeah that's more what I meant, but I think its sort of the nature of baseball right now...
True. Just read an interesting comment on ESPN that pretty much summed this whole thing up for me: "Do you guys understand how good Halladay is? I really can't believe that ANYBODY doesn't see how good this deal is for the Phillies. I'm sure you're the same people who were ripping Amaro last year for getting Lee INSTEAD of Halladay."
That'd be interesting to see. All the schmucks that were blasting RAJ for trading for Lee instead of Doc. All I know is - In Amaro I Trust.
What's scarier is how many players we DON'T have committed past 2011.
Yeah that's more what I meant, but I think its sort of the nature of baseball right now...
True. Just read an interesting comment on ESPN that pretty much summed this whole thing up for me: "Do you guys understand how good Halladay is? I really can't believe that ANYBODY doesn't see how good this deal is for the Phillies. I'm sure you're the same people who were ripping Amaro last year for getting Lee INSTEAD of Halladay."
That'd be interesting to see. All the schmucks that were blasting RAJ for trading for Lee instead of Doc. All I know is - In Amaro I Trust.
well they are schmucks if that is what their argument is. most people i talk to are upset we didnt get both. most people who know what they are talking about realize halladay's the better pitcher. its the whole--going all in for just one year that people are frustrated over.
Yeah that's more what I meant, but I think its sort of the nature of baseball right now...
True. Just read an interesting comment on ESPN that pretty much summed this whole thing up for me: "Do you guys understand how good Halladay is? I really can't believe that ANYBODY doesn't see how good this deal is for the Phillies. I'm sure you're the same people who were ripping Amaro last year for getting Lee INSTEAD of Halladay."
That'd be interesting to see. All the schmucks that were blasting RAJ for trading for Lee instead of Doc. All I know is - In Amaro I Trust.
well they are schmucks if that is what their argument is. most people i talk to are upset we didnt get both. most people who know what they are talking about realize halladay's the better pitcher. its the whole--going all in for just one year that people are frustrated over.
Oh, and Gillies is 30% deaf in one ear and 60% deaf in the other. How bout that.
And I watched video of Aumont throwing last night. He'd be a great incumbent to the set up role or closer down the road if he can stay healthy. Nasty stuff.
Oh, and Gillies is 30% deaf in one ear and 60% deaf in the other. How bout that.
And I watched video of Aumont throwing last night. He'd be a great incumbent to the set up role or closer down the road if he can stay healthy. Nasty stuff.
i was watching video of gillies. he is one speedy mother f'er. looked like michael bourne beating out a bunt and stealing 2nd...
well they are schmucks if that is what their argument is. most people i talk to are upset we didnt get both. most people who know what they are talking about realize halladay's the better pitcher. its the whole--going all in for just one year that people are frustrated over.
In a perfect world, Jeags....In a perfect world.
or a world where ruben amaro didnt give jaime moyer 16 million for 2 seasons...
or a world where ruben amaro didnt give jaime moyer 16 million for 2 seasons...
True, but Amaro's hitting like .750(letting Burrell go & signing Raul, trading for Lee then Doc, letting WT Myers go) right now with all the moves he made, so I'm cool.
Hahahahahahahhaa....so Ryan and his bro were at the Sixers game - not to mention Doc as well - and they labeled Ry's brother as, well...here ya go...ahahahhaha
Apparently every Philly athlete not playing hoops was there...D Jax, the real Leonard Weaver, RyHo, Mike Richard, Riley Cote, Dan Carcillo...
Hahahahahahahhaa....so Ryan and his bro were at the Sixers game - not to mention Doc as well - and they labeled Ry's brother as, well...here ya go...ahahahhaha
Apparently every Philly athlete not playing hoops was there...D Jax, the real Leonard Weaver, RyHo, Mike Richard, Riley Cote, Dan Carcillo...
or a world where ruben amaro didnt give jaime moyer 16 million for 2 seasons...
True, but Amaro's hitting like .750(letting Burrell go & signing Raul, trading for Lee then Doc, letting WT Myers go) right now with all the moves he made, so I'm cool.
.750?
he overpaid for raul, signed moyer to a god awful deal, and failed to find some decent help off the bench last year which came back to haunt us in the ws. letting burrell and myers go were givens.
or a world where ruben amaro didnt give jaime moyer 16 million for 2 seasons...
True, but Amaro's hitting like .750(letting Burrell go & signing Raul, trading for Lee then Doc, letting WT Myers go) right now with all the moves he made, so I'm cool.
.750?
he overpaid for raul, signed moyer to a god awful deal, and failed to find some decent help off the bench last year which came back to haunt us in the ws. letting burrell and myers go were givens.
He overpaid for Raul? You gotta be kidding me. I'm sure you weren't saying that before he got injured. He made 7+ mil last year and averages 10 per over 3 seasons. The man drove in over 90 RBI's, hit over 30 HR's, scored nearly over 90 runs, had an OPS 70 points higher from his career average, was MVP of the NL for the first half of the season, and fought through an abdominal injury all while doing it in the second half. Burrell made over 15 mil the year previous compared to Raul's 7+ mil. Yeah, I think the pros outweigh the cons. Anytime a player can drive in nearly 100 runs and score nearly 100 runs, that in itself is invaluable. The man's a CAREER .300 hitter. Yeah, I think they did alright there. And letting someone like Myers go is not precedent for this organization(not even offering a cheaper deal due to injuries because they don't let home grown talent just walk away.). The bench was pretty much the same as it was in '08. They were hurt down the road(after the trade deadline) due to illness and injury. And the bench they have now is much better than it was last year. My point is Amaro's doing just as much, if not more, than Gillick did before him to sustain a winner. And there's more I can support in his tenure than I can criticize.
.750?
he overpaid for raul, signed moyer to a god awful deal, and failed to find some decent help off the bench last year which came back to haunt us in the ws. letting burrell and myers go were givens.
He overpaid for Raul? You gotta be kidding me. I'm sure you weren't saying that before he got injured. He made 7+ mil last year and averages 10 per over 3 seasons. The man drove in over 90 RBI's, hit over 30 HR's, scored nearly over 90 runs, had an OPS 70 points higher from his career average, was MVP of the NL for the first half of the season, and fought through an abdominal injury all while doing it in the second half. Burrell made over 15 mil the year previous compared to Raul's 7+ mil. Yeah, I think the pros outweigh the cons. Anytime a player can drive in nearly 100 runs and score nearly 100 runs, that in itself is invaluable. The man's a CAREER .300 hitter. Yeah, I think they did alright there. And letting someone like Myers go is not precedent for this organization(not even offering a cheaper deal due to injuries because they don't let home grown talent just walk away.). The bench was pretty much the same as it was in '08. They were hurt down the road(after the trade deadline) due to illness and injury. And the bench they have now is much better than it was last year. My point is Amaro's doing just as much, if not more, than Gillick did before him to sustain a winner. And there's more I can support in his tenure than I can criticize.
i'm not as high on ibanez as most people are. never was. what did he hit, 220 the 2nd half the season? i know he was battling an injury...but that's what you get with an aging vet. you get hurt, it takes longer to recover. next year his numbers will only be worse. you can go back in this thread and see i said the same thing last year. said the same thing about moyer last year as well.
i disagree on myers. he's been hurt a lot, beats his wife, and and hasn't had a productive full season in years. makes sense to let him walk and test the waters...i do think they might bring him back if he's still unsigned in a month or so though.
and with the bench--completely disagree. how was the bench better in 09 than it was in 08 or 07? some of the players were the same but they were not producing like they were. gillick was great at recognizing that and finding guys who could produce (stairs in '08). if gillick were the gm, i'd bet he would have cut stairs and picked up someone else at the deadline. you can't have ben francisco (i know ibanez dh'd but ben was his replacement) as your dh in the world series.
look, i like amaro. i think he's done a nice job. i just think you might be looking at him with red colored goggles here. he's done a nice job. but he's also made mistakes. mistakes that lead to us not being able to have one of the best rotations in the history of the universe! the whole universe!
Comments
Would the Phillies replace him with Brown?
I don't know. I don't know if they'd give both of their top prospects. I don't know if I would. Wish I knew what the Hell was going on right now.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
http://jay-mariotti.fanhouse.com/2009/1 ... &eref=sihp
Phils Should Have Kept Halladay and Lee
Jay Mariotti
It's good to know that the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox and Mariners are doing big business this winter. That means four teams seem serious about being the best they can be, which would be a titillating thought if we were talking college basketball in April. But we're not.
Major League Baseball is a 30-team enterprise, and, once again, we're left with the sort of competitive imbalance that basically eliminates two dozen teams from World Series title consideration weeks before pitchers and catchers report. I realize that this sport has been hit by the recession, too, but I also suspect some franchise owners are using the economic crisis as a convenient reason to cut costs and corners when, in truth, they have the money to make improvements. There is a dirty word for this collective financial inertia.
Collusion.
So you'd better appreciate life in Philadelphia, the Bronx, Boston and Seattle, where recent days have brought significant maneuvers that all but ensure a successful 2010 in those places. The biggest two deals came this week, when the Red Sox signed pitcher John Lackey to a five-year deal that narrows the Yankees' advantage in the starting rotation, followed by a three-way blockbuster between the Phillies, Mariners and Blue Jays that, from a Philadelphia standpoint, is oddly bittersweet.
The front office made a spectacular move in acquiring Roy Halladay, the grand prize of the offseason, a pitching force who will rule the National League much as Cliff Lee did when he joined the Phillies last summer. But here's the rub: Rather than pair up Halladay and Lee for even one season, which would have been one of the all-time dominant collaborations (think Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale) and dramatically closed the competitive gap between the Phillies and champion Yankees, the Phillies used the deal to ship Lee -- sigh! -- to the Mariners. For months, the Blue Jays had been trying to pry away Philadelphia's best pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek, only to be rejected. Now, suddenly, the Phillies have relinquished Drabek in the Halladay deal, only to dump Lee when he still has a year remaining on his contract.
Uh, why not just keep Lee for his final season while giving Halladay the contract extension he reportedly has accepted: a guaranteed $60 million for three years and a 2014 vesting option of $20 million? Couldn't the trade have been done straight up with Toronto without including Seattle, especially with the Blue Jays sending $6 million in cash to Philadelphia -- all but offsetting the $8 million owed to Lee next season? I can assure you that Lee, coming off a dazzling second half and a nearly-unhittable postseason after winning the American League Cy Young Award in 2008, will have another monster year. I can anticipate the same for Halladay. So even if the Phillies knew they could afford only one or the other for the long term, they could have kept Lee -- who reportedly was making waves about wanting a contract similar to the $161-million pact signed by his friend and former Cleveland partner in Cy Young crime, C.C. Sabathia -- and undoubtedly been the favorites to win the World Series.
Then, when Lee becomes a free agent next winter, they wave goodbye and thank him for the memories while anointing Halladay as the long-term staff anchor. Instead, the Phillies are no better than they were when they lost the Series to the Yankees in six games: a special pitcher at the top of the rotation and a lot of question marks after him, including Cole Hamels, who was last heard verbally blowing off the season before the Series actually was over. The Phillies got cheaper for the future and received three prospects: pitchers Phillippe Aumont and Juan Ramirez and outfielder Tyson Gillies. But at the major league level, they are no better next season while the Yankees and Red Sox clearly have improved themselves.
Sorry, but I've never understood why a franchise prioritizes the future over its precious present. Sorry, but I've never understood why a franchise prioritizes the future over its precious present. In these tumultuous times when any calamity seems possible, including the apocalypse, why would the Phillies blow off an enhanced opportunity to win another World Series next season because they want to acquire prospects and keep their payroll at $140 million? GO FOR THE JUGULAR when you have the chance, when you're clearly the best team in a National League that finds the Dodgers in a divorce-driven fire sale, the Mets lamely remaining idle while the Yankees dominate the back pages, the Cubs not doing much in the infancy of their new ownership and the Cardinals playing their usual payroll games in middle America. Plus, the Phillies don't know if their prospects will pan out. They don't know if their prospects will remain healthy. They don't know if their prospects will date a Kardashian sister -- or should I say a Lohan or a Spears, now that the combined record of the Saints and Lakers, the teams that feature a Kardashian as an in-house love interest, is 31-4?
It didn't have to be an "either/or." It could have been a "win/win" -- and a second World Series trophy in three years. I shouldn't have to remind Ruben Amaro, the Phillies general manager, that Lee went 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA in five postseason starts, winning twice in the World Series. In fact, if push came to shove, I might have picked Lee over Halladay -- particularly if Lee's agent, Darek Braunecker, is being honest when he says he made no demands for Sabathia-type money and that Lee dearly wanted to remain in Philadelphia for the rest of his career. Instead, the winner of the Yankees-Red Sox scrum will prevail in the Series next October/November, with the once-straggling Mariners in position to make the playoffs by teaming Lee with Felix Hernandez atop the rotation and reaping the versatile benefits of new signee Chone Figgins.
OK, we'll see a few more names signed. The Mets, who have to do something if they want any cred in New York, likely will reach out to Jason Bay. The Cardinals probably will re-sign Matt Holliday, who isn't receiving the offers he expected after his postseason fielding blunder and may sign for less money than he rejected last year in Colorado. But the Red Sox aren't done, either, as they eye third baseman Adrian Beltre and have a $15.5 million offer on the table to Aroldis Chapman, the lefty pitcher from Cuba. And that means the Yankees aren't done, as well, making these teams the two biggest winners.
They'll open the regular season on a Sunday night in April and, most likely, close out the postseason in the AL championship series. For all the grousing about too much East Coast-axis emphasis on this rivalry, it's still the best theater in the sport, by far trumping whatever the Yankees and Phillies gave us. The question now becomes whether the Red Sox, with their specific values on pitching and defense while sacrificing the big bopping of their championship years, have enough to beat the Yankees. Right now, I'd say no. By stealing center fielder Curtis Granderson from Detroit, the Yankees have added another power hitter -- one with speed and defensive skills -- to a lineup that already is the modern-day Murderers Row. They've re-signed Andy Pettitte, which aligns an imposing postseason rotation that also included Sabathia and A.J. Burnett. Maybe they didn't get Halladay, which they hoped could happen in midseason. But next winter, they simply can sign Lee to replace Pettitte.
The Yankees gave up two pitchers, Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy, and outfield prospect Austin Jackson in the three-way deal with Detroit and Arizona. General manager Brian Cashman pretended as if he was torn. "We're excited about what we're getting, and we're distraught about what we gave up at the same time," he said. "It's a tough decision. You're trading the future for here and now."
Here and now is where we are. Remember that if the Yankees win their 28th championship and the Phillies are also-rans again.
And Cliff Lee is 3,000 miles away.
lil bittersweet. lil bit...odd that i would ever feel like that when acquiring a guy like halladay. but it is what it is. fucking hamels better get his shit together for next year. GO PHILS
who is paying Halladay's $16 mil???
since when does spending money guarantee you the WS or even a spot there?? (just ask the Yankees a few years ago)
what's wrong with having flexibility and looking to the future?? I mean how would fans react if the Phils blew their load this season and didn't win the WS, then slowly fell back in the NL East over the next few seasons?? They'd blow their tops.
Read the article by David Murphy at philly.com, where he outlines what the Phils I have tied up in players over the next couple of seasons... its scary how much money is tied into a couple of players after this season.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... ances.html
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Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
I feel exactly the way
Seriously. This is the biggest part - he better find his testicles over the winter. The only reason I marginally liked the guy is because he was winning. If it's not for that, then all he's got is a face that only a closed fist could love.
What's scarier is how many players we DON'T have committed past 2011.
Yeah that's more what I meant, but I think its sort of the nature of baseball right now...
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
why bittersweet? is it because you held out a dream of Lee and Halladay together? that was never a reality. Halladay for 3-4 years is way better than Lee for one. The only question for Amaro is why Drabek and Taylor now and not in June-July? This is a great trade as it gives the Phils a legitimate chance for 3 more years. People act like they didn't come close this year - we took it to game freakin 6 people - it's not like the Yankees totally smoked us - we are still by far the best team in the NL.
True. Just read an interesting comment on ESPN that pretty much summed this whole thing up for me: "Do you guys understand how good Halladay is? I really can't believe that ANYBODY doesn't see how good this deal is for the Phillies. I'm sure you're the same people who were ripping Amaro last year for getting Lee INSTEAD of Halladay."
That'd be interesting to see. All the schmucks that were blasting RAJ for trading for Lee instead of Doc. All I know is - In Amaro I Trust.
well they are schmucks if that is what their argument is. most people i talk to are upset we didnt get both. most people who know what they are talking about realize halladay's the better pitcher. its the whole--going all in for just one year that people are frustrated over.
In a perfect world, Jeags....In a perfect world.
And I watched video of Aumont throwing last night. He'd be a great incumbent to the set up role or closer down the road if he can stay healthy. Nasty stuff.
i was watching video of gillies. he is one speedy mother f'er. looked like michael bourne beating out a bunt and stealing 2nd...
or a world where ruben amaro didnt give jaime moyer 16 million for 2 seasons...
True, but Amaro's hitting like .750(letting Burrell go & signing Raul, trading for Lee then Doc, letting WT Myers go) right now with all the moves he made, so I'm cool.
Apparently every Philly athlete not playing hoops was there...D Jax, the real Leonard Weaver, RyHo, Mike Richard, Riley Cote, Dan Carcillo...
just support the team
.750?
he overpaid for raul, signed moyer to a god awful deal, and failed to find some decent help off the bench last year which came back to haunt us in the ws. letting burrell and myers go were givens.
He overpaid for Raul? You gotta be kidding me. I'm sure you weren't saying that before he got injured. He made 7+ mil last year and averages 10 per over 3 seasons. The man drove in over 90 RBI's, hit over 30 HR's, scored nearly over 90 runs, had an OPS 70 points higher from his career average, was MVP of the NL for the first half of the season, and fought through an abdominal injury all while doing it in the second half. Burrell made over 15 mil the year previous compared to Raul's 7+ mil. Yeah, I think the pros outweigh the cons. Anytime a player can drive in nearly 100 runs and score nearly 100 runs, that in itself is invaluable. The man's a CAREER .300 hitter. Yeah, I think they did alright there. And letting someone like Myers go is not precedent for this organization(not even offering a cheaper deal due to injuries because they don't let home grown talent just walk away.). The bench was pretty much the same as it was in '08. They were hurt down the road(after the trade deadline) due to illness and injury. And the bench they have now is much better than it was last year. My point is Amaro's doing just as much, if not more, than Gillick did before him to sustain a winner. And there's more I can support in his tenure than I can criticize.
i'm not as high on ibanez as most people are. never was. what did he hit, 220 the 2nd half the season? i know he was battling an injury...but that's what you get with an aging vet. you get hurt, it takes longer to recover. next year his numbers will only be worse. you can go back in this thread and see i said the same thing last year. said the same thing about moyer last year as well.
i disagree on myers. he's been hurt a lot, beats his wife, and and hasn't had a productive full season in years. makes sense to let him walk and test the waters...i do think they might bring him back if he's still unsigned in a month or so though.
and with the bench--completely disagree. how was the bench better in 09 than it was in 08 or 07? some of the players were the same but they were not producing like they were. gillick was great at recognizing that and finding guys who could produce (stairs in '08). if gillick were the gm, i'd bet he would have cut stairs and picked up someone else at the deadline. you can't have ben francisco (i know ibanez dh'd but ben was his replacement) as your dh in the world series.
look, i like amaro. i think he's done a nice job. i just think you might be looking at him with red colored goggles here. he's done a nice job. but he's also made mistakes. mistakes that lead to us not being able to have one of the best rotations in the history of the universe!