He overpaid for Raul? You gotta be kidding me. I'm sure you weren't saying that before he got injured. He made 7+ mil last year and averages 10 per over 3 seasons. The man drove in over 90 RBI's, hit over 30 HR's, scored nearly over 90 runs, had an OPS 70 points higher from his career average, was MVP of the NL for the first half of the season, and fought through an abdominal injury all while doing it in the second half. Burrell made over 15 mil the year previous compared to Raul's 7+ mil. Yeah, I think the pros outweigh the cons. Anytime a player can drive in nearly 100 runs and score nearly 100 runs, that in itself is invaluable. The man's a CAREER .300 hitter. Yeah, I think they did alright there. And letting someone like Myers go is not precedent for this organization(not even offering a cheaper deal due to injuries because they don't let home grown talent just walk away.). The bench was pretty much the same as it was in '08. They were hurt down the road(after the trade deadline) due to illness and injury. And the bench they have now is much better than it was last year. My point is Amaro's doing just as much, if not more, than Gillick did before him to sustain a winner. And there's more I can support in his tenure than I can criticize.
i'm not as high on ibanez as most people are. never was. what did he hit, 220 the 2nd half the season? i know he was battling an injury...but that's what you get with an aging vet. you get hurt, it takes longer to recover. next year his numbers will only be worse. you can go back in this thread and see i said the same thing last year. said the same thing about moyer last year as well.
i disagree on myers. he's been hurt a lot, beats his wife, and and hasn't had a productive full season in years. makes sense to let him walk and test the waters...i do think they might bring him back if he's still unsigned in a month or so though.
and with the bench--completely disagree. how was the bench better in 09 than it was in 08 or 07? some of the players were the same but they were not producing like they were. gillick was great at recognizing that and finding guys who could produce (stairs in '08). if gillick were the gm, i'd bet he would have cut stairs and picked up someone else at the deadline. you can't have ben francisco (i know ibanez dh'd but ben was his replacement) as your dh in the world series.
look, i like amaro. i think he's done a nice job. i just think you might be looking at him with red colored goggles here. he's done a nice job. but he's also made mistakes. mistakes that lead to us not being able to have one of the best rotations in the history of the universe! the whole universe!
The injury Raul had was sort of like the injury McNabb had. It needs time to heal. Ibanez will be fine. My point is he cetainly didn't overpay for Ibanez like he's Burrell, or Carl Pavano, or what have you...
I definitely think Myers comes back at the Phils price because he's gonna get shit on the market and he likes being here. He'll probably have to get on his knees and kiss feet.
I said the bench they have NOW is better than it was last year or in '08. I was saying the bench in '09 was the same as in '08. If you want to argue that those players on that bench were handled wrong then that's another story.
I will miss Roy, he's my kind of pitcher, was an utter treat to watch him for 10+
For those of you who love to analyze a player, this guy will suck you in and gain your respect instantly
he will probably win the Cy Young next year, he can dominate game like very few others do right now
he'd probalby be HOF material if in New York or Boston
Deep down I am just glad he is getting more exposure regularly to baseball fans, and I will be watching almost all of his starts on the MLB package next year like I did while in Toronto
If I ever were to bought a baseball jersey I would have put his name on the back hands-down
1998 ~ Barrie
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
I will miss Roy, he's my kind of pitcher, was an utter treat to watch him for 10+
For those of you who love to analyze a player, this guy will suck you in and gain your respect instantly
he will probably win the Cy Young next year, he can dominate game like very few others do right now
he'd probalby be HOF material if in New York or Boston
Deep down I am just glad he is getting more exposure regularly to baseball fans, and I will be watching almost all of his starts on the MLB package next year like I did while in Toronto
If I ever were to bought a baseball jersey I would have put his name on the back hands-down
i would say i feel bad for you, but then i just think about 1993.
After what Cliff Lee said tonight, I am starting to think RAJ is a jerk off and had a hard on for Halladay this whole time. If the guy said he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly then Amaro traded 7 of his top 10 prospects to get Halladay, come on... he could have gotten something worked out with Lee.
If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it
I will miss Roy, he's my kind of pitcher, was an utter treat to watch him for 10+
For those of you who love to analyze a player, this guy will suck you in and gain your respect instantly
he will probably win the Cy Young next year, he can dominate game like very few others do right now
he'd probalby be HOF material if in New York or Boston
Deep down I am just glad he is getting more exposure regularly to baseball fans, and I will be watching almost all of his starts on the MLB package next year like I did while in Toronto
If I ever were to bought a baseball jersey I would have put his name on the back hands-down
i would say i feel bad for you, but then i just think about 1993.
lmao Mitch Williams
1998 ~ Barrie
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
The injury Raul had was sort of like the injury McNabb had. It needs time to heal. Ibanez will be fine. My point is he cetainly didn't overpay for Ibanez like he's Burrell, or Carl Pavano, or what have you...
I definitely think Myers comes back at the Phils price because he's gonna get shit on the market and he likes being here. He'll probably have to get on his knees and kiss feet.
I said the bench they have NOW is better than it was last year or in '08. I was saying the bench in '09 was the same as in '08. If you want to argue that those players on that bench were handled wrong then that's another story.
A 3 year $30 mil contract to a outfielder in the NL in his late 30's is never a good contract. He had half a good year, good luck in the 3rd year of that. This is why I am completely against a 3 year contract for Damon.
It is not like a McNabb injury because there is a good 5 year age difference in that injury.
The injury Raul had was sort of like the injury McNabb had. It needs time to heal. Ibanez will be fine. My point is he cetainly didn't overpay for Ibanez like he's Burrell, or Carl Pavano, or what have you...
I definitely think Myers comes back at the Phils price because he's gonna get shit on the market and he likes being here. He'll probably have to get on his knees and kiss feet.
I said the bench they have NOW is better than it was last year or in '08. I was saying the bench in '09 was the same as in '08. If you want to argue that those players on that bench were handled wrong then that's another story.
A 3 year $30 mil contract to a outfielder in the NL in his late 30's is never a good contract. He had half a good year, good luck in the 3rd year of that. This is why I am completely against a 3 year contract for Damon.
It is not like a McNabb injury because there is a good 5 year age difference in that injury.
Age has nothing to do with an injury that happened to one person at 28, and one at 36. Age would only come into the equation if you said the injury ONLY happens when you get older. The point I'm making is it's not an injury you can recover from during the season if you want to still play. If you want to stick out through the pain, so be it. With four months off, and surgery, it's no longer a problem. Especially for a guy that never had a history of being injury prone.
And if anyone has a hardon for Doc it's me, I'll admit it. And what do you want Lee to say - or his agent? We didn't want to stay, we didn't hope for an extension? I take all that with a grain of salt.
After what Cliff Lee said tonight, I am starting to think RAJ is a jerk off and had a hard on for Halladay this whole time. If the guy said he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly then Amaro traded 7 of his top 10 prospects to get Halladay, come on... he could have gotten something worked out with Lee.
If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it
I just listened to the podcast on espn. Hearing that pisses me off u could here in his voice it wanted to stay here. I love getting halladay but would have rathered keep and signed lee and keep drabek and taylor. Lee was blindsided from what he said and sounded like he would have taken less then market value here as well.
The injury Raul had was sort of like the injury McNabb had. It needs time to heal. Ibanez will be fine. My point is he cetainly didn't overpay for Ibanez like he's Burrell, or Carl Pavano, or what have you...
I definitely think Myers comes back at the Phils price because he's gonna get shit on the market and he likes being here. He'll probably have to get on his knees and kiss feet.
I said the bench they have NOW is better than it was last year or in '08. I was saying the bench in '09 was the same as in '08. If you want to argue that those players on that bench were handled wrong then that's another story.
A 3 year $30 mil contract to a outfielder in the NL in his late 30's is never a good contract. He had half a good year, good luck in the 3rd year of that. This is why I am completely against a 3 year contract for Damon.
It is not like a McNabb injury because there is a good 5 year age difference in that injury.
Age has nothing to do with an injury that happened to one person at 28, and one at 36. Age would only come into the equation if you said the injury ONLY happens when you get older. The point I'm making is it's not an injury you can recover from during the season if you want to still play. If you want to stick out through the pain, so be it. With four months off, and surgery, it's no longer a problem. Especially for a guy that never had a history of being injury prone.
And if anyone has a hardon for Doc it's me, I'll admit it. And what do you want Lee to say - or his agent? We didn't want to stay, we didn't hope for an extension? I take all that with a grain of salt.
My point is that an injury will heal much quicker at 28 than it will at 36 and it will be a lot less nagging. Was it a great move letting Burrell go? For sure, but I really dont know about signing a 36 year old to a 3 year, 30 mil deal. That is very risky.
Lee had no incentive to say anything. He gets nothing out of saying he was disappointed in being traded. He has every right to the big contract that he has never had and no one would think less of him for saying so. I really don't think he would say he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly unless he meant it.
Fuck me, if the Mariners sign Damon, god damn that is a scary team.
After what Cliff Lee said tonight, I am starting to think RAJ is a jerk off and had a hard on for Halladay this whole time. If the guy said he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly then Amaro traded 7 of his top 10 prospects to get Halladay, come on... he could have gotten something worked out with Lee.
If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it
I just listened to the podcast on espn. Hearing that pisses me off u could here in his voice it wanted to stay here. I love getting halladay but would have rathered keep and signed lee and keep drabek and taylor. Lee was blindsided from what he said and sounded like he would have taken less then market value here as well.
That's all well and good. But tell me how this helps them past 2010? What's below market value for Lee - 17, 18, 19? Tell me how they afford to pay that after 2010 when there's about every other position on the field to sign first? The BIGGEST contractual decision this organization HAS to make is to sign Howard to an extension when his contract's up. So there's 20-25 per right there you gotta sign, then Cole, Jimmy, Werth's due a huge pay day, Victorino. People forget that we're not the Yankees and past 2011 they have to dole out some serious money to a lot of everyday players.
My point is that an injury will heal much quicker at 28 than it will at 36 and it will be a lot less nagging. Was it a great move letting Burrell go? For sure, but I really dont know about signing a 36 year old to a 3 year, 30 mil deal. That is very risky.
Lee had no incentive to say anything. He gets nothing out of saying he was disappointed in being traded. He has every right to the big contract that he has never had and no one would think less of him for saying so. I really don't think he would say he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly unless he meant it.
Fuck me, if the Mariners sign Damon, god damn that is a scary team.
Maybe you have a point there. But if you look at it through his eyes - come from a shitty city dishing payroll to a passionate metropolitan city and your first time in your life not only are you in the playoffs but the World Series - of course you would have some sentimentality for this city. But again, it's not Clif dealing with any of the contractual content of the business, it's his agent. And his agent Derek Whatever-his-name-is was on WIP and said most of the same stuff, and so I say, I take it with a grain of salt.
M's need some more power than Damon, but that's definitely not a move in the wrong direction. I don't like their rotation past Felix and Lee though. Snell's okay at best, but that division is very winnable now. Like I said before, probably my favorite division race to watch next season.
Oh, and mark it down, this Aumont dude will be the next closer for the Phils. The more I read and watch video of him, the more I like his stuff. He's gotta stop flicking his arm from his elbow though.
After what Cliff Lee said tonight, I am starting to think RAJ is a jerk off and had a hard on for Halladay this whole time. If the guy said he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly then Amaro traded 7 of his top 10 prospects to get Halladay, come on... he could have gotten something worked out with Lee.
If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it
I just listened to the podcast on espn. Hearing that pisses me off u could here in his voice it wanted to stay here. I love getting halladay but would have rathered keep and signed lee and keep drabek and taylor. Lee was blindsided from what he said and sounded like he would have taken less then market value here as well.
From an outside perspective and a baseball fan overall I agree.
Cliff Lee and Halladay may only be a year or so apart in age but Halladay has over 800 more innings on his arm.
I will say, the way Cliff Lee ran off the mound in the World Series after every inning was one of the most impressive things I have ever seen. Not saying you wont get that out of Halladay but Lee was great! If he wanted to stay, Amaro should have kept him.
After what Cliff Lee said tonight, I am starting to think RAJ is a jerk off and had a hard on for Halladay this whole time. If the guy said he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly then Amaro traded 7 of his top 10 prospects to get Halladay, come on... he could have gotten something worked out with Lee.
If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it
I just listened to the podcast on espn. Hearing that pisses me off u could here in his voice it wanted to stay here. I love getting halladay but would have rathered keep and signed lee and keep drabek and taylor. Lee was blindsided from what he said and sounded like he would have taken less then market value here as well.
From an outside perspective and a baseball fan overall I agree.
Cliff Lee and Halladay may only be a year or so apart in age but Halladay has over 800 more innings on his arm.
I will say, the way Cliff Lee ran off the mound in the World Series after every inning was one of the most impressive things I have ever seen. Not saying you wont get that out of Halladay but Lee was great! If he wanted to stay, Amaro should have kept him.
Exactly, Lee was lights out in the post season....as a Met fan, I'm good with this....who cares if Halladay gets a few more wins during the regular season, I was more scared of Lee in big spots...anyway, let's go Jets..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
ALSO, if the Dodgers get their shit together by the end of next season Clif Lee WILL be a Dodger. They don't have a bonafide ace, not spending much money this year, Manny will be off the books(maybe), and will need dominant lefty to combat with the Fightin's. Cliff will get his pay day. And it will be sorta funny - the not funny part will be him dominating us.
After what Cliff Lee said tonight, I am starting to think RAJ is a jerk off and had a hard on for Halladay this whole time. If the guy said he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly then Amaro traded 7 of his top 10 prospects to get Halladay, come on... he could have gotten something worked out with Lee.
If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it
I just listened to the podcast on espn. Hearing that pisses me off u could here in his voice it wanted to stay here. I love getting halladay but would have rathered keep and signed lee and keep drabek and taylor. Lee was blindsided from what he said and sounded like he would have taken less then market value here as well.
That's all well and good. But tell me how this helps them past 2010? What's below market value for Lee - 17, 18, 19? Tell me how they afford to pay that after 2010 when there's about every other position on the field to sign first? The BIGGEST contractual decision this organization HAS to make is to sign Howard to an extension when his contract's up. So there's 20-25 per right there you gotta sign, then Cole, Jimmy, Werth's due a huge pay day, Victorino. People forget that we're not the Yankees and past 2011 they have to dole out some serious money to a lot of everyday players.
If They can afford halladay at 20 mill then how couldn't they afford Lee at 17-19 million? 2010 and after they have Happ and Drabek in the roation at a very very cheap price since they have there balls for a couple of years. If u lose shane or werth u have taylor and brown at the same cheap price because there not eligable like happ and drabek. Howard will demand major cash and is worth whatever he gets. Not worried about Cole cause he either will suck and be gone or give us a hometown discount and stay. Remember theres a reason why we could get lee and halladay and it cause are farm system is finially good. The farm system and its talent that was here could have filled alot of holes in the future.
My point is that an injury will heal much quicker at 28 than it will at 36 and it will be a lot less nagging. Was it a great move letting Burrell go? For sure, but I really dont know about signing a 36 year old to a 3 year, 30 mil deal. That is very risky.
Lee had no incentive to say anything. He gets nothing out of saying he was disappointed in being traded. He has every right to the big contract that he has never had and no one would think less of him for saying so. I really don't think he would say he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly unless he meant it.
Fuck me, if the Mariners sign Damon, god damn that is a scary team.
Maybe you have a point there. But if you look at it through his eyes - come from a shitty city dishing payroll to a passionate metropolitan city and your first time in your life not only are you in the playoffs but the World Series - of course you would have some sentimentality for this city. But again, it's not Clif dealing with any of the contractual content of the business, it's his agent. And his agent Derek Whatever-his-name-is was on WIP and said most of the same stuff, and so I say, I take it with a grain of salt.
M's need some more power than Damon, but that's definitely not a move in the wrong direction. I don't like their rotation past Felix and Lee though. Snell's okay at best, but that division is very winnable now. Like I said before, probably my favorite division race to watch next season.
Oh, and mark it down, this Aumont dude will be the next closer for the Phils. The more I read and watch video of him, the more I like his stuff. He's gotta stop flicking his arm from his elbow though.
I agree that you have to take what agents say with a gain of salt, that is why I never believed what his Arkansas or Alabama based agent said. When it comes out of his mouth though, I think it is a different story. Just like I dont believe that Damon really thinks the Yankees should not make an offer unless it is $13 mil a year.
You did say that the other day and Snell is not a clown, he may be able to get it done, numbers kind of suck, but scouts think highly. Angels are giving the division away and the M's are all in this year.
I hear Aumont has great stuff, small elbow pain last year but was the #33 best prospect in baseball last year, that is impressive.
I just listened to the podcast on espn. Hearing that pisses me off u could here in his voice it wanted to stay here. I love getting halladay but would have rathered keep and signed lee and keep drabek and taylor. Lee was blindsided from what he said and sounded like he would have taken less then market value here as well.
That's all well and good. But tell me how this helps them past 2010? What's below market value for Lee - 17, 18, 19? Tell me how they afford to pay that after 2010 when there's about every other position on the field to sign first? The BIGGEST contractual decision this organization HAS to make is to sign Howard to an extension when his contract's up. So there's 20-25 per right there you gotta sign, then Cole, Jimmy, Werth's due a huge pay day, Victorino. People forget that we're not the Yankees and past 2011 they have to dole out some serious money to a lot of everyday players.
If They can afford halladay at 20 mill then how couldn't they afford Lee at 17-19 million? 2010 and after they have Happ and Drabek in the roation at a very very cheap price since they have there balls for a couple of years. If u lose shane or werth u have taylor and brown at the same cheap price because there not eligable like happ and drabek. Howard will demand major cash and is worth whatever he gets. Not worried about Cole cause he either will suck and be gone or give us a hometown discount and stay. Remember theres a reason why we could get lee and halladay and it cause are farm system is finially good. The farm system and its talent that was here could have filled alot of holes in the future.
1. You tell me how they afford both those contracts for both those pitchers over the long term?
2. How do you know Brown and Talyor will become the players everyone sucking their balls think they'll become?
3. Talk about being unappreciative. Cole Hamels is only 25 - going on 26 - fucking years old and has been absolutely stellar. I don't know if you remember this, but he helped win a world fucking championship. Yes, he had a very average year last year, but that's worth giving up on when he has had 3 solid years and one mediocre one??? That's just fucking preposterous.
4. Happ's not that good. He's a solid #4 - maybe #3 at best.
After what Cliff Lee said tonight, I am starting to think RAJ is a jerk off and had a hard on for Halladay this whole time. If the guy said he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly then Amaro traded 7 of his top 10 prospects to get Halladay, come on... he could have gotten something worked out with Lee.
If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it
I just listened to the podcast on espn. Hearing that pisses me off u could here in his voice it wanted to stay here. I love getting halladay but would have rathered keep and signed lee and keep drabek and taylor. Lee was blindsided from what he said and sounded like he would have taken less then market value here as well.
That's all well and good. But tell me how this helps them past 2010? What's below market value for Lee - 17, 18, 19? Tell me how they afford to pay that after 2010 when there's about every other position on the field to sign first? The BIGGEST contractual decision this organization HAS to make is to sign Howard to an extension when his contract's up. So there's 20-25 per right there you gotta sign, then Cole, Jimmy, Werth's due a huge pay day, Victorino. People forget that we're not the Yankees and past 2011 they have to dole out some serious money to a lot of everyday players.
Dude, I think you are insane if you think the Phillies are going to dish out the money for Howard. While his defense was much better this year, he is going to take way to many years and dollars for any NL team to afford him. I really don't think it makes sense for anyone in the NL to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal with the dollars higher than Tex which you know he is going to ask for.
It all depends on what Lee was willing to sign an extension for. If they could have signed him for a little more and maybe a year longer than Halladay and kept Drabek, I seen no reason to do that. No matter what, it sounds like there should have been more dialouge between Amaro and Lee's agent than there was. I do think the Phillies jumped the gun on this trade.
That's all well and good. But tell me how this helps them past 2010? What's below market value for Lee - 17, 18, 19? Tell me how they afford to pay that after 2010 when there's about every other position on the field to sign first? The BIGGEST contractual decision this organization HAS to make is to sign Howard to an extension when his contract's up. So there's 20-25 per right there you gotta sign, then Cole, Jimmy, Werth's due a huge pay day, Victorino. People forget that we're not the Yankees and past 2011 they have to dole out some serious money to a lot of everyday players.[/quote]
If They can afford halladay at 20 mill then how couldn't they afford Lee at 17-19 million? 2010 and after they have Happ and Drabek in the roation at a very very cheap price since they have there balls for a couple of years. If u lose shane or werth u have taylor and brown at the same cheap price because there not eligable like happ and drabek. Howard will demand major cash and is worth whatever he gets. Not worried about Cole cause he either will suck and be gone or give us a hometown discount and stay. Remember theres a reason why we could get lee and halladay and it cause are farm system is finially good. The farm system and its talent that was here could have filled alot of holes in the future.[/quote]
1. You tell me how they afford both those contracts for both those pitchers over the long term?
Im saying this as if we didnt make the halladay trade
2. How do you know Brown and Talyor will become the players everyone sucking their balls think they'll become?
How do u know that halladay will be better in the nl then lee was. Lee was pretty damn lights out and even if halladay is better your talkn about such a small difference does it really matter then. Lee had the greatest postseason i've ever seen.
3. Talk about being unappreciative. Cole Hamels is only 25 - going on 26 - fucking years old and has been absolutely stellar. I don't know if you remember this, but he helped win a world fucking championship. Yes, he had a very average year last year, but that's worth giving up on when he has had 3 solid years and one mediocre one??? That's just fucking preposterous.
Never said anything about giving up on cole i said he will either be cole from 2yrs ago and be worth resigning
or cole from last year and not. He will let us know bye his performance alone.
4. Happ's not that good. He's a solid #4 - maybe #3 at best.[/quote]
1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
Dude, I think you are insane if you think the Phillies are going to dish out the money for Howard. While his defense was much better this year, he is going to take way to many years and dollars for any NL team to afford him. I really don't think it makes sense for anyone in the NL to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal with the dollars higher than Tex which you know he is going to ask for.
It all depends on what Lee was willing to sign an extension for. If they could have signed him for a little more and maybe a year longer than Halladay and kept Drabek, I seen no reason to do that. No matter what, it sounds like there should have been more dialouge between Amaro and Lee's agent than there was. I do think the Phillies jumped the gun on this trade.
I'm not saying a long term extension, I could see the Phils offering him 4years and taking him through about the age of 36 for about 20-22 mil per year. I could see that happening. Extending his contract is crucial for this team because I don't see anyone else coming along that will be putting up 35-40 HR's and at least 120 RBI's in the clean up spot 3 years from now.
1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
Happ is not that good. He'll be a servicable pitcher, but he really isn't as good as his ERA leads you to believe. I'm telling you. He fell lucky to a lot of stats that have to do with pretty much having fielders in the right spots at the right times - aka lots of line drives caught instead of making the gaps. Also, who the fuck KNOWS what Drabek will be??? Remember, he already had Tommy John and he just turned 21.
You're contradicting yourself about rolling out a rotation of Doc, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Drabek. And now trying to say forget all about Doc and just go with Lee. So, again I ask you, how do you afford Doc and Lee long term at the top of this rotation? THAT is the argument.
Oh, and that piece of shit Hamels right? Horrible pitcher right?
1. You tell me how they afford both those contracts for both those pitchers over the long term?
2. How do you know Brown and Talyor will become the players everyone sucking their balls think they'll become?
3. Talk about being unappreciative. Cole Hamels is only 25 - going on 26 - fucking years old and has been absolutely stellar. I don't know if you remember this, but he helped win a world fucking championship. Yes, he had a very average year last year, but that's worth giving up on when he has had 3 solid years and one mediocre one??? That's just fucking preposterous.
4. Happ's not that good. He's a solid #4 - maybe #3 at best.
1. They would never afford both of them past this year. That is impossible, even for the Yankees. That is a fact.
2. Prospects are prospects, you never know. They Yankees traded a player they hope to be Granderson for Granderson. I will trade an outfield prospect for a pitcher any day though. It is more about the situation with this trade.
3. As The Jeagler has said many times, Cole is the key to the Phillies, could be a good thing could be an awful thing. I personally think he is a bitch and his wife if is a retard but whatever. Hope that does not offend anyone.
4. Happ was rated as a #3 starter. Scouts are right 99% of the time. They know what they are looking at.
My problem with this trade is that the Phillies gave up 7 of their top 10 prospects and got back a possible closer and decent outfielder for Halladay when maybe they could have signed Lee to an extension and only given up a few prospects.
I know you are a huge fan of Amaro, but is it possible he might have been a bit too aggressive on this one?
My point is that an injury will heal much quicker at 28 than it will at 36 and it will be a lot less nagging. Was it a great move letting Burrell go? For sure, but I really dont know about signing a 36 year old to a 3 year, 30 mil deal. That is very risky.
Lee had no incentive to say anything. He gets nothing out of saying he was disappointed in being traded. He has every right to the big contract that he has never had and no one would think less of him for saying so. I really don't think he would say he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly unless he meant it.
Fuck me, if the Mariners sign Damon, god damn that is a scary team.
Maybe you have a point there. But if you look at it through his eyes - come from a shitty city dishing payroll to a passionate metropolitan city and your first time in your life not only are you in the playoffs but the World Series - of course you would have some sentimentality for this city. But again, it's not Clif dealing with any of the contractual content of the business, it's his agent. And his agent Derek Whatever-his-name-is was on WIP and said most of the same stuff, and so I say, I take it with a grain of salt.
Well Lee should have been in the playoffs in 2007 if he didn't go 2-8 with a 6.40 era against the AL. He did go 3-0 with 3.17 era in interleague play and got passed over by Paul Byrd and Jake Westbrook. If he pitched anything like he did the 2 years before or after Cleveland probably wins the World Series and he and C.C. are still with the tribe. He was with Cleveland on the bench though during their playoff run, but I digress.
I would love if both Lee and Halladay were here, but it wasn't meant to be. Plus if that 140 mil number is a hard number for the Phils and that's a really high number when you consider only 3 teams have ever had payroll that high (Yankees every year since 2003, Boston in 2007 and the Mets last year) the Phils have a lot of tough decisions because the only payroll coming off next year is Blanton and Moyer and the Phils will need 2 starting pitchers to replace them and have to deal with Werth being a free agent, whether or not to pick up J Roll's option and Victorino's future.
They already have 105 million committed for 2011 not counting Werth, Victorino and Rollins and 2 starting pitchers unless Kendrick comes around and then you only need one.
Wow, I can't believe so many of you are lost on this..anyway, suck my sack..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Dude, I think you are insane if you think the Phillies are going to dish out the money for Howard. While his defense was much better this year, he is going to take way to many years and dollars for any NL team to afford him. I really don't think it makes sense for anyone in the NL to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal with the dollars higher than Tex which you know he is going to ask for.
It all depends on what Lee was willing to sign an extension for. If they could have signed him for a little more and maybe a year longer than Halladay and kept Drabek, I seen no reason to do that. No matter what, it sounds like there should have been more dialouge between Amaro and Lee's agent than there was. I do think the Phillies jumped the gun on this trade.
I'm not saying a long term extension, I could see the Phils offering him 4years and taking him through about the age of 36 for about 20-22 mil per year. I could see that happening. Extending his contract is crucial for this team because I don't see anyone else coming along that will be putting up 35-40 HR's and at least 120 RBI's in the clean up spot 3 years from now.
I definitely think it is important for the Phillies to try and resign him but I also think an AL team will sign him for 6 years or so. I really dont think the Phillies have a shot a retaining him and I dont think they should if it gets over 4 years like you say. Can you imagine his bat as a DH? It would be fucking brutal.
1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
Happ is not that good. He'll be a servicable pitcher, but he really isn't as good as his ERA leads you to believe. I'm telling you. He fell lucky to a lot of stats that have to do with pretty much having fielders in the right spots at the right times - aka lots of line drives caught instead of making the gaps. Also, who the fuck KNOWS what Drabek will be??? Remember, he already had Tommy John and he just turned 21.
Happ had a very fluky season. I remember reading something this year on ESPN or a blog about how he was really lucky with men on base and had an incredible batting average against in those situations on balls put into play and that it will even out over time. That said I like him, but his trade value never will be higher than it was this year.
Dude, I think you are insane if you think the Phillies are going to dish out the money for Howard. While his defense was much better this year, he is going to take way to many years and dollars for any NL team to afford him. I really don't think it makes sense for anyone in the NL to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal with the dollars higher than Tex which you know he is going to ask for.
It all depends on what Lee was willing to sign an extension for. If they could have signed him for a little more and maybe a year longer than Halladay and kept Drabek, I seen no reason to do that. No matter what, it sounds like there should have been more dialouge between Amaro and Lee's agent than there was. I do think the Phillies jumped the gun on this trade.
I'm not saying a long term extension, I could see the Phils offering him 4years and taking him through about the age of 36 for about 20-22 mil per year. I could see that happening. Extending his contract is crucial for this team because I don't see anyone else coming along that will be putting up 35-40 HR's and at least 120 RBI's in the clean up spot 3 years from now.
I definitely think it is important for the Phillies to try and resign him but I also think an AL team will sign him for 6 years or so. I really dont think the Phillies have a shot a retaining him and I dont think they should if it gets over 4 years like you say. Can you imagine his bat as a DH? It would be fucking brutal.
If the Red Sox get A Gon which they're trying to do and the Yanks have Tex, the two biggest suitors for Howard have dried up unless he wants to be a DH and I think he has too much pride to do that early in his career so the Phils might have a better shot at extending him than people think.
1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
Happ is not that good. He'll be a servicable pitcher, but he really isn't as good as his ERA leads you to believe. I'm telling you. He fell lucky to a lot of stats that have to do with pretty much having fielders in the right spots at the right times - aka lots of line drives caught instead of making the gaps. Also, who the fuck KNOWS what Drabek will be??? Remember, he already had Tommy John and he just turned 21.
You're contradicting yourself about rolling out a rotation of Doc, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Drabek. And now trying to say forget all about Doc and just go with Lee. So, again I ask you, how do you afford Doc and Lee long term at the top of this rotation? THAT is the argument.
Oh, and that piece of shit Hamels right? Horrible pitcher right?
Never did i say have a rotation with halladay and lee. I said if we DIDNT do the Halladay trade and instead resigned lee to a 3-5 yr deal at lets say 18million a year. When did i say anything bad about hamels??? I believe i said either he will either be cole from last year and not be worth resigning or will be cole from 2yrs ago and be worth resigning. I think its funny how u say i bad mouthed hamels but u pretty much said happ is a bum who got lucky. Drabek or Aumont i'd say Drabek has a much higher ceiling. And he has a last name that already tells u he's a gamer.
From everything I have read Happ is a number 3 at best. I trust scouts these days, they dont usually fuck up. Small sample size and impressive stuff, hitters will catch up.
Is this not why baseball is the greatest sport? The Colts are undefeated and playing tonight and we are debating baseball. I fucking love this game.
Comments
GO PHILS!
The injury Raul had was sort of like the injury McNabb had. It needs time to heal. Ibanez will be fine. My point is he cetainly didn't overpay for Ibanez like he's Burrell, or Carl Pavano, or what have you...
I definitely think Myers comes back at the Phils price because he's gonna get shit on the market and he likes being here. He'll probably have to get on his knees and kiss feet.
I said the bench they have NOW is better than it was last year or in '08. I was saying the bench in '09 was the same as in '08. If you want to argue that those players on that bench were handled wrong then that's another story.
Here. This will make you smile...
http://www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2009/12/17/ ... heir-place
For those of you who love to analyze a player, this guy will suck you in and gain your respect instantly
he will probably win the Cy Young next year, he can dominate game like very few others do right now
he'd probalby be HOF material if in New York or Boston
Deep down I am just glad he is getting more exposure regularly to baseball fans, and I will be watching almost all of his starts on the MLB package next year like I did while in Toronto
If I ever were to bought a baseball jersey I would have put his name on the back hands-down
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
i would say i feel bad for you, but then i just think about 1993.
If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it
lmao Mitch Williams
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
A 3 year $30 mil contract to a outfielder in the NL in his late 30's is never a good contract. He had half a good year, good luck in the 3rd year of that. This is why I am completely against a 3 year contract for Damon.
It is not like a McNabb injury because there is a good 5 year age difference in that injury.
Age has nothing to do with an injury that happened to one person at 28, and one at 36. Age would only come into the equation if you said the injury ONLY happens when you get older. The point I'm making is it's not an injury you can recover from during the season if you want to still play. If you want to stick out through the pain, so be it. With four months off, and surgery, it's no longer a problem. Especially for a guy that never had a history of being injury prone.
And if anyone has a hardon for Doc it's me, I'll admit it. And what do you want Lee to say - or his agent? We didn't want to stay, we didn't hope for an extension? I take all that with a grain of salt.
My point is that an injury will heal much quicker at 28 than it will at 36 and it will be a lot less nagging. Was it a great move letting Burrell go? For sure, but I really dont know about signing a 36 year old to a 3 year, 30 mil deal. That is very risky.
Lee had no incentive to say anything. He gets nothing out of saying he was disappointed in being traded. He has every right to the big contract that he has never had and no one would think less of him for saying so. I really don't think he would say he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly unless he meant it.
Fuck me, if the Mariners sign Damon, god damn that is a scary team.
That's all well and good. But tell me how this helps them past 2010? What's below market value for Lee - 17, 18, 19? Tell me how they afford to pay that after 2010 when there's about every other position on the field to sign first? The BIGGEST contractual decision this organization HAS to make is to sign Howard to an extension when his contract's up. So there's 20-25 per right there you gotta sign, then Cole, Jimmy, Werth's due a huge pay day, Victorino. People forget that we're not the Yankees and past 2011 they have to dole out some serious money to a lot of everyday players.
Maybe you have a point there. But if you look at it through his eyes - come from a shitty city dishing payroll to a passionate metropolitan city and your first time in your life not only are you in the playoffs but the World Series - of course you would have some sentimentality for this city. But again, it's not Clif dealing with any of the contractual content of the business, it's his agent. And his agent Derek Whatever-his-name-is was on WIP and said most of the same stuff, and so I say, I take it with a grain of salt.
M's need some more power than Damon, but that's definitely not a move in the wrong direction. I don't like their rotation past Felix and Lee though. Snell's okay at best, but that division is very winnable now. Like I said before, probably my favorite division race to watch next season.
Oh, and mark it down, this Aumont dude will be the next closer for the Phils. The more I read and watch video of him, the more I like his stuff. He's gotta stop flicking his arm from his elbow though.
From an outside perspective and a baseball fan overall I agree.
Cliff Lee and Halladay may only be a year or so apart in age but Halladay has over 800 more innings on his arm.
I will say, the way Cliff Lee ran off the mound in the World Series after every inning was one of the most impressive things I have ever seen. Not saying you wont get that out of Halladay but Lee was great! If he wanted to stay, Amaro should have kept him.
Exactly, Lee was lights out in the post season....as a Met fan, I'm good with this....who cares if Halladay gets a few more wins during the regular season, I was more scared of Lee in big spots...anyway, let's go Jets..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
I agree that you have to take what agents say with a gain of salt, that is why I never believed what his Arkansas or Alabama based agent said. When it comes out of his mouth though, I think it is a different story. Just like I dont believe that Damon really thinks the Yankees should not make an offer unless it is $13 mil a year.
You did say that the other day and Snell is not a clown, he may be able to get it done, numbers kind of suck, but scouts think highly. Angels are giving the division away and the M's are all in this year.
I hear Aumont has great stuff, small elbow pain last year but was the #33 best prospect in baseball last year, that is impressive.
1. You tell me how they afford both those contracts for both those pitchers over the long term?
2. How do you know Brown and Talyor will become the players everyone sucking their balls think they'll become?
3. Talk about being unappreciative. Cole Hamels is only 25 - going on 26 - fucking years old and has been absolutely stellar. I don't know if you remember this, but he helped win a world fucking championship. Yes, he had a very average year last year, but that's worth giving up on when he has had 3 solid years and one mediocre one??? That's just fucking preposterous.
4. Happ's not that good. He's a solid #4 - maybe #3 at best.
Dude, I think you are insane if you think the Phillies are going to dish out the money for Howard. While his defense was much better this year, he is going to take way to many years and dollars for any NL team to afford him. I really don't think it makes sense for anyone in the NL to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal with the dollars higher than Tex which you know he is going to ask for.
It all depends on what Lee was willing to sign an extension for. If they could have signed him for a little more and maybe a year longer than Halladay and kept Drabek, I seen no reason to do that. No matter what, it sounds like there should have been more dialouge between Amaro and Lee's agent than there was. I do think the Phillies jumped the gun on this trade.
If They can afford halladay at 20 mill then how couldn't they afford Lee at 17-19 million? 2010 and after they have Happ and Drabek in the roation at a very very cheap price since they have there balls for a couple of years. If u lose shane or werth u have taylor and brown at the same cheap price because there not eligable like happ and drabek. Howard will demand major cash and is worth whatever he gets. Not worried about Cole cause he either will suck and be gone or give us a hometown discount and stay. Remember theres a reason why we could get lee and halladay and it cause are farm system is finially good. The farm system and its talent that was here could have filled alot of holes in the future.[/quote]
1. You tell me how they afford both those contracts for both those pitchers over the long term?
Im saying this as if we didnt make the halladay trade
2. How do you know Brown and Talyor will become the players everyone sucking their balls think they'll become?
How do u know that halladay will be better in the nl then lee was. Lee was pretty damn lights out and even if halladay is better your talkn about such a small difference does it really matter then. Lee had the greatest postseason i've ever seen.
3. Talk about being unappreciative. Cole Hamels is only 25 - going on 26 - fucking years old and has been absolutely stellar. I don't know if you remember this, but he helped win a world fucking championship. Yes, he had a very average year last year, but that's worth giving up on when he has had 3 solid years and one mediocre one??? That's just fucking preposterous.
Never said anything about giving up on cole i said he will either be cole from 2yrs ago and be worth resigning
or cole from last year and not. He will let us know bye his performance alone.
4. Happ's not that good. He's a solid #4 - maybe #3 at best.[/quote]
1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
I'm not saying a long term extension, I could see the Phils offering him 4years and taking him through about the age of 36 for about 20-22 mil per year. I could see that happening. Extending his contract is crucial for this team because I don't see anyone else coming along that will be putting up 35-40 HR's and at least 120 RBI's in the clean up spot 3 years from now.
Happ is not that good. He'll be a servicable pitcher, but he really isn't as good as his ERA leads you to believe. I'm telling you. He fell lucky to a lot of stats that have to do with pretty much having fielders in the right spots at the right times - aka lots of line drives caught instead of making the gaps. Also, who the fuck KNOWS what Drabek will be??? Remember, he already had Tommy John and he just turned 21.
You're contradicting yourself about rolling out a rotation of Doc, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Drabek. And now trying to say forget all about Doc and just go with Lee. So, again I ask you, how do you afford Doc and Lee long term at the top of this rotation? THAT is the argument.
Oh, and that piece of shit Hamels right? Horrible pitcher right?
1. They would never afford both of them past this year. That is impossible, even for the Yankees. That is a fact.
2. Prospects are prospects, you never know. They Yankees traded a player they hope to be Granderson for Granderson. I will trade an outfield prospect for a pitcher any day though. It is more about the situation with this trade.
3. As The Jeagler has said many times, Cole is the key to the Phillies, could be a good thing could be an awful thing. I personally think he is a bitch and his wife if is a retard but whatever. Hope that does not offend anyone.
4. Happ was rated as a #3 starter. Scouts are right 99% of the time. They know what they are looking at.
My problem with this trade is that the Phillies gave up 7 of their top 10 prospects and got back a possible closer and decent outfielder for Halladay when maybe they could have signed Lee to an extension and only given up a few prospects.
I know you are a huge fan of Amaro, but is it possible he might have been a bit too aggressive on this one?
Well Lee should have been in the playoffs in 2007 if he didn't go 2-8 with a 6.40 era against the AL. He did go 3-0 with 3.17 era in interleague play and got passed over by Paul Byrd and Jake Westbrook. If he pitched anything like he did the 2 years before or after Cleveland probably wins the World Series and he and C.C. are still with the tribe. He was with Cleveland on the bench though during their playoff run, but I digress.
I would love if both Lee and Halladay were here, but it wasn't meant to be. Plus if that 140 mil number is a hard number for the Phils and that's a really high number when you consider only 3 teams have ever had payroll that high (Yankees every year since 2003, Boston in 2007 and the Mets last year) the Phils have a lot of tough decisions because the only payroll coming off next year is Blanton and Moyer and the Phils will need 2 starting pitchers to replace them and have to deal with Werth being a free agent, whether or not to pick up J Roll's option and Victorino's future.
They already have 105 million committed for 2011 not counting Werth, Victorino and Rollins and 2 starting pitchers unless Kendrick comes around and then you only need one.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
I definitely think it is important for the Phillies to try and resign him but I also think an AL team will sign him for 6 years or so. I really dont think the Phillies have a shot a retaining him and I dont think they should if it gets over 4 years like you say. Can you imagine his bat as a DH? It would be fucking brutal.
Happ had a very fluky season. I remember reading something this year on ESPN or a blog about how he was really lucky with men on base and had an incredible batting average against in those situations on balls put into play and that it will even out over time. That said I like him, but his trade value never will be higher than it was this year.
Also, Drabek just turned 22 last week.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
If the Red Sox get A Gon which they're trying to do and the Yanks have Tex, the two biggest suitors for Howard have dried up unless he wants to be a DH and I think he has too much pride to do that early in his career so the Phils might have a better shot at extending him than people think.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Never did i say have a rotation with halladay and lee. I said if we DIDNT do the Halladay trade and instead resigned lee to a 3-5 yr deal at lets say 18million a year. When did i say anything bad about hamels??? I believe i said either he will either be cole from last year and not be worth resigning or will be cole from 2yrs ago and be worth resigning. I think its funny how u say i bad mouthed hamels but u pretty much said happ is a bum who got lucky. Drabek or Aumont i'd say Drabek has a much higher ceiling. And he has a last name that already tells u he's a gamer.
Is this not why baseball is the greatest sport? The Colts are undefeated and playing tonight and we are debating baseball. I fucking love this game.