So when arod breaks the all time RBI mark, he is the best player in the history of the game, right?
I don't think anyone would ever deny that he is a great player, and one of the greatest hitters of all time.
WAR sounds like the stats my company comes up with every year to screw us out of bonsues and raises.
I agee, but I also don't think he is the best hitter of all time based on RBI numbers. One of, but not best.
When I get a few minutes I may try it but I think if you look at the top 10 players in terms of all time WAR and comparing that to the top 10 based on RBIs, the WAR will give you a much better list.
So when arod breaks the all time RBI mark, he is the best player in the history of the game, right?
I don't think anyone would ever deny that he is a great player, and one of the greatest hitters of all time.
WAR sounds like the stats my company comes up with every year to screw us out of bonsues and raises.
I agee, but I also don't think he is the best hitter of all time based on RBI numbers. One of, but not best.
When I get a few minutes I may try it but I think if you look at the top 10 players in terms of all time WAR and comparing that to the top 10 based on RBIs, the WAR will give you a much better list.
who is saying whoever is the alltime leader in rbi's must be the greatest hitter ever? ....i don't believe anyone is. :? :roll:
2011 Philadelphia Phillies: A Bad Team with the Best Record in MLB
In politics, they say that “perception is reality.” Fortunately, they do not say this in professional sports, because if they did, the Philadelphia Phillies would be in real trouble. Take, for example, a conversation I had with a Philadelphia friend named Josh and a non-Philadelphia friend named Scott while I was in New Orleans for the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival last weekend.
Scott and I love obscure baseball t-shirts, so while in town I presented him with a “Philadelphia Phillies Opening Week” t-shirt which had been a give-away at Citizens Bank Park during the first homestand of the season. Scott, a lifelong Cubs fan, put on the shirt and said “it feels strange to wear the t-shirt of a winner.”
Then we had the following amusing exchange:
Me: “Wanna see something funny?”
Scott: “Sure.”
Me: “Hey Josh, how do the Phillies look this year?”
Josh: “Oh, we’re so screwed.”
Scott: “Wow.”
Now, from where I sit, Josh’s take on the Phillies is pretty consistent with what Philly fans and sports radio talkers seem to think about the 2011 incarnation of the Fightin’ Phils: that despite the amazing rotation, the bullpen is bad and the offense is anemic, and even if Chase Utley comes back, we’ve got problems.
But is this fair? Are losing perspective? Are our expectations a bit high?
Forget fair; is it even true?
Never mind the fact that the Phils have the best starting rotation in baseball, and Vance Worley appears ready to be a great major league pitcher. Never mind the fact that, with the exception of Raul Ibanez, most of the Phillies’ hitters are having better seasons than they did a year ago. Never mind the fact that the Phillies sell out every game while the other four teams in our division struggle to turn the stiles.
Perhaps the best indicator of just how skewed our perspective is lies in this tasty little statistic:
The Philadelphia Phillies currently have the best record in baseball.
Perspective can be a funny thing in sports. Right now in Kansas City they’re dancing in the streets because the Royals are two games over .500 and in third place in the division. In Pittsburgh optimism is through the roof because the Pirates are one game under .500 and in third place in the division. Meanwhile, Orioles fans are ecstatic just to be ahead of anybody, let alone the Boston Red Sox, in the second week of May.
But back here in Philadelphia, the local faithful are phreaking out because the Phillies have merely won two out of every three games.
Do not misunderstand me: I get it. I understand the consternation. This is a once in a lifetime team, and we have gone figurative (and maybe literally) “all in” on this 2011 squad which seems to be showing signing of stress. With injuries to Chase Utley, Brad Lidge and Roy Oswalt, our offense seems over-matched, our bullpen is a real balancing act and our rotation is showing cracks where we did not expect them.
At the same time, though, one has to wonder whether Philadelphia fans shall ever be happy. This is the city, after all, that absolutely loathes Andy Reid, a man who has almost literally had nothing but success in Philadelphia.
One of the city’s loudest voices, Angelo Cataldi, declares that it is time to run Andre Igoudala out of town after the Philadelphia 76ers, a team that defied odds and over-achieved by even making the playoffs, had the audacity to lose to the Miami freakin’ Heat in the first round of the playoffs.
And now the Phillies merely having the best record in baseball is leaving Phillies’ fans disappointed and listless.
Of course, the reason that “perception is reality” in politics but not in sports is that in politics the voters actually get to vote based on how they perceive the country to be doing or their elected officials to be performing.
In sports, though, the fans do not get to vote, which is a good thing, because if Phillies’ fans were allowed to vote based on their perception of reality, the Phillies might be out of office in a hurry.
Which would be quite the outcome for the best team in baseball.
2011 Philadelphia Phillies: A Bad Team with the Best Record in MLB
In politics, they say that “perception is reality.” Fortunately, they do not say this in professional sports, because if they did, the Philadelphia Phillies would be in real trouble. Take, for example, a conversation I had with a Philadelphia friend named Josh and a non-Philadelphia friend named Scott while I was in New Orleans for the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival last weekend.
Scott and I love obscure baseball t-shirts, so while in town I presented him with a “Philadelphia Phillies Opening Week” t-shirt which had been a give-away at Citizens Bank Park during the first homestand of the season. Scott, a lifelong Cubs fan, put on the shirt and said “it feels strange to wear the t-shirt of a winner.”
Then we had the following amusing exchange:
Me: “Wanna see something funny?”
Scott: “Sure.”
Me: “Hey Josh, how do the Phillies look this year?”
Josh: “Oh, we’re so screwed.”
Scott: “Wow.”
Now, from where I sit, Josh’s take on the Phillies is pretty consistent with what Philly fans and sports radio talkers seem to think about the 2011 incarnation of the Fightin’ Phils: that despite the amazing rotation, the bullpen is bad and the offense is anemic, and even if Chase Utley comes back, we’ve got problems.
But is this fair? Are losing perspective? Are our expectations a bit high?
Forget fair; is it even true?
Never mind the fact that the Phils have the best starting rotation in baseball, and Vance Worley appears ready to be a great major league pitcher. Never mind the fact that, with the exception of Raul Ibanez, most of the Phillies’ hitters are having better seasons than they did a year ago. Never mind the fact that the Phillies sell out every game while the other four teams in our division struggle to turn the stiles.
Perhaps the best indicator of just how skewed our perspective is lies in this tasty little statistic:
The Philadelphia Phillies currently have the best record in baseball.
Perspective can be a funny thing in sports. Right now in Kansas City they’re dancing in the streets because the Royals are two games over .500 and in third place in the division. In Pittsburgh optimism is through the roof because the Pirates are one game under .500 and in third place in the division. Meanwhile, Orioles fans are ecstatic just to be ahead of anybody, let alone the Boston Red Sox, in the second week of May.
But back here in Philadelphia, the local faithful are phreaking out because the Phillies have merely won two out of every three games.
Do not misunderstand me: I get it. I understand the consternation. This is a once in a lifetime team, and we have gone figurative (and maybe literally) “all in” on this 2011 squad which seems to be showing signing of stress. With injuries to Chase Utley, Brad Lidge and Roy Oswalt, our offense seems over-matched, our bullpen is a real balancing act and our rotation is showing cracks where we did not expect them.
At the same time, though, one has to wonder whether Philadelphia fans shall ever be happy. This is the city, after all, that absolutely loathes Andy Reid, a man who has almost literally had nothing but success in Philadelphia.
One of the city’s loudest voices, Angelo Cataldi, declares that it is time to run Andre Igoudala out of town after the Philadelphia 76ers, a team that defied odds and over-achieved by even making the playoffs, had the audacity to lose to the Miami freakin’ Heat in the first round of the playoffs.
And now the Phillies merely having the best record in baseball is leaving Phillies’ fans disappointed and listless.
Of course, the reason that “perception is reality” in politics but not in sports is that in politics the voters actually get to vote based on how they perceive the country to be doing or their elected officials to be performing.
In sports, though, the fans do not get to vote, which is a good thing, because if Phillies’ fans were allowed to vote based on their perception of reality, the Phillies might be out of office in a hurry.
Which would be quite the outcome for the best team in baseball.
bleacherreport is usually pretty spotty (well mostly because it's the angelo's of the world writing on it) but this one is spot on. the negativity out there (and in here) for a team with the best record in baseball is crazy. all everyone talked about last year was 'if we only had lee and halladay together' - well we do. as i said to the Fixer the other day, your choice was lee and halladay or werth and halladay. the right choice was made. lets win the next series.
bleacherreport is usually pretty spotty (well mostly because it's the angelo's of the world writing on it) but this one is spot on. the negativity out there (and in here) for a team with the best record in baseball is crazy. all everyone talked about last year was 'if we only had lee and halladay together' - well we do. as i said to the Fixer the other day, your choice was lee and halladay or werth and halladay. the right choice was made. lets win the next series.
"spotty" is being overly generous. i'd say it is usually garbage. i hate how that stuff takes up most of philly.com's sports area......but yeah, i agree with you for the most part here.
reinforcements not here yet, and we're 24-12.
big early season series starting tonight. can't wait.
So when arod breaks the all time RBI mark, he is the best player in the history of the game, right?
I don't think anyone would ever deny that he is a great player, and one of the greatest hitters of all time.
WAR sounds like the stats my company comes up with every year to screw us out of bonsues and raises.
I agee, but I also don't think he is the best hitter of all time based on RBI numbers. One of, but not best.
When I get a few minutes I may try it but I think if you look at the top 10 players in terms of all time WAR and comparing that to the top 10 based on RBIs, the WAR will give you a much better list.
This is a nice list:
1. Hank Aaron+ 2297 R
2. Babe Ruth+ 2213 L
3. Cap Anson+ 2075 R
4. Barry Bonds 1996 L
5. Lou Gehrig+ 1995 L
6. Stan Musial+ 1951 L
7. Ty Cobb+ 1938 L
8. Jimmie Foxx+ 1922 R
9. Eddie Murray+ 1917 B
10. Willie Mays+ 1903 R
Which WAR are you gonna use? Moe's, Larry's or Curly's?
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
1. Hank Aaron+ 2297 R
2. Babe Ruth+ 2213 L
3. Cap Anson+ 2075 R
4. Barry Bonds 1996 L
5. Lou Gehrig+ 1995 L
6. Stan Musial+ 1951 L
7. Ty Cobb+ 1938 L
8. Jimmie Foxx+ 1922 R
9. Eddie Murray+ 1917 B
10. Willie Mays+ 1903 R
Which WAR are you gonna use? Moe's, Larry's or Curly's?
It is a nice list but I dont think anyone would say that is a top 10 list of the 10 best hitters ever. Willie Mays is 9th.
who is saying whoever is the alltime leader in rbi's must be the greatest hitter ever? ....i don't believe anyone is. :? :roll:
Many people here think RBIs are the end all be all it seems.
i don't think that's the case at all. i see some who give it too much credence and some who give it no credence at all. as is often the case, the truch lies right in the middle.
Fixer repeatedly says that "RBI's don't mean anything" and Cliffy says similar things. That, my friends, is hogwash.
The RBI list & WAR list are pretty similar if you go into top 20 or so.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Any moron can write a story! I'd say i'd love for him to get hurt to let the blind people see his actual value,but i'm a Phillies fan and don't wish that upon my team.
It was this that got it going, Fixers relentless attack and my relentless disagreeing.
Fixer repeatedly says that "RBI's don't mean anything" and Cliffy says similar things. That, my friends, is hogwash.
The RBI list & WAR list are pretty similar if you go into top 20 or so.
It's not that they don't mean anything, it is that they are a terrible evaluator of a players talent as so much relies on the team around them. I won't even use Howard, Arod, would not have 100+ RBI's a season if he played for the Pirates but that wouldn't make him any less of a hitter. How can you possibly argue with that?
They are similar but the order is so much better on the WAR, I think at least. Mays shouldn't be 9th on any list talking about the best players of all time.
Fixer how has his defense been this year? To me he's never looked better,between scooping bad throws or making great plays. No errors at all this year is impressive especially for him.
1 - errors are not indicative of good/bad defense. he still has the range of a fire hydrant
2 - he hasn't thrown any grenades into LF yet, but he's busted out the triple pump, no throw, take it to the bag a few times. (that's one of his patented moves...along with the one armed helicopter flail)
Funny that no one mentions his AB in the 7th inning on friday night. 2nd and 3rd, no out. whiff. reminiscient of the last 3 playoff series he's played in ('09 WS and his stellar performance in 2 series last year).
best part of all this is that his contract hasn't even started yet
Or this many examples of just not liking a player imo. Credit is never given and that's my problem with it. He's been a rock at 1st base this year,making great diving plays showing great range and not making bone headed plays. Yet a double pump is remembered,u just can't win with certain people period.
and the thing that keeps this argument going is that certain people refuse to accept that things are not black and white, and cut and dry. the world just doesn't work that way.
Fixer repeatedly says that "RBI's don't mean anything" and Cliffy says similar things. That, my friends, is hogwash.
The RBI list & WAR list are pretty similar if you go into top 20 or so.
It's not that they don't mean anything, it is that they are a terrible evaluator of a players talent as so much relies on the team around them. I won't even use Howard, Arod, would not have 100+ RBI's a season if he played for the Pirates but that wouldn't make him any less of a hitter. How can you possibly argue with that?
They are similar but the order is so much better on the WAR, I think at least. Mays shouldn't be 9th on any list talking about the best players of all time.
Because certain players just produce look at Werth he just got a huge contract. Now can u tell me how many 100rbi's season he had??? ZERO and he batted in a lineup that was damn good. If Howards contract is the worst ever then where's Werth's rank? Werth's contract is far worse then Howards,at least Howards good for a monster year ever time.
Fixer how has his defense been this year? To me he's never looked better,between scooping bad throws or making great plays. No errors at all this year is impressive especially for him.
1 - errors are not indicative of good/bad defense. he still has the range of a fire hydrant
2 - he hasn't thrown any grenades into LF yet, but he's busted out the triple pump, no throw, take it to the bag a few times. (that's one of his patented moves...along with the one armed helicopter flail)
Funny that no one mentions his AB in the 7th inning on friday night. 2nd and 3rd, no out. whiff. reminiscient of the last 3 playoff series he's played in ('09 WS and his stellar performance in 2 series last year).
best part of all this is that his contract hasn't even started yet
Or this many examples of just not liking a player imo. Credit is never given and that's my problem with it. He's been a rock at 1st base this year,making great diving plays showing great range and not making bone headed plays. Yet a double pump is remembered,u just can't win with certain people period.
I haven't watched enough Phillies baseball to comment on his defense this year but errors are not the best evaluator of defense either. Jeter rarely commits errors.
Fixer repeatedly says that "RBI's don't mean anything" and Cliffy says similar things. That, my friends, is hogwash.
The RBI list & WAR list are pretty similar if you go into top 20 or so.
It's not that they don't mean anything, it is that they are a terrible evaluator of a players talent as so much relies on the team around them. I won't even use Howard, Arod, would not have 100+ RBI's a season if he played for the Pirates but that wouldn't make him any less of a hitter. How can you possibly argue with that?
They are similar but the order is so much better on the WAR, I think at least. Mays shouldn't be 9th on any list talking about the best players of all time.
Because certain players just produce look at Werth he just got a huge contract. Now can u tell me how many 100rbi's season he had??? ZERO and he batted in a lineup that was damn good. If Howards contract is the worst ever then where's Werth's rank? Werth's contract is far worse then Howards,at least Howards good for a monster year ever time.
I have always thought Werth was overrated and his contract is obscene.
who is saying whoever is the alltime leader in rbi's must be the greatest hitter ever? ....i don't believe anyone is. :? :roll:
Many people here think RBIs are the end all be all it seems.
i don't think that's the case at all. i see some who give it too much credence and some who give it no credence at all. as is often the case, the truch lies right in the middle.
this is the exact point isn't it? when a clown says that the Phillies are better off with Ross Gload at 1st base over Ryan Howard and repeatedly bashes him of course we have to defend him. I don't need stats to tell me that Ryan Howard has been one hell of a player for this franchise. to argue otherwise and to bring up every time he strikes out is just overkill and wip-ish and annoying as hell. to base evaluations on a stat like WAR is stupid. not everything is equal. having a great game in a meaningless august game for a lousy team sure as hell isn't as important as one big hit in a big game for a team fighing for a playoff spot. i'll take ryan howards contribrution to arguably the greatest team run in Philly sports history and fucking love it regardless of what his freakin WAR is.
Then ask Jeags,pjhawks,jp,dropthe leash,johnny anyone about his def this year. I guarantee NO one will have a bad thing to say about it this year.
Thats fine, I am not even arguing about Howard here, I am arguing about RBIs. I used Arod and not Howard to avoid getting into Howard talk.
look no one is saying RBIs is the most important stat, but to insinuate that anyone can knock on all those runs in the same sitautions as ARod and Howard does it absurd. all you need to do is look at the Phillies this year and how before a week ago our 3rd hitter (then jimmy rollins, since changed) had a whopping 5 RBIs with one of the leading on-base percentage players in front of him. if it was so damn easy to do then anyone could hit 3rd or 4th.
Then ask Jeags,pjhawks,jp,dropthe leash,johnny anyone about his def this year. I guarantee NO one will have a bad thing to say about it this year.
Thats fine, I am not even arguing about Howard here, I am arguing about RBIs. I used Arod and not Howard to avoid getting into Howard talk.
look no one is saying RBIs is the most important stat, but to insinuate that anyone can knock on all those runs in the same sitautions as ARod and Howard does it absurd. all you need to do is look at the Phillies this year and how before a week ago our 3rd hitter (then jimmy rollins, since changed) had a whopping 5 RBIs with one of the leading on-base percentage players in front of him. if it was so damn easy to do then anyone could hit 3rd or 4th.
Of course not everyone is made to be a cleanup hitter and drive people in but there are plenty of players in the league that would put up similar RBI numbers if they had the Yanks or Phillies lineup. Plenty.
Of course not everyone is made to be a cleanup hitter and drive people in but there are plenty of players in the league that would put up similar RBI numbers if they had the Yanks or Phillies lineup. Plenty.
what is your definition of plenty? Neither the Phillies nor the Yankees have another. Maybe less than 30 guys in the league i'd say. to me that makes them pretty damn special players. id love to hear your list of players who you think would lead in the league in RBIs as of now with how this Phillies lineup is currently constructed. have you read the pages where eveyone one here bashes our offense and says it sucks?
Comments
I agee, but I also don't think he is the best hitter of all time based on RBI numbers. One of, but not best.
When I get a few minutes I may try it but I think if you look at the top 10 players in terms of all time WAR and comparing that to the top 10 based on RBIs, the WAR will give you a much better list.
who is saying whoever is the alltime leader in rbi's must be the greatest hitter ever? ....i don't believe anyone is. :? :roll:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6987 ... n-baseball
2011 Philadelphia Phillies: A Bad Team with the Best Record in MLB
In politics, they say that “perception is reality.” Fortunately, they do not say this in professional sports, because if they did, the Philadelphia Phillies would be in real trouble. Take, for example, a conversation I had with a Philadelphia friend named Josh and a non-Philadelphia friend named Scott while I was in New Orleans for the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival last weekend.
Scott and I love obscure baseball t-shirts, so while in town I presented him with a “Philadelphia Phillies Opening Week” t-shirt which had been a give-away at Citizens Bank Park during the first homestand of the season. Scott, a lifelong Cubs fan, put on the shirt and said “it feels strange to wear the t-shirt of a winner.”
Then we had the following amusing exchange:
Me: “Wanna see something funny?”
Scott: “Sure.”
Me: “Hey Josh, how do the Phillies look this year?”
Josh: “Oh, we’re so screwed.”
Scott: “Wow.”
Now, from where I sit, Josh’s take on the Phillies is pretty consistent with what Philly fans and sports radio talkers seem to think about the 2011 incarnation of the Fightin’ Phils: that despite the amazing rotation, the bullpen is bad and the offense is anemic, and even if Chase Utley comes back, we’ve got problems.
But is this fair? Are losing perspective? Are our expectations a bit high?
Forget fair; is it even true?
Never mind the fact that the Phils have the best starting rotation in baseball, and Vance Worley appears ready to be a great major league pitcher. Never mind the fact that, with the exception of Raul Ibanez, most of the Phillies’ hitters are having better seasons than they did a year ago. Never mind the fact that the Phillies sell out every game while the other four teams in our division struggle to turn the stiles.
Perhaps the best indicator of just how skewed our perspective is lies in this tasty little statistic:
The Philadelphia Phillies currently have the best record in baseball.
Perspective can be a funny thing in sports. Right now in Kansas City they’re dancing in the streets because the Royals are two games over .500 and in third place in the division. In Pittsburgh optimism is through the roof because the Pirates are one game under .500 and in third place in the division. Meanwhile, Orioles fans are ecstatic just to be ahead of anybody, let alone the Boston Red Sox, in the second week of May.
But back here in Philadelphia, the local faithful are phreaking out because the Phillies have merely won two out of every three games.
Do not misunderstand me: I get it. I understand the consternation. This is a once in a lifetime team, and we have gone figurative (and maybe literally) “all in” on this 2011 squad which seems to be showing signing of stress. With injuries to Chase Utley, Brad Lidge and Roy Oswalt, our offense seems over-matched, our bullpen is a real balancing act and our rotation is showing cracks where we did not expect them.
At the same time, though, one has to wonder whether Philadelphia fans shall ever be happy. This is the city, after all, that absolutely loathes Andy Reid, a man who has almost literally had nothing but success in Philadelphia.
One of the city’s loudest voices, Angelo Cataldi, declares that it is time to run Andre Igoudala out of town after the Philadelphia 76ers, a team that defied odds and over-achieved by even making the playoffs, had the audacity to lose to the Miami freakin’ Heat in the first round of the playoffs.
And now the Phillies merely having the best record in baseball is leaving Phillies’ fans disappointed and listless.
Of course, the reason that “perception is reality” in politics but not in sports is that in politics the voters actually get to vote based on how they perceive the country to be doing or their elected officials to be performing.
In sports, though, the fans do not get to vote, which is a good thing, because if Phillies’ fans were allowed to vote based on their perception of reality, the Phillies might be out of office in a hurry.
Which would be quite the outcome for the best team in baseball.
bleacherreport is usually pretty spotty (well mostly because it's the angelo's of the world writing on it) but this one is spot on. the negativity out there (and in here) for a team with the best record in baseball is crazy. all everyone talked about last year was 'if we only had lee and halladay together' - well we do. as i said to the Fixer the other day, your choice was lee and halladay or werth and halladay. the right choice was made. lets win the next series.
"spotty" is being overly generous. i'd say it is usually garbage. i hate how that stuff takes up most of philly.com's sports area......but yeah, i agree with you for the most part here.
reinforcements not here yet, and we're 24-12.
big early season series starting tonight. can't wait.
This is a nice list:
1. Hank Aaron+ 2297 R
2. Babe Ruth+ 2213 L
3. Cap Anson+ 2075 R
4. Barry Bonds 1996 L
5. Lou Gehrig+ 1995 L
6. Stan Musial+ 1951 L
7. Ty Cobb+ 1938 L
8. Jimmie Foxx+ 1922 R
9. Eddie Murray+ 1917 B
10. Willie Mays+ 1903 R
Which WAR are you gonna use? Moe's, Larry's or Curly's?
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Many people here think RBIs are the end all be all it seems.
It is a nice list but I dont think anyone would say that is a top 10 list of the 10 best hitters ever. Willie Mays is 9th.
I would use FanGraphs, that is all I really use.
Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Ty Cobb
Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Tris Speaker
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Honus Wagner
Eddie Collins
i don't think that's the case at all. i see some who give it too much credence and some who give it no credence at all. as is often the case, the truch lies right in the middle.
I am pretty sure you're the one that brought up RBIs on the last page.
The RBI list & WAR list are pretty similar if you go into top 20 or so.
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
It's not that they don't mean anything, it is that they are a terrible evaluator of a players talent as so much relies on the team around them. I won't even use Howard, Arod, would not have 100+ RBI's a season if he played for the Pirates but that wouldn't make him any less of a hitter. How can you possibly argue with that?
They are similar but the order is so much better on the WAR, I think at least. Mays shouldn't be 9th on any list talking about the best players of all time.
haha....right on man.
and the thing that keeps this argument going is that certain people refuse to accept that things are not black and white, and cut and dry. the world just doesn't work that way.
Because certain players just produce look at Werth he just got a huge contract. Now can u tell me how many 100rbi's season he had??? ZERO and he batted in a lineup that was damn good. If Howards contract is the worst ever then where's Werth's rank? Werth's contract is far worse then Howards,at least Howards good for a monster year ever time.
I haven't watched enough Phillies baseball to comment on his defense this year but errors are not the best evaluator of defense either. Jeter rarely commits errors.
I have always thought Werth was overrated and his contract is obscene.
this is the exact point isn't it? when a clown says that the Phillies are better off with Ross Gload at 1st base over Ryan Howard and repeatedly bashes him of course we have to defend him. I don't need stats to tell me that Ryan Howard has been one hell of a player for this franchise. to argue otherwise and to bring up every time he strikes out is just overkill and wip-ish and annoying as hell. to base evaluations on a stat like WAR is stupid. not everything is equal. having a great game in a meaningless august game for a lousy team sure as hell isn't as important as one big hit in a big game for a team fighing for a playoff spot. i'll take ryan howards contribrution to arguably the greatest team run in Philly sports history and fucking love it regardless of what his freakin WAR is.
Thats fine, I am not even arguing about Howard here, I am arguing about RBIs. I used Arod and not Howard to avoid getting into Howard talk.
look no one is saying RBIs is the most important stat, but to insinuate that anyone can knock on all those runs in the same sitautions as ARod and Howard does it absurd. all you need to do is look at the Phillies this year and how before a week ago our 3rd hitter (then jimmy rollins, since changed) had a whopping 5 RBIs with one of the leading on-base percentage players in front of him. if it was so damn easy to do then anyone could hit 3rd or 4th.
My entire argument today is about RBI's in general.
Of course not everyone is made to be a cleanup hitter and drive people in but there are plenty of players in the league that would put up similar RBI numbers if they had the Yanks or Phillies lineup. Plenty.
what is your definition of plenty? Neither the Phillies nor the Yankees have another. Maybe less than 30 guys in the league i'd say. to me that makes them pretty damn special players. id love to hear your list of players who you think would lead in the league in RBIs as of now with how this Phillies lineup is currently constructed. have you read the pages where eveyone one here bashes our offense and says it sucks?