So this is where all the Yanks talk has gone. Shoulda known there was already a thread for 08.
I don't get the owner of the Twins. He is one of the richest guys (worth a couple BILLION) anywhere, yet he won't pay to keep Johan.
I think the Boston rumors are just to drive the price up in hopes that Cashman budges on one of the "untouchables".
I hope they don't trade Hughes. They spend the last 3 years refusing to trade him. And now it's like he's a throwaway. I was getting excited about next year with Hughes,Chamberlain, and Kennedy in the rotation. I hope the Twins wait til mid-season to see if they're still in the race to keep him or not.
well... i wouldn't exactly use the term "throwaway" when the return on him is the best pitcher in baseball. but i certainly agree that it's a dumb move.
there were many reasons why the yankees lost to cleveland. for me, "lack of johan santana" was no higher than number five on the list.
right now, the guy who should be their top priority is in houston trying to hide from george mitchell's "independent" investigation. :rolleyes: and that's a damn shame...
andy pettitte defines the concept of a big game pitcher, which is something that all the sabermetric statistics in the world can't account for.
So this is where all the Yanks talk has gone. Shoulda known there was already a thread for 08.
I don't get the owner of the Twins. He is one of the richest guys (worth a couple BILLION) anywhere, yet he won't pay to keep Johan.
I think the Boston rumors are just to drive the price up in hopes that Cashman budges on one of the "untouchables".
he's worth more money than steinbrenner, and yet steinbrenner has to write him a check every year to "balance things out." what's wrong with this picture?
maybe he should spend a little bit of that money on a financial advisor who can explain to him that the resulting loss in revenue from trading santana will in fact exceed santana's projected salary over the next five to seven years.
and perhaps an even bigger issue here is that phil hughes will be right back on the market in three or four years when the twins decide that he's too expensive to keep. at that point, they'll once again be able to hold the yankees hostage while threatening to send hughes to boston. is this what we really want???
i hope the latest boston rumor is true (crisp, lester, lowrie and a prospect) because i, as a red sox fan, would do that in a heart beat.
that being said, i don't know what to think about the yankees right now. i'm not sure who is in charge (i'll say hank has the upper hand over cashman). the yanks say one thing (if a-rod ops out, we will not sign him) and then do another (re-sign a-rod).
if the yanks were to get santana (we'll say hughes, melky and 2 prospects - one mid-level and one low-level - gets it done) and then they sign santana to a contract for an average of $22-25mil/year, that would be an average of $50mil+ to TWO players.
the one thing that irks me is what posada said today about needing an ace. yeah, we all know that wang really isn't a true ace, but he's 'technically' the ace of the staff as of right now. posada could have had a nice buffer statement praising chien-ming wang (i mean, he does have the most wins in the majors the last couple years) and then said something to the effect of "when you have a chance to get a player of johan santana's caliber..."
between that and hank's comment a couple weeks ago after signing posada and rivera (saying now we have everyone back without a single mention of pettitte) doesn't really give me a "team" vibe. just my opinion.
he's worth more money than steinbrenner, and yet steinbrenner has to write him a check every year to "balance things out." what's wrong with this picture?
any team that gets money from luxury tax is in no way, shape or form poor. i mean, they OWN a baseball team. i know it is not a perfect system, but i'll take baseball under these rules rather than no baseball at all (aka - strike).
i would love to see a minimum salary introduced, even if it is something as "small" as $35-40mil.
the fact that the twins owner is worth $3 BILLION and doesn't ante up a little is a complete joke.
It's Baseball Welfare, and the math is simple. Teams collect $30 million from the TV deal, and $30 million in revenue sharing (Steinbrenner Socialism). Now with that $60 million in hand on Opening day, without selling one ticket, or one ad during your games, you can either:
Spend some money, and field a competitive team
Field a squad of AAA'ers, with a $10-15 mil payroll, and clear an instant $45 mil profit, and put George's handout into your pocket.
Obviously most teams that are on baseball welfare choose option # 2. As noted above, pohlad (Twins owner) is one of the richest men in the world. If I'm a Minnesota fan, I'm disgusted. You have the best pitcher in baseball, and one of the best closers. Both could very well be playing elsewhere next year. And don't get too attached to whomever comes over in any trades. They'll be on the block in a few years when they have to be paid more than the league minimum
i hope the latest boston rumor is true (crisp, lester, lowrie and a prospect) because i, as a red sox fan, would do that in a heart beat.
i have to tell you though, i just don't think it makes much sense from the twins point of view. i'm personally still of the opinion that a third team will end up making a huge offer, and that's fine by me.
if the yanks were to get santana (we'll say hughes, melky and 2 prospects - one mid-level and one low-level - gets it done) and then they sign santana to a contract for an average of $22-25mil/year, that would be an average of $50mil+ to TWO players.
right. now add in the $18 million per year that they'd be forced to pay aaron rowand to replace melky in CF. now it's getting ridiculous.
then look at how much they're neglecting andy pettitte and the whole thing looks like a mirror image of the 2003-04 offseason. where's paul quantrill?
between that and hank's comment a couple weeks ago after signing posada and rivera (saying now we have everyone back without a single mention of pettitte) doesn't really give me a "team" vibe. just my opinion.
i agree 100%. all the more reason to keep the homegrown pitchers. rooting for the uniform (rather than the players) gets old really quickly.
any team that gets money from luxury tax is in no way, shape or form poor. i mean, they OWN a baseball team. i know it is not a perfect system, but i'll take baseball under these rules rather than no baseball at all (aka - strike).
i would love to see a minimum salary introduced, even if it is something as "small" as $35-40mil.
the fact that the twins owner is worth $3 BILLION and doesn't ante up a little is a complete joke.
a minimum salary cap would be a great idea.
another possibility would be to require the owners to invest their luxury tax/revenue sharing money into their team. why should they get to pocket that money?
i have to tell you though, i just don't think it makes much sense from the twins point of view. i'm personally still of the opinion that a third team will end up making a huge offer, and that's fine by me.
As a Red Sox fan I kind of agree with you that the Sox aren't offering that much - in terms of players from their major league roster - for Santana.
Here's why I think is why the Twins are receptive of their offer (but I think another team can definitely top it):
Coco Crisp - he only has 2 years on his contract and is shade below Hunter defensively, but has a bad arm. Comparable hitter to Melky and the Twins have always liked him. Plus he'd just be keeping the spot warm for Ben Revere who is the Twins top Prospect and should be major league ready in 2 seasons
Jed Lowrie - can play either 2nd or SS - is major league ready and the Twins need a ss now that they traded their ss Bartlett in the Young deal - currently the Sox 2nd best hitting prospect
Jon Lester - Sox second best pitching prospect - obviously has a tough makeup after battling cancer - could be a good 2 or 3 starter - 11-2 in the majors after 26 starts
Either Justin Masterson or Michel Bowden - don't know too much about them except they were both in AA and are the Sox 3rd and 4th best pitching prospects respectively
As a Red Sox fan I kind of agree with you that the Sox aren't offering that much - in terms of players from their major league roster - for Santana.
Here's why I think is why the Twins are receptive of their offer (but I think another team can definitely top it):
Coco Crisp - he only has 2 years on his contract and is shade below Hunter defensively, but has a bad arm. Comparable hitter to Melky and the Twins have always liked him. Plus he'd just be keeping the spot warm for Ben Revere who is the Twins top Prospect and should be major league ready in 2 seasons
Jed Lowrie - can play either 2nd or SS - is major league ready and the Twins need a ss now that they traded their ss Bartlett in the Young deal - currently the Sox 2nd best hitting prospect
Jon Lester - Sox second best pitching prospect - obviously has a tough makeup after battling cancer - could be a good 2 or 3 starter - 11-2 in the majors after 26 starts
Either Justin Masterson or Michel Bowden - don't know too much about them except they were both in AA and are the Sox 3rd and 4th best pitching prospects respectively
it's not that it's a bad package. but usually, a trade like this has to include that one prospect who has the potential to eventually be as valuable as the guy he's replacing. in this case, it would have to be either ellsbury or buchholz. jon lester is gonna be a very good pitcher, but he's never gonna make twins fans forget about santana. this is exactly the reason why i don't think the yankees can get it done without giving up hughes.
and while i understand the crisp argument, i really can't imagine that a stopgap CF is gonna make or break a deal for the best pitcher in baseball. they could find their CF elsewhere if they needed to.
i don't really know enough about lowrie to comment. i know that a lot of people seem to think highly of masterson and bowden. their value is probably similar to that of alan horne (who many scouts believe will be better than ian kennedy, and will likely be the second pitcher sent to minnesota if the yankees acquire santana).
but the bottom line is this: if the red sox aren't willing to part with clay buchholz, the yankees shouldn't be willing to part with phil hughes.
and one thing that bothers me is the popular notion among the media (and among yankee fans) that it is the yankees' responsibility to prevent the red sox from getting better. it isn't. the yankees can only worry about the yankees.
the last time the yankees panicked like this, they ended up with kevin brown, gary sheffield, alex rodriguez, kenny lofton, and an absolute trainwreck of a team. let's be honest here: that team was a disaster even with a 3-0 lead in the ALCS. there's no reason why it should have even gotten to that point in the first place.
the indians, angels, mariners, and tigers have just as much to worry about as the yankees do in regards to the red sox. those are the teams that will be facing boston in the first round every october. maybe one of those teams could jump in here with a competitive offer. that might be fun.
i think the fact that santana wants a 5-6 year extension at upwards of $150mil is going to limit the number of elite or top prospects the twins get. i liken it to the matsuzaka situation last year with the sox. the fact that they paid the $51.1mil posting fee, while not part of the actual contract, had an effect on the dollars the sox were willing to offer for the contract.
i think that the red sox, the yankees, the mets and any other team that can afford to give santana the huge contract extension completely understand that if they're going to give this much money to him, why should they also have to give up 2 elite/top prospects?
for lack of a better term, the sox and yanks are playing hardball by saying "no ellsbury" and "no joba" and at the end of this neither might be moved, but whichever team ends up trading for santana will give up something that they originally didn't want to give up.
and one thing that bothers me is the popular notion among the media (and among yankee fans) that it is the yankees' responsibility to prevent the red sox from getting better. it isn't. the yankees can only worry about the yankees.
the last time the yankees panicked like this, they ended up with kevin brown, gary sheffield, alex rodriguez, kenny lofton, and an absolute trainwreck of a team. let's be honest here: that team was a disaster even with a 3-0 lead in the ALCS. there's no reason why it should have even gotten to that point in the first place.
the indians, angels, mariners, and tigers have just as much to worry about as the yankees do in regards to the red sox. those are the teams that will be facing boston in the first round every october. maybe one of those teams could jump in here with a competitive offer. that might be fun.
the same thing happens in boston where the talk shows and media try to play on the yankees as evil and how players can't go there instead of to the red sox as if it will be the end of the world. obviously i would much rather have santana end up on the sox than the yanks, but i don't have a pathetic 'fear the yankees' complex so if santana ends up on the yanks, so be it and they can deal with a payroll that will pay $50mil to two players and then the money to the CF they have to bring in to replace cabrera (most likely) because damon was a bad signing.
i don't see the indians, angels, mariners or tigers getting involved for santana. the indians can't afford him. if the angels had a tv deal they could, but right now their biggest concern is more offense. the mariners, not sure if they could afford him - they could if they didn't stupidly sign beltre and sexson. i could see the tigers getting involved, but not sure if i see the twins trading to a team in their division they'll have to play 18-19 times a year.
Why is Ellsbury so hyped? The dude put up a sub .800 OPS all season in AAA, come up to the bigs and has a little success, and how people are saying he's untouchable.
The Yankees shouldn't have to throw in Hughes to beat a Boston offer with Ellsbury, more like Boston would need to throw in Buchholz
Sounds like the Yanks are now willing to include Hughes in a package with Melky and another prospect. That's the rumor and with the speculation that Pettitte may hang it up it may be true. I know Santanna is regarded as the best pitcher in baseball (though last year's stats don't exactly support it), but there are so many things that scare me about this.
First of all I don't think you give ANY pitcher the kind of contract Santanna wants. It's much more risky with a pitcher. I really hate the idea of trading Hughes. Everyone is hot over Joba and rightfully so, but I not convinced that he is going to be any better than Hughes. I wouldn't let either of them out of my hands. I think both are going to be #1 caliber pitchers.
But, I guess it's all about now when you are a team that has to win every year. I'll be surprised if Johan isn't a Yank when Opening Day 08 rolls around.
This is what I hate about baseball in its current form. I wish the Twins would just keep johan, sign him long term, and the yankees can keep all 3 of their pitching prospects. You have the runaway best pitcher in baseball. KEEP HIM!I felt the same way years ago when Giambi was a free agent. I wanted him to stay with Oakland for the good of baseball. I hate that 25 teams serve as a farm system to the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, and a few other teams.
Two boys are playing hockey on a pond in suburban Chicago when one is attacked by a rabid rottweiler. Thinking quickly, the other boy takes his stick and wedges it down the dog's collar and twists, breaking the dog's neck. A reporter who is strolling by sees the incident and rushes over to the boy. "Young White Sox Fan Saves Friend from Vicious Animal," he starts writing in his notebook.
"But I'm not a Sox fan," the little hero replied.
"Sorry, since we are in Chicago, I just assumed you were," said the reporter, and he began writing again.
"Cubs Fan Rescues Friends from Horrific Attack," he continued writing in his notebook.
"I'm not a Cubs fan either," the boy said.
"I assumed everyone in Chicago was either for the Cubs or the Sox. What team do you root for?" inquired the reporter. "I'm a Yankees fan," the child responded.
The reporter turned the page in his notebook and wrote "Little Brat from New York Kills Beloved Family Pet."
'Give me some music; music, moody food/ of us that trade in love'
-Shakespeare
Two boys are playing hockey on a pond in suburban Chicago when one is attacked by a rabid rottweiler. Thinking quickly, the other boy takes his stick and wedges it down the dog's collar and twists, breaking the dog's neck. A reporter who is strolling by sees the incident and rushes over to the boy. "Young White Sox Fan Saves Friend from Vicious Animal," he starts writing in his notebook.
"But I'm not a Sox fan," the little hero replied.
"Sorry, since we are in Chicago, I just assumed you were," said the reporter, and he began writing again.
"Cubs Fan Rescues Friends from Horrific Attack," he continued writing in his notebook.
"I'm not a Cubs fan either," the boy said.
"I assumed everyone in Chicago was either for the Cubs or the Sox. What team do you root for?" inquired the reporter. "I'm a Yankees fan," the child responded.
The reporter turned the page in his notebook and wrote "Little Brat from New York Kills Beloved Family Pet."
This is what I hate about baseball in its current form. I wish the Twins would just keep johan, sign him long term, and the yankees can keep all 3 of their pitching prospects. You have the runaway best pitcher in baseball. KEEP HIM!I felt the same way years ago when Giambi was a free agent. I wanted him to stay with Oakland for the good of baseball. I hate that 25 teams serve as a farm system to the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, and a few other teams.
I agree. Rumors are circulating that the Twins may be willing to hang on to Johan and ride it out. If they lose him to free agency they would get the draft picks. I don't buy this. They don't seem to have any interest in spending the money on him and they will get more for him in a trade now.
Someone tell me about this Horne kid. I haven't heard of him before all the trade talks started circulating.
And I agree with Abraham when he says that the bullpen is probably a bigger problem at this point than anything.
Hopefully most of the lingering questions can work themselves out over the GM Meetings. The Pettitte thing will most likely be drawn out. I love Andy and everything he has meant to this ball club over his career, but if you are going to retire do it. Maybe he learned more than just pitching from Roger.
Yankees vice president Hank Steinbrenner confirmed that he plans to pull his team's offer for Johan Santana on Monday.
Just when it looked like the Yankees might have gotten him muzzled. "I think our offer is the best offer," Steinbrenner said. "We have the best young pitchers in the game, even better than Boston." The Yankees are believed to be offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and a prospect for Santana. Steinbrenner indicated that the third player isn't what's holding up the deal. "That's erroneous," he said. "I don't think that will be the sticking point."
no offense yanks fans, but who is to say that hank won't put the offer (or a slighly revised version) back on the table on tuesday? i mean, they yanks really haven't stood by their word this offseason ::cough:: we won't sign arod if he opts out ::cough::
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also, apparently santana has told the twins that he will not waive his no-trade clause once the 2008 season starts.
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Things happen in the game. Nothing you
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"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
Just heard something intereting on the radio. The twins are not happy about Hank blabbing about how much he likes Johan. Makes sense. You could almost make a case for tampering. That Hank is waxing poetic about Johan, basically sending word that they love him, and will throw big money at him if he makes it to free agency. Now, i don't think that's what he's doing (I think he really just doesn't have a filter between his brain and his mouth. I'd love to play poker with him) but I can see the Twins point, if it's true
Great news about Pettitte earlier today. Glad he didn't string this thing along any more.
O's are shopping Bedard and are looking for 4 prospects. Another lefty with Cy Young stuff. I actually like him better than Haren and just a couple notches or so below Johan. I would worry a little more about him as an injury risk.
Hank is starting to remind me of old school George. Kinda wish he would turn it down a notch and just let things play out. Cashman on the other hand has gone dark. At least we know he is in Nashville.
Hope this doesn't put his future as a Yankee in jeopardy. I thought this team was much better last year when he was called up and playing 1B almost every day.
I believe that means any team can now claim him, and give up nothing, at least player wise. I think it costs a few bucks ($50,000 or so) to claim a player. Also, a team claiming him would have to keep him on their major league roster all year, or offer him back. The thing that pisses me off about this, isn't Pavano still on the 40-man? Cut that piece of crap. they're not gonna get anything out of him next year, the last year of his deal. By letting him waste a spot, they could lose a very valuable bench player/defensive player
ETA: Why did they have to make a spot for him anyway? he was on the team last year. Did they give his spot to eomeone else at the end of the year?
Great news about Pettitte earlier today. Glad he didn't string this thing along any more.
O's are shopping Bedard and are looking for 4 prospects. Another lefty with Cy Young stuff. I actually like him better than Haren and just a couple notches or so below Johan. I would worry a little more about him as an injury risk.
Hank is starting to remind me of old school George. Kinda wish he would turn it down a notch and just let things play out. Cashman on the other hand has gone dark. At least we know he is in Nashville.
hank turn it down a notch? HA! he thinks he's his dad even though the team was handed to him. i love hank though. he's such a dumbass. and someone needs to put a mirror under cashman's nose and/or mouth to see if he's still alive.
i'm actually surprised that pettitte announced he was coming back this early. i'm glad he did announce it though (even as a sox fan) just because it shows he really wants to play for the yanks (or at the very least get the $16mil contract signed).
i'd go santana, haren then bedard just due to bedard's history with injury. obviously if he had a couple full great healthy season under his belt i would flip haren and bedard. i can't see the orioles trading bedard to the yanks or sox. that would just be shooting themselves in the foot. it will be a cold day in hell (ie - decades) before the o's are al east contenders. i'm more worried about the rays and jays than i am the o's.
Comments
I don't get the owner of the Twins. He is one of the richest guys (worth a couple BILLION) anywhere, yet he won't pay to keep Johan.
I think the Boston rumors are just to drive the price up in hopes that Cashman budges on one of the "untouchables".
well... i wouldn't exactly use the term "throwaway" when the return on him is the best pitcher in baseball. but i certainly agree that it's a dumb move.
there were many reasons why the yankees lost to cleveland. for me, "lack of johan santana" was no higher than number five on the list.
right now, the guy who should be their top priority is in houston trying to hide from george mitchell's "independent" investigation. :rolleyes: and that's a damn shame...
andy pettitte defines the concept of a big game pitcher, which is something that all the sabermetric statistics in the world can't account for.
he's worth more money than steinbrenner, and yet steinbrenner has to write him a check every year to "balance things out." what's wrong with this picture?
maybe he should spend a little bit of that money on a financial advisor who can explain to him that the resulting loss in revenue from trading santana will in fact exceed santana's projected salary over the next five to seven years.
and perhaps an even bigger issue here is that phil hughes will be right back on the market in three or four years when the twins decide that he's too expensive to keep. at that point, they'll once again be able to hold the yankees hostage while threatening to send hughes to boston. is this what we really want???
that being said, i don't know what to think about the yankees right now. i'm not sure who is in charge (i'll say hank has the upper hand over cashman). the yanks say one thing (if a-rod ops out, we will not sign him) and then do another (re-sign a-rod).
if the yanks were to get santana (we'll say hughes, melky and 2 prospects - one mid-level and one low-level - gets it done) and then they sign santana to a contract for an average of $22-25mil/year, that would be an average of $50mil+ to TWO players.
the one thing that irks me is what posada said today about needing an ace. yeah, we all know that wang really isn't a true ace, but he's 'technically' the ace of the staff as of right now. posada could have had a nice buffer statement praising chien-ming wang (i mean, he does have the most wins in the majors the last couple years) and then said something to the effect of "when you have a chance to get a player of johan santana's caliber..."
between that and hank's comment a couple weeks ago after signing posada and rivera (saying now we have everyone back without a single mention of pettitte) doesn't really give me a "team" vibe. just my opinion.
any team that gets money from luxury tax is in no way, shape or form poor. i mean, they OWN a baseball team. i know it is not a perfect system, but i'll take baseball under these rules rather than no baseball at all (aka - strike).
i would love to see a minimum salary introduced, even if it is something as "small" as $35-40mil.
the fact that the twins owner is worth $3 BILLION and doesn't ante up a little is a complete joke.
Spend some money, and field a competitive team
Field a squad of AAA'ers, with a $10-15 mil payroll, and clear an instant $45 mil profit, and put George's handout into your pocket.
Obviously most teams that are on baseball welfare choose option # 2. As noted above, pohlad (Twins owner) is one of the richest men in the world. If I'm a Minnesota fan, I'm disgusted. You have the best pitcher in baseball, and one of the best closers. Both could very well be playing elsewhere next year. And don't get too attached to whomever comes over in any trades. They'll be on the block in a few years when they have to be paid more than the league minimum
i have to tell you though, i just don't think it makes much sense from the twins point of view. i'm personally still of the opinion that a third team will end up making a huge offer, and that's fine by me.
right. now add in the $18 million per year that they'd be forced to pay aaron rowand to replace melky in CF. now it's getting ridiculous.
then look at how much they're neglecting andy pettitte and the whole thing looks like a mirror image of the 2003-04 offseason. where's paul quantrill?
i agree 100%. all the more reason to keep the homegrown pitchers. rooting for the uniform (rather than the players) gets old really quickly.
a minimum salary cap would be a great idea.
another possibility would be to require the owners to invest their luxury tax/revenue sharing money into their team. why should they get to pocket that money?
it's supposed to be for the fans, not the owners.
As a Red Sox fan I kind of agree with you that the Sox aren't offering that much - in terms of players from their major league roster - for Santana.
Here's why I think is why the Twins are receptive of their offer (but I think another team can definitely top it):
Coco Crisp - he only has 2 years on his contract and is shade below Hunter defensively, but has a bad arm. Comparable hitter to Melky and the Twins have always liked him. Plus he'd just be keeping the spot warm for Ben Revere who is the Twins top Prospect and should be major league ready in 2 seasons
Jed Lowrie - can play either 2nd or SS - is major league ready and the Twins need a ss now that they traded their ss Bartlett in the Young deal - currently the Sox 2nd best hitting prospect
Jon Lester - Sox second best pitching prospect - obviously has a tough makeup after battling cancer - could be a good 2 or 3 starter - 11-2 in the majors after 26 starts
Either Justin Masterson or Michel Bowden - don't know too much about them except they were both in AA and are the Sox 3rd and 4th best pitching prospects respectively
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it's not that it's a bad package. but usually, a trade like this has to include that one prospect who has the potential to eventually be as valuable as the guy he's replacing. in this case, it would have to be either ellsbury or buchholz. jon lester is gonna be a very good pitcher, but he's never gonna make twins fans forget about santana. this is exactly the reason why i don't think the yankees can get it done without giving up hughes.
and while i understand the crisp argument, i really can't imagine that a stopgap CF is gonna make or break a deal for the best pitcher in baseball. they could find their CF elsewhere if they needed to.
i don't really know enough about lowrie to comment. i know that a lot of people seem to think highly of masterson and bowden. their value is probably similar to that of alan horne (who many scouts believe will be better than ian kennedy, and will likely be the second pitcher sent to minnesota if the yankees acquire santana).
but the bottom line is this: if the red sox aren't willing to part with clay buchholz, the yankees shouldn't be willing to part with phil hughes.
and one thing that bothers me is the popular notion among the media (and among yankee fans) that it is the yankees' responsibility to prevent the red sox from getting better. it isn't. the yankees can only worry about the yankees.
the last time the yankees panicked like this, they ended up with kevin brown, gary sheffield, alex rodriguez, kenny lofton, and an absolute trainwreck of a team. let's be honest here: that team was a disaster even with a 3-0 lead in the ALCS. there's no reason why it should have even gotten to that point in the first place.
the indians, angels, mariners, and tigers have just as much to worry about as the yankees do in regards to the red sox. those are the teams that will be facing boston in the first round every october. maybe one of those teams could jump in here with a competitive offer. that might be fun.
i think that the red sox, the yankees, the mets and any other team that can afford to give santana the huge contract extension completely understand that if they're going to give this much money to him, why should they also have to give up 2 elite/top prospects?
for lack of a better term, the sox and yanks are playing hardball by saying "no ellsbury" and "no joba" and at the end of this neither might be moved, but whichever team ends up trading for santana will give up something that they originally didn't want to give up.
the same thing happens in boston where the talk shows and media try to play on the yankees as evil and how players can't go there instead of to the red sox as if it will be the end of the world. obviously i would much rather have santana end up on the sox than the yanks, but i don't have a pathetic 'fear the yankees' complex so if santana ends up on the yanks, so be it and they can deal with a payroll that will pay $50mil to two players and then the money to the CF they have to bring in to replace cabrera (most likely) because damon was a bad signing.
i don't see the indians, angels, mariners or tigers getting involved for santana. the indians can't afford him. if the angels had a tv deal they could, but right now their biggest concern is more offense. the mariners, not sure if they could afford him - they could if they didn't stupidly sign beltre and sexson. i could see the tigers getting involved, but not sure if i see the twins trading to a team in their division they'll have to play 18-19 times a year.
The Yankees shouldn't have to throw in Hughes to beat a Boston offer with Ellsbury, more like Boston would need to throw in Buchholz
I dont want to see him go, but It's an irrational thought I know.
First of all I don't think you give ANY pitcher the kind of contract Santanna wants. It's much more risky with a pitcher. I really hate the idea of trading Hughes. Everyone is hot over Joba and rightfully so, but I not convinced that he is going to be any better than Hughes. I wouldn't let either of them out of my hands. I think both are going to be #1 caliber pitchers.
But, I guess it's all about now when you are a team that has to win every year. I'll be surprised if Johan isn't a Yank when Opening Day 08 rolls around.
Two boys are playing hockey on a pond in suburban Chicago when one is attacked by a rabid rottweiler. Thinking quickly, the other boy takes his stick and wedges it down the dog's collar and twists, breaking the dog's neck. A reporter who is strolling by sees the incident and rushes over to the boy. "Young White Sox Fan Saves Friend from Vicious Animal," he starts writing in his notebook.
"But I'm not a Sox fan," the little hero replied.
"Sorry, since we are in Chicago, I just assumed you were," said the reporter, and he began writing again.
"Cubs Fan Rescues Friends from Horrific Attack," he continued writing in his notebook.
"I'm not a Cubs fan either," the boy said.
"I assumed everyone in Chicago was either for the Cubs or the Sox. What team do you root for?" inquired the reporter. "I'm a Yankees fan," the child responded.
The reporter turned the page in his notebook and wrote "Little Brat from New York Kills Beloved Family Pet."
-Shakespeare
That's cute.....
I agree. Rumors are circulating that the Twins may be willing to hang on to Johan and ride it out. If they lose him to free agency they would get the draft picks. I don't buy this. They don't seem to have any interest in spending the money on him and they will get more for him in a trade now.
Someone tell me about this Horne kid. I haven't heard of him before all the trade talks started circulating.
And I agree with Abraham when he says that the bullpen is probably a bigger problem at this point than anything.
Hopefully most of the lingering questions can work themselves out over the GM Meetings. The Pettitte thing will most likely be drawn out. I love Andy and everything he has meant to this ball club over his career, but if you are going to retire do it. Maybe he learned more than just pitching from Roger.
Yankees vice president Hank Steinbrenner confirmed that he plans to pull his team's offer for Johan Santana on Monday.
Just when it looked like the Yankees might have gotten him muzzled. "I think our offer is the best offer," Steinbrenner said. "We have the best young pitchers in the game, even better than Boston." The Yankees are believed to be offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and a prospect for Santana. Steinbrenner indicated that the third player isn't what's holding up the deal. "That's erroneous," he said. "I don't think that will be the sticking point."
no offense yanks fans, but who is to say that hank won't put the offer (or a slighly revised version) back on the table on tuesday? i mean, they yanks really haven't stood by their word this offseason ::cough:: we won't sign arod if he opts out ::cough::
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
also, apparently santana has told the twins that he will not waive his no-trade clause once the 2008 season starts.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5347088.html
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
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Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
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Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
NY Yankees 2008 include....
Johan Santanna, Aaron Rowand. (Gone are Melky and Phil Hughes)
or
Phil Hughes, Melky. (Johan possible in Boston or Minny)
Ideally, I want this move--Ian Kennedy & Melky and 2 top prospects for Johan and then sign Rowand. But I know its never going to happen.
EV - 5
(**Letterman'02, Irving Plaza, Storytellers, Beacon, ACL, Spectrum 3&4, Bridge School '10**)
"Constant recoil,..sometimes life don't leave you alone."
Let's connect on twitter - @Jeffgorra
Just heard something intereting on the radio. The twins are not happy about Hank blabbing about how much he likes Johan. Makes sense. You could almost make a case for tampering. That Hank is waxing poetic about Johan, basically sending word that they love him, and will throw big money at him if he makes it to free agency. Now, i don't think that's what he's doing (I think he really just doesn't have a filter between his brain and his mouth. I'd love to play poker with him) but I can see the Twins point, if it's true
O's are shopping Bedard and are looking for 4 prospects. Another lefty with Cy Young stuff. I actually like him better than Haren and just a couple notches or so below Johan. I would worry a little more about him as an injury risk.
Hank is starting to remind me of old school George. Kinda wish he would turn it down a notch and just let things play out. Cashman on the other hand has gone dark. At least we know he is in Nashville.
Hope this doesn't put his future as a Yankee in jeopardy. I thought this team was much better last year when he was called up and playing 1B almost every day.
ETA: Why did they have to make a spot for him anyway? he was on the team last year. Did they give his spot to eomeone else at the end of the year?
hank turn it down a notch? HA! he thinks he's his dad even though the team was handed to him. i love hank though. he's such a dumbass. and someone needs to put a mirror under cashman's nose and/or mouth to see if he's still alive.
i'm actually surprised that pettitte announced he was coming back this early. i'm glad he did announce it though (even as a sox fan) just because it shows he really wants to play for the yanks (or at the very least get the $16mil contract signed).
i'd go santana, haren then bedard just due to bedard's history with injury. obviously if he had a couple full great healthy season under his belt i would flip haren and bedard. i can't see the orioles trading bedard to the yanks or sox. that would just be shooting themselves in the foot. it will be a cold day in hell (ie - decades) before the o's are al east contenders. i'm more worried about the rays and jays than i am the o's.
he showed that he can at least hold his own in the majors. i would be shocked if he made it back to the yanks.