When a friend finds God ...

Heineken Helen

AllNiteThing wrote:

Yeah, I'm definitely referring to the extremists, which I think the OP is referring to as well. They're on both sides of the fence. I have absolutely nothing against those who find faith and comfort in God or any religion for that matter. To each their own. But I'm defending the OP in that I find it extremely annoying when they try to push their beliefs on others or act self righteous and superior with their opinions, because they come from a self-described 'believer'. My aunt is like this and it drives my mad to no end.

I don't think anyone's disagreeing that those people can be seriously fucking annoying At one time I had 4 people trying to convert me to 4 different religions... when I was a non believer! It was strange but I always find the conversation interesting and I will debate it... or if I'm tired and know they won't take no for an answer, I'll find an excuse to go to bed or something . None of them even tempted me once though. I found the muslims to be the most convincing and giving intelligent rational answers... the born again christians freaked me out though with their happy happy we all love eachother ways :eek:

Sometimes it can be fun to play along though

Heineken Helen

LongRd. wrote:

Not sure but I think Lama's and monks will welcome any new believers of their faith. By the way, there are multiple division in Buddhism like as there are in Christianity. So there's always a chance of conflicts between specified groups.

Oh absolutely... If I had to choose to be a part of any religion, it would probably be buddhism... although I don't think I'm a good enough person! I wouldn't do something half heartedly. And yes, anyone can be buddhist and you can be AS buddhist as you choose!

you are

AllNiteThing wrote:

....But people who use it to condemn homosexuals, tell me the Earth is 6,000 years old and tell me I'm going to hell, like they know that as FACT it exists, well then I have a problem.

i'm a christian and i hate when people condemn homosexuals.

and also, i don't understand how some can believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old! there's proof that it's older! my belief (and it's not like i can prove it) is that God did something 6,000 years ago. whether he wiped out the previous population of the earth or created new human beings and plopped them down in the garden of eden. who knows? but i don't make a big fuss about it.

AllNiteThing

Heineken Helen wrote:

I don't think anyone's disagreeing that those people can be seriously fucking annoying At one time I had 4 people trying to convert me to 4 different religions... when I was a non believer! It was strange but I always find the conversation interesting and I will debate it... or if I'm tired and know they won't take no for an answer, I'll find an excuse to go to bed or something . None of them even tempted me once though. I found the muslims to be the most convincing and giving intelligent rational answers... the born again christians freaked me out though with their happy happy we all love eachother ways :eek:

Sometimes it can be fun to play along though

Oh, I LOVE debating/talking religion. I work with a lot of Muslims and find them to be the most open to it. The born-agains are definitely the hardest to debate though, the ones I've talked with get angry and frustrated a lot quicker. I just wish everyone would relax and not take it so seriously. When it comes down to it, none of us really know how this all started and none of us really know how it will all end/continue when we're gone. I also wish people would be more open to possibilities than settling on one spiritual view, especially so early in life. There's so much out there to learn and grow from, so much in science and the universe that we are just now and have yet to discover that I'm always amazed how some people can think they have all the answers.

AllNiteThing

you are wrote:

i'm a christian and i hate when people condemn homosexuals.

and also, i don't understand how some can believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old! there's proof that it's older! my belief (and it's not like i can prove it) is that God did something 6,000 years ago. whether he wiped out the previous population of the earth or created new human beings and plopped them down in the garden of eden. who knows? but i don't make a big fuss about it.

lol that's cool! It's those things that get me, when science can so adequately explain something, I don't know why some people have a hard time accepting it. It's cherry picking science, the same way some people cherry pick what to believe from the bible (abortion bad, living with someone before marriage is ok?).

There's definitely a lot that we can't explain, and if faith helps you with that, like the 6,000 years ago thing, that's awesome! It makes for great conversation at least. Have you ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? He's got some interesting ideas on the garden of eden/start of civilization stuff.

LONGRD

*bumped* boooooo

Heineken Helen

AllNiteThing wrote:

Oh, I LOVE debating/talking religion. I work with a lot of Muslims and find them to be the most open to it. The born-agains are definitely the hardest to debate though, the ones I've talked with get angry and frustrated a lot quicker. I just wish everyone would relax and not take it so seriously. When it comes down to it, none of us really know how this all started and none of us really know how it will all end/continue when we're gone. I also wish people would be more open to possibilities than settling on one spiritual view, especially so early in life. There's so much out there to learn and grow from, so much in science and the universe that we are just now and have yet to discover that I'm always amazed how some people can think they have all the answers.

I agree completely! And yes, I definitely found the muslims to be the most patient and would answer any of my questions... and they didn't SEEM to be forceful and seemed accepting... which is probably why someone looking for a religion might think they'd find what they want there. My aunt is the born again christian and I love her very very much... but she's had a very hard time (her two sons died in a fire) so I'm much more patient with her than I would be with anybody else and I've gone to church with her mainly to make her happy... she tried very hard to get me to become one, lol. It's interesting (to a point) to listen to her debate with my sisters husband (who was 7th day aventist or something) cos they're both very knowledgeable.

And really... nobody has all the answers... or even close!

Collin

Heineken Helen wrote:

I don't think you need religion to be a good person but I think many truly good people at least directly or indirectly follow the morals that were set out in the bible... coincidence?

Most good people subscribe to the golden rule, which is also in the bible but not a uniquely christian concept (it can be found in many religions and in ancient Greek philisophy as well.) That fact that it can be found in all these religions and also in the writings of the Greek philosophers makes me think that it's basis is something else than a 'godly' or religious concept but rather a humane concept. So I'd say it has nothing to do with the bible.

Heineken Helen

Collin wrote:

Most good people subscribe to the golden rule, which is also in the bible but not a uniquely christian concept (it can be found in many religions and in ancient Greek philisophy as well.) That fact that it can be found in all these religions and also in the writings of the Greek philosophers makes me think that it's basis is something else than a 'godly' or religious concept but rather a humane concept. So I'd say it has nothing to do with the bible.

Or perhaps there was one universal original religion and all others broke off from that . After all... the Greeks had their Gods!

Collin

long red wrote:

but an atheist is usually someone who seeks to disprove the existence of god. that is not my goal. i just chose to live a particular way. atheism is a group like catholicism, christianity, etc ... by forming a group, you are mobilizing for or against a certain idea.

There are plenty of atheists who do not want to disprove god. Atheism is not a group, and definitely not a group like catholicism or christianity. There is nothing that connects atheists besides a disbelief or a lack of belief in a deity. There is also nothing that defines atheists except the disbelief or lack of blief in a deity.

If you do not believe in a god, you are an atheist. And you're right, you can claim you are not one just like you can claim a table is really a larry.

Collin

Heineken Helen wrote:

Or perhaps there was one universal original religion and all others broke off from that . After all... the Greeks had their Gods!

Maybe it's just a form of selfishness, a form of survival, a simple thing even a child would learn on his own after a while...

harmless_little_f***

Collin wrote:

There are plenty of atheists who do not want to disprove god. Atheism is not a group, and definitely not a group like catholicism or christianity. There is nothing that connects atheists besides a disbelief or a lack of belief in a deity. There is also nothing that defines atheists except the disbelief or lack of blief in a deity.

If you do not believe in a god, you are an atheist. And you're right, you can claim you are not like you can claim a table is really a larry.

LOL thanks - that last line is the only laugh I've had all day.

Heineken Helen

Collin wrote:

Maybe it's just a form of selfishness, a form of survival, a simple thing even a child would learn on his own after a while...

Maybe... but my point is nobody knows

Unless there's something you're holding back?

you are

AllNiteThing wrote:

lol that's cool! It's those things that get me, when science can so adequately explain something, I don't know why some people have a hard time accepting it. It's cherry picking science, the same way some people cherry pick what to believe from the bible (abortion bad, living with someone before marriage is ok?).

There's definitely a lot that we can't explain, and if faith helps you with that, like the 6,000 years ago thing, that's awesome! It makes for great conversation at least. Have you ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? He's got some interesting ideas on the garden of eden/start of civilization stuff.

no, i haven't even heard of that book, but i just googled it and it seems very interesting. i'll have to check it out, thanks!

writersu

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nicely put!

Thanks, Helen. I guess the truth is that if someone "finds God", then they are suppose to be at peace and content to have found what they (for them in their own life) have been searching for.

When we have to beat each other over the head so they can "join our little club" then we sure don't appear to be so at peace, do we? And then, in that case, all we do is give God a bad name by behaving like spoiled brats.

I do not believe that is what Jesus wants from us.

And even after "finding God", so to speak, I have been on slippery slopes very many times even after that.

Finding God is no guarantee that life is going to be rosy, believe me on that one as well. But finding God for me has meant that I can attribute my sorrows to becoming a better me. But that even has to be looked at objectively because for a long time when people would tell me that I would think, "so, God is f---ing with me? Why?".

it is a journey.

writersu

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

Well, I should clarify. In my case I don't want to hear it because I already know all about Jesus. (In fact, I'm a big fan. ) I don't fit the narrow definition that many have of what it means to be a "Christian" because I don't attend church or subscribe to a particular religion. But I definitely try to live my life according to Jesus' teachings and plan to encourage my children to do the same.

I just find many Christians' insistence that they know something I don't, and the insistence that I'm missing out on something (or worse, am on a path straight to hell, lol) to be redundant and annoying.

And then there's the case of hypocrites. Take my brother, for example. He steals, lies habitually, etc....but if you asked him, he would tell you he's a Christian and he knows the bible like the back of his hand. I wish more people would just live like a Christian rather than tell you that they're a Christian. Lead by example, not just with words...ya know?

Amen!!

I agree............

writersu

pjoasisrule wrote:

Im just sick of the whole being gay is a sin thing. I also dont like the sex before marriage rule.

well, the thought is hate the sin (if you believe these to be sinful) and love the sinner.

writersu

Collin wrote:

It's cool that you want to show love to these people, however, what do you mean with "not really good ways"?

well, what I mean is if me following Christ means that I do not want to , let's say drink or do drugs. (this is only an example; I do no longer either of these but it is due to my getting older and it no longer fitting in with my life as a mom of teenagers, etc. and not feeling good when I did them either.) So, then my stance must be as follows; "doing drugs is not what God wants for me to do." and since I am not exclusively the only person that God loves, then it must also be true (for me) that He doesn't want others as well to do that. Then it is what is living life in what I believe to be "not really good ways", just due to my conclusions on life and God, right?

So, I mean that when others are living their lives these ways, then I am no better a person just because I don't drink or do drugs if my heart is a pompous asshole who looks down on others when they are doing these things.

Do you see what I mean? I did not want to sound like I was being judgemental, and I am sorry if I did that. I never want to be that way or sound that way. again, sorry.

Snake

writersu wrote:

Thanks, Helen. I guess the truth is that if someone "finds God", then they are suppose to be at peace and content to have found what they (for them in their own life) have been searching for.

When we have to beat each other over the head so they can "join our little club" then we sure don't appear to be so at peace, do we? And then, in that case, all we do is give God a bad name by behaving like spoiled brats.

I do not believe that is what Jesus wants from us.

And even after "finding God", so to speak, I have been on slippery slopes very many times even after that.

Finding God is no guarantee that life is going to be rosy, believe me on that one as well. But finding God for me has meant that I can attribute my sorrows to becoming a better me. But that even has to be looked at objectively because for a long time when people would tell me that I would think, "so, God is f---ing with me? Why?".

it is a journey.

That was well put too. lol

I agree with you.

catefrances

long red wrote:

because it insinuates that I spend time classifying myself based on someone else's religious beliefs.

thanks for answering.

i am an atheist and i spend zero time classifying myself according to someone else's beliefs. all it means to me is that i have come to the conclusion that there is no God. and since the age of 11 when i came to that conclusion, i have never doubted myself.

writersu

Snake wrote:

That was well put too. lol

I agree with you.

thanks.

sponger

long red wrote:

because it insinuates that I spend time classifying myself based on someone else's religious beliefs.

Sounds to me like the only reason why you didn't "find" god right alongside with your friend is because you're just afraid of being labeled.

catefrances

sponger wrote:

Sounds to me like the only reason why you didn't "find" god right alongside with your friend is because you're just afraid of being labeled.

umm sponger... i'd fix that quote if i were you. youve attributed it to the wrong person

sponger

catefrances wrote:

umm sponger... i'd fix that quote if i were you. youve attributed it to the wrong person

Thanks. lol. I didn't want to dig through 20 pages to find that particular quote.

catefrances

sponger wrote:

Thanks. lol. I didn't want to dig through 20 pages to find that particular quote.

i did the same thing last night.

orig_long red

sponger wrote:

Sounds to me like the only reason why you didn't "find" god right alongside with your friend is because you're just afraid of being labeled.

if it sounds like that to you, your ears must be broken.

sponger

long red wrote:

if it sounds like that to you, your ears must be broken.

Well, let's face it. It's not that you're interested so much in developing a personalized philosophy pertaining the life and the interpretation thereof, but more or less just playing it safe and not opening yourself up to ideas which you are not ready to discuss.

In fact, that's probably why you want to punch your friend in the throat. You feel like he is stronger than you because he had the strength to choose a side, and you want to prove to him that you're also strong by hurting him physically.

Collin

writersu wrote:

well, what I mean is if me following Christ means that I do not want to , let's say drink or do drugs. (this is only an example; I do no longer either of these but it is due to my getting older and it no longer fitting in with my life as a mom of teenagers, etc. and not feeling good when I did them either.) So, then my stance must be as follows; "doing drugs is not what God wants for me to do." and since I am not exclusively the only person that God loves, then it must also be true (for me) that He doesn't want others as well to do that. Then it is what is living life in what I believe to be "not really good ways", just due to my conclusions on life and God, right?

So, I mean that when others are living their lives these ways, then I am no better a person just because I don't drink or do drugs if my heart is a pompous asshole who looks down on others when they are doing these things.

Do you see what I mean? I did not want to sound like I was being judgemental, and I am sorry if I did that. I never want to be that way or sound that way. again, sorry.

writersu wrote:

well, the thought is hate the sin (if you believe these to be sinful) and love the sinner.

I think this post recapitulates what you're trying to explain to me? I never really understood this philosophy, however. To me it's completely contradictory. But I guess if you can somehow combine the two i.e. hating the "sin" and loving the sinner, there's no problem.

orig_long red

sponger wrote:

Well, let's face it. It's not that you're interested so much in developing a personalized philosophy pertaining the life and the interpretation thereof, but more or less just playing it safe and not opening yourself up to ideas which you are not ready to discuss.

In fact, that's probably why you want to punch your friend in the throat. You feel like he is stronger than you because he had the strength to choose a side, and you want to prove to him that you're also strong by hurting him physically.

wow Freud, that's pretty impressive. are you going to tell me next that I want to have sex with my mother?

the strength to chose a side? are you for real? I have chosen a side. My side. Just because my side doesn't have it's own pointy building for me to kneel in once a week, doesn't make it any less of a side.

and obviously, I dont really want to punch him in the fucking throat. sometimes you say certain things to get the ball rolling. It's called showmanship.

I have my own philosophies and my own way of living. It's ethical and moral, but not because I'm vying for a spot on a cloud.

Snake

Collin wrote:

I think this post recapitulates what you're trying to explain to me? I never really understood this philosophy, however. To me it's completely contradictory. But I guess if you can somehow combine the two i.e. hating the "sin" and loving the sinner, there's no problem.

Its pretty easy. Im sure you have a friend, or have had, or whatever, who you know is doing something wrong. It doesnt have to be "sin" but something thats hurting themselves or others. Its just simply loving the person, helping them, or supporting them, maybe simply by being their friend, while knowing what they are doing is wrong. You probably hate what they are doing, but you still love them.