When a friend finds God ...

orig_long red

catefrances wrote:

long red:
how is it an insult to be called an atheist?

because it insinuates that I spend time classifying myself based on someone else's religious beliefs.

Ledbetterman10

long red wrote:

Don't you just want to punch him in the fucking throat? Brainwashing is alive and well.

good ole long red

orig_long red

Heineken Helen wrote:

excuses excuses... it's possible religion was the first form of society or one of. I wonder if religion came from society or if society was born out of people drawn together by a common interest such as some kinda thing they perceived to be a god. I would imagine society came first, makes sense... but words like 'ethics' or 'morals' who knows which came when or why.

yea, i'm thinking society came first and religion was born out of the need to explain what they didn't understand. (i.e. thunder, lightning, death). As for morals or ethics, in caveman times, it was probably wrong to smash your fellow caveman's head in with a club. and thats a societal wrong. something that came before religion.

LONGRD

long red wrote:

yea, i'm thinking society came first and religion was born out of the need to explain what they didn't understand. (i.e. thunder, lightning, death). As for morals or ethics, in caveman times, it was probably wrong to smash your fellow caveman's head in with a club. and thats a societal wrong. something that came before religion.

It's Evolution Baby!

Heineken Helen

long red wrote:

yea, i'm thinking society came first and religion was born out of the need to explain what they didn't understand. (i.e. thunder, lightning, death). As for morals or ethics, in caveman times, it was probably wrong to smash your fellow caveman's head in with a club. and thats a societal wrong. something that came before religion.

how do you know? It was probably completely acceptable to smash your fellow cavemans head in... see this is something we could debate but you don't know, I don't know... which came first! Until you know whether 'morals' or 'ethics' came first... they're just the same as eachother!

you are

long red wrote:

i'm no moper.

BUT ... Life is miserable! We each exist for a miniscule, insignificant amount of time. Nothing we do will have any kind of impact in the grand scheme of the universe. Some people find that so depressing that they need to invent a scenario that puts them on "high" at the right hand of an invisible man, resting on mattress made of clouds.

bogus!

but I, sir, am no moper. I am content in my nothingness.

that's your belief and i feel like you're shoving it down my throat

harmless_little_f***

long red wrote:

because it insinuates that I spend time classifying myself based on someone else's religious beliefs.

Come on man, you either believe in God or you don't. 'Atheist' is no more a derogatory term than 'Astronaut' and atheists freely define themselves as atheists.

orig_long red

you are wrote:

that's your belief and i feel like you're shoving it down my throat

because it's so delicious? I understand.

orig_long red

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

Come on man, you either believe in God or you don't. 'Atheist' is no more a derogatory term than 'Astronaut' and atheists freely define themselves as atheists.

let the atheists define themselves as such. I chose not to. my belief system is without definition.

harmless_little_f***

long red wrote:

let the atheists define themselves as such. I chose not to. my belief system is without definition.

An astronaut cannot get away from the fact he is an astronaut. A table cannot get away from being a table. A tree cannot get away from being a tree. Now stop annoying me with your pseudo-Freidrich Nietzsche 'language means nothing' bullshit.

Do you believe in God?

AllNiteThing

know1 wrote:

Exhibit A above.

What exactly is wrong with finding God. Generally, it means that they are trying to live a better life, be kinder to others, more honest, etc.

Even if you don't believe in God, it's pretty difficult to come up with rational reasons to argue against those.

You can live a great life, be kinder to others, be more honest, etc WITHOUT church. Sure, it helps some people become better individuals, but obviously by the responses of many here, and my own personal experience, that's not the case. 'Finding God' usually entails losing any rational thought or opinions on world issues, and just spouting what the priest/pope/etc says. i.e. 'it is bad because the bible says so' is not a logical end to an argument, but people who 'find god' use it as such. Also, people who 'find god' are usually the most judgemental and self-righteous people, yet that goes against what they are supposedly about. Those who 'find god' act like they have found all the answers to life's problems and mysteries, and minimalize the lifelong journey of self discovery and spirituality that many of us want to take on our own. It's just a grown up version of the infantile 'I'm better than you' mindset.

Heineken Helen

long red wrote:

my belief system is without definition.

As is mine!

Heineken Helen

AllNiteThing wrote:

You can live a great life, be kinder to others, be more honest, etc WITHOUT church. Sure, it helps some people become better individuals, but obviously by the responses of many here, and my own personal experience, that's not the case. 'Finding God' usually entails losing any rational thought or opinions on world issues, and just spouting what the priest/pope/etc says. i.e. 'it is bad because the bible says so' is not a logical end to an argument, but people who 'find god' use it as such. Also, people who 'find god' are usually the most judgemental and self-righteous people, yet that goes against what they are supposedly about. Those who 'find god' act like they have found all the answers to life's problems and mysteries, and minimalize the lifelong journey of self discovery and spirituality that many of us want to take on our own. It's just a grown up version of the infantile 'I'm better than you' mindset.

I 'found God' and you were still happy to accept my opinion and advice on your thread a couple of weeks ago . Do you think I don't have an opinion on world issues? Hahahahaha... that'd be a first You can't generalise about people who've 'found god' just as I won't generalise about you not finding him.

you are

long red wrote:

because it's so delicious? I understand.

ok, so you come back with some remark instead of admitting that maybe you have your own beliefs and your friend has his own beliefs. you know you can agree to disagree. why can't you just let it be? you say he's brainwashed, well what if you're the one who's brainwashed? we could do this all day long and get nowhere.

orig_long red

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

An astronaut cannot get away from the fact he is an astronaut. A table cannot get away from being a table. A tree cannot get away from being a tree. Now stop annoying me with your pseudo-Freidrich Nietzsche 'language means nothing' bullshit.

Do you believe in God?

language is only the label we apply to objects. i could easily call a "table" a "larry" and it would still be wooden thing morons knock on for good luck.

i believe in the power of me to control what happens to me. i also believe in the power of others and find it sad when those others chose to give power over to something unavailable and indefinable.

orig_long red

you are wrote:

ok, so you come back with some remark instead of admitting that maybe you have your own beliefs and your friend has his own beliefs. you know you can agree to disagree. why can't you just let it be? you say he's brainwashed, well what if you're the one who's brainwashed? we could do this all day long and get nowhere.

i first posted this thread out of frustration that a once-level headed friend has hit the crazy skids. of course i'm going to let him believe what he wants. i have no intention of punching him in the throat.

eMMI

Heineken Helen wrote:

I 'found God' and you were still happy to accept my opinion and advice on your thread a couple of weeks ago . Do you think I don't have an opinion on world issues? Hahahahaha... that'd be a first You can't generalise about people who've 'found god' just as I won't generalise about you not finding him.

THANK YOU Helen!! couldn't have put it better myself!

it frustrates me when people think all who believe in God lack opinions or a will of their own. people are always surprised when they find I believe in Him. :rolleyes:

you are

long red wrote:

....find it sad when those others chose to give power over to something unavailable and indefinable.

i'm not here to argue. but to say it's giving power over to something unavailable and indefinable is your life experience, not mine, and obviously not your friend.

and i'm glad you're not really going to punch him in the throat

Heineken Helen

eMMI wrote:

THANK YOU Helen!! couldn't have put it better myself!

it frustrates me when people think all who believe in God lack opinions or a will of their own. people are always surprised when they find I believe in Him. :rolleyes:

They're probably surprised I believe in him too... but to be honest I'm of the belief that whatever makes somebody happy is good... whether it's believing or not believing or not even knowing... whatever! If it works for you, keep it! But don't judge others who choose differently... this goes for both sides!

AllNiteThing

Heineken Helen wrote:

I 'found God' and you were still happy to accept my opinion and advice on your thread a couple of weeks ago . Do you think I don't have an opinion on world issues? Hahahahaha... that'd be a first You can't generalise about people who've 'found god' just as I won't generalise about you not finding him.

Just bad experiences with the religious folk in my life I guess. Of course you can believe in god and have your own valid opinons on things, I just can't take when every argument/debate comes down to 'well, god says so' or 'it is in the bible', etc etc. That's like me taking every one of my opinions from the Harry Potter books or something equally ridiculous. When you take all of your opinions from something that is completely faith based and not grounded in fact, evidence or reality, then I cannot relate. Sure, religion helps those cope with the unknown of death or what caused the universe to form, etc etc. But people who use it to condemn homosexuals, tell me the Earth is 6,000 years old and tell me I'm going to hell, like they know that as FACT it exists, well then I have a problem.

harmless_little_f***

long red wrote:

language is only the label we apply to objects. i could easily call a "table" a "larry" and it would still be wooden thing morons knock on for good luck.

i believe in the power of me to control what happens to me. i also believe in the power of others and find it sad when those others chose to give power over to something unavailable and indefinable.

Well unfortunately you've just defined your belief system. And it sounds atheistic. I don't give too hoots either way, but at least admit that a God does not figure in your belief system. Unfortunately a hell of a lot of belief systems have been well defined in the past and I'd bet you any amount of money that yours would fit quite comfortably into at least one of them. Nothing is new under the sun.

Heineken Helen

long red wrote:

i believe in the power of me to control what happens to me. i also believe in the power of others and find it sad when those others chose to give power over to something unavailable and indefinable.

that's strange... I find my belief makes me feel more powerful, not less!

Heineken Helen

AllNiteThing wrote:

Just bad experiences with the religious folk in my life I guess. Of course you can believe in god and have your own valid opinons on things, I just can't take when every argument/debate comes down to 'well, god says so' or 'it is in the bible', etc etc. That's like me taking every one of my opinions from the Harry Potter books or something equally ridiculous. When you take all of your opinions from something that is completely faith based and not grounded in fact, evidence or reality, then I cannot relate. Sure, religion helps those cope with the unknown of death or what caused the universe to form, etc etc. But people who use it to condemn homosexuals, tell me the Earth is 6,000 years old and tell me I'm going to hell, like they know that as FACT it exists, well then I have a problem.

well I'm certainly not one of those people... and I don't think I've ever taken a line from the bible and referred to it as fact. There are extremists in every group of people... there are extreme christians, muslims, athiests, whatever... these will always force their opinions down your throat. I know the difference between faith and fact. And even though I believe in God, death is still unknown, I have no idea how the universe formed, I have nothing against homosexuals, I've no idea how old the earth is and I don't know if hell even exists, never mind if you're going there. Finding god does not always equate finding religion

eMMI

AllNiteThing wrote:

Just bad experiences with the religious folk in my life I guess. Of course you can believe in god and have your own valid opinons on things, I just can't take when every argument/debate comes down to 'well, god says so' or 'it is in the bible', etc etc. That's like me taking every one of my opinions from the Harry Potter books or something equally ridiculous. When you take all of your opinions from something that is completely faith based and not grounded in fact, evidence or reality, then I cannot relate. Sure, religion helps those cope with the unknown of death or what caused the universe to form, etc etc. But people who use it to condemn homosexuals, tell me the Earth is 6,000 years old and tell me I'm going to hell, like they know that as FACT it exists, well then I have a problem.

well that's fair enough. I'd have a problem in that situation too.

LONGRD

Heineken Helen wrote:

well I'm certainly not one of those people... and I don't think I've ever taken a line from the bible and referred to it as fact. There are extremists in every group of people... there are extreme christians, muslims, athiests, whatever... these will always force their opinions down your throat. I know the difference between faith and fact. And even though I believe in God, death is still unknown, I have no idea how the universe formed, I have nothing against homosexuals, I've no idea how old the earth is and I don't know if hell even exists, never mind if you're going there. Finding god does not always equate finding religion

Buddhists have been pretty peaceful group. Technically, it's not a religion though. (don't quote me on that though, not positive)

orig_long red

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

Well unfortunately you've just defined your belief system. And it sounds atheistic. I don't give too hoots either way, but at least admit that a God does not figure in your belief system. Unfortunately a hell of a lot of belief systems have been well defined in the past and I'd bet you any amount of money that yours would fit quite comfortably into at least one of them. Nothing is new under the sun.

but an atheist is usually someone who seeks to disprove the existence of god. that is not my goal. i just chose to live a particular way. atheism is a group like catholicism, christianity, etc ... by forming a group, you are mobilizing for or against a certain idea.

Heineken Helen

LongRd. wrote:

Buddhists have been pretty peaceful group. Technically, it's not a religion though. (don't quote me on that though, not positive)

True.. but in the past few years it became cool to become a buddhist and unfortunately almost anyone can call themselves one... this includes people who aren't actually buddhist at all... so do they represent the entire religion/group ?

orig_long red

i just want to say that i'm very proud of this thread and the debate it has spurred. i feel as though i've provided a service for the entire fanbase.

AllNiteThing

Heineken Helen wrote:

well I'm certainly not one of those people... and I don't think I've ever taken a line from the bible and referred to it as fact. There are extremists in every group of people... there are extreme christians, muslims, athiests, whatever... these will always force their opinions down your throat. I know the difference between faith and fact. And even though I believe in God, death is still unknown, I have no idea how the universe formed, I have nothing against homosexuals, I've no idea how old the earth is and I don't know if hell even exists, never mind if you're going there. Finding god does not always equate finding religion

Yeah, I'm definitely referring to the extremists, which I think the OP is referring to as well. They're on both sides of the fence. I have absolutely nothing against those who find faith and comfort in God or any religion for that matter. To each their own. But I'm defending the OP in that I find it extremely annoying when they try to push their beliefs on others or act self righteous and superior with their opinions, because they come from a self-described 'believer'. My aunt is like this and it drives my mad to no end.

LONGRD

Heineken Helen wrote:

True.. but in the past few years it became cool to become a buddhist and unfortunately almost anyone can call themselves one... this includes people who aren't actually buddhist at all... so do they represent the entire religion/group ?

Not sure but I think Lama's and monks will welcome any new believers of their faith. By the way, there are multiple division in Buddhism like as there are in Christianity. So there's always a chance of conflicts between specified groups.