i have to wonder why it would take so long for a woman to make the decision to procure an abortion.
she had tests done at a particular point in the development of the foetus and it was discovered that the child had downs syndrome or something. she was already suffering mental illness and this tipped her over the edge. and the only reason I know this is because of that asshole McGauran.
And that is exactly why they should be available cate. Because some tests cannot be performed early in the pregnancy and some people cannot cope with pregnancy. it's unfortunate, but necessary in some cases.
she had tests done at a particular point in the development of the foetus and it was discovered that the child had downs syndrome or something. she was already suffering mental illness and this tipped her over the edge. and the only reason I know this is because of that asshole McGauran.
And that is exactly why they should be available cate. Because some tests cannot be performed early in the pregnancy and some people cannot cope with pregnancy. it's unfortunate, but necessary in some cases.
there are always extenuating circumstances in some cases which should always be taken into account. this really isn't a one size fits all issue. it is highly personal and indivdualistic.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
There have been late term abortions performed by doctors here on women. The last poor woman that it happened to is still receiving psychiatric treatment because of that nut job McGauran and his blatant disregard for her wellbeing and her privacy.
And abortion still has not been decriminalized here in Victoria.
There are stipulations regarding the age of the foetus but late term abortions do still happen here in Victoria and doctors and women can still be prosecuted for providing or procuring an abortion.
Two Australian States, Victoria and South Australia, have legislation that make it a crime to act with intent to destroy 'a child capable of being born alive' before it has an existence independent of its mother, unless the act is done in good faith solely to preserve the mother's life.(172) Evidence that the woman in question had been pregnant for 28 weeks or more is considered to be prima facie proof that she was carrying 'a child capable of being born alive'. The penalty for committing child destruction is ten years' imprisonment in Victoria and life imprisonment in South Australia.
It goes on to say that there are exceptions if the mother's health is at risk. Which is exactly what I agree with, it is exactly how the law is, and it's really the only rational, unbias and egalitarian position to have on abortion.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
My problem has always been the way this debate is handled.
Look at the thread title "War on Women"
Ok? Being a woman alone does not mean you are pro-choice. There is discontinuty in what women think about abortion. This is a case of a woman assuming that all women share her views, and it's a misogynistic "war" on "women". That is absolutely not the case.
Yet, this paradigm has been championed throughout this thread. Jeanie claiming all women are like her, etc.. It's not even about women, women just happen to be a huge part of pregnancy and abortion.
If everyone takes a personal, or ideological view of this issue then the debates are pointless. It can only end it people's raised emotions and all out personal attacks. All I'm trying to do is bring some reason to the debate and to quash these arguments that seek to degrade other's opinions because of their sex, or their religious beliefs.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
My problem has always been the way this debate is handled.
Look at the thread title "War on Women"
Ok? Being a woman alone does not mean you are pro-choice. There is discontinuty in what women think about abortion. This is a case of a woman assuming that all women share her views, and it's a misogynistic "war" on "women". That is absolutely not the case.
Yet, this paradigm has been championed throughout this thread. Jeanie claiming all women are like her, etc.. It's not even about women, women just happen to be a huge part of pregnancy and abortion.
If everyone takes a personal, or ideological view of this issue then the debates are pointless. It can only end it people's raised emotions and all out personal attacks. All I'm trying to do is bring some reason to the debate and to quash these arguments that seek to degrade other's opinions because of their sex, or their religious beliefs.
I do agree with this. Except you keep spelling discontinuity wrong. Sorry, but it was driving me nuts.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
I do agree with this. Except you keep spelling discontinuity wrong. Sorry, but it was driving me nuts.
Sorry Wolf. I know how it is spelled, but I guess my muscle memory has it wrong. I'm a touch-typer so I don't put much thought into spelling, unless I'm training my muscles.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Sorry Wolf. I know how it is spelled, but I guess my muscle memory has it wrong. I'm a touch-typer so I don't put much thought into spelling, unless I'm training my muscles.
I guess I'll give your "muscle memory" a break this time. lol
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
I guess I'll give your "muscle memory" a break this time. lol
Thanks for pointing it out though. I don't inteionally mispel stuffs, so I wellcom you're inputt.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Thanks for pointing it out though. I don't inteionally mispel stuffs, so I wellcom you're inputt.
Ok, that's too much. Don't push me.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
It took a surprising amount of effort to mispell all those words.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
there are always extenuating circumstances in some cases which should always be taken into account. this really isn't a one size fits all issue. it is highly personal and indivdualistic.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
My problem has always been the way this debate is handled.
Look at the thread title "War on Women"
Ok? Being a woman alone does not mean you are pro-choice. There is discontinuty in what women think about abortion. This is a case of a woman assuming that all women share her views, and it's a misogynistic "war" on "women". That is absolutely not the case.
Yet, this paradigm has been championed throughout this thread. Jeanie claiming all women are like her, etc.. It's not even about women, women just happen to be a huge part of pregnancy and abortion.
If everyone takes a personal, or ideological view of this issue then the debates are pointless. It can only end it people's raised emotions and all out personal attacks. All I'm trying to do is bring some reason to the debate and to quash these arguments that seek to degrade other's opinions because of their sex, or their religious beliefs.
Where did I claim that all women are like me or share my views?
I simply said I, (ME) am tired of this issue being hijacked by men and that hasn't changed. If you don't wish for your opinion to be degraded then don't do it to others. Fairly simple.
And it is a War on Women. When was the last time you were spat on for being a woman entering an abortion clinic? When was the last time you, as a man, was jostled, abused, harrassed or harangued on your way in or out of an abortion clinic simply because you were there? When was the last time that your colleagues were held at gunpoint by a nut job and forced to watch as one of your work mates were murdered in front of you SIMPLY for being at an abortion clinic? When was the last time that you as a hospital worker was targeted on your way in or out of work by Anti Abortionists purely because you are a woman AND you work at a place where abortions are performed? How many times have you had to hold your tongue and attempt to get where you are going or away from placard weilding, angry, misguided and vile creatures with an agenda who would seek to stop you purely because they believe that as a woman you have no right to even be in the vicinity of a place where abortions are performed? Sorry if that makes me emotional, misguided or pissed off, but guess what? It does. And I can see it as no other way than as a War On Women.
Where did I claim that all women are like me or share my views?
I simply said I, (ME) am tired of this issue being hijacked by men and that hasn't changed. If you don't wish for your opinion to be degraded then don't do it to others. Fairly simple.
And it is a War on Women. When was the last time you were spat on for being a woman entering an abortion clinic? When was the last time you, as a man, was jostled, abused, harrassed or harangued on your way in or out of an abortion clinic simply because you were there? When was the last time that your colleagues were held at gunpoint by a nut job and forced to watch as one of your work mates were murdered in front of you SIMPLY for being at an abortion clinic? When was the last time that you as a hospital worker was targeted on your way in or out of work by Anti Abortionists purely because you are a woman AND you work at a place where abortions are performed? How many times have you had to hold your tongue and attempt to get where you are going or away from placard weilding, angry, misguided and vile creatures with an agenda who would seek to stop you purely because they believe that as a woman you have no right to even be in the vicinity of a place where abortions are performed? Sorry if that makes me emotional, misguided or pissed off, but guess what? It does. And I can see it as no other way than as a War On Women.
Here is an interesting webpage, it's called "pro-woman, pro-life"
It's not a war on women. Do you get it yet Jeanie? Or are you still having problems with your "feminism"?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Jeanie, you said "this is a war on women" not "this is a war on women that think like me (pro-choice)". The former statement is false, and implies that all women must be pro-choice, in-fact they are not. Not to mention, a man working in an abortion clinic is just as likely to be harassed and murdered for supporting abortion.
In that Australian legislation I posted, the physician is more likely to serve a prison sentence for unlawful abortion than the woman having the abortion is. It's a "war on abortion" not women.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Gee ss if you think I was getting huffy yesterday, you should catch up on today!
I keep forgetting the abortion debate is all about the power of the dick, or lack there of.
This has nothing to do with men/women, there is no battle of the sexes Jeanie.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Wanna join us? There's a bunch of people I know that are feeling the need to picket a few churches and disrupt entry in and out with our views.
Of course we'll probably will never do it, because it's such a waste of time, but each and every time I see them all lined up there on Richmond Hill I feel like marching down the road a few hundred metres and playing Marilyn Manson loudly and making a pentagram in chalk on the sidewalk right out the front of their church. With a bit of luck it would allow a few poor girls and their partners the opportunity to get to their cars and away without being set upon by the dogs.
Does being a supporter of feminism automatically mean that person must embrace abortion? Couldn't being pro-choice mean that you uphold the choice to NOT support abortion? Also, as far as men are concerned, they certainly should have a choice as well. It is their child as much as it is the womans. Takes two to create it, should take two to decide its fate.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Jeanie, you said "this is a war on women" not "this is a war on women that think like me (pro-choice)". The former statement is false, and implies that all women must be pro-choice, in-fact they are not. Not to mention, a man working in an abortion clinic is just as likely to be harassed and murdered for supporting abortion.
In that Australian legislation I posted, the physician is more likely to serve a prison sentence for unlawful abortion than the woman having the abortion is. It's a "war on abortion" not women.
You need to catch up on what's happening in Australia regarding abortion Ahnimus, I suggest you start reading more about McGauran and what he has been able to achieve in terms of the abortion situation. He's all for women going to jail. And he's using his power to push for that. He's also all for changing the legislation, making the medical records of women who have had abortions open for public scrutiny and for prosecuting doctors who perform abortions "legally". A man was murdered here for working in an abortion clinic. A family man, a security guard with children, shot down simply for working in an Abortion clinic, which I might add, also provides sexual and reproductive health care for women in its services.
As to what my statements 'imply', I am not responsible for how you interpret what I say. Before you put anymore words in my mouth, I suggest you check your own personal filter at the door.
are you sure about this? I think I would have to disagree.
"Seventy-seven percent of respondents said abortion should either be generally available, or available but with stricter limits than now. Just 22 percent said abortion should not be permitted."
"Seventy-seven percent of respondents said abortion should either be generally available, or available but with stricter limits than now. Just 22 percent said abortion should not be permitted."
In the south just 25% said abortion should not be permitted
"a CBS News/New York Times poll" this is an online poll. It is not a credible source. We do not know how many responded in total. It could be 22% out of a pool of say 50 people. It could also include multiple responders. There also is no demographic consideration.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
You need to catch up on what's happening in Australia regarding abortion Ahnimus, I suggest you start reading more about McGauran and what he has been able to achieve in terms of the abortion situation. He's all for women going to jail. And he's using his power to push for that. He's also all for changing the legislation, making the medical records of women who have had abortions open for public scrutiny and for prosecuting doctors who perform abortions "legally". A man was murdered here for working in an abortion clinic. A family man, a security guard with children, shot down simply for working in an Abortion clinic, which I might add, also provides sexual and reproductive health care for women in its services.
As to what my statements 'imply', I am not responsible for how you interpret what I say. Before you put anymore words in my mouth, I suggest you check your own personal filter at the door.
Jeanie, I'm laughing, honestly. Your responses are so off the wall, it's hilarious. You confirmed what I was saying about men being the targets of the "war on ABORTION" as well, not just women, it's not a "war on WOMEN" as you keep saying. Furthermore, you incorrectly stated what the law was, that the law is "in support of women" when we were discussing late pregnancy abortions, and I provided the link to the Parliament of Australia Library.
Don't give me this crap you are giving me now. Nice recovery tactic, but can't you just take a pill, drop your feminist attitude toward this topic and pick up a more egalitarian and educated approach?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Feminism
Is typically believed to be an "Equal" or "Egalitarian" view. But I argue that feminism is actually a view of "female superiority".
Masculinism
Is typically viewed to be synonymous with oppression of women, and for my purposes, masculinism is representative of "male superiority".
Egalitarianism
I would also accept a term like "equalism" is the view from equal representation that views neither sex as superior.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
"a CBS News/New York Times poll" this is an online poll. It is not a credible source. We do not know how many responded in total. It could be 22% out of a pool of say 50 people. It could also include multiple responders. There also is no demographic consideration.
"This poll was conducted among a nationwide random sample of 814 adults, interviewed by telephone January 19-21, 2003."
The VAST MAJORITY of people in the United States (the south included) are in favor of abortion being legal.
Is this backed up by polls or some sorta stats. Just curious, b/c everybody I talk to is adamantly against it, as am I. I dunno if I have ever heard a person approve of abortion in person. There are certainly extenuating circumstances, but I think if you make your bed, you lie in it.
Comments
she had tests done at a particular point in the development of the foetus and it was discovered that the child had downs syndrome or something. she was already suffering mental illness and this tipped her over the edge. and the only reason I know this is because of that asshole McGauran.
And that is exactly why they should be available cate. Because some tests cannot be performed early in the pregnancy and some people cannot cope with pregnancy. it's unfortunate, but necessary in some cases.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
there are always extenuating circumstances in some cases which should always be taken into account. this really isn't a one size fits all issue. it is highly personal and indivdualistic.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Nice source Jeanie. Try this:
http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/Pubs/RP/1998-99/99rp01.htm
Two Australian States, Victoria and South Australia, have legislation that make it a crime to act with intent to destroy 'a child capable of being born alive' before it has an existence independent of its mother, unless the act is done in good faith solely to preserve the mother's life.(172) Evidence that the woman in question had been pregnant for 28 weeks or more is considered to be prima facie proof that she was carrying 'a child capable of being born alive'. The penalty for committing child destruction is ten years' imprisonment in Victoria and life imprisonment in South Australia.
It goes on to say that there are exceptions if the mother's health is at risk. Which is exactly what I agree with, it is exactly how the law is, and it's really the only rational, unbias and egalitarian position to have on abortion.
Look at the thread title "War on Women"
Ok? Being a woman alone does not mean you are pro-choice. There is discontinuty in what women think about abortion. This is a case of a woman assuming that all women share her views, and it's a misogynistic "war" on "women". That is absolutely not the case.
Yet, this paradigm has been championed throughout this thread. Jeanie claiming all women are like her, etc.. It's not even about women, women just happen to be a huge part of pregnancy and abortion.
If everyone takes a personal, or ideological view of this issue then the debates are pointless. It can only end it people's raised emotions and all out personal attacks. All I'm trying to do is bring some reason to the debate and to quash these arguments that seek to degrade other's opinions because of their sex, or their religious beliefs.
Sorry Wolf. I know how it is spelled, but I guess my muscle memory has it wrong. I'm a touch-typer so I don't put much thought into spelling, unless I'm training my muscles.
Thanks for pointing it out though. I don't inteionally mispel stuffs, so I wellcom you're inputt.
It took a surprising amount of effort to mispell all those words.
I agree.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Where did I claim that all women are like me or share my views?
I simply said I, (ME) am tired of this issue being hijacked by men and that hasn't changed. If you don't wish for your opinion to be degraded then don't do it to others. Fairly simple.
And it is a War on Women. When was the last time you were spat on for being a woman entering an abortion clinic? When was the last time you, as a man, was jostled, abused, harrassed or harangued on your way in or out of an abortion clinic simply because you were there? When was the last time that your colleagues were held at gunpoint by a nut job and forced to watch as one of your work mates were murdered in front of you SIMPLY for being at an abortion clinic? When was the last time that you as a hospital worker was targeted on your way in or out of work by Anti Abortionists purely because you are a woman AND you work at a place where abortions are performed? How many times have you had to hold your tongue and attempt to get where you are going or away from placard weilding, angry, misguided and vile creatures with an agenda who would seek to stop you purely because they believe that as a woman you have no right to even be in the vicinity of a place where abortions are performed? Sorry if that makes me emotional, misguided or pissed off, but guess what? It does. And I can see it as no other way than as a War On Women.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Here is an interesting webpage, it's called "pro-woman, pro-life"
http://www.gargaro.com/noabort.html
Do a google image search for pro-life, and lo and behold, many of the pro-life individuals in the photographs are women.
http://images.google.com/images?q=pro-life&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
It's not a war on women. Do you get it yet Jeanie? Or are you still having problems with your "feminism"?
me and my kind?
Gee ss if you think I was getting huffy yesterday, you should catch up on today!
I keep forgetting the abortion debate is all about the power of the dick, or lack there of.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
In that Australian legislation I posted, the physician is more likely to serve a prison sentence for unlawful abortion than the woman having the abortion is. It's a "war on abortion" not women.
This has nothing to do with men/women, there is no battle of the sexes Jeanie.
Wanna join us?
Of course we'll probably will never do it, because it's such a waste of time, but each and every time I see them all lined up there on Richmond Hill I feel like marching down the road a few hundred metres and playing Marilyn Manson loudly and making a pentagram in chalk on the sidewalk right out the front of their church. With a bit of luck it would allow a few poor girls and their partners the opportunity to get to their cars and away without being set upon by the dogs.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
You are the one that apparently is having the "problems" with me and my "feminism".
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
You need to catch up on what's happening in Australia regarding abortion Ahnimus, I suggest you start reading more about McGauran and what he has been able to achieve in terms of the abortion situation. He's all for women going to jail. And he's using his power to push for that. He's also all for changing the legislation, making the medical records of women who have had abortions open for public scrutiny and for prosecuting doctors who perform abortions "legally". A man was murdered here for working in an abortion clinic. A family man, a security guard with children, shot down simply for working in an Abortion clinic, which I might add, also provides sexual and reproductive health care for women in its services.
As to what my statements 'imply', I am not responsible for how you interpret what I say. Before you put anymore words in my mouth, I suggest you check your own personal filter at the door.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Please note the use of emoticons in my post which directed at conor who I'm sure is well aware of the joke.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
"Seventy-seven percent of respondents said abortion should either be generally available, or available but with stricter limits than now. Just 22 percent said abortion should not be permitted."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/22/opinion/polls/main537570.shtml
In the south just 25% said abortion should not be permitted
Jeanie, I'm laughing, honestly. Your responses are so off the wall, it's hilarious. You confirmed what I was saying about men being the targets of the "war on ABORTION" as well, not just women, it's not a "war on WOMEN" as you keep saying. Furthermore, you incorrectly stated what the law was, that the law is "in support of women" when we were discussing late pregnancy abortions, and I provided the link to the Parliament of Australia Library.
Don't give me this crap you are giving me now. Nice recovery tactic, but can't you just take a pill, drop your feminist attitude toward this topic and pick up a more egalitarian and educated approach?
Feminism
Is typically believed to be an "Equal" or "Egalitarian" view. But I argue that feminism is actually a view of "female superiority".
Masculinism
Is typically viewed to be synonymous with oppression of women, and for my purposes, masculinism is representative of "male superiority".
Egalitarianism
I would also accept a term like "equalism" is the view from equal representation that views neither sex as superior.
"This poll was conducted among a nationwide random sample of 814 adults, interviewed by telephone January 19-21, 2003."
Is this backed up by polls or some sorta stats. Just curious, b/c everybody I talk to is adamantly against it, as am I. I dunno if I have ever heard a person approve of abortion in person. There are certainly extenuating circumstances, but I think if you make your bed, you lie in it.