Same old boring stuff from corporate whore the virgin and abstainer with an opinion about something he knows nothing about. :rolleyes:
Not to mention endless crap from fishboy.
Yup I'm bored of it.
Please fellas, when you're next having a medical procedure can you let me know. I need to come protest and call you names and give you shit. It's only fair. You deserve it.
Know this. If by chance some leftover from his ejaculation gets stuck in me, it's coming out, with the vacuum. If he wants to keep it and let it grow inside him so be it but be damned I'm being the incubator. And you'll not be stopping me.
This is precisely the attitude that keeps abortion an issue.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Don't talk to me about attitude. I just read endless bloody pages of yours.
Why waste your time? You are just like most people who "debate" this issue. You aren't open to debate, you have your mind set on this paradigm "It's my body I'll do what I want." and you won't defend that position against the fact that a human fetus is not your body. You simply lash out, like Catefrances with some irrational and emotionally charged rubbish.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
This is the problem I see with the abortion debate. You have two completely stubborn and opposed groups with indefensible ideological views.
Pro-Life
The soul enters the fetus at the point of conception.
This is a typical pro-life argument and it's indefensible. There is no evidence of a soul, and the organism isn't even a "fetus" at the point of conception. These people tend to be negligent about the actual process of human physical development.
Pro-Choice
It's my body and I'll do what I want with it.
It's not your body. It's the body of another organism that was created within your body. It is connected to your body by an cord that provides it with nutrients. I suppose you could ingest something deadly and kill the child that way. But be warned, this is deteriorating the image of women as being all-loving caring individuals. This whole position of pro-choice is typically a matter of self-interest and very little concern for the fetus.
A stricly unbias approach
Once the fetus is viable, it's well into pregnancy and the decision to abort should have been made, save some unforseen complications. The fetus has a fully functional central nervous system, is arguably aware to some degree and can certainly sense pain. Barring some extenuating circumstances abortion of a viable fetus is absolutely a selfish act by the mother. Prior to the age of viability, I can't definitely say that the fetus is aware, it has only a partially functioning CNS and probably cannot sense pain to any meaningful degree. Since it's not a viable human being with sensory perceptions, the primary focus of concern should be on the mother's future, and that makes it a matter of personal choice.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Why waste your time? You are just like most people who "debate" this issue. You aren't open to debate, you have your mind set on this paradigm "It's my body I'll do what I want." and you won't defend that position against the fact that a human fetus is not your body. You simply lash out, like Catefrances with some irrational and emotionally charged rubbish.
You're not debating the issue either Ryan. You're monopolizing it as usual.
You've decided HOW women should be, you've decided that anyone that doesn't agree with your very pc and moderate views is clearly a rampant feminazi, so really what is the fucking point? You'll never have an abortion, you'll never be pregnant, so you'll never REALLY KNOW. And you can tell me that you think you know till the cows come home, you can tell me all about the very clever stuff you've read that you think makes you a superior expert on the subject but you don't know and unless there's some radical advances in science and biology you will never know. Now go find a debate that's more satisfying for you. Clearly you've taken over this one with your crap so there's no challenge here anymore. I think you'll never advance your cause with this kind of communication and I think you should shut up. Much like you think I have no right to my body and that it's your right to dictate terms to me about how I will live in it and treat it.
You're not debating the issue either Ryan. You're monopolizing it as usual.
You've decided HOW women should be, you've decided that anyone that doesn't agree with your very pc and moderate views is clearly a rampant feminazi, so really what is the fucking point? You'll never have an abortion, you'll never be pregnant, so you'll never REALLY KNOW. And you can tell me that you think you know till the cows come home, you can tell me all about the very clever stuff you've read that you think makes you a superior expert on the subject but you don't know and unless there's some radical advances in science and biology you will never know. Now go find a debate that's more satisfying for you. Clearly you've taken over this one with your crap so there's no challenge here anymore. I think you'll never advance your cause with this kind of communication and I think you should shut up. Much like you think I have no right to my body and that it's your right to dictate terms to me about how I will live in it and treat it.
Jeanie, I'm putting matters of abortion on the table. The most important aspect of which is the functionality and development of the human embryo/fetus. That is what the abortion debate is about. Female bodies are involved, yes, but it's not the end-all of the debate. It's only half of the debate. My points are stated quite clearly for you to address.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
well what? of course you can't kill something that's not alive. and again i reiterate... i never denied an embryo was alive. i've never denied it is human. so i guess you asking.... what? exactly.
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Some women might say "Circumcision is a male topic" but this ignores the fact that women have every capacity of knowledge to have an opinion on circumcision. It's not a matter of preference, it's a matter of biological facts. Facts are things everyone can know regardless of their race, creed or gender.
Abortion is likewise, a debate about facts, not preferences.
I disagree somewhat on this issue. I do think it is more of a male topic. I might have some knowledge about circumcision, but would not make that decision as you're right in that it is biological and since I do not have that bit of equipment I would defer to a man who does. Same thing goes with a vasectomy or any procedure that applies to a male only item. I just feel it is best left up to someone who can relate on a more personal level. Some of these issues are about more than "just facts". Just my opinion.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
The real issue is men trying to own women? Give me a break! Are you that dense? I understand you've grown up in a feminist society that trashes the male gender any chance it gets, but come on. This is ridiculous! It's not about you, it's about the child. It is your life, but it's not just your life, it's also the life of a potentially viable human being, that is the point. I personally don't think any guy gives a shit what you do with your body, that's not the issue. Wake up!
excuse me ryan? i have not 'grown up' in a feminist society. i do not conbsdier mtyself a feminist. but you know what the more i read and am exposed to male bullshit the closer i come to burning my bra.
i disagree. this issue is about a woman's right to determine the course of her own life. ah yes... a potentially viable human being, emphasis on the potentially part. this does not make something so. it merely states that an outcome is possible.
me wake up? don't me laugh ryan.
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I disagree somewhat on this issue. I do think it is more of a male topic. I might have some knowledge about circumcision, but would not make that decision as you're right in that it is biological and since I do not have that bit of equipment I would defer to a man who does. Same thing goes with a vasectomy or any procedure that applies to a male only item. I just feel it is best left up to someone who can relate on a more personal level. Some of these issues are about more than "just facts". Just my opinion.
What more is there to it?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Jeanie, I'm putting matters of abortion on the table. The most important aspect of which is the functionality and development of the human embryo/fetus. That is what the abortion debate is about. Female bodies are involved, yes, but it's not the end-all of the debate. It's only half of the debate. My points are stated quite clearly for you to address.
If you think a cluster of cells that has the potential to be a human being is THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of the abortion debate then I feel sorry for you. It's not FEMALE BODIES involved and only half the debate, it's WOMEN who are pregnant and not wanting to be incubators for said cell cluster that cannot support itself. And I'm not going to addressing it any further with you. Get back to me when you are pregnant and considering an abortion then we'll have something to discuss.
excuse me ryan? i have not 'grown up' in a feminist society. i do not conbsdier mtyself a feminist. but you know what the more i read and am exposed to male bullshit the closer i come to burning my bra.
i disagree. this issue is about a woman's right to determine the course of her own life. ah yes... a potentially viable human being, emphasis on the potentially part. this does not make something so. it merely states that an outcome is possible.
me wake up? don't me laugh ryan.
For some reason, I picture a downtrodden and irate, possibly mentally ill woman ramming a coat hanger up her uterus to descimate a healthy child, all the while hysterically repeating the phrase "It's my body I'll do what I want."
Certainly, your and Jeanie's attitudes towards this topic don't support the existing paradigm that women are loving and caring towards their offspring by nature. Rather, the claim appears to be a self-serving motivation for women to win more child-custody battles when they do in-fact want the children.
Personally, I'd rather you not mother a child. Unwanted children raised by parents like yourself tend to have academic and social difficulties later on, they are more likely to be abused and neglected and to abuse and neglect their own children.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Why waste your time? You are just like most people who "debate" this issue. You aren't open to debate, you have your mind set on this paradigm "It's my body I'll do what I want." and you won't defend that position against the fact that a human fetus is not your body. You simply lash out, like Catefrances with some irrational and emotionally charged rubbish.
please explain to me how this issue isn't emotional ryan? have you ever been in the position of having to decide whether or not to terminate a pregnancy? do you think women sit there and think god damn it im pregnant, phew. fantastic. time for an abortion. i'll just rip that little sucker out of there and all will be sweet? is that what you think ryan? cause i can assure you tis not the case.
a foetus is totally dependent upon its mother for its survival. without her, before its viability is established it would die, so therefore, it is a part of a woman.
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If you think a cluster of cells that has the potential to be a human being is THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of the abortion debate then I feel sorry for you. It's not FEMALE BODIES involved and only half the debate, it's WOMEN who are pregnant and not wanting to be incubators for said cell cluster that cannot support itself. And I'm not going to addressing it any further with you. Get back to me when you are pregnant and considering an abortion then we'll have something to discuss.
Do you even know what the age of viability is and what it means? You are also a cluster of cells, should I be allowed to end your life if you are sitting on my couch?
This is why scholars on the issue shake their heads at the troves of ignorant citizens who try to have a valid opinion on the debate.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
well what? of course you can't kill something that's not alive. and again i reiterate... i never denied an embryo was alive. i've never denied it is human. so i guess you asking.... what? exactly.
please explain to me how this issue isn't emotional ryan? have you ever been in the position of having to decide whether or not to terminate a pregnancy? do you think women sit there and think god damn it im pregnant, phew. fantastic. time for an abortion. i'll just rip that little sucker out of there and all will be sweet? is that what you think ryan? cause i can assure you tis not the case.
a foetus is totally dependent upon its mother for its survival. without her, before its viability is established it would die, so therefore, it is a part of a woman.
Exactly, before it's viable. That is the debate, the debate is on what a mother's rights to abortion should be, based on the development of the fetus. Legally, in most western countries, this is the age of viability. Once the child is viable, and there is no threat to the mother's life, then abortion is no longer an option. Are you going to refute that with some kind of emotional perspective or "woman" perspective? Because none of that is required to come to the same conclusion that myself and others have come to, and how the law actually is most places. Once you can get over yourself and stop using stupid situational arguments to discredit other's viewpoints, we can hopefully come to a democratic and objective agreement and put an end to this stupid debate over abortion.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
For some reason, I picture a downtrodden and irate, possibly mentally ill woman ramming a coat hanger up her uterus to descimate a healthy child, all the while hysterically repeating the phrase "It's my body I'll do what I want."
Certainly, your and Jeanie's attitudes towards this topic don't support the existing paradigm that women are loving and caring towards their offspring by nature. Rather, the claim appears to be a self-serving motivation for women to win more child-custody battles when they do in-fact want the children.
Personally, I'd rather you not mother a child. Unwanted children raised by parents like yourself tend to have academic and social difficulties later on, they are more likely to be abused and neglected and to abuse and neglect their own children.
so now you disparaging my parenting skills and questioning my love for my children?
i have four children. whilst only one of them was actually planned, all four of them are deeply loved, nurtured and defended by me.
if my children's father came to me tomorrow and asked for primary custody , i would aahve no qualms about handing responsibility of them to him. i would not question it nor would i start some humiliating brou-ha-ha simply because i am female.
you know ryan for some reason i am not surprised you had that image in your head. for the first time i feel disappointed by your discourse. and deeply offended.
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The emotional side of it. Hell, I worked with a guy who wouldn't neuter his dog even though he knew he should because he said he couldn't do it to himself. It's not logical, but still a part of the human psychology.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
The emotional side of it. Hell, I worked with a guy who wouldn't neuter his dog even though he knew he should because he said he couldn't do it to himself. It's not logical, but still a part of the human psychology.
Yea, but that's just a result of mirror neurons and the human capacity for empathy. Which should indicate that even though one has never been a parent or a woman, one can use their capacity for empathy and understand it.
Still, I would neuter myself it was required. There is emotional discontinuity amongst people in the abortion debate, it can't be submitted as consitent evidence for anything.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Do you even know what the age of viability is and what it means? You are also a cluster of cells, should I be allowed to end your life if you are sitting on my couch?
This is why scholars on the issue shake their heads at the troves of ignorant citizens who try to have a valid opinion on the debate.
Yup, as I suspected. I don't agree with your pov and I have no problem with my level of education on the issue but you are going to attempt to belittle me and assert your male dominant superiority. Seriously this conversation with you is about as useful as that time you decided to take over the Rape thread with all your talk about the poor perpertrator.
Plenty of people have wanted to and attempted to end my life, including myself what's the relevence? A scholar that has had an abortion or has been in the situation and chosen not to have an abortion, yeah, that's who I'd be willing to listen to, otherwise they've got no idea either. You can read and theorize and debate all you like but this changes nothing. You simply don't seem to be able to understand the concept of an individuals right to choose for themselves. AND before you jump up and down about the foetus having rights, the law has already decided in favor of the woman for valid reasons, so I don't know that there's much else we have to discuss on the matter.
so now you disparaging my parenting skills and questioning my love for my children?
i have four children. whilst only one of them was actually planned, all four of them are deeply loved, nurtured and defended by me.
if my children's father came to me tomorrow and asked for primary custody , i would aahve no qualms about handing responsibility of them to him. i would not question it nor would i start some humiliating brou-ha-ha simply because i am female.
you know ryan for some reason i am not surprised you had that image in your head. for the first time i feel disappointed by your discourse. and deeply offended.
I'm questioning your portrayal of the "female" in this debate. I know that not all females are pro-choice, and many are pro-life and many sit on the fence. So the arguments you are using are completely invalid.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yup, as I suspected. I don't agree with your pov and I have no problem with my level of education on the issue but you are going to attempt to belittle me and assert your male dominant superiority. Seriously this conversation with you is about as useful as that time you decided to take over the Rape thread with all your talk about the poor perpertrator.
Plenty of people have wanted to and attempted to end my life, including myself what's the relevence? A scholar that has had an abortion or has been in the situation and chosen not to have an abortion, yeah, that's who I'd be willing to listen to, otherwise they've got no idea either. You can read and theorize and debate all you like but this changes nothing. You simply don't seem to be able to understand the concept of an individuals right to choose for themselves. AND before you jump up and down about the foetus having rights, the law has already decided in favor of the woman for valid reasons, so I don't know that there's much else we have to discuss on the matter.
It hasn't decided in favor of women. You pompously ignorant and highly emotionally charged individual. Read the law in the United States. It's probably the same in Australia, as it is in Canada. You can not abort a fetus that has reached the age of viability. Do some research, learn something about the issue and keep your emotions toned down.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
For some reason, I picture a downtrodden and irate, possibly mentally ill woman ramming a coat hanger up her uterus to descimate a healthy child, all the while hysterically repeating the phrase "It's my body I'll do what I want."
Certainly, your and Jeanie's attitudes towards this topic don't support the existing paradigm that women are loving and caring towards their offspring by nature. Rather, the claim appears to be a self-serving motivation for women to win more child-custody battles when they do in-fact want the children.
Personally, I'd rather you not mother a child. Unwanted children raised by parents like yourself tend to have academic and social difficulties later on, they are more likely to be abused and neglected and to abuse and neglect their own children.
nice work Ryan. :rolleyes: how the fuck can you predict my ability to parent? Are you psychic? talk about sweeping generalizations and asshole comments.
take your misogynist bullshit and shove it fair up your backside. Personally I hope you never have kids either. Poor little buggers will probably end up in the nut house. How's that for an unreasonable and unwarranted prediction?
It hasn't decided in favor of women. You pompously ignorant and highly emotionally charged individual. Read the law in the United States. It's probably the same in Australia, as it is in Canada. You can not abort a fetus that has reached the age of viability. Do some research, learn something about the issue and keep your emotions toned down.
Abortion debates always seem to me a bit like.... girls with hairy armpits verses girls without hairy armpits.
What if a mentally retarded girl of 35 with the mind of a 2yr old gets raped and falls pregnent ? What then ? She cannot even comprehend the meaning of pregnancy let alone healthy parenting.
In the instance of an accidental pregnancy by 2 legally consenting adults.... How much say should the father have when the subject of abortion raises its wrinkly head ?
Theres good arguement for and against abortion. But I dont think it should be illegal to have an abortion.
And yes jeanie, the foetus can only be aborted by law if it is only so many weeks developed, I aint even going to bother looking up the time frame but its not long.
Exactly, before it's viable. That is the debate, the debate is on what a mother's rights to abortion should be, based on the development of the fetus. Legally, in most western countries, this is the age of viability. Once the child is viable, and there is no threat to the mother's life, then abortion is no longer an option. Are you going to refute that with some kind of emotional perspective or "woman" perspective? Because none of that is required to come to the same conclusion that myself and others have come to, and how the law actually is most places. Once you can get over yourself and stop using stupid situational arguments to discredit other's viewpoints, we can hopefully come to a democratic and objective agreement and put an end to this stupid debate over abortion.
once i get over myself. :rolleyes: i don't support 2nd or 3rd trimester abortion UNLESS the health of the woman is at risk.
stupid situational arguments? so actually having been in the position of having to make that decision is now stupid is it?
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Abortion debates always seem to me a bit like.... girls with hairy armpits verses girls without hairy armpits.
What if a mentally retarded girl of 35 with the mind of a 2yr old gets raped and falls pregnent ? What then ? She cannot even comprehend the meaning of pregnancy let alone healthy parenting.
In the instance of an accidental pregnancy by 2 legally consenting adults.... How much say should the father have when the subject of abortion raises its wrinkly head ?
Theres good arguement for and against abortion. But I dont think it should be illegal to have an abortion.
And yes jeanie, the foetus can only be aborted by law if it is only so many weeks developed, I aint even going to bother looking up the time frame but its not long.
There have been late term abortions performed by doctors here on women. The last poor woman that it happened to is still receiving psychiatric treatment because of that nut job McGauran and his blatant disregard for her wellbeing and her privacy.
And abortion still has not been decriminalized here in Victoria.
There are stipulations regarding the age of the foetus but late term abortions do still happen here in Victoria and doctors and women can still be prosecuted for providing or procuring an abortion.
There have been late term abortions performed by doctors here on women. The last poor woman that it happened to is still receiving psychiatric treatment because of that nut job McGauran and his blatant disregard for her wellbeing and her privacy.
And abortion still has not been decriminalized here in Victoria.
There are stipulations regarding the age of the foetus but late term abortions do still happen here in Victoria and doctors and women can still be prosecuted for providing or procuring an abortion.
i have to wonder why it would take so long for a woman to make the decision to procure an abortion.
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Comments
This is precisely the attitude that keeps abortion an issue.
Don't talk to me about attitude. I just read endless bloody pages of yours.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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The currents will shift
Why waste your time? You are just like most people who "debate" this issue. You aren't open to debate, you have your mind set on this paradigm "It's my body I'll do what I want." and you won't defend that position against the fact that a human fetus is not your body. You simply lash out, like Catefrances with some irrational and emotionally charged rubbish.
Pro-Life
The soul enters the fetus at the point of conception.
This is a typical pro-life argument and it's indefensible. There is no evidence of a soul, and the organism isn't even a "fetus" at the point of conception. These people tend to be negligent about the actual process of human physical development.
Pro-Choice
It's my body and I'll do what I want with it.
It's not your body. It's the body of another organism that was created within your body. It is connected to your body by an cord that provides it with nutrients. I suppose you could ingest something deadly and kill the child that way. But be warned, this is deteriorating the image of women as being all-loving caring individuals. This whole position of pro-choice is typically a matter of self-interest and very little concern for the fetus.
A stricly unbias approach
Once the fetus is viable, it's well into pregnancy and the decision to abort should have been made, save some unforseen complications. The fetus has a fully functional central nervous system, is arguably aware to some degree and can certainly sense pain. Barring some extenuating circumstances abortion of a viable fetus is absolutely a selfish act by the mother. Prior to the age of viability, I can't definitely say that the fetus is aware, it has only a partially functioning CNS and probably cannot sense pain to any meaningful degree. Since it's not a viable human being with sensory perceptions, the primary focus of concern should be on the mother's future, and that makes it a matter of personal choice.
You're not debating the issue either Ryan. You're monopolizing it as usual.
You've decided HOW women should be, you've decided that anyone that doesn't agree with your very pc and moderate views is clearly a rampant feminazi, so really what is the fucking point? You'll never have an abortion, you'll never be pregnant, so you'll never REALLY KNOW. And you can tell me that you think you know till the cows come home, you can tell me all about the very clever stuff you've read that you think makes you a superior expert on the subject but you don't know and unless there's some radical advances in science and biology you will never know. Now go find a debate that's more satisfying for you. Clearly you've taken over this one with your crap so there's no challenge here anymore. I think you'll never advance your cause with this kind of communication and I think you should shut up. Much like you think I have no right to my body and that it's your right to dictate terms to me about how I will live in it and treat it.
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Jeanie, I'm putting matters of abortion on the table. The most important aspect of which is the functionality and development of the human embryo/fetus. That is what the abortion debate is about. Female bodies are involved, yes, but it's not the end-all of the debate. It's only half of the debate. My points are stated quite clearly for you to address.
well what? of course you can't kill something that's not alive. and again i reiterate... i never denied an embryo was alive. i've never denied it is human. so i guess you asking.... what? exactly.
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excuse me ryan? i have not 'grown up' in a feminist society. i do not conbsdier mtyself a feminist. but you know what the more i read and am exposed to male bullshit the closer i come to burning my bra.
i disagree. this issue is about a woman's right to determine the course of her own life. ah yes... a potentially viable human being, emphasis on the potentially part. this does not make something so. it merely states that an outcome is possible.
me wake up? don't me laugh ryan.
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What more is there to it?
If you think a cluster of cells that has the potential to be a human being is THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of the abortion debate then I feel sorry for you. It's not FEMALE BODIES involved and only half the debate, it's WOMEN who are pregnant and not wanting to be incubators for said cell cluster that cannot support itself. And I'm not going to addressing it any further with you. Get back to me when you are pregnant and considering an abortion then we'll have something to discuss.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
For some reason, I picture a downtrodden and irate, possibly mentally ill woman ramming a coat hanger up her uterus to descimate a healthy child, all the while hysterically repeating the phrase "It's my body I'll do what I want."
Certainly, your and Jeanie's attitudes towards this topic don't support the existing paradigm that women are loving and caring towards their offspring by nature. Rather, the claim appears to be a self-serving motivation for women to win more child-custody battles when they do in-fact want the children.
Personally, I'd rather you not mother a child. Unwanted children raised by parents like yourself tend to have academic and social difficulties later on, they are more likely to be abused and neglected and to abuse and neglect their own children.
please explain to me how this issue isn't emotional ryan? have you ever been in the position of having to decide whether or not to terminate a pregnancy? do you think women sit there and think god damn it im pregnant, phew. fantastic. time for an abortion. i'll just rip that little sucker out of there and all will be sweet? is that what you think ryan? cause i can assure you tis not the case.
a foetus is totally dependent upon its mother for its survival. without her, before its viability is established it would die, so therefore, it is a part of a woman.
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Do you even know what the age of viability is and what it means? You are also a cluster of cells, should I be allowed to end your life if you are sitting on my couch?
This is why scholars on the issue shake their heads at the troves of ignorant citizens who try to have a valid opinion on the debate.
is it a baby or not? human or not?
Exactly, before it's viable. That is the debate, the debate is on what a mother's rights to abortion should be, based on the development of the fetus. Legally, in most western countries, this is the age of viability. Once the child is viable, and there is no threat to the mother's life, then abortion is no longer an option. Are you going to refute that with some kind of emotional perspective or "woman" perspective? Because none of that is required to come to the same conclusion that myself and others have come to, and how the law actually is most places. Once you can get over yourself and stop using stupid situational arguments to discredit other's viewpoints, we can hopefully come to a democratic and objective agreement and put an end to this stupid debate over abortion.
so now you disparaging my parenting skills and questioning my love for my children?
i have four children. whilst only one of them was actually planned, all four of them are deeply loved, nurtured and defended by me.
if my children's father came to me tomorrow and asked for primary custody , i would aahve no qualms about handing responsibility of them to him. i would not question it nor would i start some humiliating brou-ha-ha simply because i am female.
you know ryan for some reason i am not surprised you had that image in your head. for the first time i feel disappointed by your discourse. and deeply offended.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
can you not read what i have written?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yea, but that's just a result of mirror neurons and the human capacity for empathy. Which should indicate that even though one has never been a parent or a woman, one can use their capacity for empathy and understand it.
Still, I would neuter myself it was required. There is emotional discontinuity amongst people in the abortion debate, it can't be submitted as consitent evidence for anything.
yr right, sorry.
you said you never denied it's not human.
so how can you say you aren't killing a baby when you have an abortion?
Yup, as I suspected. I don't agree with your pov and I have no problem with my level of education on the issue but you are going to attempt to belittle me and assert your male dominant superiority. Seriously this conversation with you is about as useful as that time you decided to take over the Rape thread with all your talk about the poor perpertrator.
Plenty of people have wanted to and attempted to end my life, including myself what's the relevence? A scholar that has had an abortion or has been in the situation and chosen not to have an abortion, yeah, that's who I'd be willing to listen to, otherwise they've got no idea either. You can read and theorize and debate all you like but this changes nothing. You simply don't seem to be able to understand the concept of an individuals right to choose for themselves. AND before you jump up and down about the foetus having rights, the law has already decided in favor of the woman for valid reasons, so I don't know that there's much else we have to discuss on the matter.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm questioning your portrayal of the "female" in this debate. I know that not all females are pro-choice, and many are pro-life and many sit on the fence. So the arguments you are using are completely invalid.
It hasn't decided in favor of women. You pompously ignorant and highly emotionally charged individual. Read the law in the United States. It's probably the same in Australia, as it is in Canada. You can not abort a fetus that has reached the age of viability. Do some research, learn something about the issue and keep your emotions toned down.
nice work Ryan. :rolleyes: how the fuck can you predict my ability to parent? Are you psychic? talk about sweeping generalizations and asshole comments.
take your misogynist bullshit and shove it fair up your backside. Personally I hope you never have kids either. Poor little buggers will probably end up in the nut house. How's that for an unreasonable and unwarranted prediction?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Oh bite me!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
What if a mentally retarded girl of 35 with the mind of a 2yr old gets raped and falls pregnent ? What then ? She cannot even comprehend the meaning of pregnancy let alone healthy parenting.
In the instance of an accidental pregnancy by 2 legally consenting adults.... How much say should the father have when the subject of abortion raises its wrinkly head ?
Theres good arguement for and against abortion. But I dont think it should be illegal to have an abortion.
And yes jeanie, the foetus can only be aborted by law if it is only so many weeks developed, I aint even going to bother looking up the time frame but its not long.
once i get over myself. :rolleyes: i don't support 2nd or 3rd trimester abortion UNLESS the health of the woman is at risk.
stupid situational arguments? so actually having been in the position of having to make that decision is now stupid is it?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
There have been late term abortions performed by doctors here on women. The last poor woman that it happened to is still receiving psychiatric treatment because of that nut job McGauran and his blatant disregard for her wellbeing and her privacy.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/row-grows-in-lateterm-abortion-case/2005/07/01/1119724809174.html
And abortion still has not been decriminalized here in Victoria.
There are stipulations regarding the age of the foetus but late term abortions do still happen here in Victoria and doctors and women can still be prosecuted for providing or procuring an abortion.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i have to wonder why it would take so long for a woman to make the decision to procure an abortion.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say