Playing Devil's Advocate is not proof or fact, byt it's very definition:)
i know. but there are people who hold up the Earth and humans as proof of God's existence and the validity of the Bible. that's what i meant. i know it doesn't make it fact. but they see it as such.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Hmmmm.....well let me see? It wouldn't be reasonable for me to make all the decisions. I'd have to confer with the other girls and see what they think.
I mean my views are fairly radical when it comes to men, I think we should completely reverse patriachal society and exactly replicate it to a matriachal society but that ain't gonna be happening any time soon! Can I have some think music?................;) Now that you ask my brain has gone numb!
Hmmmm.....well let me see? It wouldn't be reasonable for me to make all the decisions. I'd have to confer with the other girls and see what they think.
I mean my views are fairly radical when it comes to men, I think we should completely reverse patriachal society and exactly replicate it to a matriachal society but that ain't gonna be happening any time soon! Can I have some think music?................;) Now that you ask my brain has gone numb!
It's really money that tries to control men and women. Money is indiscriminate. The people making beauty products and creating this demoralizing ads, may very well be men or women out to make a buck.
You watch these ads for exercise equipment or diet programs. They repeatedly and consistently say "it will make you slimmer and sexier". But you never hear them say "it will make you healthier". It's geared at exploiting a flaw in westernized people. The flaw being our need to look like supermodels. Our concern should be on being healthy, not sexy.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It's really money that tries to control men and women. Money is indiscriminate. The people making beauty products and creating this demoralizing ads, may very well be men or women out to make a buck.
You watch these ads for exercise equipment or diet programs. They repeatedly and consistently say "it will make you slimmer and sexier". But you never hear them say "it will make you healthier". It's geared at exploiting a flaw in westernized people. The flaw being our need to look like supermodels. Our concern should be on being healthy, not sexy.
Heya! Welcome back! I'd love to have this convo with you but have to go to another family thing now. I will just say I agree with you about the marketing bullshit totally. But MONEY doesn't control anybody. It's an inanimate object. THE PEOPLE WITH THE MONEY are the ones who have the power and they use it to control. AND statistically most of those people are MEN. Unfortunately there are too many men in this world for whom POWER AND MONEY AND CONTROL ARE THEIR APHRODISIAC. Now, hate to cut & run but gotta fly.......can we play this game later?:)
Heya! Welcome back! I'd love to have this convo with you but have to go to another family thing now. I will just say I agree with you about the marketing bullshit totally. But MONEY doesn't control anybody. It's an inanimate object. THE PEOPLE WITH THE MONEY are the ones who have the power and they use it to control. AND statistically most of those people are MEN. Unfortunately there are too many men in this world for whom POWER AND MONEY AND CONTROL ARE THEIR APHRODISIAC. Now, hate to cut & run but gotta fly.......can we play this game later?:)
Statistics don't describe the innate qualities of men or women.
Based on the understanding that people do not act without motivation. "Those who control", we can say, are motivated by money and therefor money does control them. Money provides them with the motivation to act as they do. Without it, there would be no reason for their actions.
All they are doing is exploiting human traits. It's the basics of marketting and manipulation. The methods they us, can be attributed to the "control" of the buyer. If the exploits evoked by the seller is a control for the buyer, then the money is reasonably the control of the seller.
What of sellers that are also buyers? A person selling cosmetics, may also be a buyer of those same cosmetics. They've convinced themselves of the same exploits they use for marketting. Probably how they came up with the ideas in the first place.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Based on the understanding that people do not act without motivation. "Those who control", we can say, are motivated by money and therefor money does control them. Money provides them with the motivation to act as they do. Without it, there would be no reason for their actions.
I don't think people are motivated by MONEY first, I think they are motivated by POWER & CONTROL. MONEY then is just the "tool" they accumulate to enable them to wield POWER or CONTROL over others. Religion is another "tool" used to exert POWER & CONTROL.
And not to ignore the last part of your post....but.....I really have to pull my finger out & get a move on so will have to revisit that bit later.
LOL! Can't believe you just said that, given your opinions in some of the other threads but maybe I misread them.;)
I'm pretty sure in the other threads I was using statistics to disprove some abilities as innate. Genetics determine a lot, but relatively, very little. Some research using twin studies can provide a better understanding, and I suppose in those control cases of "statistics" if you call it that, statistics can help. But performing an uncontrolled statistical study, means basically nothing.
I don't think people are motivated by MONEY first, I think they are motivated by POWER & CONTROL. MONEY then is just the "tool" they accumulate to enable them to wield POWER or CONTROL over others. Religion is another "tool" used to exert POWER & CONTROL.
And not to ignore the last part of your post....but.....I really have to pull my finger out & get a move on so will have to revisit that bit later.
Yea, ok, but POWER & CONTROL are the exploitable human traits shared by both the buyer and the seller. The seller sells for the POWER & CONTROL associated with MONEY. The buyer buys for the POWER & CONTROL associated with SLIM & SEXY. They have more in common than they think. I would call that a perfectly fare business transaction.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It's really money that tries to control men and women. Money is indiscriminate. The people making beauty products and creating this demoralizing ads, may very well be men or women out to make a buck.
You watch these ads for exercise equipment or diet programs. They repeatedly and consistently say "it will make you slimmer and sexier". But you never hear them say "it will make you healthier". It's geared at exploiting a flaw in westernized people. The flaw being our need to look like supermodels. Our concern should be on being healthy, not sexy.
may well? what else is their motivation if not money?
money = power. we all know that. the poor are nothing. they are invisible in our class structured society. we ignore them because they are a reminder of what we can become. and what we are. in such wealthy societies as our own, there is no excuse for poverty or homelessness and yet both exist.
we glamourise the skinny, the rich and the mindless. free thinking and intelligence are seen as liabilities and something not to be emulated or even strived for. we'll tell you what you need to know. we'll tell you how to think and what to watch. we'll tell you how to dress and what to eat. we'll tell you you are not good enough the way you are. we'll tell you your house is too small . that you're driving the wrong car. that you are just not thin enough or pretty enough or desirable enough. we'll tell you that spending money will fill that void. we'll tell you it all cause we don't want you wasting your time thinking. besides thinking gives you wrinkles.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
may well? what else is their motivation if not money?
money = power. we all know that. the poor are nothing. they are invisible in our class structured society. we ignore them because they are a reminder of what we can become. and what we are. in such wealthy societies as our own, there is no excuse for poverty or homelessness and yet both exist.
we glamourise the skinny, the rich and the mindless. free thinking and intelligence are seen as liabilities and something not to be emulated or even strived for. we'll tell you what you need to know. we'll tell you how to think and what to watch. we'll tell you how to dress and what to eat. we'll tell you you are not good enough the way you are. we'll tell you your house is too small . that you're driving the wrong car. that you are just not thin enough or pretty enough or desirable enough. we'll tell you that spending money will fill that void. we'll tell you it all cause we don't want you wasting your time thinking. besides thinking gives you wrinkles.
Well, first of all. Money isn't the root motivation. Ego is the root motivation. Ego drives us to be models of our social interactions. Ego wants us to better than everyone else. Money is part of that. If you want power over others, you need money or a sharp tongue. It's much easier to get what you want if you got money. Ego wants us all to be rich, with plenty of sexy mates and sexy fast cars. Ego wants us to be the toughest kid on the block with the most friends.
Let us say that I don't want that life. I'm going to snub that life. Instead, I'm going to become educated and resourceful, I'm going to try to influence people in a way I feel is better. Maybe I'll pick up garbage, or volunteer somewhere. Am I doing that because it helps people, or because it makes me feel good? Because now I have a different way of feeding my ego. I've tricked it into thinking this alternate life is better. Now I get a big ego and start telling others they are wrong. Trying to manipulate them into my thinking. Trying to trump them with knowledge, wear them down in a debate.
That's just it, it's almost like it's unavoidable. It's what keeps nature alive. Freud may have been incorrect several times, but he was right about a few things.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
no. their way of life is wrong for me. that is the only judgement i can make. my ego tells me to be the best i can be within myself. and to be content with that. i don't want to be rich. i don't want sexy mates. i want someone who is attractive to me. and attracted to me. and i already don't own a car through preference. i don't do anything for appearance sake. if i do something, it is because i want to do it, not to 'impress' someone else. i do it because i feel it needs to be done.
wear them down in a debate. hmm ahnimus i reckon you'd know a bit about that.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
no. their way of life is wrong for me. that is the only judgement i can make. my ego tells me to be the best i can be within myself. and to be content with that. i don't want to be rich. i don't want sexy mates. i want someone who is attractive to me. and attracted to me. and i already don't own a car through preference. i don't do anything for appearance sake. if i do something, it is because i want to do it, not to 'impress' someone else. i do it because i feel it needs to be done.
wear them down in a debate. hmm ahnimus i reckon you'd know a bit about that.
Everyone has an Ego, without it, I feel we would just keel over and die. It's what makes us feel good, psychologically speaking.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
no. their way of life is wrong for me. that is the only judgement i can make. my ego tells me to be the best i can be within myself. and to be content with that. i don't want to be rich. i don't want sexy mates. i want someone who is attractive to me. and attracted to me. and i already don't own a car through preference. i don't do anything for appearance sake. if i do something, it is because i want to do it, not to 'impress' someone else. i do it because i feel it needs to be done.
I like this one, and your post prior to this.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Well, first of all. Money isn't the root motivation. Ego is the root motivation. Ego drives us to be models of our social interactions. Ego wants us to better than everyone else. ... Ego wants us all to be rich, with plenty of sexy mates and sexy fast cars. Ego wants us to be the toughest kid on the block with the most friends.
It looks like you are referring to the dark side of the ego. Whereas catefrances seems to be talking to the fact that the ego can also be equated with constructively directing our energy. The ego can in fact be neutral, depending on whether it can manage our darker "shadow" parts or not.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It looks like you are referring to the dark side of the ego. Whereas catefrances seems to be talking to the fact that the ego can also be equated with constructively directing our energy. The ego can in fact be neutral, depending on whether it can manage our darker "shadow" parts or not.
The ego by definition is self-servant. It's only there for it's self. I don't see how it can be neutral. But you distort the meaning of everything.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't think people are motivated by MONEY first, I think they are motivated by POWER & CONTROL. MONEY then is just the "tool" they accumulate to enable them to wield POWER or CONTROL over others. Religion is another "tool" used to exert POWER & CONTROL.
We think alike.
I think the negative and antiquated connotation of "Power and Control" should be modified/updated, though.
Maybe, "Affluence and Influence."
Or, something like that.
The ego by definition is self-servant. It's only there for it's self. I don't see how it can be neutral. But you distort the meaning of everything.
The ego is the part of us that engages in life. Compared to the parts that are beneath the surface.
"Within the next three years, as the child interacts more and more with the world, the second part of the personality begins to develop. Freud called this part the Ego. The ego is based on the reality principle. The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. Its the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation."http://allpsych.com/psychology101/ego.html
"Ego
In Psychoanalytical theory, the part of the personality which maintains a balance between our impulses (id) and our conscience (superego)." http://allpsych.com/dictionary/e.html
An unbalanced ego is outside of the general neutral purpose of the ego which outlets what is below the surface in a balanced way.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
The ego is the part of us that engages in life. Compared to the parts that are beneath the surface.
"Within the next three years, as the child interacts more and more with the world, the second part of the personality begins to develop. Freud called this part the Ego. The ego is based on the reality principle. The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. Its the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation."http://allpsych.com/psychology101/ego.html
"Ego
In Psychoanalytical theory, the part of the personality which maintains a balance between our impulses (id) and our conscience (superego)." http://allpsych.com/dictionary/e.html
An unbalanced ego is outside of the general neutral purpose of the ego which outlets what is below the surface in a balanced way.
Thank you for supporting what I said.
The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run.
Again, just looking out for it's self. I know you've read a lot of this stuff before. I'd encourage reading it all again, this time without your personal prejudice.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Though Freud "identified" the ego and the id and all that, um, stuff, wouldn't it be fair to stay it was an endevour in creative thinking/theory? Really...I mean, I can invent all sorts of things in my brain to measure myself by, or reflect an idea upon. For instance, at this moment, in my brain, I am in a canoe, paddling along a stream in a glacial cavern. Hey, there's Ahnimus! There's Angelica!
Now, really, is it up to my ego to decide how good i feel about myself in this particular canoe, or is it just me?
Ego wants us to better than everyone else. ... Ego wants us all to be rich, with plenty of sexy mates and sexy fast cars. Ego wants us to be the toughest kid on the block with the most friends.
"The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. Its the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation" ... "Ego--In Psychoanalytical theory, the part of the personality which maintains a balance between our impulses (id) and our conscience (superego)."
....
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
i know. but there are people who hold up the Earth and humans as proof of God's existence and the validity of the Bible. that's what i meant. i know it doesn't make it fact. but they see it as such.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Hmmm......have you got the right credentials?;)
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Sounds promising................can you convince the others?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
to be honest it's only right that you worship women.
you also have to be able to put the toilet seat down ...if only sometimes.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
We should make that one of the "10 Directives"
Thou shalt always lower the toilet seat.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Hmmmm.....well let me see? It wouldn't be reasonable for me to make all the decisions. I'd have to confer with the other girls and see what they think.
I mean my views are fairly radical when it comes to men, I think we should completely reverse patriachal society and exactly replicate it to a matriachal society but that ain't gonna be happening any time soon!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
YUP!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm still waiting for some other Christians to say this is utter bullshit.
naděje umírá poslední
It's really money that tries to control men and women. Money is indiscriminate. The people making beauty products and creating this demoralizing ads, may very well be men or women out to make a buck.
You watch these ads for exercise equipment or diet programs. They repeatedly and consistently say "it will make you slimmer and sexier". But you never hear them say "it will make you healthier". It's geared at exploiting a flaw in westernized people. The flaw being our need to look like supermodels. Our concern should be on being healthy, not sexy.
Heya! Welcome back! I'd love to have this convo with you but have to go to another family thing now. I will just say I agree with you about the marketing bullshit totally. But MONEY doesn't control anybody. It's an inanimate object. THE PEOPLE WITH THE MONEY are the ones who have the power and they use it to control. AND statistically most of those people are MEN. Unfortunately there are too many men in this world for whom POWER AND MONEY AND CONTROL ARE THEIR APHRODISIAC. Now, hate to cut & run but gotta fly.......can we play this game later?:)
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Statistics don't describe the innate qualities of men or women.
Based on the understanding that people do not act without motivation. "Those who control", we can say, are motivated by money and therefor money does control them. Money provides them with the motivation to act as they do. Without it, there would be no reason for their actions.
All they are doing is exploiting human traits. It's the basics of marketting and manipulation. The methods they us, can be attributed to the "control" of the buyer. If the exploits evoked by the seller is a control for the buyer, then the money is reasonably the control of the seller.
What of sellers that are also buyers? A person selling cosmetics, may also be a buyer of those same cosmetics. They've convinced themselves of the same exploits they use for marketting. Probably how they came up with the ideas in the first place.
I don't think people are motivated by MONEY first, I think they are motivated by POWER & CONTROL. MONEY then is just the "tool" they accumulate to enable them to wield POWER or CONTROL over others. Religion is another "tool" used to exert POWER & CONTROL.
And not to ignore the last part of your post....but.....I really have to pull my finger out & get a move on so will have to revisit that bit later.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm pretty sure in the other threads I was using statistics to disprove some abilities as innate. Genetics determine a lot, but relatively, very little. Some research using twin studies can provide a better understanding, and I suppose in those control cases of "statistics" if you call it that, statistics can help. But performing an uncontrolled statistical study, means basically nothing.
Yea, ok, but POWER & CONTROL are the exploitable human traits shared by both the buyer and the seller. The seller sells for the POWER & CONTROL associated with MONEY. The buyer buys for the POWER & CONTROL associated with SLIM & SEXY. They have more in common than they think. I would call that a perfectly fare business transaction.
may well? what else is their motivation if not money?
money = power. we all know that. the poor are nothing. they are invisible in our class structured society. we ignore them because they are a reminder of what we can become. and what we are. in such wealthy societies as our own, there is no excuse for poverty or homelessness and yet both exist.
we glamourise the skinny, the rich and the mindless. free thinking and intelligence are seen as liabilities and something not to be emulated or even strived for. we'll tell you what you need to know. we'll tell you how to think and what to watch. we'll tell you how to dress and what to eat. we'll tell you you are not good enough the way you are. we'll tell you your house is too small . that you're driving the wrong car. that you are just not thin enough or pretty enough or desirable enough. we'll tell you that spending money will fill that void. we'll tell you it all cause we don't want you wasting your time thinking. besides thinking gives you wrinkles.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Well, first of all. Money isn't the root motivation. Ego is the root motivation. Ego drives us to be models of our social interactions. Ego wants us to better than everyone else. Money is part of that. If you want power over others, you need money or a sharp tongue. It's much easier to get what you want if you got money. Ego wants us all to be rich, with plenty of sexy mates and sexy fast cars. Ego wants us to be the toughest kid on the block with the most friends.
Let us say that I don't want that life. I'm going to snub that life. Instead, I'm going to become educated and resourceful, I'm going to try to influence people in a way I feel is better. Maybe I'll pick up garbage, or volunteer somewhere. Am I doing that because it helps people, or because it makes me feel good? Because now I have a different way of feeding my ego. I've tricked it into thinking this alternate life is better. Now I get a big ego and start telling others they are wrong. Trying to manipulate them into my thinking. Trying to trump them with knowledge, wear them down in a debate.
That's just it, it's almost like it's unavoidable. It's what keeps nature alive. Freud may have been incorrect several times, but he was right about a few things.
wear them down in a debate. hmm ahnimus i reckon you'd know a bit about that.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Everyone has an Ego, without it, I feel we would just keel over and die. It's what makes us feel good, psychologically speaking.
of course we do, i don't think that was in debate.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The ego by definition is self-servant. It's only there for it's self. I don't see how it can be neutral. But you distort the meaning of everything.
We think alike.
I think the negative and antiquated connotation of "Power and Control" should be modified/updated, though.
Maybe, "Affluence and Influence."
Or, something like that.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
"Within the next three years, as the child interacts more and more with the world, the second part of the personality begins to develop. Freud called this part the Ego. The ego is based on the reality principle. The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. Its the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation." http://allpsych.com/psychology101/ego.html
"Ego
In Psychoanalytical theory, the part of the personality which maintains a balance between our impulses (id) and our conscience (superego)."
http://allpsych.com/dictionary/e.html
An unbalanced ego is outside of the general neutral purpose of the ego which outlets what is below the surface in a balanced way.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Thank you for supporting what I said.
The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run.
Again, just looking out for it's self. I know you've read a lot of this stuff before. I'd encourage reading it all again, this time without your personal prejudice.
Now, really, is it up to my ego to decide how good i feel about myself in this particular canoe, or is it just me?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!