Dutch elections...hopefull???

disconnected

Kushikushun wrote:

....and Ravenna, you keep throwing new stuff up while not responding to our replies to your earlier quotes. I now fully understand why you would vote Pim Fortuyn as his campaign was much in the same manner: thowing out popular slogans, but never having a real answer to serious problems...!

I would like to ask everybody to stay on topic in this thread or open a new thread on the politics in the Netherlands compared to the USA :mad:

I would like to, but I takes some time translating things......

Kushikushun

disconnected wrote:

I would like to, but I takes some time translating things......

Huh...?
but ehh I was especially reffering to Ravenna. I understand why you reply to him/her as I have done as well. Just dont feel like comparing USA with Netherlands...

parel jam

Balkie wil ws niet...

Balkenende maakt links fors verwijt

Uitgegeven: 2 december 2006 11:57
Laatst gewijzigd: 2 december 2006 12:35
DEN HAAG - CDA-fractievoorzitter Balkenende heeft zich zaterdag na zijn gesprek met informateur Rein Jan Hoekstra niet uitgesproken voor samenwerking met SP en PvdA. Wel maakte hij deze partijen het verwijt, dat ze via de Tweede Kamer een generaal pardon en een stop op het uitzetten van asielzoekers proberen af te dwingen. [bron: www.nu.nl]

disconnected

Kushikushun wrote:

Huh...?
but ehh I was especially reffering to Ravenna. I understand why you reply to him/her as I have done as well. Just dont feel like comparing USA with Netherlands...

Oh, Okay

Kushikushun

parel jam wrote:

Balkie wil ws niet...

Balkenende maakt links fors verwijt

Uitgegeven: 2 december 2006 11:57
Laatst gewijzigd: 2 december 2006 12:35
DEN HAAG - CDA-fractievoorzitter Balkenende heeft zich zaterdag na zijn gesprek met informateur Rein Jan Hoekstra niet uitgesproken voor samenwerking met SP en PvdA. Wel maakte hij deze partijen het verwijt, dat ze via de Tweede Kamer een generaal pardon en een stop op het uitzetten van asielzoekers proberen af te dwingen. [bron: www.nu.nl]

Hm, I too believe that it is a bit too soon to debate on such an important subject before a new kabinet has been formed..on the other hand I would be very pleased if they get this Generaal Pardon going. All those people who have been waiting for ages to get a 'green card' and have found jobs, schools, friends in the meantime and did their duties as paying taxes and such should be able to stay after such a long time. Remember that Turkish family that had lived here for ages, had a nice shop somewhere, worked their butts off, always paid taxes, and than were put on a plane after about ten years...outrageous!
This was the one thing I agreed on with Pim Fortuyn...dont make these people pay for our stupid governmental mistakes...

But well if this might create an even wider gap between the parties of CDA, PVDA en SP then I rather have they wait and create a center-left government first!!!

karma defect

parel jam wrote:

I think it will be PvdA and SP at one side, and CDA, CU and maybe others at the other side when trying to make a government.

I'm really afraid it will be another 4 years of CDA, VVD, and more right-wing parties...

I'm not that affraid to be honest. They would need C.U. to do it and if they would do it it would be suicide. They know that it is, besides I don't see him working together with Wilders.

karma defect

parel jam wrote:

Dus...

Het ziet erna uit dat we een coalitie krijgen van CDA, PvdA en SP...wel het meest voor de hand liggend...

I't looks like it, eventhough both Bos and Balkenende are aguing.

karma defect

Kushikushun wrote:

Hm, I too believe that it is a bit too soon to debate on such an important subject before a new kabinet has been formed..on the other hand I would be very pleased if they get this Generaal Pardon going. All those people who have been waiting for ages to get a 'green card' and have found jobs, schools, friends in the meantime and did their duties as paying taxes and such should be able to stay after such a long time. Remember that Turkish family that had lived here for ages, had a nice shop somewhere, worked their butts off, always paid taxes, and than were put on a plane after about ten years...outrageous!
This was the one thing I agreed on with Pim Fortuyn...dont make these people pay for our stupid governmental mistakes...

But well if this might create an even wider gap between the parties of CDA, PVDA en SP then I rather have they wait and create a center-left government first!!!

I think it is immoral if the pardon doesn't happen. It isn't their fault they had to wait that long. It was our shitty rules that made it so. Now that the rules are made clearer and the process is shorter it is better, but we can't let these people suffer because of our mistakes. Childeren that don't speak any other language than Dutch can't be made to go elsewhere.

Verdonk makes me sick. Now she's saying we can't have the pardon because a large part of the 26000 have already gone. Fuck that and fuck her. She has no heart.

RavennaSeattle1911

the left wing wont do much for holland

what does the right want there?here the right there would be our left i bet

parel jam

http://www.programvergelijking.nl/programvergelijkingen/tweede_kamer_2006/tweede_kamerverkiezingen

Use Babelfish...I'm not gonna translate everything...

disconnected

Koningin Beatrix heeft op zaterdag 2 december 2006 telefonisch contact gehad met informateur Hoekstra. Hoekstra heeft de Koningin ingelicht over de voortgang in de informatiewerkzaamheden.

De informateur had vrijdag en zaterdag vervolggesprekken met de fractievoorzitters van de SP, de PvdA en het CDA. Daarvoor sprak hij met alle fractievoorzitters uit de Tweede Kamer.

Informateur Hoekstra onderzoekt welke meerderheidskabinetten mogelijk zijn, de bereidheid van partijen om aan een kabinet deel te nemen en over welke onderwerpen moet worden onderhandeld.

Source: http://www.kabinetsformatie2006.nl/index.jsp

Cuntified C

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

a lot of things the dutch do are good like legaliseing marijuana and stopping gentically modified foods or do they?

but id say theyre too lenient on crime

so are rock stars in holland against guns and rock stars in usa for guns? i never really hear of usa rock stars campainging to take away guns -in fact ted nugent is a right wing crazy wacko

Marijuana is not actually legal, it's decriminalised. It's strange because you hit Amsterdam and you can fucking smell the stuff as soon as you arrive and there are coffee shops on every street corner, I swear to God. But yet it still isn't strictly legal it's decriminalised which means you can smoke it but not out on the streets and if you cause any trouble in their country, and they see you have that on you, they can still use it to kick you out of their country.

Obi Once

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/amsterdam/0043020452.html

i was trying to find crime rate there but so far cant

Not a bad article! I havent read it in full, but

Authorities are not duty-bound to prosecute criminal acts, which leaves a loophole for social experimentation in areas that technically are illegal. It has been wryly said that the Netherlands has one of the lowest crime rates in Europe because whenever something becomes a criminal problem, the Dutch make it legal, thereby reducing crime at a stroke.

alltho this is non sense.. the dutch law doesnt bend for anything that becomes a problem. yet it doesnt make prostitution, weed, abortion and euthanesia illegal, since these our choices of free people and as long as nobody else is hurt by these things.. prostitution is a though one tho, but the whip of law is cracking down on the red light district in A'dam as we speak.

Supplying free heroin to addicts, with medical support, has helped prevent the spread of HIV and slashed the drug's street price so that addicts commit fewer crimes to feed their habit. Both health-care and law-enforcement costs have gone down. The Netherlands has significantly lower rates of heroin addiction, drug use and drug addiction in general, and drug-related deaths, than Britain, France, Germany, and other west European countries that criticize Holland so fiercely on this issue.

Yes junkies who would steal and rob for their heroin are kept of the streets and dont bother anyone, whats the problem?

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

get me crime statictics for amsterdam -i cant find a link

Let me know wheb u find it and compare it to that of LA or NY.

when hitler took all the guns away from people do you think that was good?

Dude.......... And you acuse others of being stupid.. :rolleyes:

Kushikushun wrote:

....and Ravenna, you keep throwing new stuff up while not responding to our replies to your earlier quotes. I now fully understand why you would vote Pim Fortuyn as his campaign was much in the same manner: thowing out popular slogans, but never having a real answer to serious problems...!

Kushikushun 1 - 0 Ravenna

There's no discussion in this guy/girls posts it's just blind screaming and pointing without having an idea what its about, I think we should just ignore those posts like on earlier pages, they make no sense at all.

Kushikushun wrote:

I would like to ask everybody to stay on topic in this thread or open a new thread on the politics in the Netherlands compared to the USA :mad:

I haven't heard much about the coalition progress...have you guys? Have they actually started talking yet?

Yeah but CDA is not giving any preference so it's kinda going nowhere, just like a few years ago w/ CDA PvdA. Still can't believe CDA got a mayority :mad:

Obi Once

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

where in nl do you live ?small towns ok just like usa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague

Small towns suck.

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

a lot of things the dutch do are good like legaliseing marijuana and stopping gentically modified foods or do they?

WHAHAHAAA What the hell is gentically modified food? And whats the Q for that matter

Kushikushun

Obi Once wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague

Small towns suck.

WHAHAHAAA What the hell is gentically modified food? And whats the Q for that matter

It is an interesting matter as many of the things Ravenna TRIES to point out are...but she just does it in the wrong way pushing the wrong buttons..!!
I don't mind discussing our politics with foreigners who think our policies on abortion/ softdrugs / etc are strange though.
Allthough I have not been very happy with our political situation here, I am still happy to be living in such a progressive country.
So, as a reply to Ravenna once more, the Dutch are not easy-going, in the middle of nowhere, soft-spoken people at all...we dare to discuss things that are taboo in most countries (such as yours) and come up with solutions.

The thing is that before the hard line taken by people such as Wilders and Fortuyn, these things would be thoughtfully debated instead of just shouting a bunch of cr*p. Things are neither black nor white and I would be very happy if our government would start to balance their actions more instead of following popular opinion like a bunch of sheeps (pretending to be the wolves...).
We are famous for our open debating system to come to concensus..although I agree it can become annoying and passive, which is a flaw of the system.

Ravenna are you gonna respond to my messages any time soon, maybe?..I am still trying to keep the debate OPEN...maybe would even open another thread for this!

Groetjes allemaal!!

Kushikushun

Obi Once wrote:

Kushikushun 1 - 0 Ravenna

Thanks,...but this is not what I am in for. Its not a game to me, I seriously feel this things. I am not trying to put someone down, and I hope I havent...
I might have though and I am sorry for that, its just that I cannot stand it when people just write something down without explaining themselves properly or respond in a sensible way to other peoples responses.

That's it...no more...tralalatwidelididi...Hakuna Matata...etc.

Obi Once

Oh i understand and it's very straight forward exactly what he is doing, just keeps pushing topics without debating any. I for one am not trying to put him down or anything it's just the plain truth that u wrote down. I'm done with responding if it's just looked over and another 'statement' is dropped in out of the blue.

I've learned on this forum that there are people who will not participate in a discussion, but only add 'their ideas', they won't learn or illustrate anything or be interested in other points of view, they just wanna rant.

And yes it's very questionable why people are open to ideas of Fortuyn or Wilders. All they do is point at a group (minority) of people and blame 'm, like Hitler did with the Jews (if you wanna compare anyone to Hitler like done earlier in this thread). I know 1 person who said he would vote for Wilders and I questioned him why and all he could come up with were things that bothered him about the large amount of foreighn people in his part of town. I asked why he wouldnt move and vote for someone who had actual ideas instead of short sighted generalisations? He didnt answer to that..

And yes I also love my country even tho I don't love everything that happens, I wouldnt want to live anywhere else.. Altho a tropicial island with decent waves would be nice.

disconnected

Ravenna just can't conquer the arguments you gave
He's speachless?

Kushikushun

Obi Once wrote:

Oh i understand and it's very straight forward exactly what he is doing, just keeps pushing topics without debating any. I for one am not trying to put him down or anything it's just the plain truth that u wrote down. I'm done with responding if it's just looked over and another 'statement' is dropped in out of the blue.

I've learned on this forum that there are people who will not participate in a discussion, but only add 'their ideas', they won't learn or illustrate anything or be interested in other points of view, they just wanna rant.

And yes it's very questionable why people are open to ideas of Fortuyn or Wilders. All they do is point at a group (minority) of people and blame 'm, like Hitler did with the Jews (if you wanna compare anyone to Hitler like done earlier in this thread). I know 1 person who said he would vote for Wilders and I questioned him why and all he could come up with were things that bothered him about the large amount of foreighn people in his part of town. I asked why he wouldnt move and vote for someone who had actual ideas instead of short sighted generalisations? He didnt answer to that..

And yes I also love my country even tho I don't love everything that happens, I wouldnt want to live anywhere else.. Altho a tropicial island with decent waves would be nice.

Thanks for understanding...I am ready to just talk amongst ourselves here and ignore the ranting!

Kushikushun

Obi Once wrote:

Oh i understand and it's very straight forward exactly what he is doing, just keeps pushing topics without debating any. I for one am not trying to put him down or anything it's just the plain truth that u wrote down. I'm done with responding if it's just looked over and another 'statement' is dropped in out of the blue.

I've learned on this forum that there are people who will not participate in a discussion, but only add 'their ideas', they won't learn or illustrate anything or be interested in other points of view, they just wanna rant.

And yes it's very questionable why people are open to ideas of Fortuyn or Wilders. All they do is point at a group (minority) of people and blame 'm, like Hitler did with the Jews (if you wanna compare anyone to Hitler like done earlier in this thread). I know 1 person who said he would vote for Wilders and I questioned him why and all he could come up with were things that bothered him about the large amount of foreighn people in his part of town. I asked why he wouldnt move and vote for someone who had actual ideas instead of short sighted generalisations? He didnt answer to that..

And yes I also love my country even tho I don't love everything that happens, I wouldnt want to live anywhere else.. Altho a tropicial island with decent waves would be nice.

Thanks for understanding...I am ready to just talk amongst ourselves here and ignore the ranting!
I could live on such an island, with my guy and PJ coming around to play some nice music while we are all sitting by the fire on the beach...awww...*wants to keep on dreaming*