Japan vs Iraq

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Well at least they are still alive and breathing. And if you think your tough love approach is better (obey the U.S. or die) that speaks also where you stand. Sounds a little worse than wearing hoods and stick beating to me. You think you can solve this through more violence, but it's only making it worse.

Worse is a matter of perspective. With your logic, if we could hypothetically offer the Afghanis an end to war if they would just accept the taliban way of life again, they would gladly accept that offer. Do you believe that?

catefrances

sponger wrote:

Better yet, why don't we just let the US and NATO pull out so the Taliban and take control of the country again? You'd prefer that? You'd like to see women robbed of educations again? You'd like to see them wearing hoods and being beaten with sticks?

oh allow me to answer those questions.


yes NATO and thwe US should pull out of afghanistan. i mean honestly what the fuck is a security organisation supposedly made up of countries based around the north atlantic doing in central asia anyway?

i would prefer the most stable governing in afghanistan as in anywhere else.

lets do a comparative study of christianity 600 years ago and islam today at the same age shall we? when was it again women were burned at the stake for being witches? how long ago was it that women were refused entry in education again? how long ago was it that women had no rights whatsoever in our society again?
you are of the opinion that certain islamists are too fundamentalist and yet you dont seem to think of the age the religion is. 600 years ago christianity was barbaric as well. perhaps or perhaps not, more subtle and certainly not as in the public eye as everything seems to be now, but still the behaviour and oppression was there.
try to be a little more objective.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

Worse is a matter of perspective. With your logic, if we could hypothetically offer the Afghanis an end to war if they would just accept the taliban way of life again, they would gladly accept that offer. Do you believe that?

Did Afghanistan ask the US or the UN for repeatedly for help prior to being invaded or did the US gov't just walk in guns blazing?

Not everyone is the same in the world...lots of different local customs, places and people. Expect to be a little shocked and sometimes disgusted as you travel around the world. Feel free to enjoy different cultures, or not, but you can't kill what you does not appeal to you.

Thank you for not smoking

sponger

catefrances wrote:

oh allow me to answer those questions.


yes NATO and thwe US should pull out of afghanistan. i mean honestly what the fuck is a security organisation supposedly made up of countries based around the north atlantic doing in central asia anyway?

i would prefer the most stable governing in afghanistan as in anywhere else.

lets do a comparative study of christianity 600 years ago and islam today at the same age shall we? when was it again women were burned at the stake for being witches? how long ago was it that women were refused entry in education again? how long ago was it that women had no rights whatsoever in our society again?
you are of the opinion that certain islamists are too fundamentalist and yet you dont seem to think of the age the religion is. 600 years ago christianity was barbaric as well. perhaps or perhaps not, more subtle and certainly not as in the public eye as everything seems to be now, but still the behaviour and oppression was there.
try to be a little more objective.

Right, nice comparison. Try remembering that Islam has progressed considerably since its days of inception, and the taliban have intentionally reverted to the fundamentalist ideals in spite of being exposed to the more modern adaptations of their religion.

Again, compare that to your "objective" example of christianity 600 years ago and please inform of me of the instances where the church made a giant step backwards in its practices.

Now do you see how you might need to work on your powers of analogizing?

Lastly, never once did I saythe US is justified. I am merely pointing out that no one (especially you now) can definitively say whether the afghani people are better or worse off either today or tomorrow.

gue_barium

catefrances wrote:

oh allow me to answer those questions.


yes NATO and thwe US should pull out of afghanistan. i mean honestly what the fuck is a security organisation supposedly made up of countries based around the north atlantic doing in central asia anyway?

i would prefer the most stable governing in afghanistan as in anywhere else.

lets do a comparative study of christianity 600 years ago and islam today at the same age shall we? when was it again women were burned at the stake for being witches? how long ago was it that women were refused entry in education again? how long ago was it that women had no rights whatsoever in our society again?
you are of the opinion that certain islamists are too fundamentalist and yet you dont seem to think of the age the religion is. 600 years ago christianity was barbaric as well. perhaps or perhaps not, more subtle and certainly not as in the public eye as everything seems to be now, but still the behaviour and oppression was there.
try to be a little more objective.

Nice post.
US foreign policy cannot concern itself in cultural idioms.

US foreign policy should concern itself in its own idiomatic separation of its people. In a way that is understood by all of us.

Goddammit.

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

Right, nice comparison. Try remembering that Islam has progressed considerably since its days of inception, and the taliban have intentionally reverted to the fundamentalist ideals in spite of being exposed to the more modern adaptations of their religion.

Again, compare that to your "objective" example of christianity 600 years ago and please inform of me of the instances where the church made a giant step backwards in its practices.

Now do you see how you might need to work on your powers of analogizing?

Lastly, never once did I saythe US is justified. I am merely pointing out that no one (especially you now) can definitively say whether the afghani people are better or worse off either today or tomorrow.

The Amish, in our country, stand steadfast, and rightfully so, in their fundamentalist ideas.

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Did Afghanistan ask the US or the UN for repeatedly for help prior to being invaded or did the US gov't just walk in guns blazing?

Not everyone is the same in the world...lots of different local customs, places and people. Expect to be a little shocked and sometimes disgusted as you travel around the world. Feel free to enjoy different cultures, or not, but you can't kill what you does not appeal to you.

Thank you for not smoking

OK, so by that you mean that the Aghani people would in fact agree to the taliban way of life if the US offered an end to war. Thank you for answering my question.

sponger

gue_barium wrote:

The Amish, in our country, stand steadfast, and rightfully so, in their fundamentalist ideas.

And you expect them to morph into Pat Robertsons when?

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

And you expect them to morph into Pat Robertsons when?

I have no idea what that means?

I respect the Amish.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

When were women allowed to vote in the US? I'm amazed there wasn't an invasion over it...sigh... imagine!

sponger

gue_barium wrote:

I have no idea what that means?

I respect the Amish.

catefrances was saying that the taliban will eventually progress just as christanity progressed.

i said not so because the taliban intentionally regressed.

if you use the amish to substantiate catefrance's projection, then you imply that the amish will eventually progress into modern day christianity....if one were to call that a progression.

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

When were women allowed to vote in the US? I'm amazed there wasn't an invasion over it...sigh... imagine!

So, when women weren't allowed to vote in the US, it was the same thing as putting hoods over their heads and beating them sticks. no, your views aren't skewed at all...lol.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

OK, so by that you mean that the Aghani people would in fact agree to the taliban way of life if the US offered an end to war. Thank you for answering my question.

Naw the US would sell them a bunch of guns before they leave as per usual and say here have at it...were done screwing around with you guys for a little while.

Be back later....or come see us again...either way. We got lots of ammo...

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

So, when women weren't allowed to vote in the US, it was the same thing as putting hoods over their heads and beating them sticks. no, your views aren't skewed at all...lol.

Oh but metaphorically who is at the higher societal level driving shiny new cars and living the American dream?

wool+eyes=you?

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Naw the US would sell them a bunch of guns before they leave as per usual and say here have at it...were done screwing around with you guys for a little while.

Be back later....or come see us again...either way. We got lots of ammo...

Now that's the most intelligent thing you've said all night in this thread.

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

catefrances was saying that the taliban will eventually progress just as christanity progressed.

i said not so because the taliban intentionally regressed.

if you use the amish to substantiate catefrance's projection, then you imply that the amish will eventually progress into modern day christianity.

No one intentionally regresses.

Apparently there is some nationalistic BS going on/engaged with the Taliban and fundamental Islam, but it was forced.

I recognize it by the wedding band.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

Now that's the most intelligent thing you've said all night in this thread.

and most sad and true as well.

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Oh but metaphorically who is at the higher societal level driving shiny new cars and living the American dream?

wool+eyes=you?

Now you are trying to side step the universality of pain and suffering by using the scales of standard of living to skew the big picture.

You might not be aware, but a study was done in african tribes who have seen little or not contact with the outside world to see if their emotional expressions were any different from our own.

Emotions are universal. Therefore, beatings over the head in Afghanistan are beatings over the head here.

I know you want so badly to have the last word. At least give yourself the credit of doing so without so obviously trying to change the subject with your disturbingly slanted perspectives.

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

and most sad and true as well.

Awwe, aren't you the empathetical one. I suppose you'd like a cookie. You've earned it.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

Awwe, aren't you the empathetical one. I suppose you'd like a cookie. You've earned it.

straight on to about me eh...haha predictable...

Hey Chachi don't be so cool if you can help it. lol...