Japan vs Iraq

Restless Soul

lucylespian wrote:

Both of these countries were flattened by US military action.

Both were offered reconstruction.

One took that opportunity and what was left of their national pride and rebuilt themselves into a dominant economic force.

The other has not, preferring to destroy any reconstruction efforts, and to continue to bomb and murder their fellow citizens.

Who owns the blame ???

The US?

Truthmonger

sponger wrote:

In fact, the iraqis hate the violence and destruction of infrastructure so much that they do it to themselves on a daily basis and on an even greater scale. LMAO...talk about shifting the focus the problem.

I think you're wrong. According to this article, and a similar one in USA Today, the U.S./NATO forces are literally killing more Afghan civilians than are the Taliban !!!

"The casualties listed by Karzai bring the number of civilians killed in NATO or U.S.-led military operations this year to 211, according to an Associated Press tally of figures provided by Afghan and foreign officials and witnesses.

That tops the 172 civilians killed in militant attacks. "


Personally, I like this line by Karzai:

“You do not fight terrorists by firing a field gun 20 miles into a target,” Karzai said. “That is definitely surely bound to cause civilian casualties.

They shoulda just called this article "how to make enemies". WTF ?

http://www.thestar.com/article/228742

Bwalker545

Milestone wrote:

It's religion's fault that the Iraqi people don't have a common goal.
It's the fault of the USA/British that we expect 3 religious sects of Islam to all live together in peace and harmony.

I know I mean Jeez, expecting religous sects to get along, I mean come on that is such an unreasonable request! Not like it happens in most of the rest of the world or anything...

sponger

Truthmonger wrote:

I think you're wrong. According to this article, and a similar one in USA Today, the U.S./NATO forces are literally killing more Afghan civilians than are the Taliban !!!

"The casualties listed by Karzai bring the number of civilians killed in NATO or U.S.-led military operations this year to 211, according to an Associated Press tally of figures provided by Afghan and foreign officials and witnesses.

That tops the 172 civilians killed in militant attacks. "


Personally, I like this line by Karzai:

“You do not fight terrorists by firing a field gun 20 miles into a target,” Karzai said. “That is definitely surely bound to cause civilian casualties.

Wow, I know some people have trouble using a map, but i would think it obvious by now that Afghanistan and Iraq are two completely different countries. This is a thread about Iraq and Japan, not Afghanistan and Japan.

Also, none of the statistics in your article are confirmed by NATO. They are all "Afghani sources and witnesses." And, of course, the Afghani have no reason to use every angle to play the victim.....no, not at all.

Better yet, why don't we just let the US and NATO pull out so the Taliban and take control of the country again? You'd prefer that? You'd like to see women robbed of educations again? You'd like to see them wearing hoods and being beaten with sticks?

And if the USA Today article is so "similar", then by all means post it.

They shoulda just called this article "how to make enemies". WTF ?

And that's really the problem isn't it? Personally, you couldn't give a rat's ass about the afghani people. You're just afraid to make enemies. At least you're honest about it.

jlew24asu

sponger wrote:

Wow, I know some people have trouble using a map, but i would think it obvious by now that Afghanistan and Iraq are two completely different countries. This is a thread about Iraq and Japan, not Afghanistan and Japan.

Also, none of the statistics in your article are confirmed by NATO. They are all "Afghani sources and witnesses." And, of course, the Afghani have no reason to use every angle to play the victim.....no, not at all.

Better yet, why don't we just let the US and NATO pull out so the Taliban and take control of the country again? You'd prefer that? You'd like to see women robbed of educations again? You'd like to see them wearing hoods and being beaten with sticks?

And if the USA Today article is so "similar", then by all means post it.



And that's really the problem isn't it? Personally, you couldn't give a rat's ass about the afghani people. You're just afraid to make enemies. At least you're honest about it.

good to see someone on the right side for a change. and I dont mean republican or democrat

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

Better yet, why don't we just let the US and NATO pull out so the Taliban and take control of the country again? You'd prefer that? You'd like to see women robbed of educations again? You'd like to see them wearing hoods and being beaten with sticks?

By whatever means necessary?

honestly that mentality can go fuck itself sideways...

what the US gov't is doctor Phil now?

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

By whatever means necessary?

honestly that mentality can go fuck itself sideways...

what the US gov't is doctor Phil now?

The point is that there's no point in screaming bloody murder when no one really cares either way. After all, do you really care? It seems that your chief concern is making sure that the US doesn't look righteous in its actions. I'm not saying that it is righteous.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

The point is that there's no point in screaming bloody murder when no one really cares either way. After all, do you really care? It seems that your chief concern is making sure that the US doesn't look righteous in its actions. I'm not saying that it is righteous.

I'm just saying the US is not the parents of the world. At some point you gotta let your kids make mistakes and learn and grow up for themselves.

Do I care? Yeah it's sad. Would I cross a vast ocean to blow up a country and kill people over it? No.

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I'm just saying the US is not the parents of the world.

If that's all you care about, then it doesn't matter to you whether the US is right or wrong or whether the Afghani people are better or worse off. You just don't want the US to don't anything at all about anything. In that case, you only prove my point which is that no one really gives a fuck. And since no one gives a fuck, they need to stop posting these statistics like they actually give a shit when they really don't.

At some point you gotta let your kids make mistakes and learn and grow up for themselves.

Do I care? Yeah it's sad. Would I cross a vast ocean to blow up a country and kill people over it? No.

But, the premise of your argument dictates that you must be more sad for the aghani people now than you were before the US and NATO showed up.

If that's the case, then please state why.

If it's not the case, then you either believe that the Aghani people are now better off, or you just stopped caring.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

If that's all you care about, then it doesn't matter to you whether the US is right or wrong or whether the Afghani people are better or worse off. You just don't want the US to don't anything at all about anything. In that case, you only prove my point which is that no one really gives a fuck. And since no one gives a fuck, they need to stop posting these statistics like they actually give a shit when they really don't.




But, the premise of your argument dictates that you must be more sad for the aghani people now than you were before the US and NATO showed up.

If that's the case, then please state why.

If it's not the case, then you either believe that the Aghani people are now better off, or you just stopped caring.

Whats wrong with letting them be to develop through their periods in time as every other country has been essentially allowed to do internally thus far?

Do you right every wrong you see in your day, and go out of your way no matter what it costs you in time and money to fix everything you see?

A hands off approach is less severe than the tough love approach (obey or die).

I guess what the US gov't is saying is you're in my house now shape up or ship out in a pine box.

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Whats wrong with letting them be to develop through their periods in time as every other country has been essentially allowed to do internally thus far?

Do you right every wrong you see in your day, and go out of your way no matter what it costs you in time and money to fix everything you see?

A hands off approach is less severe than the tough love approach (obey or die).

I guess what the US gov't is saying is you're in my house now shape up or ship out in a pine box.

You say the hands off approach is less severe. By that rationale, you're saying that the afghani people are worse off now than they would've been had the US not intervened.

You might recall that you've already confirmed that the actual welfare of the Afghani people is not your concern. Rather your concern is the US thinking that it is big and bad.

So, again, yes the US is a little arrogant, but that's all it really is to you. It's not really a matter of what is better or worse for the afghani people.

Ahnimus

In the documentary film about Al-Jazeera a reporter is asked "Who is going to stop America" and he replies "America will".

The same is true for any nation.

"democracy delivered by the bomb and the gun, is terror else where in the world I'm from."

"and I wish that I could afford the ear of Bush the second
I'd ask is it your favorite philosopher who recommended
invading and exterminating all who defy us,
crying out justice but seeking out triumphs?
wasn't your christ unbeloved of empires?
one nailed his ass to a post; he expired!
a terrorist, as roman evidence showed
put down like a retard on the death row
in texas, I guess "tough luck," right George?
ain't that how every war gets scored?"

http://frontalot.com/media.php/76/mc_frontalot_-_special_delivery.mp3

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

You say the hands off approach is less severe. By that rationale, you're saying that the afghani people are worse off now than they would've been had the US not intervened.

You might recall that you've already confirmed that the actual welfare of the Afghani people is not your concern. Rather your concern is the US thinking that it is big and bad.

So, again, yes the US is a little arrogant, but that's all it really is to you. It's not really a matter of what is better or worse for the afghani people.

Yes the Afghani people are worse off now. Their country is a mess right now, bullets are flying all over the place. Is that supposed to be better? We can;t babysit them forever you know. Do you think parents can and should monitor their kids 24/7? You keep harping on my concern thing like it's a cap feather. Thats not only be mistaken but misguided.

I don't think any country should police and bully another.

And if this does happen between neighboring countries and blows come to blows in a particular region I would not expect another country from thousands of miles away to come racing across the ocean to play big brother ands start killing undesirables over local customs and womens rights issues.

Let the region work out their societal issues as it should be in every county , and has been since the dawn of time. But the US knows best and apparently what people do in their houses (countries) is the US gov't business now, and if they don't like it ...watch out. But there has to be a cash grab incentive apparently. China can do whatever...

Same in America ...what you do behind your own closed doors is not really entirely your own business either...increasingly less as time goes on.

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

You say the hands off approach is less severe. By that rationale, you're saying that the afghani people are worse off now than they would've been had the US not intervened.

You might recall that you've already confirmed that the actual welfare of the Afghani people is not your concern. Rather your concern is the US thinking that it is big and bad.

So, again, yes the US is a little arrogant, but that's all it really is to you. It's not really a matter of what is better or worse for the afghani people.

If you could take that passion toward what is good for the American people, that would be a plus. These trinkets we possess, this consumerism mentality that is working against ourselves, is noted: in your trinket-thought of the Afghani people.

sponger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Yes the Afghani people are worse off now. Their country is a mess right now, bullets are flying all over the place. Is that supposed to be better? We can;t babysit them forever you know. Do you think parents can and should monitor their kids 24/7? You keep harping on my concern thing like it's a cap feather. Thats not only be mistaken but misguided.

I don't think any country should police and bully another.

And if this does happen between neighboring countries and blows come to blows in a particular region I would not expect another country from thousands of miles away to come racing across the ocean to play big brother ands start killing undesirables over local customs and womens rights issues.

Let the region work out their societal issues as it should be in every county , and has been since the dawn of time. But the US knows best and apparently what people do in their houses (countries) is the US gov't business now, and if they don't like it ...watch out. But there has to be a cash grab incentive apparently. China can do whatever...

Same in America ...what you do behind your own closed doors is not really entirely your own business either...increasingly less as time goes on.

In that case, you could've saved us both some time and simply answered the question below:

sponger wrote:

Better yet, why don't we just let the US and NATO pull out so the Taliban and take control of the country again? You'd prefer that? You'd like to see women robbed of educations again? You'd like to see them wearing hoods and being beaten with sticks?

Instead, you answered with something a little different. It's nice to know where you stand on this now.

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

In that case, you could've saved us both some time and simply answered the question below:



Instead, you answered with something a little different. It's nice to know where you stand on this now.

Why don't we take care of America first?

sponger

gue_barium wrote:

Why don't we take care of America first?

The topic of this thread isn't what we should do instead.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

In that case, you could've saved us both some time and simply answered the question below:



Instead, you answered with something a little different. It's nice to know where you stand on this now.

Well at least they are still alive and breathing. And if you think your tough love approach is better (obey the U.S. or die) that speaks also where you stand. Sounds a little worse than wearing hoods and stick beating to me. You think you can solve this through more violence, but it's only making it worse.

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

The topic of this thread isn't what we should do instead.

The topic of your reply was.

sponger

gue_barium wrote:

The topic of your reply was.

Only as a hypothetical to complete the logic of the post I was responding to. More specifically, it was what should be done in that particular country instead.