Japan vs Iraq

even flow?

lucylespian wrote:

Both of these countries were flattened by US military action.

Both were offered reconstruction.

One took that opportunity and what was left of their national pride and rebuilt themselves into a dominant economic force.

The other has not, preferring to destroy any reconstruction efforts, and to continue to bomb and murder their fellow citizens.

Who owns the blame ???

How long were British and American interests supporting puppet governments and extracting oil from beneath Japan?

Cosmo

lucylespian wrote:

Both of these countries were flattened by US military action.

Both were offered reconstruction.

One took that opportunity and what was left of their national pride and rebuilt themselves into a dominant economic force.

The other has not, preferring to destroy any reconstruction efforts, and to continue to bomb and murder their fellow citizens.

Who owns the blame ???

...
The answer is real simple:
Japan = Japanese
Iraq = Not Japanese

Ahnimus

Dude! What a question!

The United States dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan and would have easily dropped more. Japan didn't have much choice in the matter.

Iraqis are standing up for themselves a bit, but even though it's not the government doing it. The two aren't comparable at all.

Truthmonger

lucylespian wrote:

I unnderstaand that the Iraqis were pissed, but it's time to get over that.

Sweet Jesus, tell me you're kidding. Get over what ?!?....its STILL happening. Every week an errant American bomb wipes out a wedding party or an orphanage full of kids. In some parts of Iraq there is still only 2-3 hours of electricity a day. Security is negligible. There is now a low-grade civil war going on. 1.5 - 2 million Iraqis have now fled the country. Another 2-3 million have been displaced.

All this and much, much more because the U.S. lied its face off to go to war with Iraq. I have a better idea......lets start bombing the liars of this world, and the people in counties who condone this type of shit. And I know exactly where to start....

sponger

Byrnzie wrote:

You're asking me to give an example of an aspect of middle eastern culture which proves why we shouldn't be racist towards them?
No. I'll just let your words speak for themselves instead and let everyone who reads them draw their own conclusions.



So you're saying that it's disgusting that I have failed to counter your racism? O.k, fine. I've failed.
Somehow though, I don't care what you think. In the big scheme of things your personal prejudices seem somewhat irrelevant.

I guess you didn't notice that I put the words racist and ignorance in quotations so as to help you understand how my response related to your blatherings.

It isn't a matter of racism; it's a matter of understanding their culture. It's an understanding that you haven't even remotely begun to demonstrate.

Instead, in your typical fashion, you play the race card and try to act as though whatever empty accusations you make are somehow going to be magically supported by some invisible audience.

You apparently don't understand the topic at hand, but you know enough vocabulary words to make it sound as though you've developed some well thought out point of view on the issue. Too bad.

sponger

Truthmonger wrote:

Sweet Jesus, tell me you're kidding. Get over what ?!?....its STILL happening. Every week an errant American bomb wipes out a wedding party or an orphanage full of kids. In some parts of Iraq there is still only 2-3 hours of electricity a day. Security is negligible. There is now a low-grade civil war going on. 1.5 - 2 million Iraqis have now fled the country. Another 2-3 million have been displaced.

All this and much, much more because the U.S. lied its face off to go to war with Iraq. I have a better idea......lets start bombing the liars of this world, and the people in counties who condone this type of shit. And I know exactly where to start....

In fact, the iraqis hate the violence and destruction of infrastructure so much that they do it to themselves on a daily basis and on an even greater scale. LMAO...talk about shifting the focus the problem. And when was the last time a US bomb killed an entire gathering of people? Weekly basis? You should change your name to exaggerationmonger.

Byrnzie

sponger wrote:

It isn't a matter of racism; it's a matter of understanding their culture. It's an understanding that you haven't even remotely begun to demonstrate.

You apparently don't understand the topic at hand, but you know enough vocabulary words to make it sound as though you've developed some well thought out point of view on the issue. Too bad.

O.k fine. I'll replace the word racism with another 'vocabulary word'; 'Xenophobia'. There, how's that? I hope you feel better now?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

Eh, it reminds me of this documentary I saw about some backwoods jury who convicted a doctor of malpractice because it was exactly the opposite of what "expert" testimony had recommended they do.

One of the jurors after the trial said, "Those city folk thought they could come here and make fools out of us with their technical explanations."

Every single person in that jury was so distrustful of non-rural people that they purposely decided in the opposite of what "city-folk" recommended, regardless of the professional and academic backgrounds of said city folk.

A law in that state had to be created just to stop that type of thing from happening in the future. I forgot which state it was.

This sounds like the majority of America and the rest of the world to me....lol

Byrnzie

sponger wrote:

And when was the last time a US bomb killed an entire gathering of people? Weekly basis? You should change your name to exaggerationmonger.

Iraq: US Data on Civilian Casualties Raises Serious Concerns
April 12, 2007) – US government documents made public by court order raise serious concerns about the number of civilian casualties caused by American soldiers and contractors in Iraq and the standards under which it pays compensation to Iraqi victims, Human Rights Watch said today
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/04/12/iraq15687.htm

British forces killed 15 civilians - May 26, 2007
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/news/article_1309712.php/Iraqi_deputy_claims_US_British_forces_killed_15_civilians__Roundup_

Civilian deaths 'deeply shame' US - 8 May 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6636343.stm

40 Civilians killed in U.S air strike - 11 May 2007
http://wsws.org/articles/2007/may2007/afgh-m11.shtml

Nato forces kill 'up to 85' civilians in Afghan attack - 27 October 2006
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1932719.ece

US troops kill 6 civilians in Baqubah - 2007-06-16
http://pressesc.com/01182020647_baqubah_bus_strike

Attack that killed kids targeted al-Qaida leader - June 19th, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19318805/


I wonder how many civilian deaths at the hands of U.S troops are not reported? I'd hazard a guess and say that 99% them go unreported.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I wonder how many US troops kill each other monthly....heck the American troops were killing off Canadian troops at almost a weekly rate at one point in Afghanistan.

Truthmonger

Byrnzie wrote:

Iraq: US Data on Civilian Casualties Raises Serious Concerns
April 12, 2007) – US government documents made public by court order raise serious concerns about the number of civilian casualties caused by American soldiers and contractors in Iraq and the standards under which it pays compensation to Iraqi victims, Human Rights Watch said today
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/04/12/iraq15687.htm

British forces killed 15 civilians - May 26, 2007
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/news/article_1309712.php/Iraqi_deputy_claims_US_British_forces_killed_15_civilians__Roundup_

Civilian deaths 'deeply shame' US - 8 May 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6636343.stm

40 Civilians killed in U.S air strike - 11 May 2007
http://wsws.org/articles/2007/may2007/afgh-m11.shtml

Nato forces kill 'up to 85' civilians in Afghan attack - 27 October 2006
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1932719.ece

US troops kill 6 civilians in Baqubah - 2007-06-16
http://pressesc.com/01182020647_baqubah_bus_strike

Attack that killed kids targeted al-Qaida leader - June 19th, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19318805/


I wonder how many civilian deaths at the hands of U.S troops are not reported? I'd hazard a guess and say that 99% them go unreported.

It was getting so bad in Afghanistan alone that Karzai got fed up and denounced the bombings against his people. And this was Karzai !! But then another happened. And then another. And then another. I think he gave up trying to chastise the Americans for their actions. Between Afghanistan and Iraq, ya, it happens on an almost weekly basis. Its disgusting.

jlew24asu

lucylespian wrote:

So, you never choose to fix anything broken in your home, regardless of who broke it ???

good analogy...and question.

jlew24asu

catefrances wrote:

please explain to me how the two cases are comparable.

Both of these countries were flattened by US military action.

Both were offered reconstruction.

jlew24asu

LikeAnOcean wrote:

The big difference here is.. Iraq was a mess before we invaded.. Japan wasn't.

Again, totally different culture, circumstances. I don't think they can be compared.

we are all human beings arent we?

Both of these countries were flattened by US military action.

Both were offered reconstruction.


in all cases human beings were involved. culture, circumstances are irrelevant

sponger

Byrnzie wrote:

Iraq: US Data on Civilian Casualties Raises Serious Concerns
April 12, 2007) – US government documents made public by court order raise serious concerns about the number of civilian casualties caused by American soldiers and contractors in Iraq and the standards under which it pays compensation to Iraqi victims, Human Rights Watch said today
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/04/12/iraq15687.htm

British forces killed 15 civilians - May 26, 2007
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/news/article_1309712.php/Iraqi_deputy_claims_US_British_forces_killed_15_civilians__Roundup_

Civilian deaths 'deeply shame' US - 8 May 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6636343.stm

40 Civilians killed in U.S air strike - 11 May 2007
http://wsws.org/articles/2007/may2007/afgh-m11.shtml

Nato forces kill 'up to 85' civilians in Afghan attack - 27 October 2006
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1932719.ece

US troops kill 6 civilians in Baqubah - 2007-06-16
http://pressesc.com/01182020647_baqubah_bus_strike

Attack that killed kids targeted al-Qaida leader - June 19th, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19318805/


I wonder how many civilian deaths at the hands of U.S troops are not reported? I'd hazard a guess and say that 99% them go unreported.

I don't know what kind of wedding parties or orphanages you've been to, but I venture to guess that the average attendance at either one of those is well above the 10-15 people that your links cite.

Not to mention, some of the larger numbers were never confirmed by NATO.

I guess that's why you felt like you needed to pump up the big picture with that fantastical percentage representing the supposed "unreported" deaths. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but you might want to ask yourself why you are so eager to take a stance that carries little basis.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

lucylespian wrote:

So, you never choose to fix anything broken in your home, regardless of who broke it ???

That usually only happens in my house when hyperactive children run around doing foolish things. But if you do break it, plan on fixing it....and if I have to fix it for you ....it's going to be a problem for yourself that you've just created.

sponger

Byrnzie wrote:

O.k fine. I'll replace the word racism with another 'vocabulary word'; 'Xenophobia'. There, how's that? I hope you feel better now?

Not at all, Byrnzie. I have no problem with the arabs or their religion or culture. Arabs live all around us here and it doesn't bother me at all.

But, I do know that blaming the west for their problems only adds to their problems, and it's exactly what their leaders want them to do so that they remain easily controlled. You either don't know this or don't care. Either way, your avoidance of that aspect of their situation would explain why you have to rely on empty assumptions about my personality in order to explain the contrast between our opinions.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sponger wrote:

I don't know what kind of wedding parties or orphanages you've been to, but I venture to guess that the average attendance at either one of those is well above the 10-15 people that your links cite.

Not to mention, some of the larger numbers were never confirmed by NATO.

I guess that's why you felt like you needed to pump up the big picture with that fantastical percentage representing the supposed "unreported" deaths. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but you might want to ask yourself why you are so eager to take a stance that carries little basis.

It a bloody good war I'd say. Fucking excellent really. I say more casualties...nothing irks me more than a pussy low casualty war...

Milestone

lucylespian wrote:

Both of these countries were flattened by US military action.

Both were offered reconstruction.

One took that opportunity and what was left of their national pride and rebuilt themselves into a dominant economic force.

The other has not, preferring to destroy any reconstruction efforts, and to continue to bomb and murder their fellow citizens.

Who owns the blame ???

Iraq will never cooperate with the reconstruction effort because of religious differences between their citizens.

It was easier for Japan to cooperate because they are all one religion and shared a common goal to rebuild their country.

jlew24asu

Milestone wrote:

Iraq will never cooperate with the reconstruction effort because of religious differences between their citizens.

It was easier for Japan to cooperate because they are all one religion and shared a common goal to rebuild their country.

so its religions fault or the american and british government ?