Japan vs Iraq

lucylespian

Both of these countries were flattened by US military action.

Both were offered reconstruction.

One took that opportunity and what was left of their national pride and rebuilt themselves into a dominant economic force.

The other has not, preferring to destroy any reconstruction efforts, and to continue to bomb and murder their fellow citizens.

Who owns the blame ???

sponger

Eh, it reminds me of this documentary I saw about some backwoods jury who convicted a doctor of malpractice because it was exactly the opposite of what "expert" testimony had recommended they do.

One of the jurors after the trial said, "Those city folk thought they could come here and make fools out of us with their technical explanations."

Every single person in that jury was so distrustful of non-rural people that they purposely decided in the opposite of what "city-folk" recommended, regardless of the professional and academic backgrounds of said city folk.

A law in that state had to be created just to stop that type of thing from happening in the future. I forgot which state it was.

catefrances

please explain to me how the two cases are comparable.

Byrnzie

lucylespian wrote:

Who owns the blame ???

The British and American Governments are to blame. That was easy.

sponger

catefrances wrote:

please explain to me how the two cases are comparable.

The people of Iraq and its surrounding nations are so distrustful of the great white satan that they take comfort in knowing that, even when their own people are dying by the droves in suicide bombings perpetrated by their fellow arabs, at least it is in defiance of the west.

lucylespian

sponger wrote:

The people of Iraq and its surrounding nations are so distrustful of the great white satan that they take comfort in knowing that, even when their own people are dying by the droves in suicide bombings perpetrated by their fellow arabs, at least it is in defiance of the west.

So, they are happy to continue cutting off their noses to spite their faces ??

lucylespian

Byrnzie wrote:

The British and American Governments are to blame. That was easy.

OK, so now tell me who owns the problem ??

catefrances

sponger wrote:

The people of Iraq and its surrounding nations are so distrustful of the great white satan that they take comfort in knowing that, even when their own people are dying by the droves in suicide bombings perpetrated by their fellow arabs, at least it is in defiance of the west.

well i cant imagine WHY they would be so distrustful, can you? :rolleyes:


liar liar iraq's on fire.

sponger

lucylespian wrote:

So, they are happy to continue cutting off their noses to spite their faces ??

Wouldn't you if you believed that it was in the interest of chasing out the devil?

catefrances

lucylespian wrote:

OK, so now tell me who owns the problem ??

whoever invaded iraq owns the problem.

who break it you own it.

sponger

catefrances wrote:

well i cant imagine WHY they would be so distrustful, can you? :rolleyes:


liar liar iraq's on fire.

It's all about priorities, catefrances. The west may have meddled in arab affairs in the name of self-interest, but we're talking about a people who have lived with exponentially greater levels of oppression with hardly a whimper.

By insinuating that their distrust is justified, you assume that they're even capable of knowing the difference. History has shown that they are not.

lucylespian

catefrances wrote:

whoever invaded iraq owns the problem.

who break it you own it.

So, you never choose to fix anything broken in your home, regardless of who broke it ???

LikeAnOcean

lucylespian wrote:

Both of these countries were flattened by US military action.

Both were offered reconstruction.

One took that opportunity and what was left of their national pride and rebuilt themselves into a dominant economic force.

The other has not, preferring to destroy any reconstruction efforts, and to continue to bomb and murder their fellow citizens.

Who owns the blame ???

Am I missing something.. did Saddams army join forces with the Nazi's and bomb Pearl Harbor in an effort to rule the world???

Not even a close comparison. This thread is comical.

sponger

LikeAnOcean wrote:

Am I missing something.. did Saddams army join forces with the Nazi's and bomb Pearl Harbor in an effort to rule the world???

Not even a close comparison. This thread is comical.

Did the people of Japan have any real control over the decisions of their leaders and generals?

This thread is about how the people of these nations reacted to their circumstances, not how they ended up in those circumstances.

lucylespian

sponger wrote:

Wouldn't you if you believed that it was in the interest of chasing out the devil?

Except that the best way to get rid of the Devil is to stop blowing shit up.

Byrnzie

lucylespian wrote:

OK, so now tell me who owns the problem ??

The British and American Governments own the problem. Even if they now decide to pull out of Iraq, the problem won't leave them alone.

sponger

lucylespian wrote:

Except that the best way to get rid of the Devil is to stop blowing shit up.

Not necessarily. A reduction in violence would speed up western influence in iraqi business and culture.

Byrnzie

lucylespian wrote:

Except that the best way to get rid of the Devil is to stop blowing shit up.

You mean that they should embrace their occupiers and accept America's benevolent intentions of improving the lives of Iraqis everywhere? Is this what Israel has been attempting to do by occupying Palestine? Do you think that they are hoping to improve the lives of Palestinians by stealing their land, bulldozing their homes, and killing their men, women and children indiscriminately?

If only these pesky Iraqis weren't so damn ungrateful, and were civilized enough to realize that we come with good intentions. If they had only just handed over their natural resources to us, and not attempted to defend themselves, then none of this carnage would now be occurring. They are obviously, innately barbarous by nature.

catefrances

sponger wrote:

It's all about priorities, catefrances. The west may have meddled in arab affairs in the name of self-interest, but we're talking about a people who have lived with exponentially greater levels of oppression with hardly a whimper.

By insinuating that their distrust is justified, you assume that they're even capable of knowing the difference. History has shown that they are not.

may have meddled? the west has meddled in the middle east for so long they think of it as just something else to do on the weekend.
the west chose to stand by and support those same tyrants(and not just in the middle east) when it was of interest and value to them. so i dont want to hear any bullshit about how all of a sudden the west knows what the fuck it is doing in the middle east. and that it is benefitting the people of that region. i remember when saddam hussein was 'our' friend. i remember when the US simlutaneously armed and benefitted iran and iraq in that particular war. i remember when the US helped arm the mujahadeen against the soviets i remember when the west stood by while saddam gassed the kurds and did nothing about it.

and yes absolutely their distrust is justified. it is insulting to the people of the middle east that you suggest they dont know the difference. what is needed is guidance and support not rolling tanks, smart bombs and a holier than thou arrogance.

sponger

Byrnzie wrote:

You mean that they should embrace their occupiers and accept America's benevolent intentions of improving the lives of Iraqis everywhere? Is this what Israel has been attempting to do by occupying Palestine? Do you think that they are hoping to improve the lives of Palestinians by stealing their land, bulldozing their homes, and killing their men, women and children indiscriminately?

If only these pesky Iraqis weren't so damn ungrateful, and were civilized enough to realize that we come with good intentions. If they had only just handed over their natural resources to us, and not attempted to defend themselves, then none of this carnage would now be occurring. They are obviously, innately barbarous by nature.

Right, compare that to how Arafat and the PLO pretty much single-handedly ensured the virtual destruction of what was once the "Switzerland of the Middle-East". When they have problems as serious as that within their own borders, then they need a scapegoat like Israel and the Jews on which to pin the blame.

LikeAnOcean

sponger wrote:

Did the people of Japan have any real control over the decisions of their leaders and generals?

This thread is about how the people of these nations reacted to their circumstances, not how they ended up in those circumstances.

The big difference here is.. Iraq was a mess before we invaded.. Japan wasn't.

Again, totally different culture, circumstances. I don't think they can be compared.