Interesting thought I had.

PJammin'

hippiemom wrote:

YOUR talk is nonsense. People do not exist outside of nature. Homosexuals exist, it is therefore natural.

yeah, sure it is. lets see a baby born between two men.

Wtf? Because someone has things they want to do here, that means they're afraid of death? What the hell kind of logic is that? I imagine Ahnimus doesn't blow his head off because he's having a reasonably good time here and there are experiences he wants to have in this life. He doesn't want to go to sleep yet ... so what?

I want to live, but I'm not the slightest bit afraid to die, and I don't believe in anything remotely close to the biblical heaven.

yeah, it would be interesting to hear how you WANT to die. also, you don't believe in a biblical heaven. that's fine. i'm not here to shove my beliefs on anyone. people can research it for themselves if they want.

PJammin'

soulsinging wrote:

he did. did you not hear about david koresh? he said he was the second coming of jesus, just like jesus used to say he was the son of god. why do you doubt him?

you know the answer to this question. it's about as easy as 1+1.

hippiemom

PJammin' wrote:

yeah, sure it is. lets see a baby born between two men.

Are we talking about reproduction or homosexuality? All I said that was homosexuality occurs throughout nature, and is therefore natural. I didn't say it made babies.

PJammin' wrote:

yeah, it would be interesting to hear how you WANT to die. also, you don't believe in a biblical heaven. that's fine. i'm not here to shove my beliefs on anyone. people can research it for themselves if they want.

I want to die in my sleep, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.

jeffbr

PJammin' wrote:

yeah, sure it is. lets see a baby born between two men.

Your definition of natural is "if it leads to procreation."?

cornnifer

soulsinging wrote:

you choose your religion. it is a belief, external to you as a person. homosexuality is not. it is who you are, as a person. just like you can mock democrats, but it's wrong to mock black people. one is jut a chosen social group, the other is your dignity as a person.

i somewhat disagree. i don't believe in gay. When i say i don't believe in it, i don't mean it as an expression of wrongfulness. i mean i LITERALLY don't believe in it. There is no such thing. There are of course there are guys who have no qualms with sticking another guy in the chicken eye, or playing the skin flute, but i really don't think there is a "gay" man alive who wouldn't jump at the chance to have sex with a beautiful woman. Not one. The same goes for women. "i don't like men. i only like other girls... blah, blah, blah".
Yet, you have a closet fiull of prosthetic man parts. Tell it to someone else. TRULY "gay" does not exist.

Understand, i don't say this in mockery. Because i don't believe in "gay" doesn't mean i mock those who claim to be such. i personally don't think ANYONE deserves to be mocked. Except, of course married people in "open relationships". (see post in other thread)

onelongsong

ForestBrain wrote:

Why is it okay for people to mock God and religion, but it's not okay to mock homosexuals?
I just wondered because I see religion mocked constantly, yet somebody says something about a gay person, and people flip out.

because people are ignorant. they fear God and therefore mock those who believe. some people are born jewish. jewish law says if the mother is jewish; the child is jewish.
so those with superiority complexes feel the need to push their beliefs on others and mock believers in the same manner a homophobe mocks the gay.
it's no different.
the difference is that gays will cry about it while believers feel sorry for those who mock and pray for them.

PJammin'

hippiemom wrote:

Are we talking about reproduction or homosexuality? All I said that was homosexuality occurs throughout nature, and is therefore natural. I didn't say it made babies.

if it was so natural, the human race would've been started with two of the same sex. i politely disagree. i just want to add just because i don't agree with the lifestyle doesn't mean that i don't treat homosexuals in a polite way. it's THEIR choice how they live their life.

I want to die in my sleep, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.

i knew that answer was coming. so you wouldn't be afraid of death if you knew you were going to be burned alive in a building like it happened to some people during 9-11?

PJammin'

jeffbr wrote:

Your definition of natural is "if it leads to procreation."?

so then there is no need for male and female.

hippiemom

PJammin' wrote:

if it was so natural, the human race would've been started with two of the same sex. i politely disagree. i just want to add just because i don't agree with the lifestyle doesn't mean that i don't treat homosexuals in a polite way. it's THEIR choice how they live their life.

I just find your apparent definition of "natural" to be a bit odd. If something occurs in nature, how is it not natural? Perhaps not optimal, but certainly natural.

PJammin' wrote:

i knew that answer was coming. so you wouldn't be afraid of death if you knew you were going to be burned alive in a building like it happened to some people during 9-11?

I'd be afraid of the burning, not the dying. Burning hurts.

About 25 years ago, I was beaten within an inch of my life. It took quite a while, so I had plenty of time to contemplate what I was certain was my impending death. WAY before it was over, I was fervently wishing with every fiber of my being that I would die in the next instant. There are plenty of things worse than death ... being fried to a crisp while you're still alive is one of them, I imagine.

jeffbr

PJammin' wrote:

so then there is no need for male and female.

There certainly is a need for procreation. My point is, you said homosexuality isn't natural, so I was trying to ascertain what you mean by "natural". That's why I asked if "natural" == "procreation". Is masturbation natural? That doesn't lead to babies. When an infertile heterosexual couple copulates is that natural? That doesn't lead to babies.

hippiemom

jeffbr wrote:

There certainly is a need for procreation. My point is, you said homosexuality isn't natural, so I was trying to ascertain what you mean by "natural". That's why I asked if "natural" == "procreation". Is masturbation natural? That doesn't lead to babies. When an infertile heterosexual couple copulates is that natural? That doesn't lead to babies.

The whole argument is ridiculous. Scratching your back doesn't lead to babies. A cat lying in the sun doesn't lead to kittens. We could go on and on like this, it's crazy. I can only assume that PJammin' doesn't know the definition of the word "natural." There's nothing unnatural about scratching your back or lying in the sun. It's a great big old synthetic world if everything that doesn't lead to procreation is "unnatural."

soulsinging

PJammin' wrote:

you know the answer to this question. it's about as easy as 1+1.

ummm, no i dont. why should we take the hearsay of what jesus' followers wrote down 40 years after his death as more legit than the hearsay of what david's followers said while he was still alive?

PJammin'

Collin wrote:

This makes no sense, whatsoever. Not to me anyway.

1) you WANT to live.
2) if you're SO SURE about death being like sleep,
3) then what stops you? => see 1

the point is...

you WANT to live meant: NOBODY wants to die in the first place. it's our natural instinct to want to live.

he's never been dead yet he knows it's like sleep. ok. i was just being facetious about him testing his theory. the main point is we ALL want to stay alive.

soulsinging

cornnifer wrote:

i somewhat disagree. i don't believe in gay. When i say i don't believe in it, i don't mean it as an expression of wrongfulness. i mean i LITERALLY don't believe in it. There is no such thing. There are of course there are guys who have no qualms with sticking another guy in the chicken eye, or playing the skin flute, but i really don't think there is a "gay" man alive who wouldn't jump at the chance to have sex with a beautiful woman. Not one. The same goes for women. "i don't like men. i only like other girls... blah, blah, blah".
Yet, you have a closet fiull of prosthetic man parts. Tell it to someone else. TRULY "gay" does not exist.

Understand, i don't say this in mockery. Because i don't believe in "gay" doesn't mean i mock those who claim to be such. i personally don't think ANYONE deserves to be mocked. Except, of course married people in "open relationships". (see post in other thread)

ive seen you say some pretty odd things around here man, but this one takes the cake. it is the single most asinine and ridiculous comment i have ever read in my entire life. gay men would jump at the chance to have sex with a beautiful woman? do you even know a single gay man? cos i know several, and most of them HAVE passed on the chance to have sex with beautiful women, i watched them say no. what could POSSIBLY be the rational basis for this assertion? the fact that you think gay is some myth? let me get this straight... you are saying that a guy who has the chance to sleep with beautiful women, will decide to forgo that, and pretend to be gay, thereby suffering abuse, humiliation, discrimination, and degradation everywhere he goes, force himself to have sex with men instead even though he wants to have sex with women, for the purpose of... what? why would this "decision" be made? im serious, i want to know.

PJammin'

hippiemom wrote:

I just find your apparent definition of "natural" to be a bit odd. If something occurs in nature, how is it not natural? Perhaps not optimal, but certainly natural.

because this is an imperfect world. anyway, i can see we have different point of views and that is fine.

I'd be afraid of the burning, not the dying. Burning hurts.

About 25 years ago, I was beaten within an inch of my life. It took quite a while, so I had plenty of time to contemplate what I was certain was my impending death. WAY before it was over, I was fervently wishing with every fiber of my being that I would die in the next instant. There are plenty of things worse than death ... being fried to a crisp while you're still alive is one of them, I imagine.

i'm very sorry to hear that. that made me sad reading it. i'm VERY GLAD that you're alive and here to still enjoy this board and pearl jam...AND MANY MORE THINGS I'M SURE. *hug*

PJammin'

hippiemom wrote:

I can only assume that PJammin' doesn't know the definition of the word "natural."

i was using the word natural as far as human beings are concerned. anyway, it will go back and forth so i bow out.

onelongsong

PJammin' wrote:

if it was so natural, the human race would've been started with two of the same sex. i politely disagree. i just want to add just because i don't agree with the lifestyle doesn't mean that i don't treat homosexuals in a polite way. it's THEIR choice how they live their life.

people still make fun of gays; just not as publicly as before.

PJammin' wrote:

i knew that answer was coming. so you wouldn't be afraid of death if you knew you were going to be burned alive in a building like it happened to some people during 9-11?

i'm not afraid to die. i welcome death. i've been dead and know what's next.
life is an obsticle to be overcome.

PJammin'

soulsinging wrote:

ummm, no i dont. why should we take the hearsay of what jesus' followers wrote down 40 years after his death as more legit than the hearsay of what david's followers said while he was still alive?

because david karesh was teaching his own laws that went against the word of God. please, don't even compare Jesus and david karesh. it's a joke.

jeffbr

soulsinging wrote:

ive seen you say some pretty odd things around here man, but this one takes the cake. it is the single most asinine and ridiculous comment i have ever read in my entire life. gay men would jump at the chance to have sex with a beautiful woman? do you even know a single gay man? cos i know several, and most of them HAVE passed on the chance to have sex with beautiful women, i watched them say no. what could POSSIBLY be the rational basis for this assertion? the fact that you think gay is some myth? let me get this straight... you are saying that a guy who has the chance to sleep with beautiful women, will decide to forgo that, and pretend to be gay, thereby suffering abuse, humiliation, discrimination, and degradation everywhere he goes, force himself to have sex with men instead even though he wants to have sex with women, for the purpose of... what? why would this "decision" be made? im serious, i want to know.

Well said. For all of the reasons you mentioned, I don't know why anyone would choose to be gay. That's why there are closeted homosexuals. They want to appear hetero so they don't have to be faced with the shit that gets thrown at gays.

And I've never met a gay man who would jump at the chance to have sex with a hot woman. Most gay men I know have plenty of female friends toward whom they have no sexual attraction.

hippiemom

PJammin' wrote:

because this is an imperfect world. anyway, i can see we have different point of views and that is fine.

Fair enough.

PJammin' wrote:

i'm very sorry to hear that. that made me sad reading it. i'm VERY GLAD that you're alive and here to still enjoy this board and pearl jam...AND MANY MORE THINGS I'M SURE. *hug*

Thank you I wasn't trying to start a pity party for myself, I just wanted to try and clarify the difference between being afraid of burning to death or being beaten to death, and being afraid of death itself. Death can look mighty appealing at times.