Interesting thought I had.

catefrances

Ms. Haiku wrote:

I don't think it's ok to mock religion or sexual orientation. Mocking isn't nice. People have opinions on anything, sure, but I think religion is as close as skin, and sexual orientation is, too. People can discuss lifestyles, and it can be discussed respectfully. I bet I can't stand it when someone disses me as a Catholic as much as a gay man can't stand it when someone disses him because he's gay. It reflects poorly on the person doing the mocking.

i agree, mocking isn't nice. but i feel that nothing should be held so much on a pedestal that we lose our sense of humour over it. i don't mean individualistically but more as an institution.

Collin

peeps wrote:

also, i don't think it's up to you to decide if your thought was interesting or not.

This is, by the way, the best reply in this thread!

scw156

PJammin' wrote:

keep trying to disprove God with your own logic. in the end He'll make a fool out of you. like i said, whether you're alive or dead, the truth will finally make itself known. the things that are hidden will finally come to light. you think it bothers me that people mock God or say harsh things about Him? say what you want. believe in what you want. one of us is right and one of us is wrong. time will tell all.

what if you are wrong and you end up being the fool?

i know your response will go something like this: "i am confident that i have chosen the correct path because the word of God and what He says" or something like that. Such devotion on your part.

However, what if someone has as strong of a devotion to another belief and they believe that YOU will be proven a fool? Essentially you are saying that YOUR view is correct because you believe in it more and your belief (God) says that you will be saved and everyone else is a fool. Thats pretty harsh and not very open minded...

What if I don't believe in Hell... if I truly don't believe in it and am devoted then my belief system should negate your belief system in God and prevent me from going to a place you call "Hell".(since in my mind it doesnt exist, just like in yours it DOES exist)

Many of the Christians (more Catholics) that I have encountered in my life are "open minded", as long as you believe in the same thing as them...


essentially it is going to turn into a big game of "i'm rubber, you're glue" with beliefs and we'll see which one sticks... or doesn't... or something

Ms. Haiku

catefrances wrote:

i agree, mocking isn't nice. but i feel that nothing should be held so much on a pedestal that we lose our sense of humour over it. i don't mean individualistically but more as an institution.

I'm not sure where the humour comment applies as I only read the first post, and responded to the first post. Is the first intent of mocking to be humourous or to be hurtful? I think it's to hurt someone. I would suspect that an unkind comment on "all gay men" would hurt an individual as much as a comment on "all Catholics" would hurt me. It may, it may not. Could a person put him or herself and what he/she believes on a pedestal? Sure, why not, no one else may.

catefrances

Ms. Haiku wrote:

I'm not sure where the humour comment applies as I only read the first post, and responded to the first post. Is the first intent of mocking to be humourous or to be hurtful? I think it's to hurt someone. I would suspect that an unkind comment on "all gay men" would hurt an individual as much as a comment on "all Catholics" would hurt me. It may, it may not. Could a person put him or herself and what he/she believes on a pedestal? Sure, why not, no one else may.

yes you're right. i was thinking that perhaps i should have elaborated more and included that mocking is derogatory and cruel in nature. so mocking and humour are incompatible as far as i can see.

chopitdown

catefrances wrote:

no not at all. my idea of compassion is to acknowledge when mistakes have been made and make allowances for the fact that people, myself included, are not perfect. and when a situation arises for the first time to give guidance rather than judgement. however my outlook would change if the 'sinner' refused to see the error of their ways. or even refused to acknowledge what they were doing was wrong. let's face it Mankind's natural curiosity got the better of him in the garden. God should have known that would happen despite him telling adam and eve not to eat the fruit from the tree. children are naturally curious regardless of anything their parents tell them.
i like the idea of a compassionate God because the alternative would be a vengeful God and who wants that?

I could argue that God did give guidance (ten commandments / covenants (adamic, mosaic etc...) and still had interactions with Adam and Eve after "the fall". Mankinds curiosity did get the best of them and they lost the ability to be fully in God's presence. But God did keep the path open to interact with Him. I guess God does give guidance (throughout the OT and NT) but if you don't follow the guidance judgement will occur.

catefrances wrote:

i don't think people get frustrated with God per se. i think when they do, they are getting frustrated at themselves and their own limitations and projecting it onto their God.
i am not under the illusion that Mankind has a limited knowledge. then again i am not a christian.

I agree.

soulsinging

PJammin' wrote:

even if Jesus himself came to you in the flesh you wouldn't believe, so keep disproving.

he did. did you not hear about david koresh? he said he was the second coming of jesus, just like jesus used to say he was the son of god. why do you doubt him?

chopitdown

soulsinging wrote:

he did. did you not hear about david koresh? he said he was the second coming of jesus, just like jesus used to say he was the son of god. why do you doubt him?

that is a burning question

El_Kabong

El_Kabong wrote:

no, take this limited search for 1 example

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2022:28%20;&version=31;51;50;48;15;

Deuteronomy 22:28
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,

28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered,

28 “If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out,

hello? do you not agree changing 'rape' to 'intercourse' to 'seizes and lies w/ her' is a bit different than spanish to english??

PJammin'

Ahnimus wrote:

Because in your terms, God caused us and is therefor responsible for our actions. Besides that God is a creation of ancient fantasy.

the INDIVIDUAL is accountable for their OWN actions. we're not robots. once again, the human being trying to blame something else.

Right, it's obvious that you can't turn gay, so why would you expect someone who is gay to turn straight?

it's obvious you can't turn into a dog, so stop barking. you know as well as i that being gay isn't natural. your talk is nonsense.

You will never know if you are wrong. If you are right you will possibly spend eternity in heaven, or hell. If you are wrong, your entire existence will end, you will have no experience, it will be as if there is nothing, not even time. Kind of like sleeping, more like prior to existence.

kind of like sleeping, huh. then what stops you from putting a gun to your head like kurt cobain? what's that i hear????? OH, because you WANT to live. if you're SO SURE about death being like sleep, then what stops you? just like the wind, you don't know where it comes from or where it goes. you ALSO don't know where you came from and where you go. don't act like you know death is like sleeping. you may be smart in other areas, but in this one you're misled.

PJammin'

catefrances wrote:

compassion would have been to give his children a chance to redeem themselves and allow them to remain in eden. but instead he cast them aside.

He did redeem, and did ONE BETTER. He sent Jesus to die for you. that's not casting ANYONE aside.

PJammin'

Collin wrote:

I don't know about being crucified but I'd die for my family and friends.

God may have compassion but that doesn't mean he shows it.

are you sure you'd die for your friends? you're saying that now because it's not real to you. put in the situation, you might run like the apostle peter and deny Jesus three times.

God doesn't show compassion? i believe you're breathing and enjoying Pearl Jam.

El_Kabong

PJammin' wrote:

He did redeem, and did ONE BETTER. He sent Jesus to die for you. that's not casting ANYONE aside.

hmmm, i thought sending a child to hell b/c they called God Allah or Buddha or Eric Clapton even though they were good ppl would be casting aside

compassion isn't making someone get on their knees and beg for forgiveness for every little thing

Ahnimus

PJammin' wrote:

the INDIVIDUAL is accountable for their OWN actions. we're not robots. once again, the human being trying to blame something else.

We are essentially robots..

it's obvious you can't turn into a dog, so stop barking. you know as well as i that being gay isn't natural. your talk is nonsense.

Actually it is, it happens in lab mice too.

kind of like sleeping, huh. then what stops you from putting a gun to your head like kurt cobain? what's that i hear????? OH, because you WANT to live. if you're SO SURE about death being like sleep, then what stops you? just like the wind, you don't know where it comes from or where it goes. you ALSO don't know where you came from and where you go. don't act like you know death is like sleeping. you may be smart in other areas, but in this one you're misled.

If you get rid of your preconceived notions about death, it's actually really obvious.

Collin

PJammin' wrote:

kind of like sleeping, huh. then what stops you from putting a gun to your head like kurt cobain? what's that i hear????? OH, because you WANT to live. if you're SO SURE about death being like sleep, then what stops you? just like the wind, you don't know where it comes from or where it goes. you ALSO don't know where you came from and where you go. don't act like you know death is like sleeping. you may be smart in other areas, but in this one you're misled.

This makes no sense, whatsoever. Not to me anyway.

1) you WANT to live.
2) if you're SO SURE about death being like sleep,
3) then what stops you? => see 1

Collin

PJammin' wrote:

are you sure you'd die for your friends? you're saying that now because it's not real to you. put in the situation, you might run like the apostle peter and deny Jesus three times.

Yes, I'm sure.

God doesn't show compassion? i believe you're breathing and enjoying Pearl Jam.

You've got God confused with Mike, no worries it's a common mistake.

chopitdown

El_Kabong wrote:

compassion isn't making someone get on their knees and beg for forgiveness for every little thing

nope but compassion could be letting someone ask for forgiveness which is a big difference than making someone ask for forgiveness. God hasn't made anyone ask for forgiveness but he allows everyone to.

hippiemom

PJammin' wrote:

it's obvious you can't turn into a dog, so stop barking. you know as well as i that being gay isn't natural. your talk is nonsense.

YOUR talk is nonsense. People do not exist outside of nature. Homosexuals exist, it is therefore natural. And before you even start on the silliness about how we're corrupted by sin, homosexuals exist in most species ... more nature.

PJammin' wrote:

kind of like sleeping, huh. then what stops you from putting a gun to your head like kurt cobain? what's that i hear????? OH, because you WANT to live. if you're SO SURE about death being like sleep, then what stops you? just like the wind, you don't know where it comes from or where it goes. you ALSO don't know where you came from and where you go. don't act like you know death is like sleeping. you may be smart in other areas, but in this one you're misled.

Wtf? Because someone has things they want to do here, that means they're afraid of death? What the hell kind of logic is that? I imagine Ahnimus doesn't blow his head off because he's having a reasonably good time here and there are experiences he wants to have in this life. He doesn't want to go to sleep yet ... so what?

I want to live, but I'm not the slightest bit afraid to die, and I don't believe in anything remotely close to the biblical heaven.

PJammin'

scw156 wrote:

what if you are wrong and you end up being the fool?

i know your response will go something like this: "i am confident that i have chosen the correct path because the word of God and what He says" or something like that. Such devotion on your part.

i sure don't feel like a fool. was i born a sinner? yes. does the world around me reflect God's Word? yes. did someone need to show us the way to live? yes. by doing the commandments of Jesus does that keep me on the straight and narrow? yes. even as YOU say, what if i'm wrong and i'm the fool? even if i was a gambler, i'd take those chances. i'd rather bet my life on Jesus and eternal life than spending the rest of my time in hell. so you say there's no Jesus, so i lived my life in an honorable way and i didn't sway in the wind like someone who makes no choice. at least i had some guts. that being said, i'm 100% confident i won't be the fool. besides, God gives you blessings that you know you're on the right path. i'm not going to list them because i'll only be mocked.

However, what if someone has as strong of a devotion to another belief and they believe that YOU will be proven a fool? Essentially you are saying that YOUR view is correct because you believe in it more and your belief (God) says that you will be saved and everyone else is a fool. Thats pretty harsh and not very open minded...

that's their right. i'm not saying that i believe in mine more than they believe in theirs. all i'm saying is there is ONE TRUTH. there's not two. someone is right and someone is wrong. i believe i'm right. well, you'll say, they believe THEY'RE right. well, we'll see now, won't we.

What if I don't believe in Hell... if I truly don't believe in it and am devoted then my belief system should negate your belief system in God and prevent me from going to a place you call "Hell".(since in my mind it doesnt exist, just like in yours it DOES exist)

what if you don't believe in jail? it still exists, doesn't it. you can't negate the truth.

Many of the Christians (more Catholics) that I have encountered in my life are "open minded", as long as you believe in the same thing as them...

i don't care if you believe in the same thing as me. all i care about is getting along with people. it's YOUR choice what you believe.

PJammin'

El_Kabong wrote:

compassion isn't making someone get on their knees and beg for forgiveness for every little thing

either you have a lot of guilt or you're serving some other God.