The Israeli government never even considers diplomacy as an option: I don't agree. We did use diplomacy with Saadat, king Husien, Abu mazen & even Arafat. The thing is, there's a problem to use diplomacy while the other side (Hamas or Hezbollah) thinks you do not have the right to exist. It's like the U.S starts negotiating with Bin laden & his organization at the moment.
I agree with the rest of your post.
Err, no.
Which US territory is Bin Laden and Al-Queda illegally occupying and interring 1.45 million AMericans?
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
What a fricking mess! The whole world has gone crazy.
I dread to even think where all this is going to take us all.
Not good at all.
Peace and love to everyone. Stay safe.
Very well but there still is difference, the way the conflict between Israel and the Arabs began is entirely different and there is much more killing and violence on both sides in Israel etc.
It's more of a WAR if you get me...... What South African black people did to fight their opprsseion was beyond fantastic but the history of the middle east conflict and its current state is still not exactly the same as fighting against aparthied.......
Do you sympathise with Isarael?
Much more killing. 16 June 1976 Over 200 school kids gunned down by police in one afternoon, much more killed afterwards. for protesting for the right to be taught in there language. First child to be killed Hector Peterson 13 years old. Look at the image below. http://www.underthesamesun.org/images/hector%20peterson.jpg
That image will be burned into me for my whole life.
Amandla
Even though I know I am, I still cast no shadow.
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
What a sad sad man you are, have you ever lived under oppression. I have, My whole life, Living under the aparthied Goverment of South Africa. I know how it feels to be oppressed. I fought the goverment, I stood up for my rights, nut not once, not once did we target civilians and children to get our point across. SO Palestines, fuck them they get no sympathy from me.
Do you want me to educate you on how not whiter than white Nelson Mandela, the ANC, and Inkatha were in the Apartheid years?
Remember the Church Street bombing? A massacre that Mandela publicly stated, in his autobiography, was an act of terrorism he "signed off" with.
What of the ANC torture and re-education camps in Uganda and Botswana?
In my opionion, what Mandela and others did, whatever they did, was justified. As is the Palestinians. For townships, see Gaza and The West Bank, but throw in alot more barbed wire, fighter jets, economic blockades, nuclear weapons, and the backing of the worlds leading nations.
Then, just maybe, you can see the differences, and the similarities, between the struggle for freedom in South Africa, and the struggle for freedom in Palestine.
Peace.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
The Israeli government never even considers diplomacy as an option: I don't agree. We did use diplomacy with Saadat, king Husien, Abu mazen & even Arafat. The thing is, there's a problem to use diplomacy while the other side (Hamas or Hezbollah) thinks you do not have the right to exist. It's like the U.S starts negotiating with Bin laden & his organization at the moment.
I agree with the rest of your post.
You appear to choose to forget that Israel has been defying international law and behaving like a pariah in the region for the past 38 years by continuing it's illegal military occupation of the West bank and Gaza.
I quote from the above article by the prime minister of the Palestinian National Authority...
"If Israel is prepared to negotiate seriously and fairly, and resolve the core 1948 issues, rather than the secondary ones from 1967, a fair and permanent peace is possible. Based on a hudna (comprehensive cessation of hostilities for an agreed time), the Holy Land still has an opportunity to be a peaceful and stable economic powerhouse for all the Semitic people of the region. If Americans only knew the truth, possibility might become reality."
Do you want me to educate you on how not whiter than white Nelson Mandela, the ANC, and Inkatha were in the Apartheid years?
Remember the Church Street bombing? A massacre that Mandela publicly stated, in his autobiography, was an act of terrorism he "signed off" with.
What of the ANC torture and re-education camps in Uganda and Botswana?
In my opionion, what Mandela and others did, whatever they did, was justified. As is the Palestinians. For townships, see Gaza and The West Bank, but throw in alot more barbed wire, fighter jets, economic blockades, nuclear weapons, and the backing of the worlds leading nations.
Then, just maybe, you can see the differences, and the similarities, between the struggle for freedom in South Africa, and the struggle for freedom in Palestine.
Peace.
Attacking Nelson Mandela are you. Do you have any idea what that man did for my country, and still at the age of 88 is doing for my country. And yes you stated the "terrorist" activities of the Anc. Did you forget that the NP and AWB was using the bible and churches to attack my very exsistance, stating that the bible says that im not human, and holding meetings and gatherings in churches. And when did we ever use suicide bombers to kill children.
You want to talk about barbed wire and fighter jets, We were systematically killed of, Armoured Trucks (http://www.un.org/av/photo/subjects/images/155579.jpg) with barbed spweing out the back, you couldnt walk anywhere without a pass. There was areas that you just could not go into. You had to travel outrageously far and out of the way just to get home. You were attacked by police dogs daily for no reason http://www.contactpressimages.com/portfolios/reininger/main_pix/rein_port1h.jpg, beaten for no reason, killed left in the street for no reason. imprisoned for no reason. Had no clean water, no electricity, no hygiene services.
So please tell me a different story.
Even though I know I am, I still cast no shadow.
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
Yesterday the Hezbollah crossed Israel's northern board via Lebanon, and attacked two patrol jeeps using RPG's deep into Israeli territory. They ended up with killing 3 Israeli's soldiers and kidnapping 2 of them. Israel immediately sent a tank in order to chase the Hezbollah terrorists, but they managed to bomb it and kill yet another 4 Israelis troops & injured 3 more. Israel decided to bomb some roads & bridges in southern Lebanon, in order to stop the terrorists from getting too far away with the Israeli hijacked soldiers (as they try to do many times in the past). It didn't work out. Instead, Hezbollah had started massive missals attack towards large civilian populations in northern parts of Israel. To this point they killed 2 Israeli civilians, injured 90, and caused lots of property damage. They are still shooting while I'm writing this post.
All the massive Israeli attack toward southern Lebanon is a *response* to Hezbollah's deliberate constant shooting towards Israelis civilians since last morning. It has nothing to do with Gaza and the occupied territories in southern Israel. Israel moved out of Lebanon 6 years ago and never went back. During those years Hezbollah kept shooting missals towards Israel from time to time, and even kidnapped & killed 3 Israelis soldiers (the same way they did yesterday). Israel never responded to all of the above, but yesterday it was too much – Hezbollah literally started a deliberate massive attack towards Israeli civilians FOR NO REASON.
Ok, they've just shot 2 missals at my hometown, port city of Haifa, for the very first time in history. That means really bad news for everybody.
Fuck.
I really feel for you, but I still think that the Israelis reaction in Beirut was extreme. This situation has escalated because of their reaction.
far too many civilians have lost their life because of the action taken by Israel. Totally unwarranted.
the biggest difference between apartheid south africa and the middle east is that there isn't the lone world's super power backing the regime ... if white south africa had US backing - apartheid would still be happening ...
NO The biggest difference is that the rest of the world just didnt care and turned a blind eye, they always turn a blind eye when it comes to Africa.
Even though I know I am, I still cast no shadow.
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
You appear to choose to forget that Israel has been defying international law and behaving like a pariah in the region for the past 38 years by continuing it's illegal military occupation of the West bank and Gaza.
I quote from the above article by the prime minister of the Palestinian National Authority...
"If Israel is prepared to negotiate seriously and fairly, and resolve the core 1948 issues, rather than the secondary ones from 1967, a fair and permanent peace is possible. Based on a hudna (comprehensive cessation of hostilities for an agreed time), the Holy Land still has an opportunity to be a peaceful and stable economic powerhouse for all the Semitic people of the region. If Americans only knew the truth, possibility might become reality."
I tend to think that Israel plays a major role in escalating the situaton in the middle east.
it seems they do not understand the meaning of negotiation.
In response to the statement about the United States knowing the truth...well I think that they are well aware of the truth, but they choose not to acknowledge it because of the influential zionists in high places in the U.S. It's more a case of Israel having the power to manipulate U.S foreign policy.
NO The biggest difference is that the rest of the world just didnt care and turned a blind eye, they always turn a blind eye when it comes to Africa.
although i don't disagree that africa has been exploited and ignored far too often ... how did apartheid end? ... without global support? ... and sanctions?
similar sanctions the world have tried to impose on israel but are unable to do so because of the US ... and likely Canada now ...
although i don't disagree that africa has been exploited and ignored far too often ... how did apartheid end? ... without global support? ... and sanctions?
similar sanctions the world have tried to impose on israel but are unable to do so because of the US ... and likely Canada now ...
Ok so sanctions was solely responsible for the demise of Aparthied
Even though I know I am, I still cast no shadow.
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
Ok so sanctions was solely responsible for the demise of Aparthied
Not completely, but they, coupled with (what the Pretoria Government at the time stated as) militant, terrorist activities by the ANC and Inkatha certainly did.
Impose the same UN resolutions and economic sanctions upon Israel, then peace is what we will have.
And please, wil you f*** off with your South African crusade. How dare somebody like you, who claims to have struggled through the atrocities committed against your people, can deny the Palestinians the right to do the same, beggars belief.
FACT - Nelson Mandela was tried and convicted for manslaughter, and should have been murder. He signed orders killing Afrikaner civillians. He may even have committed those atrocities himself before he was imprisoned.
He is not whiter than white, but he was right. As are these poor, coloured, oppressed, beaten, starved and exploited Palestinians.
Get off your blind fucking high horse and defend the oppressed in Palestine, those THAT ARE AS OPPRESSED IF NOT MORE SO THAN YOU AND YOUR COUNTRYMEN!!!
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Ok so sanctions was solely responsible for the demise of Aparthied
no that is not what i'm saying ... but you make it look like global pressure had nothing to do with it ... and that your own "non-violent" struggle overcame the oppression ... that is simply not the case ...
Not completely, but they, coupled with (what the Pretoria Government at the time stated as) militant, terrorist activities by the ANC and Inkatha certainly did.
Impose the same UN resolutions and economic sanctions upon Israel, then peace is what we will have.
And please, wil you f*** off with your South African crusade. How dare somebody like you, who claims to have struggled through the atrocities committed against your people, can deny the Palestinians the right to do the same, beggars belief.
FACT - Nelson Mandela was tried and convicted for manslaughter, and should have been murder. He signed orders killing Afrikaner civillians. He may even have committed those atrocities himself before he was imprisoned.
He is not whiter than white, but he was right. As are these poor, coloured, oppressed, beaten, starved and exploited Palestinians.
Get off your blind fucking high horse and defend the oppressed in Palestine, those THAT ARE AS OPPRESSED IF NOT MORE SO THAN YOU AND YOUR COUNTRYMEN!!!
Fuck you. I will not support anyone that goes out and purposefully kills children. If that is what you want to do then fine, And fuck you, you dont know me, you dont know what I had to go thru. FUCK YOU. While you were playing with you dick as a little kid, I had to fucking dodge police, dogs, bullets, angry boers, trucks, I was beaten, insulted, belittled, ridiculed, embarresed, had to watch as my mother was beaten and there was nothing that I could do, SO FUCK YOU. Go back to your sliver spoon and stick it up your arse.
Even though I know I am, I still cast no shadow.
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
I
In response to the statement about the United States knowing the truth...well I think that they are well aware of the truth, but they choose not to acknowledge it because of the influential zionists in high places in the U.S. It's more a case of Israel having the power to manipulate U.S foreign policy.
I agree. The facts speak for themselves. If you check the list of U.S vetoes at the U.N Security council over the past 50 years you can see that the U.S stands alone in vetoing every single resolution which condemns or criticises Israel for defying international law.
Fuck you. I will not support anyone that goes out and purposefully kills children. If that is what you want to do then fine, And fuck you, you dont know me, you dont know what I had to go thru. FUCK YOU. While you were playing with you dick as a little kid, I had to fucking dodge police, dogs, bullets, angry boers, trucks, I was beaten, insulted, belittled, ridiculed, embarresed, had to watch as my mother was beaten and there was nothing that I could do, SO FUCK YOU. Go back to your sliver spoon and stick it up your arse.
Fuck me indeed. Do it with that silver spoon you suppose I have too, if it pleases.
You know, I read what you went through, and never doubted you did, but how can somebody that went through that not feel just a touch of empathy for the Palestinians? How?
Targets children? DO you watch CNN and FOX in the Cape or something?
Kassam rockets are homemade, and have no guidance systems, unlike those the israelis use.
Targets children? Your in a slanted dream world, honey.
One where Mandela is an Angel, and Hezbollah are the devils. Both use militant means to try and free themselves from oppression and occupation.
what is the difference? Oh yeah, the world got right behind Nelson and Winnie, didnt they, whereas nobody gives a fuck about the Palestinians.
Not even those in the world who suffered under an eerily similar, racist regime.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Your government holds the "Lebanese government" responsible for Hezbollah's actions, when in fact that government has denied responsibility and is clearly not to blame. Your country was bombing innocent Lebanese people before Lebanon's government had even responded to your country's unfair accusations.......
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Israel is bombing airports, seaports, bridges & main roads in Lebanon (stopping our kidnapped soliders from being taken to Iran), NOT civilians. Hezbollah now acts only against israeli civilians - arabs & jaws. And why shouldn't we blame the Lebanese government? If they are alowing this (=to be controled by a group of terrorists and have them in the parlament) then they should take responsibility along with Asad.
Fuck me indeed. Do it with that silver spoon you suppose I have too, if it pleases.
You know, I read what you went through, and never doubted you did, but how can somebody that went through that not feel just a touch of empathy for the Palestinians? How?
Targets children? DO you watch CNN and FOX in the Cape or something?
Kassam rockets are homemade, and have no guidance systems, unlike those the israelis use.
Targets children? Your in a slanted dream world, honey.
One where Mandela is an Angel, and Hezbollah are the devils. Both use militant means to try and free themselves from oppression and occupation.
what is the difference? Oh yeah, the world got right behind Nelson and Winnie, didnt they, whereas nobody gives a fuck about the Palestinians.
Not even those in the world who suffered under an eerily similar, racist regime.
Hezbollah (Lebanon and Syria) has nothing to do with the Palestinians (Gaza), and after we moved out of southern Lebanon in 2000 (thank god) Hezbollah lost the reason to exist as a terror organization.
Not completely, but they, coupled with (what the Pretoria Government at the time stated as) militant, terrorist activities by the ANC and Inkatha certainly did.
Impose the same UN resolutions and economic sanctions upon Israel, then peace is what we will have.
And please, wil you f*** off with your South African crusade. How dare somebody like you, who claims to have struggled through the atrocities committed against your people, can deny the Palestinians the right to do the same, beggars belief.
FACT - Nelson Mandela was tried and convicted for manslaughter, and should have been murder. He signed orders killing Afrikaner civillians. He may even have committed those atrocities himself before he was imprisoned.
He is not whiter than white, but he was right. As are these poor, coloured, oppressed, beaten, starved and exploited Palestinians.
Get off your blind fucking high horse and defend the oppressed in Palestine, those THAT ARE AS OPPRESSED IF NOT MORE SO THAN YOU AND YOUR COUNTRYMEN!!!
Don't you have an appointment with your ego, today?
They're all the same crap. All of them guilty of the same terrorism and violent, murdereous behavior- they blame each other of.
Yippie for our side. Hip-Hip Hooray for their side.
Meanwhile, more innocent men, women and children are slaughtered and blown to pieces.
Wonderful:rolleyes:
Isn't war grand.
I'm disgusted with human beings, in general.
There's no right or wrong in war. I've just noticed that lots of people here connected the Hezbollah with the palestinian conflict, so I wanted to clarify some facts - nothing more.
Yesterday the Hezbollah crossed Israel's northern board via Lebanon, and attacked two patrol jeeps using RPG's deep into Israeli territory. They ended up with killing 3 Israeli's soldiers and kidnapping 2 of them. Israel immediately sent a tank in order to chase the Hezbollah terrorists, but they managed to bomb it and kill yet another 4 Israelis troops & injured 3 more. Israel decided to bomb some roads & bridges in southern Lebanon, in order to stop the terrorists from getting too far away with the Israeli hijacked soldiers (as they try to do many times in the past). It didn't work out. Instead, Hezbollah had started massive missals attack towards large civilian populations in northern parts of Israel. To this point they killed 2 Israeli civilians, injured 90, and caused lots of property damage. They are still shooting while I'm writing this post.
All the massive Israeli attack toward southern Lebanon is a *response* to Hezbollah's deliberate constant shooting towards Israelis civilians since last morning. It has nothing to do with Gaza and the occupied territories in southern Israel. Israel moved out of Lebanon 6 years ago and never went back. During those years Hezbollah kept shooting missals towards Israel from time to time, and even kidnapped & killed 3 Israelis soldiers (the same way they did yesterday). Israel never responded to all of the above, but yesterday it was too much – Hezbollah literally started a deliberate massive attack towards Israeli civilians FOR NO REASON.
Ok, they've just shot 2 missals at my hometown, port city of Haifa, for the very first time in history. That means really bad news for everybody.
Fuck.
Please ignore all this bullshit here and take care of yourself! Stay safe.
I can't reach the high altitude that some of the Jewish contingent seem to occupy on this forum. So why would I care about them. As I say to the Yanks who like to fight wars. Get off the board, and for the Jewish people, get to your alloted land and fight the fight. Fuck, the world coughed it up for you. What are you doing here. Get to the promised land and fight until you win.
Anybody brushed off my land to insert a race I would be a little pissed off too. If they weren't so high on themselves as the "chosen" people they may see why the other side is pissed off.
Rare air indeed!!!
Edit: When they are all dead over there. The world may just be a better place. So the faster they want to meet their maker the better.
it's funny you mention "chosen people" as BOTH sides think that. i don't know the situation that caused this to occur w/ Lebanon, maybe it was the soldiers being kidnapped, maybe it was something the Israel govt. did. I don't believe it is right for anyone that is not in Israel, Palestine, or Lebanon to judge as we can't see things the same way they do. We don't experience the bombings on a nightly occurence. It is completely rediculous for people in this part of the world to say they understand it or know the root causes of these problems.
To the person that originally posted this forum, be safe and take care. I can't imagine being in that situation.
East Troy (The Ice Bowl) 2000
Council Bluffs 2003
St. Paul 2003
East Troy 2003
Boston Vote For Change Tour 2004
Montreal 2005
Denver Night 1 2006
Denver Night 2 2006
There's no right or wrong in war. I've just noticed that lots of people here connected the Hezbollah with the palestinian conflict, so I wanted to clarify some facts - nothing more.
I understand. Thank you for checking in and sharing your experience with us.
Anyone gonna have the nuts to blame Isreal, like we all KNOW you love to do ,to an isreali's face? Wheres your condemnation of Isreal's "zionist blah blah blah" when you get a first hand account??? Lets see how many isreal/usa haters pop in here. Pussies!
Anyway, to shiraz, be safe. Be smart. Be careful. Thoughts are with you and yours. Peace.
I'll have the balls to do it. I don't blame Israel for defending itself from terrorist, but I will blame Israel for attacking civilian targets within Lebenon. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, not the Lebonese government, not the innocent Lebonese citizens. Just as Lebonon was beginning to rebuild itself and it's anti-Syrian government was finally gaining control of the country Israel will set all of their efforts back. If Israel has limited it's attacks to Hizbollah targets I would be 100% behind them bit they didn't. They decided to continue the escalation by attack Beirut and civilian targets. I will always support a countries right to defend itself from terrorism, but when the actions of said country start to constitute terrorismthen they have crossed the line. Not to offend any of our Israeli friends on the Train, but their government has at times been the instigator. While this time it's not the case their desicion to continue uping the anti by attacking Beirut is unexcusable.
To Shiraz I'm sorry you have to deal with the shit that is going on and hope you and your family are safe.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
hang em low, mamasan . I have been reading this thread and I have never really understood dynamics of lebanon, israeli, palestine stuff; this discussion is giving great insights for those of us who are ignorant middle-eastern dynamics.
To Shiraz I'm sorry you have to deal with the shit that is going on and hope you and your family are safe.
me, too...and here's a little song that comes to mind when i think about human ugly...
three dog night/it's not long, so i don't think it's invasive for band widths/whatever the resource of cyberspace is called..
How can people be so heartless
How can people be so cruel
Easy to be hard, easy to be cold
How can people have no feelings
How can they ignore their friends
Easy to be proud, easy to say no
Especially people who care about strangers
Who care about evil and social injustice
Do you only care about bleeding crowd
How about a needing friend, I need a friend
How can people be so heartless
You know I'm hung up on you
Easy to be proud, easy to say no
Especially people who care about strangers
Who care about evil and social injustice
Do you only care about bleeding crowd
How about a needing friend, we all need a friend
How can people be so heartless
How can people be so cruel
Easy to be proud, easy to say no
Easy to be cold, easy to say no
Come, on, easy to give in, easy to say no
Easy to be cold, easy to say no
Much too easy to say no
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
thank you for the perspective. Please dont confuse what alot of people here think of your country and its situation with the opinions of the MAJORITY of americans. You have entered the realm of the lunatic fringe. We stand behind you. Always have, always will. Peace be with you.
LOL, too funny, majority of americans maybe, but a majority of the WORLD think this way, haha you're the man, repeat after me: USA USA USA...
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Comments
Err, no.
Which US territory is Bin Laden and Al-Queda illegally occupying and interring 1.45 million AMericans?
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
I dread to even think where all this is going to take us all.
Not good at all.
Peace and love to everyone. Stay safe.
Much more killing. 16 June 1976 Over 200 school kids gunned down by police in one afternoon, much more killed afterwards. for protesting for the right to be taught in there language. First child to be killed Hector Peterson 13 years old. Look at the image below.
http://www.underthesamesun.org/images/hector%20peterson.jpg
That image will be burned into me for my whole life.
Amandla
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
Do you want me to educate you on how not whiter than white Nelson Mandela, the ANC, and Inkatha were in the Apartheid years?
Remember the Church Street bombing? A massacre that Mandela publicly stated, in his autobiography, was an act of terrorism he "signed off" with.
What of the ANC torture and re-education camps in Uganda and Botswana?
In my opionion, what Mandela and others did, whatever they did, was justified. As is the Palestinians. For townships, see Gaza and The West Bank, but throw in alot more barbed wire, fighter jets, economic blockades, nuclear weapons, and the backing of the worlds leading nations.
Then, just maybe, you can see the differences, and the similarities, between the struggle for freedom in South Africa, and the struggle for freedom in Palestine.
Peace.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
You appear to choose to forget that Israel has been defying international law and behaving like a pariah in the region for the past 38 years by continuing it's illegal military occupation of the West bank and Gaza.
I quote from the above article by the prime minister of the Palestinian National Authority...
"If Israel is prepared to negotiate seriously and fairly, and resolve the core 1948 issues, rather than the secondary ones from 1967, a fair and permanent peace is possible. Based on a hudna (comprehensive cessation of hostilities for an agreed time), the Holy Land still has an opportunity to be a peaceful and stable economic powerhouse for all the Semitic people of the region. If Americans only knew the truth, possibility might become reality."
Attacking Nelson Mandela are you. Do you have any idea what that man did for my country, and still at the age of 88 is doing for my country. And yes you stated the "terrorist" activities of the Anc. Did you forget that the NP and AWB was using the bible and churches to attack my very exsistance, stating that the bible says that im not human, and holding meetings and gatherings in churches. And when did we ever use suicide bombers to kill children.
You want to talk about barbed wire and fighter jets, We were systematically killed of, Armoured Trucks (http://www.un.org/av/photo/subjects/images/155579.jpg) with barbed spweing out the back, you couldnt walk anywhere without a pass. There was areas that you just could not go into. You had to travel outrageously far and out of the way just to get home. You were attacked by police dogs daily for no reason http://www.contactpressimages.com/portfolios/reininger/main_pix/rein_port1h.jpg, beaten for no reason, killed left in the street for no reason. imprisoned for no reason. Had no clean water, no electricity, no hygiene services.
So please tell me a different story.
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
Nelson Rolihlahla MANDELA
http://www.anc.org.za/icons/people/nelsonm.jpg
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
I really feel for you, but I still think that the Israelis reaction in Beirut was extreme. This situation has escalated because of their reaction.
far too many civilians have lost their life because of the action taken by Israel. Totally unwarranted.
the biggest difference between apartheid south africa and the middle east is that there isn't the lone world's super power backing the regime ... if white south africa had US backing - apartheid would still be happening ...
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
I tend to think that Israel plays a major role in escalating the situaton in the middle east.
it seems they do not understand the meaning of negotiation.
In response to the statement about the United States knowing the truth...well I think that they are well aware of the truth, but they choose not to acknowledge it because of the influential zionists in high places in the U.S. It's more a case of Israel having the power to manipulate U.S foreign policy.
although i don't disagree that africa has been exploited and ignored far too often ... how did apartheid end? ... without global support? ... and sanctions?
similar sanctions the world have tried to impose on israel but are unable to do so because of the US ... and likely Canada now ...
Ok so sanctions was solely responsible for the demise of Aparthied
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
Not completely, but they, coupled with (what the Pretoria Government at the time stated as) militant, terrorist activities by the ANC and Inkatha certainly did.
Impose the same UN resolutions and economic sanctions upon Israel, then peace is what we will have.
And please, wil you f*** off with your South African crusade. How dare somebody like you, who claims to have struggled through the atrocities committed against your people, can deny the Palestinians the right to do the same, beggars belief.
FACT - Nelson Mandela was tried and convicted for manslaughter, and should have been murder. He signed orders killing Afrikaner civillians. He may even have committed those atrocities himself before he was imprisoned.
He is not whiter than white, but he was right. As are these poor, coloured, oppressed, beaten, starved and exploited Palestinians.
Get off your blind fucking high horse and defend the oppressed in Palestine, those THAT ARE AS OPPRESSED IF NOT MORE SO THAN YOU AND YOUR COUNTRYMEN!!!
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
no that is not what i'm saying ... but you make it look like global pressure had nothing to do with it ... and that your own "non-violent" struggle overcame the oppression ... that is simply not the case ...
Fuck you. I will not support anyone that goes out and purposefully kills children. If that is what you want to do then fine, And fuck you, you dont know me, you dont know what I had to go thru. FUCK YOU. While you were playing with you dick as a little kid, I had to fucking dodge police, dogs, bullets, angry boers, trucks, I was beaten, insulted, belittled, ridiculed, embarresed, had to watch as my mother was beaten and there was nothing that I could do, SO FUCK YOU. Go back to your sliver spoon and stick it up your arse.
"We'd rather challenge our fans and make them listen to our songs than give them something that's easy to digest. There is a lot of music out there that is very easy to digest but we never wanted to be part of it."
I agree. The facts speak for themselves. If you check the list of U.S vetoes at the U.N Security council over the past 50 years you can see that the U.S stands alone in vetoing every single resolution which condemns or criticises Israel for defying international law.
Fuck me indeed. Do it with that silver spoon you suppose I have too, if it pleases.
You know, I read what you went through, and never doubted you did, but how can somebody that went through that not feel just a touch of empathy for the Palestinians? How?
Targets children? DO you watch CNN and FOX in the Cape or something?
Kassam rockets are homemade, and have no guidance systems, unlike those the israelis use.
Targets children? Your in a slanted dream world, honey.
One where Mandela is an Angel, and Hezbollah are the devils. Both use militant means to try and free themselves from oppression and occupation.
what is the difference? Oh yeah, the world got right behind Nelson and Winnie, didnt they, whereas nobody gives a fuck about the Palestinians.
Not even those in the world who suffered under an eerily similar, racist regime.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Israel is bombing airports, seaports, bridges & main roads in Lebanon (stopping our kidnapped soliders from being taken to Iran), NOT civilians. Hezbollah now acts only against israeli civilians - arabs & jaws. And why shouldn't we blame the Lebanese government? If they are alowing this (=to be controled by a group of terrorists and have them in the parlament) then they should take responsibility along with Asad.
But I have to say it.
This is a completely sad situation.
In the past and present, Israel is just as guilty of horrible war crimes, as anyone else.
Does anyone even remember who started all this crap in the Middle East? Is there really only one side to blame? Who's right? Who's wrong?
Who the fuck knows.
Muslims...Palestine......Israel......America........Iran.....
They're all the same crap. All of them guilty of the same terrorism and violent, murdereous behavior- they blame each other of.
Yippie for our side. Hip-Hip Hooray for their side.
Meanwhile, more innocent men, women and children are slaughtered and blown to pieces.
Wonderful:rolleyes:
Isn't war grand.
I'm disgusted with human beings, in general.
Hezbollah (Lebanon and Syria) has nothing to do with the Palestinians (Gaza), and after we moved out of southern Lebanon in 2000 (thank god) Hezbollah lost the reason to exist as a terror organization.
Don't you have an appointment with your ego, today?
Be safe and God bless. I pray for your safety and pray that our childrens children never have to deal with this.
There's no right or wrong in war. I've just noticed that lots of people here connected the Hezbollah with the palestinian conflict, so I wanted to clarify some facts - nothing more.
Please ignore all this bullshit here and take care of yourself! Stay safe.
it's funny you mention "chosen people" as BOTH sides think that. i don't know the situation that caused this to occur w/ Lebanon, maybe it was the soldiers being kidnapped, maybe it was something the Israel govt. did. I don't believe it is right for anyone that is not in Israel, Palestine, or Lebanon to judge as we can't see things the same way they do. We don't experience the bombings on a nightly occurence. It is completely rediculous for people in this part of the world to say they understand it or know the root causes of these problems.
To the person that originally posted this forum, be safe and take care. I can't imagine being in that situation.
Council Bluffs 2003
St. Paul 2003
East Troy 2003
Boston Vote For Change Tour 2004
Montreal 2005
Denver Night 1 2006
Denver Night 2 2006
I understand. Thank you for checking in and sharing your experience with us.
I appreciate your posts and your response.
Take care of yourself and stay safe.
I'll have the balls to do it. I don't blame Israel for defending itself from terrorist, but I will blame Israel for attacking civilian targets within Lebenon. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, not the Lebonese government, not the innocent Lebonese citizens. Just as Lebonon was beginning to rebuild itself and it's anti-Syrian government was finally gaining control of the country Israel will set all of their efforts back. If Israel has limited it's attacks to Hizbollah targets I would be 100% behind them bit they didn't. They decided to continue the escalation by attack Beirut and civilian targets. I will always support a countries right to defend itself from terrorism, but when the actions of said country start to constitute terrorismthen they have crossed the line. Not to offend any of our Israeli friends on the Train, but their government has at times been the instigator. While this time it's not the case their desicion to continue uping the anti by attacking Beirut is unexcusable.
To Shiraz I'm sorry you have to deal with the shit that is going on and hope you and your family are safe.
me, too...and here's a little song that comes to mind when i think about human ugly...
three dog night/it's not long, so i don't think it's invasive for band widths/whatever the resource of cyberspace is called..
How can people be so heartless
How can people be so cruel
Easy to be hard, easy to be cold
How can people have no feelings
How can they ignore their friends
Easy to be proud, easy to say no
Especially people who care about strangers
Who care about evil and social injustice
Do you only care about bleeding crowd
How about a needing friend, I need a friend
How can people be so heartless
You know I'm hung up on you
Easy to be proud, easy to say no
Especially people who care about strangers
Who care about evil and social injustice
Do you only care about bleeding crowd
How about a needing friend, we all need a friend
How can people be so heartless
How can people be so cruel
Easy to be proud, easy to say no
Easy to be cold, easy to say no
Come, on, easy to give in, easy to say no
Easy to be cold, easy to say no
Much too easy to say no
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
LOL, too funny, majority of americans maybe, but a majority of the WORLD think this way, haha you're the man, repeat after me: USA USA USA...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau