you still dont get it. first of all, I certainly am not asking for anything to be outlawed.
second of all
40-50% of kids will have divorced parents. so I dont think this is a big issue with kids making fun of other kids.
bad clothes? can be changed
stupid haircut? it will grow back
big ears? yup, poor kid will be made fun of.
but having a bunch of the kid's peers see his dad and dad hugging at a tee ball game?
chances are, the kid, is the only one who has gay parents. chances are he will be made fun of. probably brutally. homophobia is huge in this country and many straight middle age dads will direct or indirectly teach their kids that gays arent "normal".
See, I don't see the difference in any of this bullying.
"But having a bunch of the kid's peers see his dad and dad hugging at a tee ball game?" Chances are, the kid will grow up and leave all those ignorant jackasses behind - just like I did when I was bullied in high school (brutally, and not for having gay parents).
what is the point of all this? it just shows teens will be teens and will always find ways to criticize the different or seek out the similar. if kids are becoming more and more individual, wouldnt that mean gay parents matter less and less? times are changing. most people dont give a fuck about who your parents are anymore. we dont know if they're single, divorced, married, gay, child molestors, politicians, or what. and mostly it's not an issue.
the point is that today; the wierder or more outlandish you are; the more you fit in. blacks still don't have total equality because of generations of oppression. it will take a couple more generations of teaching equality to the populous before the stigma is removed.
did i mention i don't care?
All this discussion of causality is really irrelevant concering the former discussion on "Free-Will".
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
but having a bunch of the kid's peers see his dad and dad hugging at a tee ball game?
chances are, the kid, is the only one who has gay parents. chances are he will be made fun of. probably brutally. homophobia is huge in this country and many straight middle age dads will direct or indirectly teach their kids that gays arent "normal".
so instead of trying to change people's minds by exposing them to it, forcing them to confront it, and showing them just how normal it can be, we should just accept their prejudices and let them continue to hold them? by that logic, we should never have bother overturning that separate but equal stuff. i mean, racism was huge in this country and many white middle age dads taught their kids that blacks arent as good. no need to have to rock their boat by being the nigger-loving family in the neighborhood.
If there is one thing I'm certain of: You will never convince Mr. Bergis being homosexual or black is ok.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
so instead of trying to change people's minds by exposing them to it, forcing them to confront it, and showing them just how normal it can be, we should just accept their prejudices and let them continue to hold them? by that logic, we should never have bother overturning that separate but equal stuff. i mean, racism was huge in this country and many white middle age dads taught their kids that blacks arent as good. no need to have to rock their boat by being the nigger-loving family in the neighborhood.
dont shoot the messenger. I'm simply stated what I see as a problem. I'm all for gay's raising kids.
Hands up if you were raised by two women? I think my Mum and my Nana did an excellent job and I'm sure I'm not the only one who was in this situation. Who cares who raises you, (two Dads, two Mum's, a Mum & a Dad, your Aunty, your brother, your foster parents, the whole bloody village!), as long as they do a good job. Two people of any sex wanting to be parents and going through all the trials and tribulations of becoming and being parents has got to be a better for a kid than boy screws girl, she get's pregnant, he can't cope, she can't abort, he pisses off, she struggles on alone, he comes back, she lets him, he's a drunken abuser or is just plain disinterested! WHATEVER!!! You need a licence to drive a car but any f***er can be a parent!!! :mad: Just because you have a mum and a dad who are married and fulfil all the "normal" "natural" "biblical" "traditional" requirements of "what nature intended" :mad: doesn't mean you are going to be any better off as a child. If gays, lesbians, infertile, heterosexual couples, single women, single men, want to be parents and they are well educated in their choice then they get my support. Hell, I'd support a monkey over some of the morons I've seen in straight married relationships!!!
*standing ovation*
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
so instead of trying to change people's minds by exposing them to it, forcing them to confront it, and showing them just how normal it can be, we should just accept their prejudices and let them continue to hold them? by that logic, we should never have bother overturning that separate but equal stuff. i mean, racism was huge in this country and many white middle age dads taught their kids that blacks arent as good. no need to have to rock their boat by being the nigger-loving family in the neighborhood.
personally; i wouldn't want my kids to be the ones beat up until this transition is complete.
dont shoot the messenger. I'm simply stated what I see as a problem. I'm all for gay's raising kids.
sure it might make a few waves in various places, but i doubt it would be a huge cultural upheaval. those guys making fun of the kid would change their tune when the kid is getting all the girls becos he's better dressed than all of them put together due to his parents' sense of style. plus, girls love gay men and flock to them, so they'd be all over hanging out with the kid and his parents. he would be a stone pimp and then those guys would be begging him to toss a few girls their way.
My recommendation is for everyone to pick up a book on Dev. Psych, instead of speaking from personal experience.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
but it is changing...exponentially so. Look at how progressive (Liberal) we are now compared to just a generation ago...we now have openly gay actors, politicians, police officers.....soldiers. Children now will see more and more how this isn't a problem and we'll move forward as a society. Oh and other western coutries...are even further along.
awesome. but I think it going to take longer then you think.. I hope I'm wrong
sure it might make a few waves in various places, but i doubt it would be a huge cultural upheaval. those guys making fun of the kid would change their tune when the kid is getting all the girls becos he's better dressed than all of them put together due to his parents' sense of style. plus, girls love gay men and flock to them, so they'd be all over hanging out with the kid and his parents. he would be a stone pimp and then those guys would be begging him to toss a few girls their way.
personally; i wouldn't want my kids to be the ones beat up until this transition is complete.
do you have kids? i sure hope they are completely mainstream, wealthy, and beautiful then.
i think people underestimate the impact of socioeconomic status with kids and teasing. kids can be so cruel to others that are more poor. and i just can't believe that this argument has come down to that kids shouldn't grow up in a gay household because of teasing.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Hands up if you were raised by two women? I think my Mum and my Nana did an excellent job and I'm sure I'm not the only one who was in this situation. Who cares who raises you, (two Dads, two Mum's, a Mum & a Dad, your Aunty, your brother, your foster parents, the whole bloody village!), as long as they do a good job. Two people of any sex wanting to be parents and going through all the trials and tribulations of becoming and being parents has got to be a better for a kid than boy screws girl, she get's pregnant, he can't cope, she can't abort, he pisses off, she struggles on alone, he comes back, she lets him, he's a drunken abuser or is just plain disinterested! WHATEVER!!! You need a licence to drive a car but any f***er can be a parent!!! :mad: Just because you have a mum and a dad who are married and fulfil all the "normal" "natural" "biblical" "traditional" requirements of "what nature intended" :mad: doesn't mean you are going to be any better off as a child. If gays, lesbians, infertile, heterosexual couples, single women, single men, want to be parents and they are well educated in their choice then they get my support. Hell, I'd support a monkey over some of the morons I've seen in straight married relationships!!!
i was raised mostly by my mum and grand. dad worked 15 hours a day. i still say most people shouldn't be allowed to raise kids; no matter what their orientation. just look at the world. bloody hell is what it is.
do you have kids? i sure hope they are completely mainstream, wealthy, and beautiful then.
i think people underestimate the impact of socioeconomic status with kids and teasing. kids can be so cruel to others that are more poor. and i just can't believe that this argument has come down to that kids shouldn't grow up in a gay household because of teasing.
i have my kids; adopted kids; and the abused kids i work with. and every one of them is beautiful in my eyes.
do you have kids? i sure hope they are completely mainstream, wealthy, and beautiful then.
i think people underestimate the impact of socioeconomic status with kids and teasing. kids can be so cruel to others that are more poor. and i just can't believe that this argument has come down to that kids shouldn't grow up in a gay household because of teasing.
This whole thread is the back and forth bullshit of people speaking out of their asses if you ask me. No one acknowledges statistical data, hard research or anything like that.
Their opinions stem only from personal experience. Which gives an idea of their cultures values and their upbringing, but little in terms of reality.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
This whole thread is the back and forth bullshit of people speaking out of their asses if you ask me. No one acknowledges statistical data, hard research or anything like that.
Their opinions stem only from personal experience. Which gives an idea of their cultures values and their upbringing, but little in terms of reality.
its a message board dude. a Pearl Jam Message Board. people are allowed opinions without quoting some 17th century philosopher
its a message board dude. a Pearl Jam Message Board. people are allowed opinions without quoting some 1700 century philosopher
Why would anyone quote a 16th century philosopher?
Why not some hard research from the last ten years?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't think it's very funny. I mean you guys are trying to understand something you simply can't understand, because you know nothing about it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
This whole thread is the back and forth bullshit of people speaking out of their asses if you ask me. No one acknowledges statistical data, hard research or anything like that.
Their opinions stem only from personal experience. Which gives an idea of their cultures values and their upbringing, but little in terms of reality.
oh, did you need some attention?
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Furthermore, you are trying to say that there are causal determinents to children with gay parents, but can't imagine that those parents are gay because of determinents in their life.
Some how, the child is a mere machine, but the parents exist beyond reality.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
know nothing about what exactly? homosexuality? possible pros and cons of raising a child in that environment?
common sense and opinions can be formed without hard statistics
My statistics were taken from a fucking TEXTBOOK on DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGY.
It explains quite in-depth possible causes and effects, not everything is with certainty though as you so adamently predict.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
You actually said 1700 century, which is a long time from now.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm right they're wrong. FUCK your text books. hows that?
Well that certainly shows your prejudice.
Look, I used to think Homosexuality was all personal choice and immoral, You can easily find threads where I made similar statements. Since I've educated myself, I no longer see the linearity that you do.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't think it's very funny. I mean you guys are trying to understand something you simply can't understand, because you know nothing about it.
i guess most of us don't catalog the things we see and read so that when challenged; we can go back and explain why we have the opinions we have.
i saw a story on the news where parents complained about a gay student showering with thier kids. another story was about the students complaining about having to shower with a gay girl stating that she is viewing them sexually and compared it to showering with a boy. i can't say when or where it was broadcast because i didn't know this thread would come up some time in the future.
Comments
"But having a bunch of the kid's peers see his dad and dad hugging at a tee ball game?" Chances are, the kid will grow up and leave all those ignorant jackasses behind - just like I did when I was bullied in high school (brutally, and not for having gay parents).
the point is that today; the wierder or more outlandish you are; the more you fit in. blacks still don't have total equality because of generations of oppression. it will take a couple more generations of teaching equality to the populous before the stigma is removed.
did i mention i don't care?
so instead of trying to change people's minds by exposing them to it, forcing them to confront it, and showing them just how normal it can be, we should just accept their prejudices and let them continue to hold them? by that logic, we should never have bother overturning that separate but equal stuff. i mean, racism was huge in this country and many white middle age dads taught their kids that blacks arent as good. no need to have to rock their boat by being the nigger-loving family in the neighborhood.
dont shoot the messenger. I'm simply stated what I see as a problem. I'm all for gay's raising kids.
*standing ovation*
cross the river to the eastside
personally; i wouldn't want my kids to be the ones beat up until this transition is complete.
sure it might make a few waves in various places, but i doubt it would be a huge cultural upheaval. those guys making fun of the kid would change their tune when the kid is getting all the girls becos he's better dressed than all of them put together due to his parents' sense of style. plus, girls love gay men and flock to them, so they'd be all over hanging out with the kid and his parents. he would be a stone pimp and then those guys would be begging him to toss a few girls their way.
awesome. but I think it going to take longer then you think.. I hope I'm wrong
do you have kids? i sure hope they are completely mainstream, wealthy, and beautiful then.
i think people underestimate the impact of socioeconomic status with kids and teasing. kids can be so cruel to others that are more poor. and i just can't believe that this argument has come down to that kids shouldn't grow up in a gay household because of teasing.
cross the river to the eastside
i was raised mostly by my mum and grand. dad worked 15 hours a day. i still say most people shouldn't be allowed to raise kids; no matter what their orientation. just look at the world. bloody hell is what it is.
i have my kids; adopted kids; and the abused kids i work with. and every one of them is beautiful in my eyes.
This whole thread is the back and forth bullshit of people speaking out of their asses if you ask me. No one acknowledges statistical data, hard research or anything like that.
Their opinions stem only from personal experience. Which gives an idea of their cultures values and their upbringing, but little in terms of reality.
its a message board dude. a Pearl Jam Message Board. people are allowed opinions without quoting some 17th century philosopher
Why would anyone quote a 16th century philosopher?
Why not some hard research from the last ten years?
cool post, man. i'm still laughing.
oh, did you need some attention?
cross the river to the eastside
Some how, the child is a mere machine, but the parents exist beyond reality.
free free to use your google stats at anytime.
know nothing about what exactly? homosexuality? possible pros and cons of raising a child in that environment?
common sense and opinions can be formed without hard statistics
I said 17th century. BIG difference
people can have there own opinions.
My statistics were taken from a fucking TEXTBOOK on DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGY.
It explains quite in-depth possible causes and effects, not everything is with certainty though as you so adamently predict.
You actually said 1700 century, which is a long time from now.
I'm right they're wrong. FUCK your text books. hows that?
Well that certainly shows your prejudice.
Look, I used to think Homosexuality was all personal choice and immoral, You can easily find threads where I made similar statements. Since I've educated myself, I no longer see the linearity that you do.
i guess most of us don't catalog the things we see and read so that when challenged; we can go back and explain why we have the opinions we have.
i saw a story on the news where parents complained about a gay student showering with thier kids. another story was about the students complaining about having to shower with a gay girl stating that she is viewing them sexually and compared it to showering with a boy. i can't say when or where it was broadcast because i didn't know this thread would come up some time in the future.