Ha!!! I've been reading, you seem more like a Caramello Koala to me!
That's not an insult btw. Carmello Koala's are hard on the outside, soft on the inside.
Shit, and here I thought I evolved from a damn ape. Things are much clearer now!
Thanks
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
do you know more about how that happens--the exposure to DES and whatnot?
Yea, some digested substances are small enough to traverse the placenta, which is the babies connection to the mother. So drugs like DES go through the placenta to the baby. It's called a teratogen. Things like Vit C (excess amounts), Cocain, Alcohol, Tobacco, and so on, all teratogens.
EDIT: I forgot some important ones, German Measels, Hormone treatment and Influenza. I'm sure there are more, look up Teratogens online for a better listing.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i guess i've never really grown up. i carry too much hurt with me. when i learn to forget it only comes back to slap me in the face when it happens again.
Well don't give up! Sooner or later somebody won't. Well that's my experience anyway. I guess the best thing I learnt is to not let the f***ers stop me from trying to find the good folk. And I still carry the hurt but I don't let it dictate my life because that just gives the perpertrators of the hurt more power. ie it allows them to continue to hurt you. Be f***ed I'm giving those a**holes any more power!!!
Anyhoo hope you'll be my friend anyway
BTW sorry I took so long to respond. Have I mentioned that dial-up sucks???!!!
to be honest; i think all children are abused in one way or another. a loving parent can loose their temper. a loving parent can loose track of what's important when they have a bad day at work. i've seen what i thought were perfect parents call their child a f'n idiot. that's where my 90% opinion comes from. people don't see what goes on behind closed doors; but the kids tell.
Getting preoccupied with work from time to time, or the occasional stupid outburst, does not constitute child abuse, anymore than occasional misbehavior means you have a bad kid on your hands. That's human imperfection, and you've done it too. Everyone has. The overall environment that you provide the majority of the time is what matters. Kids know you're not perfect. If you screw up, admit it and apologize and they'll forgive you, just as you forgive them. Unless it's a constant cycle, it's not a big deal.
I absolutely agree that there are a LOT of unfit parents out there, but it's nowhere near 90%.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Shit, and here I thought I evolved from a damn ape.
Well we all did, but some of us have developed intimadating exteriors in order to protect our softer, vunerable inner selves. (Shit, can't believe I said that!)
So going off subject completely, I would be very interested to hear your views (not statistics) on the stem cell debate and can you please go very gently? My brain is a fragile thing. (Think Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz)
Getting preoccupied with work from time to time, or the occasional stupid outburst, does not constitute child abuse, anymore than occasional misbehavior means you have a bad kid on your hands. That's human imperfection, and you've done it too. Everyone has. The overall environment that you provide the majority of the time is what matters. Kids know you're not perfect. If you screw up, admit it and apologize and they'll forgive you, just as you forgive them. Unless it's a constant cycle, it's not a big deal.
I absolutely agree that there are a LOT of unfit parents out there, but it's nowhere near 90%.
i did do it and didn't find out the full ramifications until i started working with kids. a parent calling a kid a f'n idoit or worthless stays with them longer than most think.
Well we all did, but some of us have developed intimadating exteriors in order to protect our softer, vunerable inner selves. (Shit, can't believe I said that!)
Thought they might be!!!
So going off subject completely, I would be very interested to hear your views (not statistics) on the stem cell debate and can you please go very gently? My brain is a fragile thing. (Think Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz)
when someone finds a part ape; part human; i may believe. we have fossils from mars yet no missing link. DNA has linked every person with a black man in africa yet no reasonable links have ever been made between man and ape. only theories.
sorry i changed the subject but you started it.
Well don't give up! Sooner or later somebody won't. Well that's my experience anyway. I guess the best thing I learnt is to not let the f***ers stop me from trying to find the good folk. And I still carry the hurt but I don't let it dictate my life because that just gives the perpertrators of the hurt more power. ie it allows them to continue to hurt you. Be f***ed I'm giving those a**holes any more power!!!
Anyhoo hope you'll be my friend anyway
BTW sorry I took so long to respond. Have I mentioned that dial-up sucks???!!!
i don't befriend many people but i've never lost a friend either. looks like we're friends for life now.
Well we all did, but some of us have developed intimadating exteriors in order to protect our softer, vunerable inner selves. (Shit, can't believe I said that!)
Thought they might be!!!
So going off subject completely, I would be very interested to hear your views (not statistics) on the stem cell debate and can you please go very gently? My brain is a fragile thing. (Think Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz)
On stem-cell research?
Well, personally, any fetus or embryo that has already been aborted should by all means be used for stem-cell research.
I'm not opposed to embryonic stem-cell research where the embryo is cultured in the lab either.
Stem-cell research will help us in many significant ways, and although it may be debatable ethically, I think it's defeatus to completely abort the research.
EDIT: Umm, no pun intended.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
well, if homosexuality is a disease(which i personally don't believe it is) it's obviously not contagious. otherwise the whole world would be gay..... and way better dressed.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i don't befriend many people but i've never lost a friend either. looks like we're friends for life now.
Suits me! Happy to know you and call you my friend. I'm very good at reciprocating loyalty myself so I guess you're stuck with me!
As for the bizo about the first black man and the apes I doubt very much we will ever know. I think I stick to the ape theory as opposed to the "creation" theory but I suppose I really hold that we started as cell life and probably crawled out of the swamps or the oceans. (Jumping forward to apes from that sits better in my mind!) Look all I really know is that I came from some bloke back in England and a few folk from Ireland and Poland. That's enough for me. Really I have no idea how I came to be here!!!!
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Stem-cell research will help us in many significant ways, and although it may be debatable ethically, I think it's defeatus to completely abort the research.
I think it's defeatist to completely abort the research?
So why do you think that so many people are opposed to it on ethical grounds. The reason I ask is because it seems (and I could be very wrong) that the majority of Americans don't support it (or is that just because your voices have been hijacked by the religious right?) and up until this week I though we Aussies would be following suit (because most of us have been completely hijacked by the religious element in our current government) but amazingly they have just passed the debate through both houses in favor of the research.
I think it's defeatist to completely abort the research?
Very funny
So why do you think that so many people are opposed to it on ethical grounds. The reason I ask is because it seems (and I could be very wrong) that the majority of Americans don't support it (or is that just because your voices have been hijacked by the religious right?) and up until this week I though we Aussies would be following suit (because most of us have been completely hijacked by the religious element in our current government) but amazingly they have just passed the debate through both houses in favor of the research.
but without the support of either the PM john howard or the leader of the opposition kevin rudd. i think that's what i heard this morning.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
but without the support of either the PM john howard or the leader of the opposition kevin rudd. i think that's what i heard this morning.
That's correct catefrances both of them voted against it and disappointingly so did Peter Garrett. (I'm finding it harder and harder to reconcile the man we now see with the man I thought I knew)
Anyway we've still got a long way to go as the ammendments to the legislation won't be finalized until next year and I'm a firm believer in there's many a slip between cup and lip.
I think it's defeatist to completely abort the research?
Very funny
So why do you think that so many people are opposed to it on ethical grounds. The reason I ask is because it seems (and I could be very wrong) that the majority of Americans don't support it (or is that just because your voices have been hijacked by the religious right?) and up until this week I though we Aussies would be following suit (because most of us have been completely hijacked by the religious element in our current government) but amazingly they have just passed the debate through both houses in favor of the research.
The majority of Americans DO support it. Unfortunately, they often vote for politicians who are opposed to it, because they base their vote on other issues. But in the one state where it was on the ballot this year (Missouri, a conservative state), it was approved.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
That's correct catefrances both of them voted against it and disappointingly so did Peter Garrett. (I'm finding it harder and harder to reconcile the man we now see with the man I thought I knew)
Anyway we've still got a long way to go as the ammendments to the legislation won't be finalized until next year and I'm a firm believer in there's many a slip between cup and lip.
peter garrett lost me the minute he sold his soul to the devil that is the establishment. i do not believe you can rot the system from the inside. or exact any real change if you are kowtowing to party lines that are designed to censure original thought and practice. quite honestly i believe the Labor party is their own worst enemy.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i did do it and didn't find out the full ramifications until i started working with kids. a parent calling a kid a f'n idoit or worthless stays with them longer than most think.
I think it depends on a lot of other factors. Obviously, it's not something that anyone wants to hear, but if it happens with any frequency at all, or if the parent doesn't apologize later, that makes a huge difference. There is not one person alive over the age of about four that hasn't said something that they regretted before they were even finished saying it. Kids aren't stupid, they can understand that if you admit your mistake. I see the bigger problem as being how few parents are willing to admit to their kids that they were wrong.
I'm certainly not condoning verbal abuse, I think it's at least as damaging as physical abuse. I'm just saying that a once-in-a-blue-moon hurtful remark in an otherwise loving household doesn't constitute abuse.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
peter garrett lost me the minute he sold his soul to the devil that is the establishment.
Me too! It left me completely reeling because it negated all that I thought he stood for! And I had been such a fan for such a long time. It was completely out of left field as far as I could see and makes it extremely difficult to listen to Midnight oil anymore which is like excising a greater part of my soul.
i do not believe you can rot the system from the inside. or exact any real change if you are kowtowing to party lines that are designed to censure original thought and practice.
I agree. At the very least if he felt that he MUST join a political party he would have been better served joining The Greens but I agree that he would have been able to more effectively bring about change by remaining an agitator.
quite honestly i believe the Labor party is their own worst enemy.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!! I have this theory that they have been infiltrated by secret Liberal sleeper cells that only come out to distract the rest of the party from putting forward effective policy by continually agitating for leadership challenges!
So why do you think that so many people are opposed to it on ethical grounds. The reason I ask is because it seems (and I could be very wrong) that the majority of Americans don't support it (or is that just because your voices have been hijacked by the religious right?) and up until this week I though we Aussies would be following suit (because most of us have been completely hijacked by the religious element in our current government) but amazingly they have just passed the debate through both houses in favor of the research.
I think in most cases it's either religious or lack of understanding of prenatal development.
All too often, stem-cell research is referred to as fetal stem-cell research. When the majority of lab grown research doesn't make it to the fetal stage. It's mostly embryonic or zygotic from what I understand.
For people that are non-religious and aware of the prenatal development. There is something about it that just sits wrong, maybe they are PETA members. I don't know.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The majority of Americans DO support it. Unfortunately, they often vote for politicians who are opposed to it, because they base their vote on other issues. But in the one state where it was on the ballot this year (Missouri, a conservative state), it was approved.
This is great news to hear hippiemom! Unfortunately we live in a bit of a media fog here since Rupert took over the world! It so hard even to cut through all the local crap so that I feel swamped trying to work out were the US stands. It's good to know that it is being supported , particularly by conservative states.
I think in most cases it's either religious or lack of understanding of prenatal development.
All too often, stem-cell research is referred to as fetal stem-cell research. When the majority of lab grown research doesn't make it to the fetal stage. It's mostly embryonic or zygotic from what I understand.
For people that are non-religious and aware of the prenatal development. There is something about it that just sits wrong, maybe they are PETA members. I don't know.
Most Americans support it, but of the ones who don't, your reasons account for a huge number of them.
I've never personally discussed it with anyone who didn't support it. My son-in-law, however, grew up in rural PA, and he took his mom to a church event where it came up, and they were talking about the poor little babies in test tubes!!! That is seriously the picture they have in their minds when you talk about embryonic stem cells. How do you even begin to talk to such people?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Most Americans support it, but of the ones who don't, your reasons account for a huge number of them.
I've never personally discussed it with anyone who didn't support it. My son-in-law, however, grew up in rural PA, and he took his mom to a church event where it came up, and they were talking about the poor little babies in test tubes!!! That is seriously the picture they have in their minds when you talk about embryonic stem cells. How do you even begin to talk to such people?
Yea, that's messed up.
I've also heard the argument that we should no play God. Somehow using stem-cells is playing God. That's assuming of course.. there is a God.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I think we need a legal moral line, for example, the second or third trimester might be too late to abort ethically speaking.
But concerning wether or not we should abort period. That should be left up to the individual, the same with stem-cells.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I think in most cases it's either religious or lack of understanding of prenatal development.
I guess what I don't understand is why is it so abhorent to people on religious or moral grounds when many of them seem so ready to support war. It's no secret I have no religious affiliations but perhaps I'm immoral too because I think it is far worse to kill a fully grown human being that can stand on his own simply to procur oil or some other financial advantage.
All too often, stem-cell research is referred to as fetal stem-cell research. When the majority of lab grown research doesn't make it to the fetal stage. It's mostly embryonic or zygotic from what I understand.
I went to a public lecture about this recently which was asking us to support The Lockhart Report and during the lecture they spoke about being able to create stem cells by fertalizing the nucleus with other tissue stem cells which would have no potential for ever being a human being. Does this sound correct? I felt like I was sitting at the airport for much of it!
I guess what I don't understand is why is it so abhorent to people on religious or moral grounds when many of them seem so ready to support war. It's no secret I have no religious affiliations but perhaps I'm immoral too because I think it is far worse to kill a fully grown human being that can stand on his own simply to procur oil or some other financial advantage.
I went to a public lecture about this recently which was asking us to support The Lockhart Report and during the lecture they spoke about being able to create stem cells by fertalizing the nucleus with other tissue stem cells which would have no potential for ever being a human being. Does this sound correct? I felt like I was sitting at the airport for much of it!
Haha, yea, I'm pretty sure there isn't any fertilization involved either. They basically microwave the egg and a few cells pop up and they use those. But the egg is toast after that.
It should be noted too that each individual ovary and each individual sperm cell is an organism all on it's own. Every time a woman has a period or every time a guy jacks off they are killing something.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
i don't think so. hardheaded maybe.
Shit, and here I thought I evolved from a damn ape. Things are much clearer now!
Thanks
I think it's genetic :(
Have fun onelongsong!
Agreed.
Yea, some digested substances are small enough to traverse the placenta, which is the babies connection to the mother. So drugs like DES go through the placenta to the baby. It's called a teratogen. Things like Vit C (excess amounts), Cocain, Alcohol, Tobacco, and so on, all teratogens.
EDIT: I forgot some important ones, German Measels, Hormone treatment and Influenza. I'm sure there are more, look up Teratogens online for a better listing.
Well don't give up! Sooner or later somebody won't. Well that's my experience anyway. I guess the best thing I learnt is to not let the f***ers stop me from trying to find the good folk. And I still carry the hurt but I don't let it dictate my life because that just gives the perpertrators of the hurt more power. ie it allows them to continue to hurt you. Be f***ed I'm giving those a**holes any more power!!!
Anyhoo hope you'll be my friend anyway
BTW sorry I took so long to respond. Have I mentioned that dial-up sucks???!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I absolutely agree that there are a LOT of unfit parents out there, but it's nowhere near 90%.
Thought they might be!!!
So going off subject completely, I would be very interested to hear your views (not statistics) on the stem cell debate and can you please go very gently? My brain is a fragile thing. (Think Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz)
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i did do it and didn't find out the full ramifications until i started working with kids. a parent calling a kid a f'n idoit or worthless stays with them longer than most think.
when someone finds a part ape; part human; i may believe. we have fossils from mars yet no missing link. DNA has linked every person with a black man in africa yet no reasonable links have ever been made between man and ape. only theories.
sorry i changed the subject but you started it.
i don't befriend many people but i've never lost a friend either. looks like we're friends for life now.
On stem-cell research?
Well, personally, any fetus or embryo that has already been aborted should by all means be used for stem-cell research.
I'm not opposed to embryonic stem-cell research where the embryo is cultured in the lab either.
Stem-cell research will help us in many significant ways, and although it may be debatable ethically, I think it's defeatus to completely abort the research.
EDIT: Umm, no pun intended.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Suits me! Happy to know you and call you my friend. I'm very good at reciprocating loyalty myself so I guess you're stuck with me!
As for the bizo about the first black man and the apes I doubt very much we will ever know. I think I stick to the ape theory as opposed to the "creation" theory but I suppose I really hold that we started as cell life and probably crawled out of the swamps or the oceans. (Jumping forward to apes from that sits better in my mind!)
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobosexsoc.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexuality#Homosexual_behavior
Just for interest's sake.
-C Addison
Pleased to hear and agree with your views.
I think it's defeatist to completely abort the research?
Very funny
So why do you think that so many people are opposed to it on ethical grounds. The reason I ask is because it seems (and I could be very wrong) that the majority of Americans don't support it (or is that just because your voices have been hijacked by the religious right?) and up until this week I though we Aussies would be following suit (because most of us have been completely hijacked by the religious element in our current government) but amazingly they have just passed the debate through both houses in favor of the research.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
if you don't make a big deal out of it, it won't be an issue.
~Ron Burgundy
but without the support of either the PM john howard or the leader of the opposition kevin rudd. i think that's what i heard this morning.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's correct catefrances both of them voted against it and disappointingly so did Peter Garrett. (I'm finding it harder and harder to reconcile the man we now see with the man I thought I knew)
Anyway we've still got a long way to go as the ammendments to the legislation won't be finalized until next year and I'm a firm believer in there's many a slip between cup and lip.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
peter garrett lost me the minute he sold his soul to the devil that is the establishment. i do not believe you can rot the system from the inside. or exact any real change if you are kowtowing to party lines that are designed to censure original thought and practice. quite honestly i believe the Labor party is their own worst enemy.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm certainly not condoning verbal abuse, I think it's at least as damaging as physical abuse. I'm just saying that a once-in-a-blue-moon hurtful remark in an otherwise loving household doesn't constitute abuse.
Me too! It left me completely reeling because it negated all that I thought he stood for! And I had been such a fan for such a long time. It was completely out of left field as far as I could see and makes it extremely difficult to listen to Midnight oil anymore which is like excising a greater part of my soul.
I agree. At the very least if he felt that he MUST join a political party he would have been better served joining The Greens but I agree that he would have been able to more effectively bring about change by remaining an agitator.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!! I have this theory that they have been infiltrated by secret Liberal sleeper cells that only come out to distract the rest of the party from putting forward effective policy by continually agitating for leadership challenges!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I think in most cases it's either religious or lack of understanding of prenatal development.
All too often, stem-cell research is referred to as fetal stem-cell research. When the majority of lab grown research doesn't make it to the fetal stage. It's mostly embryonic or zygotic from what I understand.
For people that are non-religious and aware of the prenatal development. There is something about it that just sits wrong, maybe they are PETA members. I don't know.
This is great news to hear hippiemom! Unfortunately we live in a bit of a media fog here since Rupert took over the world! It so hard even to cut through all the local crap so that I feel swamped trying to work out were the US stands. It's good to know that it is being supported , particularly by conservative states.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I've never personally discussed it with anyone who didn't support it. My son-in-law, however, grew up in rural PA, and he took his mom to a church event where it came up, and they were talking about the poor little babies in test tubes!!! That is seriously the picture they have in their minds when you talk about embryonic stem cells. How do you even begin to talk to such people?
Yea, that's messed up.
I've also heard the argument that we should no play God. Somehow using stem-cells is playing God. That's assuming of course.. there is a God.
But concerning wether or not we should abort period. That should be left up to the individual, the same with stem-cells.
I guess what I don't understand is why is it so abhorent to people on religious or moral grounds when many of them seem so ready to support war. It's no secret I have no religious affiliations but perhaps I'm immoral too because I think it is far worse to kill a fully grown human being that can stand on his own simply to procur oil or some other financial advantage.
I went to a public lecture about this recently which was asking us to support The Lockhart Report and during the lecture they spoke about being able to create stem cells by fertalizing the nucleus with other tissue stem cells which would have no potential for ever being a human being. Does this sound correct? I felt like I was sitting at the airport for much of it!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Haha, yea, I'm pretty sure there isn't any fertilization involved either. They basically microwave the egg and a few cells pop up and they use those. But the egg is toast after that.
It should be noted too that each individual ovary and each individual sperm cell is an organism all on it's own. Every time a woman has a period or every time a guy jacks off they are killing something.