Wait, and I thought you all were waiting to hear about the dog thing!!!!! Well, that's where I am at, at least!!!
ellen degenerates partner said she's going back to men; and did. and frank zappa didn't make up the dog thing on his own. several books mention it throughout history.
bisexuals; hummmm; how does that fit in? is that like the missing link or are they born halfway between hetro and gay?
like i said; i don't care.
animals are triggered by scent. and as time has proven with humans; a horny person will screw anything.
ellen degenerates partner said she's going back to men; and did. and frank zappa didn't make up the dog thing on his own. several books mention it throughout history.
bisexuals; hummmm; how does that fit in? is that like the missing link or are they born halfway between hetro and gay?
like i said; i don't care.
animals are triggered by scent. and as time has proven with humans; a horny person will screw anything.
If you're talking about Anne Heche, going gay for a career move doesn't count either. Or have you never heard the term "gay for pay" (though, that's usually reserved for porn - of course, I've seen her Wild Side and parts of it are close)?
Bisexuality is something different, I believe; and can pretty much come from anywhere. For some, I'm sure it's a fetish (or perversion, if you prefer) for a person who's otherwise gay or straight, for others it really is just an either or type thing. For some, maybe it's conditional. Who knows?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
What I know is that I have a 24 year old and a 17 year old. They respect that they were raised in a family that did not sweep things under the rug with denial, contradiction and falsehood. Therefore, athough we had a ton of problems, including social ostracization/stigma for poverty and mental health issues, we've had a mentality of getting through it, and with openness and honesty and growth. Therefore my children did not need to rebel against such natural life-enhancing values. Other minorities sometimes learn similar lessons when faced with the ignorance of "traditional" values and the ugly judgments/stigma that stem from such "tradition". If you ask my kids if they would prefer to have been raised in a "normal" non-mental-illness-infested family, they would both say "no". My 24 year old daughter has, many times.
Exactly. All you need is love, no matter how played out that line is. What makes a homosexual environment a bad one to raise children in? I'm just not getting it.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
yes; and when i milked cows; we knew when a cow was in heat when another cow jumped on it. not homosexuality; reaction to scent. that's how we knew to call the vet for artificial insemination.
Exactly. All you need is love, no matter how played out that line is. What makes a homosexual environment a bad one to raise children in? I'm just not getting it.
for the most part nothing. it just puts the child in a situation where that cant explain why daddy and daddy are holding hands.
yes; and when i milked cows; we knew when a cow was in heat when another cow jumped on it. not homosexuality; reaction to scent. that's how we knew to call the vet for artificial insemination.
I think it's absolutely fascinating how the Vomeronasal Organ decodes the pheramones. Maybe that's a sick fascination to have.
It was disputed for a long time if humans have VNO Organs or other Olfactory senses, but, it's no longer disputed that humans have Olfactory senses. If it's in the form of VNO, who knows?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
because kids are mean. the kid might get laughed at for having "weird" parents. or 2 mommies.
kids also get laughed at for having divorced parents. or bad clothes. or a stupid haircut. or big ears. do we outlaw all of those? in the grand sceme of things, this is a weak argument. kids will always find reasons to insult each other.
Exactly. All you need is love, no matter how played out that line is. What makes a homosexual environment a bad one to raise children in? I'm just not getting it.
oppression; being teased by other kids; being outcast; getting beat up; being banned from pys ed showers b/c of complaints. things like that.
i'm not saying i agree; but those things happen.
oppression; being teased by other kids; being outcast; getting beat up; being banned from pys ed showers b/c of complaints. things like that.
i'm not saying i agree; but those things happen.
Those things happen anyway. It shouldn't be a reason to prohibit homosexuals from raising children.
So what's your point??? Children of straight parents and homosexual parents may not agree with their parents values..... I don't see any difference so why deny a group from raising kids???
precisely. though id amend it and say kids dont really question their parents' values, nor are they even aware of them for the most part. teenagers will disagree with every value their parents hold just to rebel. hell, for a while there i half hoped id become gay just to fuck with my parents for taking the views NCfan is expressing here. i thought they were old-fashoined and intolerant.
oppression; being teased by other kids; being outcast; getting beat up; being banned from pys ed showers b/c of complaints. things like that.
i'm not saying i agree; but those things happen.
And, if someone breaks into your home and steals things, we should lock you up?
Black kids got picked on every time they visited my all white town. Should they have painted themselves? Perhaps a law banning them past the town line - for their own protection?
Those things happen anyway. It shouldn't be a reason to prohibit homosexuals from raising children.
I agree. The ugliness of humanity is what it is. I don't let it run my life--and I teach my children that the ugliness of others is about the ugly "others". We don't own that. It's amazing what kids can let roll off them when they know this. I'd rather teach them that, and teach them about tolerance and compassion. And I did. Both of my kids well know that when someone is coming at them harshly, it is not about them.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
oppression; being teased by other kids; being outcast; getting beat up; being banned from pys ed showers b/c of complaints. things like that.
i'm not saying i agree; but those things happen.
Where have you heard of these things happening? And does it happen on a scale that would make raising kids in this environment wrong?
Or are we actually talking about isolated incidents that are blown out of proportion in order to be used against gays who want to raise kids & be parents like everyone else.
kids also get laughed at for having divorced parents. or bad clothes. or a stupid haircut. or big ears. do we outlaw all of those? in the grand sceme of things, this is a weak argument. kids will always find reasons to insult each other.
the divorce rate is 62% so divorced parents are the norn; or at least majority.
next; have you seen kids today? orange and blue hair. studs and all kinds of metal coming out of their bodies; pants falling off; tatoos of every imaginable subject. high schools are like the old freak shows.
i did hear someone ask another "what kind of reception do you get with those ears" so you may have a small point.
precisely. though id amend it and say kids dont really question their parents' values, nor are they even aware of them for the most part. teenagers will disagree with every value their parents hold just to rebel. hell, for a while there i half hoped id become gay just to fuck with my parents for taking the views NCfan is expressing here. i thought they were old-fashoined and intolerant.
I think the main reason kids rebel is their parents lack of explanation.
Teenagers will look for causality and understanding. When the parents say things like "Because I said so!" doesn't provide much understanding.
That's what teenagers rebel against IMO.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
for the most part nothing. it just puts the child in a situation where that cant explain why daddy and daddy are holding hands.
Why couldn't they explain that? And why should they have to? The answer is easy enough....because they love one another. Why should other children have a problem with that unless their parents have raised them to look down upon homosexuals? Maybe those children and their parents are the ones who should do the explaining.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And, if someone breaks into your home and steals things, we should lock you up?
Black kids got picked on every time they visited my all white town. Should they have painted themselves? Perhaps a law banning them past the town line - for their own protection?
in CA during the 70's bussing; the black kids beat up the white kids so i guess it depends where you lived.
if someone broke into my home they wouldn't live to tell about it.
who said anything about banning anything or anyone? i stated twice that i don't care. i'm just answering a question that i knew the answer for from experience.
the divorce rate is 62% so divorced parents are the norn; or at least majority.
next; have you seen kids today? orange and blue hair. studs and all kinds of metal coming out of their bodies; pants falling off; tatoos of every imaginable subject. high schools are like the old freak shows.
i did hear someone ask another "what kind of reception do you get with those ears" so you may have a small point.
what is the point of all this? it just shows teens will be teens and will always find ways to criticize the different or seek out the similar. if kids are becoming more and more individual, wouldnt that mean gay parents matter less and less? times are changing. most people dont give a fuck about who your parents are anymore. we dont know if they're single, divorced, married, gay, child molestors, politicians, or what. and mostly it's not an issue.
kids also get laughed at for having divorced parents. or bad clothes. or a stupid haircut. or big ears. do we outlaw all of those? in the grand sceme of things, this is a weak argument. kids will always find reasons to insult each other.
you still dont get it. first of all, I certainly am not asking for anything to be outlawed.
second of all
40-50% of kids will have divorced parents. so I dont think this is a big issue with kids making fun of other kids.
bad clothes? can be changed
stupid haircut? it will grow back
big ears? yup, poor kid will be made fun of.
but having a bunch of the kid's peers see his dad and dad hugging at a tee ball game?
chances are, the kid, is the only one who has gay parents. chances are he will be made fun of. probably brutally. homophobia is huge in this country and many straight middle age dads will direct or indirectly teach their kids that gays arent "normal".
Being homosexual or bisexual is indeed natural and normal. The disease is weakaphobia....it infects week humans that are insecure with their own sexuality. Cure? Time, another generation or two. This will happen...regardless of number of babies born to infected parents.
oppression; being teased by other kids; being outcast; getting beat up; being banned from pys ed showers b/c of complaints. things like that.
i'm not saying i agree; but those things happen.
And those things happen for all kinds of reasons except the showers thing. I haven't even heard of that one before which leads me to believe that is a rare occurance.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Why couldn't they explain that? And why should they have to? The answer is easy enough....because they love one another. Why should other children have a problem with that unless their parents have raised them to look down upon homosexuals? Maybe those children and their parents are the ones who should do the explaining.
not that easy to explain that to a bunch of immature pre teen children
in CA during the 70's bussing; the black kids beat up the white kids so i guess it depends where you lived.
if someone broke into my home they wouldn't live to tell about it.
who said anything about banning anything or anyone? i stated twice that i don't care. i'm just answering a question that i knew the answer for from experience.
I thought we were discussing homosexual couples raising children; and that one of the reasons you don't think they should is because the kids would get picked on. Maybe you didn't say it should be banned - I can be a bit hyperbolic from time to time - but you certainly implied that they shouldn't.
I think by teenage years children begin to question their parents motives. Where as before they just saw their parents as perfect models.
When a child asks what the causality is of their parents actions or opinions. They really need an answer. All too often parents will respond negatively, in a "leave me alone" manner. Teenagers then search elsewhere for the answers. As this happens more and more, they become disconnected and yet, the parents still want "control" over their teenage children.
So from the perspective of a teenager, your parents want to invoke their value judgements on you, yet can not explain to you why they have them.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That being said, it would be nice if you addressed my point about it being unnatural for two women to raise a child.
Hands up if you were raised by two women? I think my Mum and my Nana did an excellent job and I'm sure I'm not the only one who was in this situation. Who cares who raises you, (two Dads, two Mum's, a Mum & a Dad, your Aunty, your brother, your foster parents, the whole bloody village!), as long as they do a good job. Two people of any sex wanting to be parents and going through all the trials and tribulations of becoming and being parents has got to be a better for a kid than boy screws girl, she get's pregnant, he can't cope, she can't abort, he pisses off, she struggles on alone, he comes back, she lets him, he's a drunken abuser or is just plain disinterested! WHATEVER!!! You need a licence to drive a car but any f***er can be a parent!!! :mad: Just because you have a mum and a dad who are married and fulfil all the "normal" "natural" "biblical" "traditional" requirements of "what nature intended" :mad: doesn't mean you are going to be any better off as a child. If gays, lesbians, infertile, heterosexual couples, single women, single men, want to be parents and they are well educated in their choice then they get my support. Hell, I'd support a monkey over some of the morons I've seen in straight married relationships!!!
chances are, the kid, is the only one who has gay parents. chances are he will be made fun of. probably brutally. homophobia is huge in this country and many straight middle age dads will direct or indirectly teach their kids that gays arent "normal".
but it is changing...exponentially so. Look at how progressive (Liberal) we are now compared to just a generation ago...we now have openly gay actors, politicians, police officers.....soldiers. Children now will see more and more how this isn't a problem and we'll move forward as a society. Oh and other western coutries...are even further along.
Comments
ellen degenerates partner said she's going back to men; and did. and frank zappa didn't make up the dog thing on his own. several books mention it throughout history.
bisexuals; hummmm; how does that fit in? is that like the missing link or are they born halfway between hetro and gay?
like i said; i don't care.
animals are triggered by scent. and as time has proven with humans; a horny person will screw anything.
Bisexuality is something different, I believe; and can pretty much come from anywhere. For some, I'm sure it's a fetish (or perversion, if you prefer) for a person who's otherwise gay or straight, for others it really is just an either or type thing. For some, maybe it's conditional. Who knows?
thank you. that's what i was looking for. no one has the answers.
i'm not sure it's halfway so much as a spot on a spectrum that could be fluid.
cross the river to the eastside
Olfactory senses to be specific.
Exactly. All you need is love, no matter how played out that line is. What makes a homosexual environment a bad one to raise children in? I'm just not getting it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
yes; and when i milked cows; we knew when a cow was in heat when another cow jumped on it. not homosexuality; reaction to scent. that's how we knew to call the vet for artificial insemination.
for the most part nothing. it just puts the child in a situation where that cant explain why daddy and daddy are holding hands.
I think it's absolutely fascinating how the Vomeronasal Organ decodes the pheramones. Maybe that's a sick fascination to have.
It was disputed for a long time if humans have VNO Organs or other Olfactory senses, but, it's no longer disputed that humans have Olfactory senses. If it's in the form of VNO, who knows?
kids also get laughed at for having divorced parents. or bad clothes. or a stupid haircut. or big ears. do we outlaw all of those? in the grand sceme of things, this is a weak argument. kids will always find reasons to insult each other.
oppression; being teased by other kids; being outcast; getting beat up; being banned from pys ed showers b/c of complaints. things like that.
i'm not saying i agree; but those things happen.
precisely. though id amend it and say kids dont really question their parents' values, nor are they even aware of them for the most part. teenagers will disagree with every value their parents hold just to rebel. hell, for a while there i half hoped id become gay just to fuck with my parents for taking the views NCfan is expressing here. i thought they were old-fashoined and intolerant.
Black kids got picked on every time they visited my all white town. Should they have painted themselves? Perhaps a law banning them past the town line - for their own protection?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Or are we actually talking about isolated incidents that are blown out of proportion in order to be used against gays who want to raise kids & be parents like everyone else.
the divorce rate is 62% so divorced parents are the norn; or at least majority.
next; have you seen kids today? orange and blue hair. studs and all kinds of metal coming out of their bodies; pants falling off; tatoos of every imaginable subject. high schools are like the old freak shows.
i did hear someone ask another "what kind of reception do you get with those ears" so you may have a small point.
I think the main reason kids rebel is their parents lack of explanation.
Teenagers will look for causality and understanding. When the parents say things like "Because I said so!" doesn't provide much understanding.
That's what teenagers rebel against IMO.
Why couldn't they explain that? And why should they have to? The answer is easy enough....because they love one another. Why should other children have a problem with that unless their parents have raised them to look down upon homosexuals? Maybe those children and their parents are the ones who should do the explaining.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
in CA during the 70's bussing; the black kids beat up the white kids so i guess it depends where you lived.
if someone broke into my home they wouldn't live to tell about it.
who said anything about banning anything or anyone? i stated twice that i don't care. i'm just answering a question that i knew the answer for from experience.
what is the point of all this? it just shows teens will be teens and will always find ways to criticize the different or seek out the similar. if kids are becoming more and more individual, wouldnt that mean gay parents matter less and less? times are changing. most people dont give a fuck about who your parents are anymore. we dont know if they're single, divorced, married, gay, child molestors, politicians, or what. and mostly it's not an issue.
you still dont get it. first of all, I certainly am not asking for anything to be outlawed.
second of all
40-50% of kids will have divorced parents. so I dont think this is a big issue with kids making fun of other kids.
bad clothes? can be changed
stupid haircut? it will grow back
big ears? yup, poor kid will be made fun of.
but having a bunch of the kid's peers see his dad and dad hugging at a tee ball game?
chances are, the kid, is the only one who has gay parents. chances are he will be made fun of. probably brutally. homophobia is huge in this country and many straight middle age dads will direct or indirectly teach their kids that gays arent "normal".
And those things happen for all kinds of reasons except the showers thing. I haven't even heard of that one before which leads me to believe that is a rare occurance.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
not that easy to explain that to a bunch of immature pre teen children
When a child asks what the causality is of their parents actions or opinions. They really need an answer. All too often parents will respond negatively, in a "leave me alone" manner. Teenagers then search elsewhere for the answers. As this happens more and more, they become disconnected and yet, the parents still want "control" over their teenage children.
So from the perspective of a teenager, your parents want to invoke their value judgements on you, yet can not explain to you why they have them.
Hands up if you were raised by two women? I think my Mum and my Nana did an excellent job and I'm sure I'm not the only one who was in this situation. Who cares who raises you, (two Dads, two Mum's, a Mum & a Dad, your Aunty, your brother, your foster parents, the whole bloody village!), as long as they do a good job. Two people of any sex wanting to be parents and going through all the trials and tribulations of becoming and being parents has got to be a better for a kid than boy screws girl, she get's pregnant, he can't cope, she can't abort, he pisses off, she struggles on alone, he comes back, she lets him, he's a drunken abuser or is just plain disinterested! WHATEVER!!! You need a licence to drive a car but any f***er can be a parent!!! :mad: Just because you have a mum and a dad who are married and fulfil all the "normal" "natural" "biblical" "traditional" requirements of "what nature intended" :mad: doesn't mean you are going to be any better off as a child. If gays, lesbians, infertile, heterosexual couples, single women, single men, want to be parents and they are well educated in their choice then they get my support. Hell, I'd support a monkey over some of the morons I've seen in straight married relationships!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
but it is changing...exponentially so. Look at how progressive (Liberal) we are now compared to just a generation ago...we now have openly gay actors, politicians, police officers.....soldiers. Children now will see more and more how this isn't a problem and we'll move forward as a society. Oh and other western coutries...are even further along.