we are concerned with US foreign policy, which affects us directly and indirectly. domestic policy is nothing to do with us so basically we couldnt care less. there's really not much we, as foreigners, can do about it. it's all up to you americans to reign in your goverment when it comes to violation of civil rights within your borders.
Well if it were you're civil rights being stripped away, I'd still be concerned. Maybe not much I can do about it but I'd still care on a human level.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well if it were you're civil rights being stripped away, I'd still be concerned. Maybe not much I can do about it but I'd still care on a human level.
i apologise for my lack of tact. i do care, my saying i didnt was unfortunate and a little stupid. tis just, as i said, not much we can do about it. i wait with great anticipation for the day when the Beltway is blocked with angry americans, flaming effigies and placards wriiten in bright red ink calling for the head of your government.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
but on the flip side, when have your rights been infringed upon? any examples?
When looking at The Patriot Act one has to look at the bigger/broader picture. On the inset it may appear that our rights might not be infringed upon however with this law on the the books the government has the aura of fear. We can look, listen and watch you whenever we want under the guise of homeland security and protecting/preventing terrorists before they act.
This Act is the beginning of surveillance that will get increasingly worse. On new Passports they already have tracking devices, next it will be on or in you ALL under the disguise of protecting us from terrorists.
Where do we draw the line as to our privacy? We won't have any, your neighbor could just be pissed off that you have nice things or bought a new car make a call that you appear to be associating with suspicious people or having suspicious behavior. Next thing you could watched put on a list of potential enemy combatants and possibly never to be heard from again and don't tell me it matters that you're a citizen it doesn't.
Many won't understand my distrust of this Act until it affects you or your family. In a way many more would be inclined to protest however with this Act hanging over our shoulders many would rather just stay home and where they feel safe and protected just avoid being surveilled.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Gonzales Was Told of FBI Violations
After Bureau Sent Reports, Attorney General Said He Knew of No Wrongdoing http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/09/AR2007070902065.html
As he sought to renew the USA Patriot Act two years ago, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales assured lawmakers that the FBI had not abused its potent new terrorism-fighting powers. "There has not been one verified case of civil liberties abuse," Gonzales told senators on April 27, 2005.
Six days earlier, the FBI sent Gonzales a copy of a report that said its agents had obtained personal information that they were not entitled to have. It was one of at least half a dozen reports of legal or procedural violations that Gonzales received in the three months before he made his statement to the Senate intelligence committee, according to internal FBI documents released under the Freedom of Information Act.....
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
yeah but those cars with less than 100mg of emissions pay NO TAX.. my tax offsets theirs.. they wont be making money to pay for guys in cubes to read about 4 girls emails discussing Pete Wentz nipple ring.
of course Helen as one of Western Europe's most active political activists i should bow down to your governmental knowledge...
i'm more worried about you than my government now... i cycle everywhere i possibly can now.. you get about 3 buses per day, planes every month, taxis home from the pub every weekend... your love affair is killing the planet .. its all your fault
you only cycle cos you're trying to lose weight I bet... that's the main reason people cycle... plus you admitted you only live a 5 minute drive from work... I'd walk or cycle too if that were the case
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
no one. you just seem a little wound up thats all. i could be wrong... wouldnt be the first time.
anyhoo... helen, you should know the more distractions people have the less they pay attention to the details. there are also people who just dont care... and that is their prerogative. thats great you dont want to be a sheep... millions and milllions of people share your view, but one must lives one's life the way one wants to, not have it dictated by some other well meaning person.
I don't mean to dictate Cate... it's just a debate... and one I find very interesting. I'm well aware that people neither listen to me nor change their lives because of something I believe... I'm not THAT bigheaded . I'm simply stating how I feel here and wondering why others CAN be quite blah about it. I'm starting to understand a bit more though.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
When looking at The Patriot Act one has to look at the bigger/broader picture. On the inset it may appear that our rights might not be infringed upon however with this law on the the books the government has the aura of fear. We can look, listen and watch you whenever we want under the guise of homeland security and protecting/preventing terrorists before they act.
This Act is the beginning of surveillance that will get increasingly worse. On new Passports they already have tracking devices, next it will be on or in you ALL under the disguise of protecting us from terrorists.
Where do we draw the line as to our privacy? We won't have any, your neighbor could just be pissed off that you have nice things or bought a new car make a call that you appear to be associating with suspicious people or having suspicious behavior. Next thing you could watched put on a list of potential enemy combatants and possibly never to be heard from again and don't tell me it matters that you're a citizen it doesn't.
Many won't understand my distrust of this Act until it affects you or your family. In a way many more would be inclined to protest however with this Act hanging over our shoulders many would rather just stay home and where they feel safe and protected just avoid being surveilled.
Peace
Nice post... and great point about them taking license plate numbers
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
you only cycle cos you're trying to lose weight I bet... that's the main reason people cycle... plus you admitted you only live a 5 minute drive from work... I'd walk or cycle too if that were the case
yeah ok, you've got me on that one
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
If I could find a job 5 minutes away too, I'd grab it... of COURSE purely for environmental reasons . Besides this thread isn't about the environment... as far as I can tell it's about globalisation and the new world order.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I don't mean to dictate Cate... it's just a debate... and one I find very interesting. I'm well aware that people neither listen to me nor change their lives because of something I believe... I'm not THAT bigheaded . I'm simply stating how I feel here and wondering why others CAN be quite blah about it. I'm starting to understand a bit more though.
you werent dictating. you were expressing your opinion with gusto, thats all. sometimes even i dont know why people dont seem to give a shit. and why theyre happy with what their various governments get up to and do in their name.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you werent dictating. you were expressing your opinion with gusto, thats all. sometimes even i dont know why people dont seem to give a shit. and why theyre happy with what their various governments get up to and do in their name.
and sometimes I go through short phases of thinking 'fuck the lot of it' 'I couldn't give a fuck'... it generally doesn't last very long though.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
apparently "thinking out of the box" = talking down to and being total asses towards anyone who doesn't see the same conspiracies you do.
interesting definition of openmindedness!
I'm the first one to admit when anyone condescends to anyone else.........they set themselves into imbalance, whether their points have truth to them or not.
Imbalance and humanness does not invalidate kernels of truth...or progressive thought.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Maybe I am just a prick today, but no. I don't think these people should be thanked. I think that conspiracy theories are useful only if there is some tangible evidence to back them up. Critical thinkers with an empirical mindset should be thanked. The message board equivalents of shock-jocks should not be thanked.
Maybe I am just a prick today, but no. I don't think these people should be thanked. I think that conspiracy theories are useful only if there is some tangible evidence to back them up. Critical thinkers with an empirical mindset should be thanked. The message board equivalents of shock-jocks should not be thanked.
I've seen "conspiracy theorists" give tangible empirical evidence over and over...often they are interpreting the empirical evidence differently than someone else - someone more "mainstream" for example.
And many times I see that they are dismissed without serious consideration, based on the inability of the person dismissing them to objectively consider input that goes against their own basic sense of reality. In such cases - and it happens OFTEN on this board!!!...- it is a lack of tangible evidence on the part of the one doing the dismissing that causes such an individual to shut down their OWN ability to be logical and objective. All because they cannot grasp a different paradigm and consider facts and information outside their own sphere of comfort. That is not due to a lack in the person putting forth the theory, but rather due to a lack in ability to understand what is being said and to effectively dispute it.
Since you value one type of intelligence over other types that are considered by the experts to be equally valid (ie: you value critical thinkers with an empirical mindset ), you reveal your own bias.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Maybe I am just a prick today, but no. I don't think these people should be thanked. I think that conspiracy theories are useful only if there is some tangible evidence to back them up. Critical thinkers with an empirical mindset should be thanked. The message board equivalents of shock-jocks should not be thanked.
That's like, your opinion man.
I think they have offered up plenty of sound evidence but not all people are going to value these things in the same manner as one another... so to each their own.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I think they have offered up plenty of sound evidence but not all people are going to value these things in the same manner as one another... so to each their own.
Damn, I freakin' love that movie.
And yes, we all have our own preferred ways of understanding the world and making sense of things. This board has enlightened my thinking around a number of issues, including Israel/Palestine, and I do not believe that having a controversial opinion is necessary a bad thing, at all. And angelica's point about interpretation of the evidence has some real merit ... I suppose where her and I might differ is on the basic definition of what constitutes good evidence.
I'd be flattered, but we Irish don't have "jokes" yet.
You guys must feel like you've entered some strange, alternate universe when you peer through your computer screens into the vast interwebs of jews, jokes, sliced bread, breakfast cereals and dvds.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Since you value one type of intelligence over other types that are considered by the experts to be equally valid (ie: you value critical thinkers with an empirical mindset ), you reveal your own bias.
Hmm ... I'll have to think on that, but I will freely concede up front that I AM biased, in that I do prefer an empirical approach to understanding the world, rather than a purely intuitive or emotional one. Do these latter perspectives also have value? Yes, at least at times, they do. In my view, emotions and intuition are perfectly viable ways of constructing one's social reality, given that they are also amenable to an empirical understanding. I am not sure that I do value one type of intelligence (in a Gardnerian sense, for instance) above any one other ... I think my mindset can apply to most or all realms of the human experience.
And yes, we all have our own preferred ways of understanding the world and making sense of things. This board has enlightened my thinking around a number of issues, including Israel/Palestine, and I do not believe that having a controversial opinion is necessary a bad thing, at all. And angelica's point about interpretation of the evidence has some real merit ... I suppose where her and I might differ is on the basic definition of what constitutes good evidence.
This board has really changed my perception on so many things...I can't seem to stay decided on some topics because people are so good at expressing their point of view here. I just try to keep an open mind and keep listening.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I think they have offered up plenty of sound evidence but not all people are going to value these things in the same manner as one another... so to each their own.
This unchecked aggression will not stand, man!
Things i've provided proof of:
1. Lee Harvey Oswald had a spy camera, his USMC documentation shows he was tested in Russian language, he was arrested with his marine ring and bracelet on. A cut out\white sillouette version of the "back yard photo" was found in the Dallas police archives. Oswald knew David Ferrie. Oswald stamped his pro-castro handbills with the same address as a bunch of CIA anti-castro nuts were using on Camp St. (David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, et all) ... the government never talked to any of these people, some of them died within the next 3 years. Oswald was framed in Mexico, extensively documented by CIA and FBI records. I've shown you the testimony of James Files who claims to BE the 2nd gunman on the knoll, and i've shown you the CIA documents released 10 years AFTER his testimony that prove the same man Files says hired him was a known mafia agent that the CIA hired the same year as the JFK killing to try and murder Castro. What a fucking coincidence. I've shown you the FBI photos AND logs of TWO spent bullets at the scene of the 6th floor of the Book Depository, and not the THREE that would be needed for the Warren commission report. I've shown you COUNTLESS examples of forged medical evidence, forged ballistic evidence, and witnesses that had been manipulated, tampered with, and outright misquoted -- witnesses who have gone on record SAYING AS MUCH! I've shown you the testimony of Chauncey Holt, who was one of the three tramps ... a man whose testimony gives credence to a mega-shit ton of what took place that day. I've shown you documents proving that the ammunition allegedly used by Oswald was 20 years old at the time of his purchase of it, that it had not been manufactured in 20 years, that he could not have even ordered it on the commercial market, that infact these same guns and ammo were ordered in HUGE volume by ... THE CIA ... for $2 (TWO dollars) a piece, and that teh ammo was stated as unreliable in ballistics tests. I've shown you the evidence that the sight on Oswald's rifle wasn't even set right, and that the FBI had to jerry-rig it by placing a shiv under it to even get it to aim properly for testing purposes. Further, the gun wasn't even oiled before the FBI oiled it.
2. Bush shows up all over the place in connection with JFK. His oil company is now a well known CIA front operation. Bush denies being in the CIA at the time. This is a proven lie. I've shown you documents where the chief of the FBI acknowledges a "George Bush of the CIA" on a memo entitled "Assassination of JFK" ... both Bosh and Carriles were hired by Bush.
3. All kinds of fishy shit involving 911. The 911 Commission report flat out lies about what time Cheney arrived in the command bunker. It ignores Norman Minnetas testimony regarding "of course the order still stands". The FAA deposed all workers by taking recorded statements of their accounts of 911. Their supervisor collected these testimonies and destroyed them in front of everyone. Bush and Cheney wouldn't testify except under the most absolute bullshit of conditions. I've showed you seizmographic evidence of "explosions" all over the twin towers starting more than 3-5 minutes before the collapse started, and increasing in frequency 20 seconds before collapse. We've showed you extensively the lies and deception both by NIST officials, and all the fuck over the NIST reports themselves. We've shown you the pakistani intelligence official who is admitted to have transferred $100k to hijacker Mohammed Atta, and admittedly had a meeting with Rumsfeld, Rice, and Wolfowitz the day before and the day of 911. We've been over the war games, the transfer of "intercept" orders from miltary to cheney, the unsusualy low volume of passengers on all flights involved with 911. We've shown you testimony from countles dozens and hundreds of credentialed individuals who dispute everything that happend that day: CIA ranking officials, state department officials, military officials, long time FAA employees, fighter pilots, engineers, etc etc etc ... all say 911 is a crock of shit.
4. I've showed you that both the guy who "discovered" HIV, and the first and most credentialed "AIDS Denier" were BOTH involved TOGETHER in the "US Special Virus Cancer (Research) Program". And i've showed you the quotes from documents proving beyond a doubt that what the Special Virus Program was attempting to do was create a virus IDENTICAL in description and function to HIV.
5. We've been over Jonestown, and how Dweyer was a CIA agent, and how he lied about not going back to Jonestown after the massacre at the landing strip. How Jim Jones himself is heard just before his strange murder at midnight yelling "get Dweyer out of here before he gets hurt!" ...proving Dweyer went back, and was among the last alive at Jonestown. I've showed that the government lied about the numbers, and that bodies were dragged on top of other bodies. I've showed that Brzezinski ordered their medical tags removed. I've showed that Jonestown had an IDENTICAL list of drugs (psychedelics and all) to that of the MKULTRA program and that there was enough of these drugs to keep the whole goddamn , and place drugged up for probably a decade. They had a ultra-modern hospital, and everyone got a DAILY check up.
6. I've shown you videos of psychiatrists interviewing and discussing Sirhan Sirhan, saying he very clearly was super-duper-ultra succeptible to hypnosis. Court record shows Sirhan repeatedly, continuously, and emphaticaly denied ANY memory of the murder itself, and even is on record saying that the murder "didn't sound like me. wasn't something i would do. it wasn't sane. and i'm sane." ... and i've linked you to audio of police interrogation of a witness that stopped short of abuse to manipulate the record of the interview, CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALY distorting and outright obfuscating the truth about the lady in the polka dot dress. This shows COMPLICITY on account of the authorities!
7. The First WTC Bombing: the NYTimes ran a story clearly explaining that an FBI informant had been duped by the FBI, and that his "terrorist" contacts had been GIVEN A LIVE EXPLOSIVE DEVICE BY THE FBI, and that the informant complained about this when he found out, and that the FBI then proceeded to just remove the informant from the loop, and let the terrorists do the bombing.
8. The Murrah building in Oklahoma City: I've shown you countless news reels of reporters talking of "CONFIRMED REPORTS FROM THE FBI" that there are "MULTIPLE DEVICES STILL IN THE BUILDINGS". I've shown you PROOF that there was a second man in the rental truck. I've shown you the testimony of a man who broke the law by speaking of his involvement as a juror on the Grand Jury for the case, where he is emphatic about the prosecution denying him his rights as a Juror and obfuscating the entirety of the matter, failing to provide him with requested expert witnesses, and witholding requested information (like a sketch of "John Doe #2") from him and the rest of the Jury. I've shown you conclusive EYE WITNESS evidence from MULTIPLE individuals who say this 2nd man was OLIVE SKINNED. I've shown you quotes from the second man, Mr. Nichols, who claims explicitly that McVeigh was set up and duped by the FBI!
9. Next we gonna talk about the Lusitania. Because that is EXTREMELY WELL DOCUMENTED BY HISTORICAL RECORD!
no proof my fucking lilly white, red hair speckled ass.
:cool:
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Comments
Well if it were you're civil rights being stripped away, I'd still be concerned. Maybe not much I can do about it but I'd still care on a human level.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i apologise for my lack of tact. i do care, my saying i didnt was unfortunate and a little stupid. tis just, as i said, not much we can do about it. i wait with great anticipation for the day when the Beltway is blocked with angry americans, flaming effigies and placards wriiten in bright red ink calling for the head of your government.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
When looking at The Patriot Act one has to look at the bigger/broader picture. On the inset it may appear that our rights might not be infringed upon however with this law on the the books the government has the aura of fear. We can look, listen and watch you whenever we want under the guise of homeland security and protecting/preventing terrorists before they act.
This Act is the beginning of surveillance that will get increasingly worse. On new Passports they already have tracking devices, next it will be on or in you ALL under the disguise of protecting us from terrorists.
Where do we draw the line as to our privacy? We won't have any, your neighbor could just be pissed off that you have nice things or bought a new car make a call that you appear to be associating with suspicious people or having suspicious behavior. Next thing you could watched put on a list of potential enemy combatants and possibly never to be heard from again and don't tell me it matters that you're a citizen it doesn't.
Three years ago in September my daughter and I went to a anti war protest march here in DC. We headed out to the march and my daughter asked me who are those men next to our car? I told not to worry it's just men from our government. They were taking down license plates including mine STY HUMN of protesters who were attending a peaceful march in our nation's Capital.
Many won't understand my distrust of this Act until it affects you or your family. In a way many more would be inclined to protest however with this Act hanging over our shoulders many would rather just stay home and where they feel safe and protected just avoid being surveilled.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
a post about putting peaceful protesters on watch lists
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5373886&postcount=111
Patriot Act Abuses Seen
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/attack/main564189.shtml
FBI Papers Indicate Intelligence Violations
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301352.html
Patriot Act abuses
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Patriot_Act_abuses
Critics cite PATRIOT Act abuse and misuse
Dodson: Act stretches beyond terrorism cases
http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2003/09/14/StateLocal/Critics.Cite.Patriot.Act.Abuse.And.Misuse-465391.shtml
Gonzales Was Told of FBI Violations
After Bureau Sent Reports, Attorney General Said He Knew of No Wrongdoing
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/09/AR2007070902065.html
As he sought to renew the USA Patriot Act two years ago, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales assured lawmakers that the FBI had not abused its potent new terrorism-fighting powers. "There has not been one verified case of civil liberties abuse," Gonzales told senators on April 27, 2005.
Six days earlier, the FBI sent Gonzales a copy of a report that said its agents had obtained personal information that they were not entitled to have. It was one of at least half a dozen reports of legal or procedural violations that Gonzales received in the three months before he made his statement to the Senate intelligence committee, according to internal FBI documents released under the Freedom of Information Act.....
Conyers: FBI's Patriot abuses 'potentially without limit'
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Conyers_FBIs_Patriot_abuses_potentially_without_0309.html
Abuse of the Patriot Act
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/10/08/EDGL626TD81.DTL
Use of Warrantless National Security Letters Against US Citizens Must End
Another Patriot Act Abuse
http://www.counterpunch.org/webb03152007.html
Libraries React to Patriot Act Abuses
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/18/614/
According to FBI director, Mr. (Robert) Mueller, the FBI collected personal data by improperly using national security letters in 2006.
FBI widespread abuse continued until 2006, says FBI director Mr (Robert) Mueller.
http://www.newsoxy.com/tech/robert_mueller_says_fbi_abuse_continued_until_2006/article10488.htm
is that enough....?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
yeah ok, you've got me on that one
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
you werent dictating. you were expressing your opinion with gusto, thats all.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
me too helen, me too.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
interesting definition of openmindedness!
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Imbalance and humanness does not invalidate kernels of truth...or progressive thought.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Of course, me and Helen couldn't possibly comment. We don't have conspiracies in Ireland yet.
^^^Look! Three little green leprechauns!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Does the fact that the rest of the world thinks leprechauns are a myth count as a conspiracy?
They do!? You're shittin' me!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I know! It's incredible! Next thing your know, they'll be saying all Irish people aren't actually called Willie McFinnegan. :eek:
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
damn you for cracking me up all day!!!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'd be flattered, but we Irish don't have "jokes" yet.
And many times I see that they are dismissed without serious consideration, based on the inability of the person dismissing them to objectively consider input that goes against their own basic sense of reality. In such cases - and it happens OFTEN on this board!!!...- it is a lack of tangible evidence on the part of the one doing the dismissing that causes such an individual to shut down their OWN ability to be logical and objective. All because they cannot grasp a different paradigm and consider facts and information outside their own sphere of comfort. That is not due to a lack in the person putting forth the theory, but rather due to a lack in ability to understand what is being said and to effectively dispute it.
Since you value one type of intelligence over other types that are considered by the experts to be equally valid (ie: you value critical thinkers with an empirical mindset ), you reveal your own bias.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
That's like, your opinion man.
I think they have offered up plenty of sound evidence but not all people are going to value these things in the same manner as one another... so to each their own.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Damn, I freakin' love that movie.
And yes, we all have our own preferred ways of understanding the world and making sense of things. This board has enlightened my thinking around a number of issues, including Israel/Palestine, and I do not believe that having a controversial opinion is necessary a bad thing, at all. And angelica's point about interpretation of the evidence has some real merit ... I suppose where her and I might differ is on the basic definition of what constitutes good evidence.
You guys must feel like you've entered some strange, alternate universe when you peer through your computer screens into the vast interwebs of jews, jokes, sliced bread, breakfast cereals and dvds.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Hmm ... I'll have to think on that, but I will freely concede up front that I AM biased, in that I do prefer an empirical approach to understanding the world, rather than a purely intuitive or emotional one. Do these latter perspectives also have value? Yes, at least at times, they do. In my view, emotions and intuition are perfectly viable ways of constructing one's social reality, given that they are also amenable to an empirical understanding. I am not sure that I do value one type of intelligence (in a Gardnerian sense, for instance) above any one other ... I think my mindset can apply to most or all realms of the human experience.
This board has really changed my perception on so many things...I can't seem to stay decided on some topics because people are so good at expressing their point of view here.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
This unchecked aggression will not stand, man!
Things i've provided proof of:
1. Lee Harvey Oswald had a spy camera, his USMC documentation shows he was tested in Russian language, he was arrested with his marine ring and bracelet on. A cut out\white sillouette version of the "back yard photo" was found in the Dallas police archives. Oswald knew David Ferrie. Oswald stamped his pro-castro handbills with the same address as a bunch of CIA anti-castro nuts were using on Camp St. (David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, et all) ... the government never talked to any of these people, some of them died within the next 3 years. Oswald was framed in Mexico, extensively documented by CIA and FBI records. I've shown you the testimony of James Files who claims to BE the 2nd gunman on the knoll, and i've shown you the CIA documents released 10 years AFTER his testimony that prove the same man Files says hired him was a known mafia agent that the CIA hired the same year as the JFK killing to try and murder Castro. What a fucking coincidence. I've shown you the FBI photos AND logs of TWO spent bullets at the scene of the 6th floor of the Book Depository, and not the THREE that would be needed for the Warren commission report. I've shown you COUNTLESS examples of forged medical evidence, forged ballistic evidence, and witnesses that had been manipulated, tampered with, and outright misquoted -- witnesses who have gone on record SAYING AS MUCH! I've shown you the testimony of Chauncey Holt, who was one of the three tramps ... a man whose testimony gives credence to a mega-shit ton of what took place that day. I've shown you documents proving that the ammunition allegedly used by Oswald was 20 years old at the time of his purchase of it, that it had not been manufactured in 20 years, that he could not have even ordered it on the commercial market, that infact these same guns and ammo were ordered in HUGE volume by ... THE CIA ... for $2 (TWO dollars) a piece, and that teh ammo was stated as unreliable in ballistics tests. I've shown you the evidence that the sight on Oswald's rifle wasn't even set right, and that the FBI had to jerry-rig it by placing a shiv under it to even get it to aim properly for testing purposes. Further, the gun wasn't even oiled before the FBI oiled it.
2. Bush shows up all over the place in connection with JFK. His oil company is now a well known CIA front operation. Bush denies being in the CIA at the time. This is a proven lie. I've shown you documents where the chief of the FBI acknowledges a "George Bush of the CIA" on a memo entitled "Assassination of JFK" ... both Bosh and Carriles were hired by Bush.
3. All kinds of fishy shit involving 911. The 911 Commission report flat out lies about what time Cheney arrived in the command bunker. It ignores Norman Minnetas testimony regarding "of course the order still stands". The FAA deposed all workers by taking recorded statements of their accounts of 911. Their supervisor collected these testimonies and destroyed them in front of everyone. Bush and Cheney wouldn't testify except under the most absolute bullshit of conditions. I've showed you seizmographic evidence of "explosions" all over the twin towers starting more than 3-5 minutes before the collapse started, and increasing in frequency 20 seconds before collapse. We've showed you extensively the lies and deception both by NIST officials, and all the fuck over the NIST reports themselves. We've shown you the pakistani intelligence official who is admitted to have transferred $100k to hijacker Mohammed Atta, and admittedly had a meeting with Rumsfeld, Rice, and Wolfowitz the day before and the day of 911. We've been over the war games, the transfer of "intercept" orders from miltary to cheney, the unsusualy low volume of passengers on all flights involved with 911. We've shown you testimony from countles dozens and hundreds of credentialed individuals who dispute everything that happend that day: CIA ranking officials, state department officials, military officials, long time FAA employees, fighter pilots, engineers, etc etc etc ... all say 911 is a crock of shit.
4. I've showed you that both the guy who "discovered" HIV, and the first and most credentialed "AIDS Denier" were BOTH involved TOGETHER in the "US Special Virus Cancer (Research) Program". And i've showed you the quotes from documents proving beyond a doubt that what the Special Virus Program was attempting to do was create a virus IDENTICAL in description and function to HIV.
5. We've been over Jonestown, and how Dweyer was a CIA agent, and how he lied about not going back to Jonestown after the massacre at the landing strip. How Jim Jones himself is heard just before his strange murder at midnight yelling "get Dweyer out of here before he gets hurt!" ...proving Dweyer went back, and was among the last alive at Jonestown. I've showed that the government lied about the numbers, and that bodies were dragged on top of other bodies. I've showed that Brzezinski ordered their medical tags removed. I've showed that Jonestown had an IDENTICAL list of drugs (psychedelics and all) to that of the MKULTRA program and that there was enough of these drugs to keep the whole goddamn , and place drugged up for probably a decade. They had a ultra-modern hospital, and everyone got a DAILY check up.
6. I've shown you videos of psychiatrists interviewing and discussing Sirhan Sirhan, saying he very clearly was super-duper-ultra succeptible to hypnosis. Court record shows Sirhan repeatedly, continuously, and emphaticaly denied ANY memory of the murder itself, and even is on record saying that the murder "didn't sound like me. wasn't something i would do. it wasn't sane. and i'm sane." ... and i've linked you to audio of police interrogation of a witness that stopped short of abuse to manipulate the record of the interview, CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALY distorting and outright obfuscating the truth about the lady in the polka dot dress. This shows COMPLICITY on account of the authorities!
7. The First WTC Bombing: the NYTimes ran a story clearly explaining that an FBI informant had been duped by the FBI, and that his "terrorist" contacts had been GIVEN A LIVE EXPLOSIVE DEVICE BY THE FBI, and that the informant complained about this when he found out, and that the FBI then proceeded to just remove the informant from the loop, and let the terrorists do the bombing.
8. The Murrah building in Oklahoma City: I've shown you countless news reels of reporters talking of "CONFIRMED REPORTS FROM THE FBI" that there are "MULTIPLE DEVICES STILL IN THE BUILDINGS". I've shown you PROOF that there was a second man in the rental truck. I've shown you the testimony of a man who broke the law by speaking of his involvement as a juror on the Grand Jury for the case, where he is emphatic about the prosecution denying him his rights as a Juror and obfuscating the entirety of the matter, failing to provide him with requested expert witnesses, and witholding requested information (like a sketch of "John Doe #2") from him and the rest of the Jury. I've shown you conclusive EYE WITNESS evidence from MULTIPLE individuals who say this 2nd man was OLIVE SKINNED. I've shown you quotes from the second man, Mr. Nichols, who claims explicitly that McVeigh was set up and duped by the FBI!
9. Next we gonna talk about the Lusitania. Because that is EXTREMELY WELL DOCUMENTED BY HISTORICAL RECORD!
no proof my fucking lilly white, red hair speckled ass.
:cool:
If I opened it now would you not understand?