ironically the mexicans in texas and what not used to be able to roam and hunt in that land as they wished... it wasnt until the white immigrants came and shot them and created an american border that they became 'immigrants' trying to get back onto their own soil!!! how fucked up is that?!?!
You'd prefer that Texas be a gigantic sewer like Mexico?
You'd prefer that Texas be a gigantic sewer like Mexico?
to be honest i couldnt give a flying fuck...
its just that historically it used to be their land... now a nation of immigrants is telling them that if they go onto the land that they used to be able to venture into then they become illegal immigrants...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
its just that historically it used to be their land... now a nation of immigrants is telling them that if they go onto the land that they used to be able to venture into then they become illegal immigrants...
That's true, but what land didn't used to belong to someone else? I know why you feel sorry for mexicans. I saw braveheart. The scotts were taking it in the rear from longshanks and his wimpy son while that hot french chick anguished in that dysfunctional pre-arranged marriage.
But, I just find it really hard to feel sorry for Mexico. For one, they treat americans horribly whenever we decide to immigrate there -legally or illegally.
Before an American can acquire even a temporary visa, he has to provide mexico with countless upon countless forms of documentation which include a statement from the local US police dept. declaring said individual free of any felony convictions. And I didn't even include the bribing that usually needs to happen. Failure to comply results in jail time no questions asked.
Yet, if the US were to require even nearly as many hoops, Mexico would cry foul. This is because their economy benefits in a big way from American dollars being sent back to Mexico via illegal and legal immigrants.
If you don't get it, then you're the one in trouble. But you'll eventually understand when you'll be a fully grown adult
Okay I'll put it another way.
Maybe if the US stop raping the world, there would be more understanding toward the US gov.
Let's say, if they get those 250+ nuclear head out of my damn country, and if the US gov close all those damn military bases they have in all those countries (including mine), then maybe there will be a way to talk.
But as long as the US gov go on raping the world, do not hope anyone to understand your point, or for the matter, the US gov's point.
Don't get me wrong. If a country decide that it's okay to have a US base on their land, it's okay for me. But stop raping countries who don't agree and don't belong to the US.
If you don't get it, then you're the one in trouble. But you'll eventually understand when you'll be a fully grown adult
Okay I'll put it another way.
Maybe if the US stop raping the world, there would be more understanding toward the US gov.
Let's say, if they get those 250+ nuclear head out of my damn country, and if the US gov close all those damn military bases they have in all those countries (including mine), then maybe there will be a way to talk.
But as long as the US gov go on raping the world, do not hope anyone to understand your point, or for the matter, the US gov's point.
Don't get me wrong. If a country decide that it's okay to have a US base on their land, it's okay for me. But stop raping countries who don't agree and don't belong to the US.
That has absolutely nothing to do with mexico and immigration. So, you really don't know what you're talking about. Try again when you understand the issues, and stop pretending that you do.
Not to mention, I somehow doubt you'd say any of this to my face. Why don't you come down here so we can have a face-to-face?
That's true, but what land didn't used to belong to someone else? I know why you feel sorry for mexicans. I saw braveheart. The scotts were taking it in the rear from longshanks and his wimpy son while that hot french chick anguished in that dysfunctional pre-arranged marriage.
is that what happened to the mexicans as well.... what king was that???
dude... its Scots with one T... Scotts with two T's is just a guy's name who owns something
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
people dont think the issue is worked out. this is just a first step. now we have to deal with the millions of illegal immigrants in this country. I like Bush's idea of worker card or program.
you cant compare germany's wall to this one. this wall isnt going up at the mississippi river. its going next to a country that never was part of the US and never will be.
that is true. but some parts of the US were once a part of mexico.
you know i was talking to someone about this today and he reckoned the wall was not a good idea. he suggested landmines. the scary thing is, i don't know whether he was serious or not.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Oh really? Well in this case, you're the one not getting your point accross.
I was merely saying that, before enforcing something like that fence, the US should stop raping other countries.
You can't blame other countries for profiting from the US, when the US does even worse all over the world, and not only since Junior got in place.
I was reacting to your statement that I "might" have misunderstood, which was: yeah, it's crap we got the mexicans banned from their land a long time ago, but now we're there and they don't have the right to come back. bad luck.
Oh really? Well in this case, you're the one not getting your point accross.
I was merely saying that, before enforcing something like that fence, the US should stop raping other countries.
You can't blame other countries for profiting from the US, when the US does even worse all over the world, and not only since Junior got in place.
I was reacting to your statement that I "might" have misunderstood, which was: yeah, it's crap we got the mexicans banned from their land a long time ago, but now we're there and they don't have the right to come back. bad luck.
No, you were trying to say that building a fence to keep out illegal immigrants is like putting jews into concentration camps.
So, now you want to make it an issue of priorities? Sure, I'll agree with you on that. It sucks that our politicians are more concerned about US interests in foriegn natural resources more than the massive build-up of sewage in the pacific ocean.
Meanwhile, something cheap and quick has to be done to at least stop a portion of them from coming over. A fence ain't gonna do it. An electric one with landmines will do it.
And for all of you who think that it's unfair to keep them out of land that at one time was theirs, let me just say this:
The reason why they're coming here is because it isn't mexico. Mexico is broke and corrupted beyond imagination. If they still owned this land, this land would be broke and corrupt too. In which, they'd just migrate to wherever there wasn't poverty and unrestricted corruption.
That's why if you don't live here, you run the risk of sounding incredibly uninformed. Ur pissed about our foreign policy. That's fine. But, don't let that think that makes you some kind of expert on how we deal with our own domestic issues. Live here and then talk. I guarantee you'd be singing a different tune -especially if you lived in socal.
I agree with you, I might not fully understand the situation of US immigration, because I don't live there.
Saying that, you agree with my point. Get all those US base and weapons back to your land. Once it is done, come back here and we can go on talking.
Immigration is the exact same problem everywhere. The US complain about mexicans, the German about polnish, russian, turkish immigrant. In France it's the north africans, and so on, and so on...
to what I wrote "sounds a bit like "let's get those jews in camp"."
Oh, you mean summer camp?
Merely pointing out that any kind of repressive measure toward one specific race, nationality, religion, whatever, is fascism.
Yes, that would be facsim. However, We're not directing it towards any specific any one of those. It just so happens that our largest immigration problem is occuring on our southern border. Sucks it had to be mexico. I really do like those mexicans.
So now that I made it clear to you, maybe you can answer better than "you have no idea... You don't know... You're not getting the point..."
That's all you were able to do until now.
that fence is directly aimed at mexicans. it is facism.
There are other ways to deal with that, and it should have been done a long time ago.
Now I hear "we need those extreme measure NOW"
Sure, because now one bothered to work out the problem when it was still time. Like usual, things went ahtray, and now the gov calls for desperate measures.
I don't call that democracy.
What Bush did since some time now, is just to go more and more on repression. Now he is cornered, and the only exits is fascism. There are other ways.
And you don't need to answer to that last line, it's what 4/5 of the world is crying out loud.
So now that I made it clear to you, maybe you can answer better than "you have no idea... You don't know... You're not getting the point..."
That's all you were able to do until now.
That's because you were trying to explain your views through totally unrelated semantics. Once you started actually saying what you were really thinking, then I was able to respond accordingly.
that fence is directly aimed at mexicans. it is facism.
There are other ways to deal with that, and it should have been done a long time ago.
It's aimed at immigration. It just so happens that Mexicans are primarily the ones who are doing the immigrating. If the canadians were doing the same thing, we'd be building a fence up there too.
Now I hear "we need those extreme measure NOW"
Sure, because now one bothered to work out the problem when it was still time. Like usual, things went ahtray, and now the gov calls for desperate measures.
I don't call that democracy.
What Bush did since some time now, is just to go more and more on repression. Now he is cornered, and the only exits is fascism. There are other ways.
Other ways, huh? You have some ideas on how to solve our immigration problem. Do you realize we have been giving billions in aid to mexico? Do you know where that money goes? What should be we do then, start arresting their politicians for squandering our aid?
There's always the solution of solving the problem from the causation end, which is to fine businesses who hire illegal immigrants. But, business has too much influence in government politics. Even then, our government resources could not possibly conduct enough audits on businesses to make a difference. The IRS can barely stem tax fraud.
We could also maybe stop buying drugs that are smuggled through mexico. Then the drug dealers who control mexico's government would no longer have the money to buy off all of mexico's politicians.
Those would be some solutions. Sure. But, it's easier to build a fence. Those fences will surely be breached, so maybe we'll have some guards there and some fence repairmen handy.
BTW, this fence IS democracy. The fence is being built because a lot of americans believe it will offer a solution. Up until recently no one really gave that much of a shit because immigration only affected certain states who had just kind of gotten used to it. A breakdown in democracy occurs when a majority of people are crying for change, and those cries are not being heard. Never before have a majority of anybody really called for a solution to the immigration problem.
Look, you can't expect people to do what YOU want to do.
You are talking like if it was a question of life or death, and it isn't.
Yes, the US gov should punish the US people who hires illegal immigrant.
But they won't do that, becaue then it would be punishing the US industry.
And the gov don't want that.
As other people stated, it seems very hard for hispanics to get a visa. the harder it'll be, the more you can expect illegal immigrants.
The US gov should do like for afghanistan, or irak. Mexico i a threat, so let's go over there (plus the boys wouldn't be that far from home), then overthrow the mexican gov
the rest should be easy ^^
pardon me if I don't managed to get my point across immediatly, english isn't my mother language. But for that, I could explain you in two or three other languages
Uh, let's see...no I'm not. You like to start off most of your posts with some kind of condescending remark. Do you want to discuss this or just talk some shit? Which is it?
Look, you can't expect people to do what YOU want to do.
And no one ever said I did expect that. That's why there's a fence. Mexicans aren't doing what WE want them to do. which is stay out.
You are talking like if it was a question of life or death, and it isn't.
I'm talking as if it was a question of standard of living, which it most definitely is.
Yes, the US gov should punish the US people who hires illegal immigrant.
But they won't do that, becaue then it would be punishing the US industry.
That's what I said.
And the gov don't want that.
I said that too. Do I need to start copyrighting my posts?
As other people stated, it seems very hard for hispanics to get a visa. the harder it'll be, the more you can expect illegal immigrants.
The reason why it's harder is because we don't need 'em. We should start making illegal immigration legal just so it isn't illegal anymore?
The US gov should do like for afghanistan, or irak. Mexico i a threat, so let's go over there (plus the boys wouldn't be that far from home), then overthrow the mexican gov
the rest should be easy ^^
Now you're talking. No, seriously. You make a really good point there. I'm glad this conversation has now officially moved forward.
Walking into Mexico and taking it over would be an extremely good idea that Mexico would undoubtedly benefit from. There wouldn't be any insurgents to f things up.
And here's why I think we don't do that. For one, Mexico is, on the surface, a democracy. Remember, we americans justify our imerialism by setting up a supposed "democracy" for the conquered country. Mexico already has that democracy. It's just a really, really corrupt democracy. To make a difference, we'd literally have to annex mexico and install our own home-grown politicians. That would be too over the top even by our standards.
Secondly, Mexico shares its southern-most border with freaking central america. Nobody wants a border with central america. The mexicans watch that border like hawks. No thanks.
pardon me if I don't managed to get my point across immediatly, english isn't my mother language. But for that, I could explain you in two or three other languages
You knew enough to insult me, and I know you understand enligh quite well. Your trip for the most part has been to come across like I'm beneath you or something. I'm sorry you hate america's foeign policy that much. We can have a conversation, or you can keep pretending to be holier than thou art. No, I don't speak foeign languages. It's because I'm a stupid american. Feel better now?
Walking into Mexico and taking it over would be an extremely good idea that Mexico would undoubtedly benefit from. There wouldn't be any insurgents to f things up.
Comments
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
You'd prefer that Texas be a gigantic sewer like Mexico?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
to be honest i couldnt give a flying fuck...
its just that historically it used to be their land... now a nation of immigrants is telling them that if they go onto the land that they used to be able to venture into then they become illegal immigrants...
That's true, but what land didn't used to belong to someone else? I know why you feel sorry for mexicans. I saw braveheart. The scotts were taking it in the rear from longshanks and his wimpy son while that hot french chick anguished in that dysfunctional pre-arranged marriage.
But, I just find it really hard to feel sorry for Mexico. For one, they treat americans horribly whenever we decide to immigrate there -legally or illegally.
Before an American can acquire even a temporary visa, he has to provide mexico with countless upon countless forms of documentation which include a statement from the local US police dept. declaring said individual free of any felony convictions. And I didn't even include the bribing that usually needs to happen. Failure to comply results in jail time no questions asked.
Yet, if the US were to require even nearly as many hoops, Mexico would cry foul. This is because their economy benefits in a big way from American dollars being sent back to Mexico via illegal and legal immigrants.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Seems to work on the Korean Peninsula
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
They were bad with americans, so now america has the right to make them pay?
Strange, it wasn't the arguments used at the beginning of this debate about the fence
Who said anything about making them pay? They just need to stay out. Is that what you call "paying"?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Sometimes, I wonder how small minded people can listen to pearl jam.
Well I'll translate in your words, Sponger.
"They just need to stay out." sounds a bit like "let's get those jews in camp".
I'm sorry you can't see the difference. I'd like to see you explain the similarities. I will then applaud your creativity.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Okay I'll put it another way.
Maybe if the US stop raping the world, there would be more understanding toward the US gov.
Let's say, if they get those 250+ nuclear head out of my damn country, and if the US gov close all those damn military bases they have in all those countries (including mine), then maybe there will be a way to talk.
But as long as the US gov go on raping the world, do not hope anyone to understand your point, or for the matter, the US gov's point.
Don't get me wrong. If a country decide that it's okay to have a US base on their land, it's okay for me. But stop raping countries who don't agree and don't belong to the US.
That has absolutely nothing to do with mexico and immigration. So, you really don't know what you're talking about. Try again when you understand the issues, and stop pretending that you do.
Not to mention, I somehow doubt you'd say any of this to my face. Why don't you come down here so we can have a face-to-face?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
is that what happened to the mexicans as well.... what king was that???
dude... its Scots with one T... Scotts with two T's is just a guy's name who owns something
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
that is true. but some parts of the US were once a part of mexico.
you know i was talking to someone about this today and he reckoned the wall was not a good idea. he suggested landmines. the scary thing is, i don't know whether he was serious or not.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I was merely saying that, before enforcing something like that fence, the US should stop raping other countries.
You can't blame other countries for profiting from the US, when the US does even worse all over the world, and not only since Junior got in place.
I was reacting to your statement that I "might" have misunderstood, which was: yeah, it's crap we got the mexicans banned from their land a long time ago, but now we're there and they don't have the right to come back. bad luck.
Well some time ago I would have just done that. But now, why would I come?
I guess you're the one who should come here and explain
But then again, after what you're saying, I guess you must be scared to leave the US ^^
No, you were trying to say that building a fence to keep out illegal immigrants is like putting jews into concentration camps.
So, now you want to make it an issue of priorities? Sure, I'll agree with you on that. It sucks that our politicians are more concerned about US interests in foriegn natural resources more than the massive build-up of sewage in the pacific ocean.
Meanwhile, something cheap and quick has to be done to at least stop a portion of them from coming over. A fence ain't gonna do it. An electric one with landmines will do it.
And for all of you who think that it's unfair to keep them out of land that at one time was theirs, let me just say this:
The reason why they're coming here is because it isn't mexico. Mexico is broke and corrupted beyond imagination. If they still owned this land, this land would be broke and corrupt too. In which, they'd just migrate to wherever there wasn't poverty and unrestricted corruption.
That's why if you don't live here, you run the risk of sounding incredibly uninformed. Ur pissed about our foreign policy. That's fine. But, don't let that think that makes you some kind of expert on how we deal with our own domestic issues. Live here and then talk. I guarantee you'd be singing a different tune -especially if you lived in socal.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
wtf? you don't live in the US? And you're trying to explain to us our immigration policies? no wonder you sound so lost and uninformed.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
So you got my point after all.
I agree with you, I might not fully understand the situation of US immigration, because I don't live there.
Saying that, you agree with my point. Get all those US base and weapons back to your land. Once it is done, come back here and we can go on talking.
Immigration is the exact same problem everywhere. The US complain about mexicans, the German about polnish, russian, turkish immigrant. In France it's the north africans, and so on, and so on...
If you were trying to make that point by bringing up nazi concentration camps, then I don't understand how anyone would've understood it.
And I know about Germany and its immigration woes. My younger brother was in a german street gang that frequently assaulted turkish teen rivals.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
you wrote "They just need to stay out."
to what I wrote "sounds a bit like "let's get those jews in camp"."
You went on like I said more, which I didn't.
Merely pointing out that any kind of repressive measure toward one specific race, nationality, religion, whatever, is fascism.
Oh, you mean summer camp?
Yes, that would be facsim. However, We're not directing it towards any specific any one of those. It just so happens that our largest immigration problem is occuring on our southern border. Sucks it had to be mexico. I really do like those mexicans.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
That's all you were able to do until now.
that fence is directly aimed at mexicans. it is facism.
There are other ways to deal with that, and it should have been done a long time ago.
Now I hear "we need those extreme measure NOW"
Sure, because now one bothered to work out the problem when it was still time. Like usual, things went ahtray, and now the gov calls for desperate measures.
I don't call that democracy.
What Bush did since some time now, is just to go more and more on repression. Now he is cornered, and the only exits is fascism. There are other ways.
And you don't need to answer to that last line, it's what 4/5 of the world is crying out loud.
That's because you were trying to explain your views through totally unrelated semantics. Once you started actually saying what you were really thinking, then I was able to respond accordingly.
It's aimed at immigration. It just so happens that Mexicans are primarily the ones who are doing the immigrating. If the canadians were doing the same thing, we'd be building a fence up there too.
Other ways, huh? You have some ideas on how to solve our immigration problem. Do you realize we have been giving billions in aid to mexico? Do you know where that money goes? What should be we do then, start arresting their politicians for squandering our aid?
There's always the solution of solving the problem from the causation end, which is to fine businesses who hire illegal immigrants. But, business has too much influence in government politics. Even then, our government resources could not possibly conduct enough audits on businesses to make a difference. The IRS can barely stem tax fraud.
We could also maybe stop buying drugs that are smuggled through mexico. Then the drug dealers who control mexico's government would no longer have the money to buy off all of mexico's politicians.
Those would be some solutions. Sure. But, it's easier to build a fence. Those fences will surely be breached, so maybe we'll have some guards there and some fence repairmen handy.
BTW, this fence IS democracy. The fence is being built because a lot of americans believe it will offer a solution. Up until recently no one really gave that much of a shit because immigration only affected certain states who had just kind of gotten used to it. A breakdown in democracy occurs when a majority of people are crying for change, and those cries are not being heard. Never before have a majority of anybody really called for a solution to the immigration problem.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Look, you can't expect people to do what YOU want to do.
You are talking like if it was a question of life or death, and it isn't.
Yes, the US gov should punish the US people who hires illegal immigrant.
But they won't do that, becaue then it would be punishing the US industry.
And the gov don't want that.
As other people stated, it seems very hard for hispanics to get a visa. the harder it'll be, the more you can expect illegal immigrants.
The US gov should do like for afghanistan, or irak. Mexico i a threat, so let's go over there (plus the boys wouldn't be that far from home), then overthrow the mexican gov
the rest should be easy ^^
pardon me if I don't managed to get my point across immediatly, english isn't my mother language. But for that, I could explain you in two or three other languages
Uh, let's see...no I'm not. You like to start off most of your posts with some kind of condescending remark. Do you want to discuss this or just talk some shit? Which is it?
And no one ever said I did expect that. That's why there's a fence. Mexicans aren't doing what WE want them to do. which is stay out.
I'm talking as if it was a question of standard of living, which it most definitely is.
That's what I said.
I said that too. Do I need to start copyrighting my posts?
The reason why it's harder is because we don't need 'em. We should start making illegal immigration legal just so it isn't illegal anymore?
Now you're talking. No, seriously. You make a really good point there. I'm glad this conversation has now officially moved forward.
Walking into Mexico and taking it over would be an extremely good idea that Mexico would undoubtedly benefit from. There wouldn't be any insurgents to f things up.
And here's why I think we don't do that. For one, Mexico is, on the surface, a democracy. Remember, we americans justify our imerialism by setting up a supposed "democracy" for the conquered country. Mexico already has that democracy. It's just a really, really corrupt democracy. To make a difference, we'd literally have to annex mexico and install our own home-grown politicians. That would be too over the top even by our standards.
Secondly, Mexico shares its southern-most border with freaking central america. Nobody wants a border with central america. The mexicans watch that border like hawks. No thanks.
You knew enough to insult me, and I know you understand enligh quite well. Your trip for the most part has been to come across like I'm beneath you or something. I'm sorry you hate america's foeign policy that much. We can have a conversation, or you can keep pretending to be holier than thou art. No, I don't speak foeign languages. It's because I'm a stupid american. Feel better now?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
www.amnesty.org.uk
Wow. Another person who needs the situation explained to him. Where do I begin?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825