The U.S. government depends on the taxpayers’ money to finance its programs like welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps as well as law enforcement. An estimated 13 percent of this funding is used to support illegal immigrants. Dozens of hospitals along the border went bankrupt because of free emergency room for illegal aliens. They cost the United States over $24 billion year in taxpayers’ money. Alone half a billion dollars per year are required to incarcerate illegal immigrants and the Center of Immigration Studies in Washington says, that immigrants are 75 percent more likely to use food stamps, medical benefits and housing assistance than natives, producing at a cost of $68 billion per year.23 According to a report of the National Academy of Sciences, the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. It is obvious that there is a large monetary burden for the taxpayer created by illegal immigration.
Furthermore, $60 billion are earned by illegal Mexican immigrants each year. Money sent home by illegal immigrants working in the U.S is one of Mexico’s largest revenue streams, after exports and oil sales. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, $10 billion are annually sent back to Mexico. Experts say, that this money helps to reduce the country’s debts and to bolster the peso. This figure equals to the amount of money Mexico earns with tourism each year. That is a massive transfer of wealth from America, especially from the poor working class to Mexico.
As it is the case in all Western countries, each individual must be able to pay a certain amount of taxes to cover his use of public services. Families with income below the poverty line pay very little taxes. In addition to these very low tax contributions, the poor are the main beneficiaries of welfare programs such as Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, Supplemental Security Income, Food Stamps and subsidized housing. So if immigration further increases the size of the poor population, it is likely that there will be a negative effects on the public system.
Education
It is also evident that immigrants and their children cause higher educational costs without being able to pay for the them. In Colorado for example, an annual cost of $50 million goes towards educating immigrant children from Mexico and $141 million towards educating illegal aliens. This amount would be enough to buy books, computers and more for every K-12 student in the state. In addition, some Spanish speaking communities along the border demand Spanish speaking schools, causing even higher costs for the state.
Almost two thirds of the adult Mexican immigrants have not finished high school and Mexicans accounts for about a third of all high school dropouts in the labor force, which is two and a half times that of natives.
Drug Trafficking
It also appears that illegal immigration is closely linked to the drug trafficking problem. Hundreds of illegal immigrants carrying drugs are weekly attempting to cross the border, supported with vehicles, fraudulent identification papers and information about thebest points of entry by Mexican drug lords. In some cases, both U.S. and Mexican Custom’s officials are corrupted to look the other way to ensure an easy crossing of the border.
80 percent of cocaine and 50 percent of heroin reaching America is smuggled across the border by Mexicans, most of them illegal immigrants. Drug cartels spend half a billion dollars per year bribing Mexico’s corrupt military and police officials, which also poses a serious threat to U.S. Border Patrol agents.
First, why pretend that the spending on illegal immigrants is their fault??? We passed those stupid laws that force us to pay for everyone's emergency care. They had no say in it, so I'm not going to blame them for our stupidity. I'm not going to group all immigrants (illegal or otherwise) into some leech category and then prevent them from coming here when it would make much, much, much more sense to simply remove the laws that force me to support them.
Secondly, I don't care about drug trafficking since I'm neither a drug user nor a person who believes I have a right to tell you what substances you can or cannot put in your body. Again, why treat immigrants (illegal or otherwise) as drug traffickers when the vast majority are not?
Here's the problem with your logic: you're oppressing a massive group of people for a myriad of crimes of which only a few of them are guilty. Should we just remove all black people from this country because blacks have a higher rate of crime than whites despite the fact that we'd be punishing more innocent people than guilty ones? Of course not. Should we euthanize people the day they turn 65 because people over 65 cost the government far more than they pay into it? It makes no sense.
I refuse to punish foreigners who wish to come to this nation for my mistakes.
First, why pretend that the spending on illegal immigrants is their fault??? We passed those stupid laws that force us to pay for everyone's emergency care. They had no say in it, so I'm not going to blame them for our stupidity. I'm not going to group all immigrants (illegal or otherwise) into some leech category and then prevent them from coming here when it would make much, much, much more sense to simply remove the laws that force me to support them.
Secondly, I don't care about drug trafficking since I'm neither a drug user nor a person who believes I have a right to tell you what substances you can or cannot put in your body. Again, why treat immigrants (illegal or otherwise) as drug traffickers when the vast majority are not?
Here's the problem with your logic: you're oppressing a massive group of people for a myriad of crimes of which only a few of them are guilty. Should we just remove all black people from this country because blacks have a higher rate of crime than whites despite the fact that we'd be punishing more innocent people than guilty ones? Of course not. Should we euthanize people the day they turn 65 because people over 65 cost the government far more than they pay into it? It makes no sense.
I refuse to punish foreigners who wish to come to this nation for my mistakes.
As I refuse to have compassion for those who come into our country illegally and abuse our welfare system.............not saying that all of them do..........just the majority of them in my community, with big screen TVs and Lowriders and other shit that I can't efford yet am paying for.
As I refuse to have compassion for those who come into our country illegally and abuse our welfare system.............
I don't want you to have compassion for them. Compassion is completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.
I simply want you to understand that your freedoms extend from the same natural rights as theirs' do. And if think you have the right to deny them those freedoms you have no right to protest when the tables are turned.
not saying that all of them do..........just the majority of them in my community, with big screen TVs and Lowriders and other shit that I can't efford yet am paying for.
I cannot agree more. But, again, it is not their fault that we setup the system that way.
If, for any reason, you don't want to pay for an illegal immigrant's heart surgery, education, lowriders, tvs, whatever.....I'm perfectly ok with that. But if you think, for any reason, you have a fundamental right to prevent someone from participating in the wonders this nation has to offer, I can only ask you on what grounds you think you have a right to participate?
The thing is, those numbers are abstract. 50% blah blah here, 80% blah blah there.
I'm pretty sure it's not even close to reality.
Of course, when you buying in propaganda, then everything a gov says make sense, but only because THEY are responsible for that same propaganda.
Saying lies loud don't make it any more real. I had the same kind of talk on another forum some time ago, where a guy had pretty much the same ideas exposed, but about WMD and Irak.
His point was, since there are WDM in Irak, the US should attack.
What a waste of money.....if a river won't keep illegal immigrants out, and if an ocean won't keep them from coming into Florida, what make them think a fence will keep them out? this is one of the largest wastes of the public's money I've seen...well, ok,, not the largest, but it is right up there.
I don't want you to have compassion for them. Compassion is completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.
I simply want you to understand that your freedoms extend from the same natural rights as theirs' do. And if think you have the right to deny them those freedoms you have no right to protest when the tables are turned.
I cannot agree more. But, again, it is not their fault that we setup the system that way.
If, for any reason, you don't want to pay for an illegal immigrant's heart surgery, education, lowriders, tvs, whatever.....I'm perfectly ok with that. But if you think, for any reason, you have a fundamental right to prevent someone from participating in the wonders this nation has to offer, I can only ask you on what grounds you think you have a right to participate?
Grounds.........hmmm, I pay for my house, tv, vehicle........I pay taxes and insurance for my medical benifits..........I legally participate in the "wonders this nation has to offer". Again, I don't think that a stupid fence is going to solve the problem, but I can see why a solution is being saught.
What we're really saying is that the US are wanting to keep less advantaged hispanics from entering their country illegally. Going back to a northern border... would they be doing the same thing in trying to keep white canadians from coming in (illegally - not that they seem to want to!)
The thing is, those numbers are abstract. 50% blah blah here, 80% blah blah there.
I'm pretty sure it's not even close to reality.
Of course, when you buying in propaganda, then everything a gov says make sense, but only because THEY are responsible for that same propaganda.
Saying lies loud don't make it any more real. I had the same kind of talk on another forum some time ago, where a guy had pretty much the same ideas exposed, but about WMD and Irak.
His point was, since there are WDM in Irak, the US should attack.
See where I'm going?
Who's to say you are not unwittingly buying into propoganda from another source? Where do you get your information regarding illegel immigration?
What we're really saying is that the US are wanting to keep less advantaged hispanics from entering their country illegally. Going back to a northern border... would they be doing the same thing in trying to keep white canadians from coming in (illegally - not that they seem to want to!)
Are you trying to say that we are wanting to keep less advantaged from comming simply because they are less advantaged? That's a pretty lame argument. The president signing a bill for political grounds seems to be a more practical one.
I have a crazy idea -- let's see how much hate this one generates.
"Illegal immigrants" come to this country looking for jobs, right? Supposedly, they come and do all the jobs that Americans won't do. So that means some employer is HIRING all these folks even though it's illegal to do so.
So how about we start penalizing the employers who hire illegal immigrants? And maybe we could even fine them and collect money from employers who hire people without proper documentation. And we could use the money to hire more immigration inspectors to go around and check up on employers.
Maybe we could even use the money to build that lovely billion dollar fence.
"Things will just get better and better even though it
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
I have a crazy idea -- let's see how much hate this one generates.
"Illegal immigrants" come to this country looking for jobs, right? Supposedly, they come and do all the jobs that Americans won't do. So that means some employer is HIRING all these folks even though it's illegal to do so.
So how about we start penalizing the employers who hire illegal immigrants? And maybe we could even fine them and collect money from employers who hire people without proper documentation. And we could use the money to hire more immigration inspectors to go around and check up on employers.
Maybe we could even use the money to build that lovely billion dollar fence.
we can't penalize employers...they're freakin republicans. Reason for fence.
we can't penalize employers...they're freakin republicans. Reason for fence.
Silly me . . . what was I thinkin'!!!
Actually, it came on me like a flash of light one day. We erect all these barriers to immigration, and then we get to stamp people who don't comply with the label "illegal" -- and that's just another word for "will work cheap." Like when Haliburton hired 100 illegal immigrants to clean up after Katrina. Because there was no one in N.O who was out of work and needed a job or anything like that.
"Things will just get better and better even though it
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
Grounds.........hmmm, I pay for my house, tv, vehicle........I pay taxes and insurance for my medical benifits..........I legally participate in the "wonders this nation has to offer".
Hehe.....
Do you not understand what you're saying here? You're saying that the only right you have to participate in American freedom is the fact that you "pay". In effect, you're saying that you've bought your freedom which implies that it wasn't yours to begin with. And that makes me wonder how in God's name you'll deal with a situation wherein someone changes that "legality" and attempts to deprive you of that participation.
This fence has to be the most ridiculous idea. I'm not even going to get into the discussion of wether illegals should be allowed to stay or not. this is such an bullshit idea and it's obvious that it was signed just weeks before the election in order to show that the GOP is tough on illegal immigration. Let's waste more tax payer money, the only thing this administration is good at, to build a 700 miles fence along a 2,000 mile border. That would be like a trauma surgeon using a band aid to close a served artery.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
This fence has to be the most ridiculous idea. I'm not even going to get into the discussion of wether illegals should be allowed to stay or not. this is such an bullshit idea and it's obvious that it was signed just weeks before the election in order to show that the GOP is tough on illegal immigration. Let's waste more tax payer money, the only thing this administration is good at, to build a 700 miles fence along a 2,000 mile border. That would be like a trauma surgeon using a band aid to close a served artery.
I agree...I have to admit, I was on the "stop illegal immigration" side when this debate first began months ago, however, in reading, watching, and re-thinking my stance...I've come to this conclusion: who cares...
who cares if somebody is here with or without papers...if that person is willing to work hard and better their life for themselves and their families, who cares...? if they are respectful of others, take care of themselves, and work hard, who cares if they are here...
this fence is going to cost billions of dollars...I contend that money would be better spent addressing the problem, rather that building a billion dollar fence that really won't stop anything....it's like putting perfume on a pig...
I agree...I have to admit, I was on the "stop illegal immigration" side when this debate first began months ago, however, in reading, watching, and re-thinking my stance...I've come to this conclusion: who cares...
who cares if somebody is here with or without papers...if that person is willing to work hard and better their life for themselves and their families, who cares...? if they are respectful of others, take care of themselves, and work hard, who cares if they are here...
this fence is going to cost billions of dollars...I contend that money would be better spent addressing the problem, rather that building a billion dollar fence that really won't stop anything....it's like putting perfume on a pig...
Do you not understand what you're saying here? You're saying that the only right you have to participate in American freedom is the fact that you "pay". In effect, you're saying that you've bought your freedom which implies that it wasn't yours to begin with. And that makes me wonder how in God's name you'll deal with a situation wherein someone changes that "legality" and attempts to deprive you of that participation.
Evidently, YOU are the one that doesn't understand what I'm saying here. I am SAYING that the reason that I have what I have and enjoy the things that I enjoy is because I have worked for them and go by laws of the society in which I live, not because they have been given to me. Others "payed" in the past so we could have our freedom........It makes me wonder how "in God's name" you'll spin what I'm saying to impose your spin on what is going on in your own head this time.......MORON!
I agree...I have to admit, I was on the "stop illegal immigration" side when this debate first began months ago, however, in reading, watching, and re-thinking my stance...I've come to this conclusion: who cares...
who cares if somebody is here with or without papers...if that person is willing to work hard and better their life for themselves and their families, who cares...? if they are respectful of others, take care of themselves, and work hard, who cares if they are here...
this fence is going to cost billions of dollars...I contend that money would be better spent addressing the problem, rather that building a billion dollar fence that really won't stop anything....it's like putting perfume on a pig...
No one cares about the people that are willing to work hard for their families, be respectful of others, take care of themselves.......................But it's the ones on the opposite side of the spectrum that is ruining the name of them all.................the ones that take advantage of others, make others take care of them, and do not work that I care about and do not want to have anything to do with.
Evidently, YOU are the one that doesn't understand what I'm saying here. I am SAYING that the reason that I have what I have and enjoy the things that I enjoy is because I have worked for them and go by laws of the society in which I live, not because they have been given to me. Others "payed" in the past so we could have our freedom........It makes me wonder how "in God's name" you'll spin what I'm saying to impose your spin on what is going on in your own head this time.......MORON!
people keep bringing up the "law"...I wonder, have you ever broken a law...? speeding, perhaps....had a couple of drinks and got behind the wheel, maybe..? or even enjoyed a left-handed cigarette...? does that take away from the fact you worked hard and earned your keep...? I say "no"...what do you say...?
No one cares about the people that are willing to work hard for their families, be respectful of others, take care of themselves.......................But it's the ones on the opposite side of the spectrum that is ruining the name of them all.................the ones that take advantage of others, make others take care of them, and do not work that I care about and do not want to have anything to do with.
I agree...I'm willing to bet we have many, many red-blooded Americans who sit on their ass all day, rob the system, and teach their kids to do the same...what you are talking about is a system and a people problem...not a immigration problem....
I agree...I have to admit, I was on the "stop illegal immigration" side when this debate first began months ago, however, in reading, watching, and re-thinking my stance...I've come to this conclusion: who cares...
who cares if somebody is here with or without papers...if that person is willing to work hard and better their life for themselves and their families, who cares...? if they are respectful of others, take care of themselves, and work hard, who cares if they are here...
this fence is going to cost billions of dollars...I contend that money would be better spent addressing the problem, rather that building a billion dollar fence that really won't stop anything....it's like putting perfume on a pig...
Nicely said. I undersatnd that illegal immigration does cost this country money, but compared to the insane amounts of money our government spends on other things it is a small drop in the bucket. But what other type of reaction would you expect from our government. When ever there is a problem their response is to simply throw money at it. If doing that doesn't solve the problem it at least project the apperance that something is being done and helps their re-election efforts.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
people keep bringing up the "law"...I wonder, have you ever broken a law...? speeding, perhaps....had a couple of drinks and got behind the wheel, maybe..? or even enjoyed a left-handed cigarette...? does that take away from the fact you worked hard and earned your keep...? I say "no"...what do you say...?
No, but if I stopped paying my taxes, started driving on the wrong side of the road, never stopped at stop lights, and started taking money from people........I doubt that I would be very accepted by society............Oh, what is this? Do certain laws weigh more than others..................??? I love it how people like you always look at the black and white.
Are you trying to say that we are wanting to keep less advantaged from comming simply because they are less advantaged? That's a pretty lame argument. The president signing a bill for political grounds seems to be a more practical one.
No... note the "hispanics" in bold. I'm sure if they were caucasians, it wouldn't seem so bad to a lot of people...
Evidently, YOU are the one that doesn't understand what I'm saying here. I am SAYING that the reason that I have what I have and enjoy the things that I enjoy is because I have worked for them and go by laws of the society in which I live, not because they have been given to me. Others "payed" in the past so we could have our freedom........It makes me wonder how "in God's name" you'll spin what I'm saying to impose your spin on what is going on in your own head this time.......MORON!
I'm sorry, you cannot have it both ways. If your freedoms and rights to participate in this nation are derived from your work and your lawful behavior (rather than vice versa), those freedoms and those rights are at the mercy of those for who you work and those who you obey. Which in turn means they can all be lost at the whim of another.
I agree...I'm willing to bet we have many, many red-blooded Americans who sit on their ass all day, rob the system, and teach their kids to do the same...what you are talking about is a system and a people problem...not a immigration problem....
Unless there are a overwhelming number of immigrants doing so..........
Comments
Then let's remove the laws that make it illegal.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
You're really buying that propaganda bullshit?
Secondly, I don't care about drug trafficking since I'm neither a drug user nor a person who believes I have a right to tell you what substances you can or cannot put in your body. Again, why treat immigrants (illegal or otherwise) as drug traffickers when the vast majority are not?
Here's the problem with your logic: you're oppressing a massive group of people for a myriad of crimes of which only a few of them are guilty. Should we just remove all black people from this country because blacks have a higher rate of crime than whites despite the fact that we'd be punishing more innocent people than guilty ones? Of course not. Should we euthanize people the day they turn 65 because people over 65 cost the government far more than they pay into it? It makes no sense.
I refuse to punish foreigners who wish to come to this nation for my mistakes.
I think they are much more hardcore on the issue then I, but the numbers dont lie.
I don't want you to have compassion for them. Compassion is completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.
I simply want you to understand that your freedoms extend from the same natural rights as theirs' do. And if think you have the right to deny them those freedoms you have no right to protest when the tables are turned.
I cannot agree more. But, again, it is not their fault that we setup the system that way.
If, for any reason, you don't want to pay for an illegal immigrant's heart surgery, education, lowriders, tvs, whatever.....I'm perfectly ok with that. But if you think, for any reason, you have a fundamental right to prevent someone from participating in the wonders this nation has to offer, I can only ask you on what grounds you think you have a right to participate?
I'm pretty sure it's not even close to reality.
Of course, when you buying in propaganda, then everything a gov says make sense, but only because THEY are responsible for that same propaganda.
Saying lies loud don't make it any more real. I had the same kind of talk on another forum some time ago, where a guy had pretty much the same ideas exposed, but about WMD and Irak.
His point was, since there are WDM in Irak, the US should attack.
See where I'm going?
And it's ALSO a political argument...
"Illegal immigrants" come to this country looking for jobs, right? Supposedly, they come and do all the jobs that Americans won't do. So that means some employer is HIRING all these folks even though it's illegal to do so.
So how about we start penalizing the employers who hire illegal immigrants? And maybe we could even fine them and collect money from employers who hire people without proper documentation. And we could use the money to hire more immigration inspectors to go around and check up on employers.
Maybe we could even use the money to build that lovely billion dollar fence.
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
-- EV, Live at the Showbox
we can't penalize employers...they're freakin republicans. Reason for fence.
Actually, it came on me like a flash of light one day. We erect all these barriers to immigration, and then we get to stamp people who don't comply with the label "illegal" -- and that's just another word for "will work cheap." Like when Haliburton hired 100 illegal immigrants to clean up after Katrina. Because there was no one in N.O who was out of work and needed a job or anything like that.
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
-- EV, Live at the Showbox
Hehe.....
Do you not understand what you're saying here? You're saying that the only right you have to participate in American freedom is the fact that you "pay". In effect, you're saying that you've bought your freedom which implies that it wasn't yours to begin with. And that makes me wonder how in God's name you'll deal with a situation wherein someone changes that "legality" and attempts to deprive you of that participation.
I agree...I have to admit, I was on the "stop illegal immigration" side when this debate first began months ago, however, in reading, watching, and re-thinking my stance...I've come to this conclusion: who cares...
who cares if somebody is here with or without papers...if that person is willing to work hard and better their life for themselves and their families, who cares...? if they are respectful of others, take care of themselves, and work hard, who cares if they are here...
this fence is going to cost billions of dollars...I contend that money would be better spent addressing the problem, rather that building a billion dollar fence that really won't stop anything....it's like putting perfume on a pig...
Nice post.
people keep bringing up the "law"...I wonder, have you ever broken a law...? speeding, perhaps....had a couple of drinks and got behind the wheel, maybe..? or even enjoyed a left-handed cigarette...? does that take away from the fact you worked hard and earned your keep...? I say "no"...what do you say...?
I agree...I'm willing to bet we have many, many red-blooded Americans who sit on their ass all day, rob the system, and teach their kids to do the same...what you are talking about is a system and a people problem...not a immigration problem....
Nicely said. I undersatnd that illegal immigration does cost this country money, but compared to the insane amounts of money our government spends on other things it is a small drop in the bucket. But what other type of reaction would you expect from our government. When ever there is a problem their response is to simply throw money at it. If doing that doesn't solve the problem it at least project the apperance that something is being done and helps their re-election efforts.
No... note the "hispanics" in bold. I'm sure if they were caucasians, it wouldn't seem so bad to a lot of people...
I'm sorry, you cannot have it both ways. If your freedoms and rights to participate in this nation are derived from your work and your lawful behavior (rather than vice versa), those freedoms and those rights are at the mercy of those for who you work and those who you obey. Which in turn means they can all be lost at the whim of another.
Freedoms and rights come first. For all people.