yes absolutely. some will think that. A large secure wall that is nearly impposbile to climb is much better then a chain link fence and it some areas, nothing at all.
its not just a wall either, more border patrol agents will back it up.
Illegal immigration is a very sesitive issue here because there are just so many of them. no americans really want them all to leave, we just want them to be here legally and not abuse our system. we shouldnt have to foot the bill for their healthcare and housing or whatever.
a large mostly secure fence (sure someone will find a way if they want), more border patrol, and a guest worker program is a excellent step in the right direction.
Next they will be building a wall along the american-canadian border.. No one coming in from below or above.... just need to do something about sea access........
No you don't. You believe some people should have one set of chances and another should have a different set of chances. That isn't fair..
please explain.
im not gonna break down every other sentence. IM curious about this becuase you feel you can tell me how I feel. we will just agree to disagree that there should be laws for entering this country.
times are different now then they were when my great grandma came here..
times are far different now when some guy sat down and wrote out the words that enabled fuckheads to keep enough guns in his closet to wipe out a small country... whats your point!?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Next they will be building a wall along the american-canadian border.. No one coming in from below or above.... just need to do something about sea access........
well the U.S.–Mexico border has the highest number of both legal and illegal crossings of any land border in the world.
times are far different now when some guy sat down and wrote out the words that enabled fuckheads to keep enough guns in his closet to wipe out a small country... whats your point!?
I agree. but my point is that the same rules dont apply now as they did then.
should that happen for guns? thats another thread. me personally, I hate guns.
im not gonna break down every other sentence. IM curious about this becuase you feel you can tell me how I feel.
I can't tell you how you feel. However, based on your statements I can tell you where you're contradicting yourself:
You say you want everyone to have a "fair chance" to come to this country. Unfortunately, the chance that got you here is not the same as the chance you propose that would bring another here. That is not fair.
To suggest that one group of people may be here on one set of standards while another group of people may come on a different set of standards is to demonstrate that you have no interest in fairness.
I can't tell you how you feel. However, based on your statements I can tell you where you're contradicting yourself:
You say you want everyone to have a "fair chance" to come to this country. Unfortunately, the chance that got you here is not the same as the chance you propose that would bring another here. That is not fair
To suggest that one group of people may be here on one set of standards while another group of people may come on a different set of standards is to demonstrate that you have no interest in fairness.
I was born here. call it luck but I'm more entilted to be an american citizen then someone who is not born here. why? I pay taxes, vote, follow the laws, or whatever. America is a soverign nation. its not some place that anything goes because we are "free"
if you werent born here, then you should have "fair chance" to become a citizen.
How is that which you hate relevant to that which another is allowed to do?
did I say I want to ban guns? no I didnt. personally, I hate them, and think we would be safer without them. last I checked, i'm allowed to have an opinion
I was born here. call it luck but I'm more entilted to be an american citizen then someone who is not born here. why? I pay taxes, vote, follow the laws, or whatever. America is a soverign nation. its not some place that anything goes because we are "free"
How does being born someplace "entitle" you to something? Based on your logic above, what would prevent a growing Mexican voting block from turning the tables and suggesting that those born outside the US have greater entitlements than people like you who were born within the US?
if you werent born here, then you should have "fair chance" to become a citizen.
Ok. Then would you oppose differnet immigration quotas for different nations? For example, would you oppose legislation that allowed one percentage of Europeans to immigrate and a different percentage of Mexicans to immigrate?
did I say I want to ban guns? no I didnt. personally, I hate them, and think we would be safer without them. last I checked, i'm allowed to have an opinion
Of course you're allowed to have an opinion. I have no ability or desire to prevent you from forming opinions. However, I am certainly allowed to ask the question you did not answer above:
How is that which you hate relevant to that which another might do?
Your statement was:
"should that happen for guns? me personally, I hate guns"
My question is how is the latter statement is relevant to the former question.
Of course, I'm against any restrictions at all to immigration other than documentation. I think all countries should welcome all people who want to live, be productive, become citizens, etc. with open arms.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm somehow afraid that "a good fair chance" means that one can become a US citizen only if one is "useful".
Now I can only talk 'aboot' personnal experience.
I moved out in a country close to my homeland, and still the administration is regularly checking on me. I've experienced, not only myself, but through other people as well, that even then we (foreigners) don't have the same right as nationalized citizens. Even between all sorts of foreigners, we are not equals.
I'm all for better patroling of the border. There IS a lot of illegal activity that happens there other than the fact that people are just crossing over. Not to mention how many deaths happen solely because people are trying to cross over. I doubt that a fence is going to solve the problem, but we definately need more people physically watching what's crossing. Of course there are people crossing solely to make a good life for themselves, but there are also a significant number crossing solely to avoid detection.
I think all countries should welcome all people who want to live, be productive, become citizens, etc. with open arms.
agreed. putting up a fence and border patrol allows people to come here who want to be productive and become citizens. they check their idea at the door, pay taxes, follow the rules. it keeps out anyone who does not want to be productive or follow the rules
how do you document someone who runs across the desert into america?
agreed. putting up a fence and border patrol allows people to come here who want to be productive and become citizens. they check their idea at the door, pay taxes, follow the rules. it keeps out anyone who does not want to be productive or follow the rules
If we let EVERYONE in who stopped and simply filled out a little paperwork, they wouldn't have to run across the desert.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I will also admit that I am tired of paying others doctor bills among other things when I can barely afford my own. I think that when illegal immigrants get treatment or other benifits, their legal country should get the bill.
I will also admit that I am tired of paying others doctor bills among other things when I can barely afford my own. I think that when illegal immigrants get treatment or other benifits, their legal country should get the bill.
This fence has nothing to do with that. You're already paying everyone's doctor bills. It's called insurance and taxes - two of the biggest scams going.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm not interested in all the legal stuff, I can read... I would just like to know what YOU deem is a fair chance.. in your words.. as a human being...
This fence has nothing to do with that. You're already paying everyone's doctor bills. It's called insurance and taxes - two of the biggest scams going.
why should I pay for an illiegal immigrant's doctor bill who doesnt pay taxes?
I'm not interested in all the legal stuff, I can read... I would just like to know what YOU deem is a fair chance.. in your words.. as a human being...
the fence will keep out those who dont to follow the rules and the door will let those in who do.
why should I pay for an illiegal immigrant's doctor bill who doesnt pay taxes?
You shouldn't! But don't blame that illegal immigrant for stupid legislation you passed before he or she likely even got here.
Forcing Americans to support illegal immigrants is as stupid as forcing illegal immigrants to jump through 15 hoops just to get the same opportunities you got by being one lucky sperm.
You shouldn't! But don't blame that illegal immigrant for stupid legislation you passed before he or she likely even got here.
Forcing Americans to support illegal immigrants is as stupid as forcing illegal immigrants to jump through 15 hoops just to get the same opportunities you got by being one lucky sperm.
I agree there needs to be different laws for illegals already here. there are just way too many here already. and most are law abiding good people. like I said, I support Bush's guest worker program.
we have to stop them from coming in illegally. thats what this is about. this isnt about what the laws are for those already here
The U.S. government depends on the taxpayers’ money to finance its programs like welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps as well as law enforcement. An estimated 13 percent of this funding is used to support illegal immigrants. Dozens of hospitals along the border went bankrupt because of free emergency room for illegal aliens. They cost the United States over $24 billion year in taxpayers’ money. Alone half a billion dollars per year are required to incarcerate illegal immigrants and the Center of Immigration Studies in Washington says, that immigrants are 75 percent more likely to use food stamps, medical benefits and housing assistance than natives, producing at a cost of $68 billion per year.23 According to a report of the National Academy of Sciences, the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. It is obvious that there is a large monetary burden for the taxpayer created by illegal immigration.
Furthermore, $60 billion are earned by illegal Mexican immigrants each year. Money sent home by illegal immigrants working in the U.S is one of Mexico’s largest revenue streams, after exports and oil sales. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, $10 billion are annually sent back to Mexico. Experts say, that this money helps to reduce the country’s debts and to bolster the peso. This figure equals to the amount of money Mexico earns with tourism each year. That is a massive transfer of wealth from America, especially from the poor working class to Mexico.
As it is the case in all Western countries, each individual must be able to pay a certain amount of taxes to cover his use of public services. Families with income below the poverty line pay very little taxes. In addition to these very low tax contributions, the poor are the main beneficiaries of welfare programs such as Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, Supplemental Security Income, Food Stamps and subsidized housing. So if immigration further increases the size of the poor population, it is likely that there will be a negative effects on the public system.
Education
It is also evident that immigrants and their children cause higher educational costs without being able to pay for the them. In Colorado for example, an annual cost of $50 million goes towards educating immigrant children from Mexico and $141 million towards educating illegal aliens. This amount would be enough to buy books, computers and more for every K-12 student in the state. In addition, some Spanish speaking communities along the border demand Spanish speaking schools, causing even higher costs for the state.
Almost two thirds of the adult Mexican immigrants have not finished high school and Mexicans accounts for about a third of all high school dropouts in the labor force, which is two and a half times that of natives.
Drug Trafficking
It also appears that illegal immigration is closely linked to the drug trafficking problem. Hundreds of illegal immigrants carrying drugs are weekly attempting to cross the border, supported with vehicles, fraudulent identification papers and information about thebest points of entry by Mexican drug lords. In some cases, both U.S. and Mexican Custom’s officials are corrupted to look the other way to ensure an easy crossing of the border.
80 percent of cocaine and 50 percent of heroin reaching America is smuggled across the border by Mexicans, most of them illegal immigrants. Drug cartels spend half a billion dollars per year bribing Mexico’s corrupt military and police officials, which also poses a serious threat to U.S. Border Patrol agents.
why should I pay for an illiegal immigrant's doctor bill who doesnt pay taxes?
You're already subsidizing medical bills for other people who do not pay taxes, so the only difference is whether they happened to get lucky like you and be born in the U.S.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Comments
Next they will be building a wall along the american-canadian border.. No one coming in from below or above.... just need to do something about sea access........
please explain.
im not gonna break down every other sentence. IM curious about this becuase you feel you can tell me how I feel. we will just agree to disagree that there should be laws for entering this country.
times are far different now when some guy sat down and wrote out the words that enabled fuckheads to keep enough guns in his closet to wipe out a small country... whats your point!?
well the U.S.–Mexico border has the highest number of both legal and illegal crossings of any land border in the world.
if people want to swin to america, good luck
I agree. but my point is that the same rules dont apply now as they did then.
should that happen for guns? thats another thread. me personally, I hate guns.
I can't tell you how you feel. However, based on your statements I can tell you where you're contradicting yourself:
You say you want everyone to have a "fair chance" to come to this country. Unfortunately, the chance that got you here is not the same as the chance you propose that would bring another here. That is not fair.
To suggest that one group of people may be here on one set of standards while another group of people may come on a different set of standards is to demonstrate that you have no interest in fairness.
How is that which you hate relevant to that which another is allowed to do?
I was born here. call it luck but I'm more entilted to be an american citizen then someone who is not born here. why? I pay taxes, vote, follow the laws, or whatever. America is a soverign nation. its not some place that anything goes because we are "free"
if you werent born here, then you should have "fair chance" to become a citizen.
did I say I want to ban guns? no I didnt. personally, I hate them, and think we would be safer without them. last I checked, i'm allowed to have an opinion
Define 'fair chance'...
How does being born someplace "entitle" you to something? Based on your logic above, what would prevent a growing Mexican voting block from turning the tables and suggesting that those born outside the US have greater entitlements than people like you who were born within the US?
Ok. Then would you oppose differnet immigration quotas for different nations? For example, would you oppose legislation that allowed one percentage of Europeans to immigrate and a different percentage of Mexicans to immigrate?
Of course you're allowed to have an opinion. I have no ability or desire to prevent you from forming opinions. However, I am certainly allowed to ask the question you did not answer above:
How is that which you hate relevant to that which another might do?
Your statement was:
"should that happen for guns? me personally, I hate guns"
My question is how is the latter statement is relevant to the former question.
Of course, I'm against any restrictions at all to immigration other than documentation. I think all countries should welcome all people who want to live, be productive, become citizens, etc. with open arms.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Now I can only talk 'aboot' personnal experience.
I moved out in a country close to my homeland, and still the administration is regularly checking on me. I've experienced, not only myself, but through other people as well, that even then we (foreigners) don't have the same right as nationalized citizens. Even between all sorts of foreigners, we are not equals.
So I don't get that immigrant stuff.
'If my fuckin' ex-wife told me to take care of her dog while her and her new boyfriend went to Honolulu, I'd tell her to go fuck herself." -The Dude
Whisky Drinker, Non-Hunter from Denver.
how do you document someone who runs across the desert into america?
agreed. putting up a fence and border patrol allows people to come here who want to be productive and become citizens. they check their idea at the door, pay taxes, follow the rules. it keeps out anyone who does not want to be productive or follow the rules
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/lawsregs/index.htm
If we let EVERYONE in who stopped and simply filled out a little paperwork, they wouldn't have to run across the desert.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
This fence has nothing to do with that. You're already paying everyone's doctor bills. It's called insurance and taxes - two of the biggest scams going.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm not interested in all the legal stuff, I can read... I would just like to know what YOU deem is a fair chance.. in your words.. as a human being...
why should I pay for an illiegal immigrant's doctor bill who doesnt pay taxes?
the fence will keep out those who dont to follow the rules and the door will let those in who do.
You shouldn't! But don't blame that illegal immigrant for stupid legislation you passed before he or she likely even got here.
Forcing Americans to support illegal immigrants is as stupid as forcing illegal immigrants to jump through 15 hoops just to get the same opportunities you got by being one lucky sperm.
I agree there needs to be different laws for illegals already here. there are just way too many here already. and most are law abiding good people. like I said, I support Bush's guest worker program.
we have to stop them from coming in illegally. thats what this is about. this isnt about what the laws are for those already here
Why? I still don't understand why I have to stop them from coming in illegally.
http://www.getmycountryback.com/
The U.S. government depends on the taxpayers’ money to finance its programs like welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps as well as law enforcement. An estimated 13 percent of this funding is used to support illegal immigrants. Dozens of hospitals along the border went bankrupt because of free emergency room for illegal aliens. They cost the United States over $24 billion year in taxpayers’ money. Alone half a billion dollars per year are required to incarcerate illegal immigrants and the Center of Immigration Studies in Washington says, that immigrants are 75 percent more likely to use food stamps, medical benefits and housing assistance than natives, producing at a cost of $68 billion per year.23 According to a report of the National Academy of Sciences, the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. It is obvious that there is a large monetary burden for the taxpayer created by illegal immigration.
Furthermore, $60 billion are earned by illegal Mexican immigrants each year. Money sent home by illegal immigrants working in the U.S is one of Mexico’s largest revenue streams, after exports and oil sales. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, $10 billion are annually sent back to Mexico. Experts say, that this money helps to reduce the country’s debts and to bolster the peso. This figure equals to the amount of money Mexico earns with tourism each year. That is a massive transfer of wealth from America, especially from the poor working class to Mexico.
As it is the case in all Western countries, each individual must be able to pay a certain amount of taxes to cover his use of public services. Families with income below the poverty line pay very little taxes. In addition to these very low tax contributions, the poor are the main beneficiaries of welfare programs such as Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, Supplemental Security Income, Food Stamps and subsidized housing. So if immigration further increases the size of the poor population, it is likely that there will be a negative effects on the public system.
Education
It is also evident that immigrants and their children cause higher educational costs without being able to pay for the them. In Colorado for example, an annual cost of $50 million goes towards educating immigrant children from Mexico and $141 million towards educating illegal aliens. This amount would be enough to buy books, computers and more for every K-12 student in the state. In addition, some Spanish speaking communities along the border demand Spanish speaking schools, causing even higher costs for the state.
Almost two thirds of the adult Mexican immigrants have not finished high school and Mexicans accounts for about a third of all high school dropouts in the labor force, which is two and a half times that of natives.
Drug Trafficking
It also appears that illegal immigration is closely linked to the drug trafficking problem. Hundreds of illegal immigrants carrying drugs are weekly attempting to cross the border, supported with vehicles, fraudulent identification papers and information about thebest points of entry by Mexican drug lords. In some cases, both U.S. and Mexican Custom’s officials are corrupted to look the other way to ensure an easy crossing of the border.
80 percent of cocaine and 50 percent of heroin reaching America is smuggled across the border by Mexicans, most of them illegal immigrants. Drug cartels spend half a billion dollars per year bribing Mexico’s corrupt military and police officials, which also poses a serious threat to U.S. Border Patrol agents.
You're already subsidizing medical bills for other people who do not pay taxes, so the only difference is whether they happened to get lucky like you and be born in the U.S.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.