Castro reportedly in 'grave' condition

jlew24asu

what I want to know from some here is WHY is american investment (the childish example always used is McDonalds) such a bad thing??

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

mammason, sorry to hear about your family's hardships under Castro. I wouldnt have been as calm responding to someone who called that guy a hero.

Castro is a disgusting human being

Many family's suffered under Castro's rule. My father had to leave Cuba in a hurry because someone told the local authorities that he was anti-Castro. Had he not managed to escape I probably wouldn't be writing this post right now. A lot of people get caught up in the idea of revolution, but in reality people like Che and Castro are animals. If our friend here really wants to hero worship someone he should take sometime to learn about Camilo Cienfuegos.

angelica

MakingWaves wrote:

you know what sucks? People with this attitude that Cuba and other countries that people die to escape are better than the US.

I think some people in this thread are making the general point that Cuba is Cuba, and should not have America rule imposed on it. They are entitled to do what they find in their own best interest and to progress at their own pace, as they see fit objectively, culturally, and as individuals. The reason America's downside comes into play is because everyone has got their problems and for one country to believe their way should be imposed, they had best have an airtight case, which is, of course, impossible. In other words, leave other countries be.

jlew24asu

angelica wrote:

I think most people in this thread are making the general point that Cuba is Cuba, and should not have America rule imposed on it.

america's rule? and what is that exactly?

angelica wrote:

They are entitled to do what they find in their own best interest and to progress at their own pace, as they see fit objectively, culturally, and as individuals.

this sounds all nice and makes me feel warm inside but you are failing to see reality. How can they (cuban people) find whats in their best interest when they go from one dictator to another? are you willing to say, "well its what they wanted", how dare they US insist they be free. and I'm in no way suggesting the US invade and install a democracy. I would like to see the embargo be dropped and the US gives incentives to create a free country.

angelica wrote:

The reason America's downside comes into play is because everyone has got their problems and for one country to believe their way should be imposed, they had best have an airtight case, which is, of course, impossible. In other words, leave other countries be.

leave the country be to fall under an oppressing dictator who will kill and jail anyone opposed to him? great idea.

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

america's rule? and what is that exactly?

That is another country going in and trying to impose their way on Cuba. You wouldn't like me coming into your home and imposing my way on you.

this sounds all nice and makes me feel warm inside but you are failing to see reality. How an they (cuban people) find whats in their best interest when they go from one dictator to another? are you willing to say, well its what they wanted, hwo dare they US insist they be free.

If you're looking for support for going in and imposing your way, you won't get it from me.

leave the country be to fall under an oppressing dictator who will kill and jail anyone opposed to him? great idea.

And I'm not particularly interested in emotional justifications intended to give credence to the idea of imposing one's ways on another, mostly because there is no justification for the unjustifiable.

jlew24asu

angelica wrote:

That is another country going in and trying to impose their way on Cuba. You wouldn't like me coming into your home and imposing my way on you.

If you're looking for support for going in and imposing your way, you won't get it from me.

And I'm not particularly interested in emotional justifications intended to give credence to the idea of imposing one's ways on another, mostly because there is no justification for the unjustifiable.

great job of not answering my question.

how many times are you going to say "impose their way on cuba"

I want to know what is America's way?? what would we be imposing on them?

dont respond if your not going to answer the question

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

great job of not answering my question.

how many times are you going to say "impose their way on cuba"

I want to know what is America's way?? what would we be imposing on them?

dont respond if your not going to answer the question

Thanks for your advice on when I should respond or not. Fortunately for me, I decide when I respond and what I say. I decide how I word my arguments.

Clearly, I am opposed to the US imposing their way on Cuba, including any mindset that Cuba is filled with victims who need the rescue of the US. The reason I am clearly against this is because this is the basis of the "rescue/victim/persecutor" triangle in psychology. It is a flawed position to come from, wherein one gives themselves permission to condescend to the level of the victim, to give "help". Really it's an illusion and it's about those who take it having an imbalanced and unhealthy perspective. When one acts on this false stance--of imagined unevenness, one is not operating on the even playing field, and one will create further imbalance.

MakingWaves

angelica wrote:

I think some people in this thread are making the general point that Cuba is Cuba, and should not have America rule imposed on it. They are entitled to do what they find in their own best interest and to progress at their own pace, as they see fit objectively, culturally, and as individuals. The reason America's downside comes into play is because everyone has got their problems and for one country to believe their way should be imposed, they had best have an airtight case, which is, of course, impossible. In other words, leave other countries be.

You are correct. I couldn't agree more with not imposing our ways and leaving other countries to be unless they are actually a threat to me. Maybe I am reading too much into them but it is just some of the posts that spew with just hating this country and that every other country is better just hits a nerve with me.

jlew24asu

angelica wrote:

Thanks for your advice on when I should respond or not. Fortunately for me, I decide when I respond and what I say. I decide how I word my arguments.

Clearly, I am opposed to the US imposing their way on Cuba, including any mindset that Cuba is filled with victims who need the rescue of the US. The reason I am clearly against this is because this is the basis of the "rescue/victim/persecutor" triangle in psychology. It is a flawed position to come from, wherein one gives themselves permission to condescend to the level of the victim, to give "help". Really it's an illusion and it's about those who take it having an imbalanced and unhealthy perspective. When one acts on this false stance--of imagined unevenness, one is not operating on the even playing field, and one will create further imbalance.

again. what is America's way that you do not want imposed? save me the psycho babble bullshit

angelica

MakingWaves wrote:

You are correct. I couldn't agree more with not imposing our ways and leaving other countries to be unless they are actually a threat to me. Maybe I am reading too much into them but it is just some of the posts that spew with just hating this country and that every other country is better just hits a nerve with me.

I'm glad we see eye to eye on the most basic and key point. It's understandable that people get defensive when they hear harsh things said about their country.

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

what I want to know from some here is WHY is american investment (the childish example always used is McDonalds) such a bad thing??

I think it's viewed in a negative manner because at times, not all the time, American investment usually leads to corporations praying upon the inhabitants of that country. I'll go back to United Fruit in Cuba. During the Batista regime United Fruit produce came from large plantations/farmer in Cuba. These plantations/farms where usually owned and operated by people with connections to Batista. The produce was sold to United Fruit for less than market value so that smaller farmers couldn't possible compete. Batista was provided with finacial incentives to make sure that no one rocked the boat. It is senerios like this one that cause people to be very weary of US investiment.

jlew24asu

MakingWaves wrote:

You are correct. I couldn't agree more with not imposing our ways and leaving other countries to be unless they are actually a threat to me. Maybe I am reading too much into them but it is just some of the posts that spew with just hating this country and that every other country is better just hits a nerve with me.

ok, since all of you just dont seem to get it, I will answer it.

the only thing America wants for Cuba is a freely elected government. and freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of whatever.....

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

again. what is America's way that you do not want imposed? save me the psycho babble bullshit

You do fine answering your own questions. If you are not interested in what I have to say, and in hearing my point, that should make things easy on you then.

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

ok, since all of you just dont seem to get it, I will answer it.

the only thing America wants for Cuba is a freely elected government. and freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of whatever.....

Oh, I think we get it. It's more than clear when you want to impose your idea of what is good for them, onto another people.

jlew24asu

angelica wrote:

I'm glad we see eye to eye on the most basic and key point. It's understandable that people get defensive when they hear harsh things said about their country.

maybe you are ok with a dictator controlling people just because "its what they want"

I tend to side with having people be free but thats just me

jlew24asu

angelica wrote:

Oh, I think we get it. It's more than clear when you want to impose your idea of what is good for them, onto another people.

call me crazy but "my idea" is freedom and I think its a good thing. even if it needs to be forced on them, and I dont mean with a gun.

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

maybe you are ok with a dictator controlling people just because "its what they want"

I tend to side with having people be free but thats just me

Except in your terms of "freedom" you nonchalantly overlook that a spoonfed "freedom" dictated by you, is actually the illusion of freedom. So I will just disagree with you on this one.

MakingWaves

jlew24asu wrote:

ok, since all of you just dont seem to get it, I will answer it.

the only thing America wants for Cuba is a freely elected government. and freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of whatever.....

I know that is what America wants and if Cuba decides they want it and want to talk to the American government about ways we can help them then I am all for it. The main point is Cuba has to want it first.

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

ok, since all of you just dont seem to get it, I will answer it.

the only thing America wants for Cuba is a freely elected government. and freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of whatever.....

I understand what you are saying, but look at history. The US has supported almost every single Cuban leader since Cuban independance from Spain and almost every single one of those leaders, that the US suppported, was a corrupt dictator. Up untill Castro the US government has done as it please with Cuba regardless of the effects on it's population. I'm not saying that is what will happen this time around, but the historical facts are hard to ignore.

MakingWaves

jlew24asu wrote:

call me crazy but "my idea" is freedom and I think its a good thing. even if it needs to be forced on them, and I dont mean with a gun.

If the Cuban Government doesn't want freedom then forcing with a gun would be the only way to do it. You can't have it both ways.