Castro reportedly in 'grave' condition

ThumbingMyWay32

mammasan wrote:

No. The Eisenhower administration actually supported Castro's over throw of Batista. When Castro took control of Cuba he had no animosity toward the US. He simply did not want US corporations like United Fruit reaping all the rewards of the hard work of Cuban workers. It wasn't untill Cuban exiles in the US, who made money off of Batista's corruption and expoitation of his own people, starting lobbying in Washington with the help of companies like United Fruit that our government did an about face on it's feelings toward Castro. The relationship between Cuba and the US went sour and the US started engaging in covert hostile actions against the Cuban government. It was at this point that Castro turned to the other superpower to help him. I'm not a huge fan of Castro, my entire family suffered under his rule and several people in my family died because of him, but we instigated hostilities toward him not the other way around.

I know. It's always our fault. That's just something we have to live with.

mammasan

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

I know. It's always our fault. That's just something we have to live with.

It's not always our fault but we should take responsibility for the errors we have committed. In our handling of Fidel we made a mistake. We allowed corporations and lobbiest to set our foreign policy. Had we not followed the path we did we could have averted the bay of Pigs invasion, the Cuban Missle Crisis, and the suffering of a lot of Cuban people.

norm

"It's not a good story. Too bad they didn't send him to Miami for surgery," said Dr. Charles Gerson

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070117/ts_nm/cuba_castro_doctors_dc_1

ThumbingMyWay32

cutback wrote:

"It's not a good story. Too bad they didn't send him to Miami for surgery," said Dr. Charles Gerson

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070117/ts_nm/cuba_castro_doctors_dc_1

That must've been the first botched surgery world-wide. I've never heard of such things!

Miami? We all know how horrible the medical care in this country is.

Rhinocerous Surprise

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

I know. It's always our fault. That's just something we have to live with.

He never really said it was always America's fault. He gave a list of facts on how in this particular case, it WAS America's fault. And your only defense is that "America always gets blamed"?

I know things are bad in Cuba, and yes, democracy is the ultimate goal. But America didn't need any other country to tell them to become a republic - why should Cuba?

ThumbingMyWay32

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

He never really said it was always America's fault. He gave a list of facts on how in this particular, it WAS America's fault. And your only defense is that "America always gets blamed"?

I know things are bad in Cuba, and yes, democracy is the ultimate goal. But America didn't need any other country to tell them to become a republic - why should Cuba?

Ok. You're right.

Rhinocerous Surprise

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

Ok. You're right.

Damn straight.:D

jlew24asu

mammasan wrote:

I will tell you what will happen once Castro dies. NOTHING. His brother Raul will take over leadership of the government. No change what so ever. There will be no free elections. Raul is not the tyrant Fidel is so an opportunity for small change does exist, but it cannot be forced upon the country. What really needs to happen is first the US need to lift the embargo. The US needs to open up diplomatic relations with Cuba and hope that through these channels the Cuban government will start to incorporate democracy. Rice's comment is a bit unsettling and not because I don't think that Cuban deserve a democratic government but because it seems that the US wants to impose it's will on Cuba. Cuba has had outside government impose their will on it for far to long. Offer some incentives to the Cuban government to change and then let it make the decisions.

there you are, I was hoping you would come around.

I agree with you. cubans should go at their own pace and do what they want with their own country without the US forcing anything. which by insisting they go with democracy, forces nothing, IMO.

let me ask you this....who should extent the olive branch? US or Raul?

as for the cold war being over, your right. but the same regime is still there. both relevant facts.

I hope things change for the better, soon

musicismylife78

sad news indeed. Castro is an example of someone who spent the last 40 years standing up to the worlds only remaining superpower. He stuck by his guns and led a life of activism and peace and equality. He will remain a hero for years to come. The hatred this country has for him, I never understood. Big Whoop if he wanted in the late 50's to nationalize Cuba. Big whoop. How the hell does that affect the u.s. And if he wanted to run a socialist state, then why the hell do we care?

He stands and will remain a hero who stood for the oppressed and poor. Someone who cared for the little man. Someone who felt revolution was paramount in society.

The fact remains for all the criticism he gets in the u.s. he provided and still provides free health care to all cubans and free education to all cubans. Anyone who has been to cuba can tell you their aint homeless cubans laying around the main squares and main streets. It aint like it is here in the u.s. Indeed classes still exist in cuba but it is nowhere near as stratified as it is here in the u.s.

The fact remains a bane of the u.s. existence did what the u.s. could not, set up free health care and free schooling, and reduce poverty drastically.

He deserves praise, and its a sad day indeed when a person like Castro dies.

Instead of crappy people like Obama, Kerry, Gore, Biden, Hillary etc... who merely want reform, why limit ourselves to reform? WHy not demand the revolution? Why not radically transform society? Hate to break it to you all, but Dems arent the goddamn answer, they only will reform. We need the revolution, and it needs to occur NOW!

Viva fidel, Viva Che, Viva the Revolucion, and Viva the spirit of activism, dissent, resistance and rage

In the name of Fidel, SET IT OFF, RISE!

ThumbingMyWay32

Cheguevara6 wrote:

sad news indeed. Castro is an example of someone who spent the last 40 years standing up to the worlds only remaining superpower. He stuck by his guns and led a life of activism and peace and equality. He will remain a hero for years to come. The hatred this country has for him, I never understood. Big Whoop if he wanted in the late 50's to nationalize Cuba. Big whoop. How the hell does that affect the u.s. And if he wanted to run a socialist state, then why the hell do we care?

He stands and will remain a hero who stood for the oppressed and poor. Someone who cared for the little man. Someone who felt revolution was paramount in society.

The fact remains for all the criticism he gets in the u.s. he provided and still provides free health care to all cubans and free education to all cubans. Anyone who has been to cuba can tell you their aint homeless cubans laying around the main squares and main streets. It aint like it is here in the u.s. Indeed classes still exist in cuba but it is nowhere near as stratified as it is here in the u.s.

The fact remains a bane of the u.s. existence did what the u.s. could not, set up free health care and free schooling, and reduce poverty drastically.

He deserves praise, and its a sad day indeed when a person like Castro dies.

Instead of crappy people like Obama, Kerry, Gore, Biden, Hillary etc... who merely want reform, why limit ourselves to reform? WHy not demand the revolution? Why not radically transform society? Hate to break it to you all, but Dems arent the goddamn answer, they only will reform. We need the revolution, and it needs to occur NOW!

Viva fidel, Viva Che, Viva the Revolucion, and Viva the spirit of activism, dissent, resistance and rage

In the name of Fidel, SET IT OFF, RISE!

Wow. Your screenname is in tribute to Ernesto Guevara I take it? The same man who shot deserters of the revolutionary army himself? Who more often would torture them first?

There ain't no classes in Cuba cause there ain't nobody got no money Ernesto. Everyone suffers equally.

Hope you aren't serious about your little rant. If someone from the government wishes to take you seriously, you've just committed treason. Of course, I would have already been dead if I would have felt the same way about your beloved Ernesto.

You're a whacko. Learn it, love it.

Heineken Helen

beemster wrote:

And I'm sure those facts are from reliable sources?

Well apart from them being common knowledge, I'll do the google search for ya :rolleyes:

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0107443.html

some other useful stuff:

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/cuba_statistics.html

Heineken Helen

MrBrian wrote:

But I won't argue about how gore would've been better than Bush, but I think america needed Bush, many many more americans now understand more about politics because of that idiot bush, they see how bad the country is now and they educate themselves on the reasons. perhaps for a better future.

wow, that's a very very interesting way of looking at things and, I hate to say it, but you may have a point. Ah shite, don't tell me Bush will go down in history as the man who educated Americans and opened their minds

Heineken Helen

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

I'm not above having talks with Raul assuming he takes power after Fidel's death. But to suggest we should open up to a country who once agreed to house nuclear weapons aimed at American cities is silly. The leadership has not changed since those times. Their political bearings are still the same. Hell, we let the guy come to Yankee stadium... Shouldn't the ball be on someone elses side of the court for once?

Hey, the leadership of Northern Ireland hasn't changed in about 2000 years it seems :rolleyes: BUT you're talking about things in the past... stop being so bitter and move on, will ya?

catefrances

Heineken Helen wrote:

wow, that's a very very interesting way of looking at things and, I hate to say it, but you may have a point. Ah shite, don't tell me Bush will go down in history as the man who educated Americans and opened their minds

pretty scary huh?

let's not forget that muhammed was apparently illiterate and he's educated millions.

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

there you are, I was hoping you would come around.

I agree with you. cubans should go at their own pace and do what they want with their own country without the US forcing anything. which by insisting they go with democracy, forces nothing, IMO.

let me ask you this....who should extent the olive branch? US or Raul?

as for the cold war being over, your right. but the same regime is still there. both relevant facts.

I hope things change for the better, soon

First let me say that I am in no way defending Castro. My family, as well as thousands of others, suffered under his rule. There are 4 members of my family that where executed by hisa government for voicing their opinion. My grandmother & grtandfather where forced to work in a labor camp for 6 months simply because my grandfather refused to spy on their neighbors. My grandmother told me the stories of the conditions of these camps. If Castro stood before me on fire I wouldn't piss on him to put the fire out.

Back to your question. In my opinion it should be the US that extends the olive branch and I have two reasons why. The embargo sanctioned on Cuba is an action supported and taken by the US. The embargo should have been lifted years ago. China is a communist country yet we trade with them. Vietnam is a communist country and we trade with them. It just seems that the US is holding this embargo in place, not because of national security reasons, but because of a strong Cuban-American lobby. Cuban exiles in this country hold a very deep seeded grudge against Fidel and their hopes was that this embargo would finally force him out of power and that an Cuban government waiting in exile in Miami would come in. That is never going to happen and Cuban-Americans as well as the US government have to finally face realityand see that the embargo is not working and it is only hurting the Cuban population. The Cuban government is not going to change and I think the US has to be the bigger person here, if they are sincere about bring democracy to Cuba, and make the first move. Second reason is that it was the US government that initiated hostilities towards Cuba. Castro had no problem with the US. His problem was with our support of the Batista regime. Batista was a fucking bastard and he was no better than Fidel. Fidel's original goal was to give the country back to the people. Batista sold his country and his people just to line his pockets. Had the US not caved into pressure from Cuban-exiles and corporations like United Fruit hostilities would have never existed between the two nations. Castro only turned to the Soviets after the US started hostile actions against him and at the urging of Che Guevara. On a side note it is believed that Castro had Camilo Cienfuegos, he was one of the four leaders of the Cuban Revolution along with Castro, Raul, and Che, killed at the urgings of Che because Camilo did not trust the Soviets and was attempting to talk Castro out of signing a treaty with them.

I would love to see a free and democratic Cuba without any undue outside influence. Cuba has never had that in it's history. Even after the Spanish-American War the US retained the right to intevene in Cuban affairs as it saw fit. Since it's colonization the inhabitants of Cuba, from the native Taíno indians to it's citizens today, have been a pawn for a great power. Cubans have never had total control of their own country and it's destiny and I for one hope to see that day come. I still have plenty of family there and it bothers me that they suffer and it also bothers me that I can't go and visit my parents homeland. Cuba has great potential. From tourism to natural resources, a large oil reserve was resently discovered in the North Cuba Basin, and it should be the Cuban people who benefit from the finances gained from these resources not a foireign country or a dictator and hopefully in the near future they will.

mammasan

Cheguevara6 wrote:

sad news indeed. Castro is an example of someone who spent the last 40 years standing up to the worlds only remaining superpower. He stuck by his guns and led a life of activism and peace and equality. He will remain a hero for years to come. The hatred this country has for him, I never understood. Big Whoop if he wanted in the late 50's to nationalize Cuba. Big whoop. How the hell does that affect the u.s. And if he wanted to run a socialist state, then why the hell do we care?

He stands and will remain a hero who stood for the oppressed and poor. Someone who cared for the little man. Someone who felt revolution was paramount in society.

The fact remains for all the criticism he gets in the u.s. he provided and still provides free health care to all cubans and free education to all cubans. Anyone who has been to cuba can tell you their aint homeless cubans laying around the main squares and main streets. It aint like it is here in the u.s. Indeed classes still exist in cuba but it is nowhere near as stratified as it is here in the u.s.

The fact remains a bane of the u.s. existence did what the u.s. could not, set up free health care and free schooling, and reduce poverty drastically.

He deserves praise, and its a sad day indeed when a person like Castro dies.

Instead of crappy people like Obama, Kerry, Gore, Biden, Hillary etc... who merely want reform, why limit ourselves to reform? WHy not demand the revolution? Why not radically transform society? Hate to break it to you all, but Dems arent the goddamn answer, they only will reform. We need the revolution, and it needs to occur NOW!

Viva fidel, Viva Che, Viva the Revolucion, and Viva the spirit of activism, dissent, resistance and rage

In the name of Fidel, SET IT OFF, RISE!

Yes he provides free heathcare and education to his people. Yes he freed them from the clutches of a corrupt dictator but at what cost. How many innocent Cubans where jailed, tortured, and/or killed just so he could keep himself in power. You are right that you don't see homeless people in Cuba, not because they all have jobs and a home but because they are incarcerated and sent off to work camps. AIDs patients, homosexuals, and the mentally ill have all suffered as well under Castro rule. They where locked away and left to rot because in Castro's eyes they defiled Cuba's image. Are these the actions of a hero. If she where alive, you could ask my grandmother how she spent the 6 months at a woman's work camp. How the guards sexually abused the woman there. How my grandfather was beaten infront of my mother and grandmother and hauled off simply because he refused to spy on a neighbor. Castro is no hero. He may have had good intentions when he liberated Cuba from Batista but as the saying goes "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

MakingWaves

redrock wrote:

American law doesn't allow me to run for president. Though american, I was born in France, in an american hospital, on an american base (my dad was in the army) but still.. in France... So that excludes me from the presidency!

It is sad how people come on here and bitch but don't really know what they are talking about.
If both your parents are American citizens and at least one of them has lived in the USA then you can run for President.
Also, if you are born on a US base and at least one of your parents is a citizen and has lived in the US for at least a year then you can run for President.
Pay attention in school or do some fucking research before you come on here complaining about how much this country sucks. you know what sucks? People with this attitude that Cuba and other countries that people die to escape are better than the US.

jlew24asu

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

Wow. Your screenname is in tribute to Ernesto Guevara I take it? The same man who shot deserters of the revolutionary army himself? Who more often would torture them first?

There ain't no classes in Cuba cause there ain't nobody got no money Ernesto. Everyone suffers equally.

Hope you aren't serious about your little rant. If someone from the government wishes to take you seriously, you've just committed treason. Of course, I would have already been dead if I would have felt the same way about your beloved Ernesto.

You're a whacko. Learn it, love it.

I know what ya mean. I couldnt even bring myself to respond. its just amazing

jlew24asu

mammasan wrote:

Yes he provides free heathcare and education to his people. Yes he freed them from the clutches of a corrupt dictator but at what cost. How mant innocent Cubans where jailed, tortured, and/or just so he could keep himself in power. You are right that you don't see homeless people in Cuba, not because they all have jobs and a home but because they are incarcerated and sent off to work camps. AIDs patients, homosexuals, and the mentally ill have all suffered as well under Castro rule. They where locked away and left to rot because in Castro's eyes they defiled Cuba's image. Are these the actions of a hero. If she where alive, you could ask my grandmother how she spent the 6 months at a woman's work camp. How the guards sexually abused the woman there. How my grandfather was beaten infront of my mother and grandmother and hauled off simply because he refused to spy on a neighbor. Castro is no hero. He may have had good intentions when he liberated Cuba from Batista but as the saying goes "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

mammason, sorry to hear about your family's hardships under Castro. I wouldnt have been as calm responding to someone who called that guy a hero.

Castro is a disgusting human being

jlew24asu

mammasan wrote:

First let me say that I am in no way defending Castro. My family, as well as thousands of others, suffered under his rule. There are 4 members of my family that where executed by hisa government for voicing their opinion. My grandmother & grtandfather where forced to work in a labor camp for 6 months simply because my grandfather refused to spy on their neighbors. My grandmother told me the stories of the conditions of these camps. If Castro stood before me on fire I wouldn't piss on him to put the fire out.

completely understand your not defending him and I'm sorry for what your family had to go through.

mammasan wrote:

Back to your question. In my opinion it should be the US that extends the olive branch and I have two reasons why. The embargo sanctioned on Cuba is an action supported and taken by the US. The embargo should have been lifted years ago. China is a communist country yet we trade with them. Vietnam is a communist country and we trade with them. It just seems that the US is holding this embargo in place, not because of national security reasons, but because of a strong Cuban-American lobby. Cuban exiles in this country hold a very deep seeded grudge against Fidel and their hopes was that this embargo would finally force him out of power and that an Cuban government waiting in exile in Miami would come in. That is never going to happen and Cuban-Americans as well as the US government have to finally face realityand see that the embargo is not working and it is only hurting the Cuban population. The Cuban government is not going to change and I think the US has to be the bigger person here, if they are sincere about bring democracy to Cuba, and make the first move. Second reason is that it was the US government that initiated hostilities towards Cuba. Castro had no problem with the US. His problem was with our support of the Batista regime. Batista was a fucking bastard and he was no better than Fidel. Fidel's original goal was to give the country back to the people. Batista sold his country and his people just to line his pockets. Had the US not caved into pressure from Cuban-exiles and corporations like United Fruit hostilities would have never existed between the two nations. Castro only turned to the Soviets after the US started hostile actions against him and at the urging of Che Guevara. On a side note it is believed that Castro had Camilo Cienfuegos, he was one of the four leaders of the Cuban Revolution along with Castro, Raul, and Che, killed at the urgings of Che because Camilo did not trust the Soviets and was attempting to talk Castro out of signing a treaty with them.

Ok I can live with that.

mammasan wrote:

I would love to see a free and democratic Cuba without any undue outside influence. Cuba has never had that in it's history. Even after the Spanish-American War the US retained the right to intevene in Cuban affairs as it saw fit. Since it's colonization the inhabitants of Cuba, from the native Taíno indians to it's citizens today, have been a pawn for a great power. Cubans have never had total control of their own country and it's destiny and I for one hope to see that day come. I still have plenty of family there and it bothers me that they suffer and it also bothers me that I can't go and visit my parents homeland. Cuba has great potential. From tourism to natural resources, a large oil reserve was resently discovered in the North Cuba Basin, and it should be the Cuban people who benefit from the finances gained from these resources not a foireign country or a dictator and hopefully in the near future they will.

I hope so too.