Castro reportedly in 'grave' condition

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

cubans can read. but they dont go to college. thats good not great. its always bad when the government tell you what you can and cant do. you would agree right??

why would they? they can send em here to become doctors with state money, then bring them home to help provide the free healthcare that allows them to ensure all babies are born healthy. such a horrid state of affairs.

but you're right... they cant afford a night at the ritz carlton or the newest line of abercrombie jeans (materials: $5, having their corporate logo on your ass: the remaining $75). those dirty fucking peasants. we should sink their poor, ignorant island.

soulsinging

angelica wrote:

I think we've already established that its OKAY to judge others based on one's own standards, as long as we don't force our ways on them because once we do so then we are contradicting our own idea of freedom. Do you agree with this or not, NCfan? Do you recognize the actual hypocrisy of imposing ways on others, through war or otherwise?

yeah, having someone tell cubans what they can and cannot do is bad... unless it's the US telling them. then whatever we tell them to do is "freedom."

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

why would they? they can send em here to become doctors with state money, then bring them home to help provide the free healthcare that allows them to ensure all babies are born healthy. such a horrid state of affairs.

but you're right... they cant afford a night at the ritz carlton or the newest line of abercrombie jeans (materials: $5, having their corporate logo on your ass: the remaining $75). those dirty fucking peasants. we should sink their poor, ignorant island.

so I guess what I'm learning from you people is that having a dictator is good and the big american capitalistic machine is bad. I got it

soulsinging

TheVoiceInside wrote:

you guys want to know what Cuba will look like after Castro is dead and it is opened up just come to Puerto Rico and you will see. This once buetifull island paradise now is overpopulated, filled with shopping malls, fast food restaurants on every corner, a paternal goverment which doest really have any power, curroption, a vast drug problem, one of the highest crime rates in the US, a depeleted educational system, a crumblim healthcare system and so on and so on... but you turist never see that because all you care about is that there is a Ritz carlton and a nice beach. and dont give a fuck about the place, its people and its culture.

Im not saying that I preferr communism and a dictator but your vision of American freedom is only a reality to most americans in the US. Its not that bad but the exported version of American democracy is junk and it only serves the american goverment and no one else.

It is very condecending to think that only Americans are capable of creating a decent democracy. That is your main problem, you think that people in places like south america, the middle east and other places are incapable of doing such effective things and if they havent done them before its because there was always an alien influence keeping people down.

hmmm... jlew? ncfan? nothing?

funny, im guessing these two have never even been to a latin american country, or if they have they never, as you pointed out, left their american resort.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

yeah, having someone tell cubans what they can and cannot do is bad... unless it's the US telling them. then whatever we tell them to do is "freedom."

we are "telling" them to freely elect a leader. we cant and wont force them to do so. I'm not seeing how insisting, not forcing, them to hold democratic free elections is a bad thing.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

so I guess what I'm learning from you people is that having a dictator is good and the big american capitalistic machine is bad. I got it

having a dictator is bad and the big american capitalistic machine is bad. i will be happy when castro is gone. i hope the cubans finally get a chance for self-determination. SELF-determination. NOT determination by the US or the CIA (have we forgotten so quickly how they like to meddle in latin america?) or the dollar.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

we are "telling" them to freely elect a leader. we cant and wont force them to do so. I'm not seeing how insisting, not forcing, them to hold democratic free elections is a bad thing.

becos american history has shown that when we say insist, we mean we're going to use force to get it. they're used interchangeably, so it's not irrational to hear rice say that and worry about their motives or intentions in saying it.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

i hope the cubans finally get a chance for self-determination. SELF-determination.

I hope so too. and if another dictator takes over, did cubans really get to choose?

does anyone know what Raul Castro is all about?

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

I hope so too. and if another dictator takes over, did cubans really get to choose?

does anyone know what Raul Castro is all about?

if american troops move in and set up a government like they did in iraq, or the cia sticks their hand in to overthrow anyone they don't like as they have done frequently in latin america in the last 60 years, did the cubans really get to choose?

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

if american troops move in and set up a government like they did in iraq, or the cia sticks their hand in to overthrow anyone they don't like as they have done frequently in latin america in the last 60 years, did the cubans really get to choose?

you have to be kidding. you really think we would invade cuba? its not going to happen. so if anyone wants to have a rational debate about this lets talk. soul you are wasting my time

sapperskunk

soulsinging wrote:

hmmm... jlew? ncfan? nothing?

funny, im guessing these two have never even been to a latin american country, or if they have they never, as you pointed out, left their american resort.

Oh C'mon Soulsinging, it sure would be nice and all, but I think we all can't be as well traveled as yourself.

And as far as the paying for school thing goes, mentioned by somebody. you're right, not everyone can afford to pay for college. That's why people bust their ass working while they go to school, earn scholarships, take out student loans, or join the military for the GI bill.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

you have to be kidding. you really think we would invade cuba? its not going to happen. so if anyone wants to have a rational debate about this lets talk. soul you are wasting my time

im not saying it's going to, im saying it's not irrational to suspect that our government might be willing to meddle in cuban affairs to get what we "insist" cubans must have. and im saying keep our eyes open and if we see our government acting like a cuban dictator, express our outrage at such behavior. we have spent decades meddling in latin american affairs in a military way. perhaps this time we wont. i hope not. but when you have a history of such behavior up to the mess we've involved ourself in in iraq, i dont blame anyone who is skeptical or suspicious of our designs for post-castro cuba.

let me ask you... do you seriously deny that the US never tried to invade cuba (bay of pigs) or get involved in nicaragua or panama? these things never happened? if you deny that, then YOU are the one engaging in irrational debate. if you happen to think things are different now and such things will not happen again, that's cool and id be happy to listen your reasons for believing the time for such activities by america has passed.

soulsinging

sapperskunk wrote:

Oh C'mon Soulsinging, it sure would be nice and all, but I think we all can't be as well traveled as yourself.

And as far as the paying for school thing goes, mentioned by somebody. you're right, not everyone can afford to pay for college. That's why people bust their ass working while they go to school, earn scholarships, take out student loans, or join the military for the GI bill.

ive never been there either. the only times ive been to latin america was when we took a family cruise vacation, so i saw no more of the country than he talks about. but i dont claim to know how they feel about their country either.

Heineken Helen

sapperskunk wrote:

Oh C'mon Soulsinging, it sure would be nice and all, but I think we all can't be as well traveled as yourself.

And as far as the paying for school thing goes, mentioned by somebody. you're right, not everyone can afford to pay for college. That's why people bust their ass working while they go to school, earn scholarships, take out student loans, or join the military for the GI bill.

Yep... it sure sounds lovely over there

Collin

jlew24asu wrote:

become like americans? you mean free? free to choose who they want as a leader? free to say and do whatever they want?

what a bitch

If you want to talk about democracy I think there are better examples than the US.
Sure you get the choose who your leader is, but you only have 2 maybe three choices. Woohoo democracy :rolleyes:

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

im not saying it's going to, im saying it's not irrational to suspect that our government might be willing to meddle in cuban affairs to get what we "insist" cubans must have. and im saying keep our eyes open and if we see our government acting like a cuban dictator, express our outrage at such behavior. we have spent decades meddling in latin american affairs in a military way. perhaps this time we wont. i hope not. but when you have a history of such behavior up to the mess we've involved ourself in in iraq, i dont blame anyone who is skeptical or suspicious of our designs for post-castro cuba.

cuba is not the middle east. different people, different region.

soulsinging wrote:

let me ask you... do you seriously deny that the US never tried to invade cuba (bay of pigs) or get involved in nicaragua or panama? these things never happened? if you deny that, then YOU are the one engaging in irrational debate. if you happen to think things are different now and such things will not happen again, that's cool and id be happy to listen your reasons for believing the time for such activities by america has passed.

I see your point. but during the cold war cuba was a threat. cold war is over. I think both sides, america and cuba, would like to see normal relations and be happy neighbors. america would not invade just to ensure they have a free democracy.

jlew24asu

Collin wrote:

If you want to talk about democracy I think there are better examples than the US.
Sure you get the choose who your leader is, but you only have 2 maybe three choices. Woohoo democracy :rolleyes:

how many choices do you want? the point is that america and others DO get to choose.

jlew24asu

Heineken Helen wrote:

Yep... it sure sounds lovely over there

so what are you suggesting? having a dictator is better for the people? I didnt know you are a communist

sapperskunk

Heineken Helen wrote:

Yep... it sure sounds lovely over there

I don't get you.

You claim to be anti-capitalistic but yet you listen to a band that's the equivalent of a rock and roll Mcdonalds. Some people have even called PJ the Baby Huey of rock. Have you seen ticket prices for PJ shows lately? You have made those guys absolutely rich, pat yourself on the back. Talk about a monopoly, I wonder if being from Ireland might make you a fan of U2 also, I think they were the biggest money making act last year. Pat yourself on the back again, real hard this time.

Your absolutely right though, it's terrible here. I think the best thing that you could do would be to distance yourself from the US as much as possible and under no circumstance ever set foot on our soil. Thanks, I'd appreciate it.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

cuba is not the middle east. different people, different region.



I see your point. but during the cold war cuba was a threat. cold war is over. I think both sides, america and cuba, would like to see normal relations and be happy neighbors. america would not invade just to ensure they have a free democracy.

it is different people and a different region, but that does not dismiss a long history of latin american meddling. yes, the cold war was a key factor in that so i do doubt that we would outright invade them. washington doesn't have the political capital for any such action anyway. im more worried about something more subtle. i want normalized relations. i want cuba to no longer be in isolation and to have normal relations. but i dont want them to do it at the point of an american gun. let them set the terms of their new government.

also, communism is not synonymous with dictatorship. you're smarter than that, act like it.