I know that is what America wants and if Cuba decides they want it and want to talk to the American government about ways we can help them then I am all for it. The main point is Cuba has to want it first.
I agree. It's about the even playing field and balanced, healthy movement.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I think it's viewed in a negative manner because at times, not all the time, American investment usually leads to corporations praying upon the inhabitants of that country.
sure capitalism isnt perfect but hopefully there are laws that prevent huge corps from abusing the system such stopping a monopoly.
I'll go back to United Fruit in Cuba. During the Batista regime United Fruit produce came from large plantations/farmer in Cuba. These plantations/farms where usually owned and operated by people with connections to Batista. The produce was sold to United Fruit for less than market value so that smaller farmers couldn't possible compete. Batista was provided with finacial incentives to make sure that no one rocked the boat. It is senerios like this one that cause people to be very weary of US investiment.
I see the point here, I do but....American Investment can bring jobs and wealth to cuba. if cuba is smart about it, they can set tough rules or tax the shit out of american corporations. even with high taxes american companies will still go there. and american money will help the cuban economy.
I think it's viewed in a negative manner because at times, not all the time, American investment usually leads to corporations praying upon the inhabitants of that country. I'll go back to United Fruit in Cuba. During the Batista regime United Fruit produce came from large plantations/farmer in Cuba. These plantations/farms where usually owned and operated by people with connections to Batista. The produce was sold to United Fruit for less than market value so that smaller farmers couldn't possible compete. Batista was provided with finacial incentives to make sure that no one rocked the boat. It is senerios like this one that cause people to be very weary of US investiment.
Exactly! How can a country politically disagree the US or even accuse them of doing something wrong when there are quite a few American companies in that country? America could easily threaten to pull out all their companies... it's like the US owning a country VIA their corporations. It stinks.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
sure capitalism isnt perfect but hopefully there are laws that prevent huge corps from abusing the system such stopping a monopoly.
I see the point here, I do but....American Investment can bring jobs and wealth to cuba. if cuba is smart about it, they can set tough rules or tax the shit out of american corporations. even with high taxes american companies will still go there. and american money will help the cuban economy.
jlew, I believe you mis-accredited these quotes to me when they are actually from mammasan.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
again. what is America's way that you do not want imposed? save me the psycho babble bullshit
It's clear you have missed the point. You stated that you'd like to see Cuba have freedom, even if it means 'forcing' it on them. Do you not see the problem with this statement? I am not 'free' if another is 'forcing' themselves on me, even in the name of freedom. Now, there is no problem in helping a nation achieve freedom, but the idea of 'force' should not enter the equation or you are no better than the dictators you oppose.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I thought you wanted what the cuban people wanted, not the government
Look I don't think many of us have a problem with the US literally helping countries who need and WANT help. If a country doesn't ask for your help... what do you care? There are countries all over Africa, Asia, wherever BEGGING for help... but they're constantly ignored. Can we help those who WANT it first? It might make the world a slightly better place. There are vicious dictators all over Africa and people wondering why we're just ignoring them. Why are we? These people WANT our help but we go 'imposing our help' on those who haven't asked... what's that about?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Exactly! How can a country politically disagree the US or even accuse them of doing something wrong when there are quite a few American companies in that country? America could easily threaten to pull out all their companies... it's like the US owning a country VIA their corporations. It stinks.
It's very simple for the US to enter the area of coersion by using subtle or crude psychological forces that are manipulative, and that perpetuate power imbalances. Unfortunately, people are justifying doing so, and attaching a fine moral high ground to that as well. The more of us who dismantle the illusion of that moral high ground, the better the chance of creating healthy progress in this situation. Ultimately all power imbalances set up imbalanced consequences to reverberate back in unhealthy ways.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Answer me this then:
Why does the u.s. care about Castro? Why is our recent history littered with comical attempts on Castro's life? What goddamn difference does it make if he overthrew Batista? Why does the u.s. care so much about him?
I stand by my statement. Castro stood up to the u.s. Thats an honorable thing. He stood his ground. He didnt take the u.s's crap. Just because the u.s. feels something is right (that castro shouldnt be in power) doesnt make that belief right.
Castro isnt perfect but what hero is? Even if your a Bush loving war supporting republican you have alot to atone for! In fact, why is supporting Castro condemned by insensitive people on this board, but being pro Iraq war which resulted in the deaths of 500000 plus Iraqi civilians and 3000 plus American soldiers, why is that looked at as honorable. I would support Castro any day, Bush is a liar and a killer. Castro isnt.
If supporting castro raising eyebrows, I dont really care to be honest. He has some great ideas, and he should be praised for them.
I just love the hipocrisy on this board. Supporting Bush, who basically is the devil incarnate is justifiable, but if someone says they support Castro they are treasonous! Doesnt work out in my mind!
Castro is a hero for saying "no" to the u.s. and doing things his own way. And again, lets be real, if he wants a socialist state why the hell shouldnt he have one?
Look I don't think many of us have a problem with the US literally helping countries who need and WANT help. If a country doesn't ask for your help
people under rule of a dictator arent allowed to ask for help. and with thousands of cubans risking their lives by floating on a makeshift raft to escape is a sign that they need help.
There are countries all over Africa, Asia, wherever BEGGING for help... but they're constantly ignored. Can we help those who WANT it first? It might make the world a slightly better place. There are vicious dictators all over Africa and people wondering why we're just ignoring them. Why are we? These people WANT our help but we go 'imposing our help' on those who haven't asked... what's that about?
there is plenty of help going to Africa. and there are 54 countries in africa and 85% (just a guess) are under dictatorships. should we go marching around changing the world? ok lets go.
if castro is called a dictator, what the hell is Bush? A dictator inposes ideas on a country and rules with an iron fist and doesnt listen to the populace. That doesnt sound like our monkey boy does it?
Answer me this then:
Why does the u.s. care about Castro? Why is our recent history littered with comical attempts on Castro's life? What goddamn difference does it make if he overthrew Batista? Why does the u.s. care so much about him?
I stand by my statement. Castro stood up to the u.s. Thats an honorable thing. He stood his ground. He didnt take the u.s's crap. Just because the u.s. feels something is right (that castro shouldnt be in power) doesnt make that belief right.
Castro isnt perfect but what hero is? Even if your a Bush loving war supporting republican you have alot to atone for! In fact, why is supporting Castro condemned by insensitive people on this board, but being pro Iraq war which resulted in the deaths of 500000 plus Iraqi civilians and 3000 plus American soldiers, why is that looked at as honorable. I would support Castro any day, Bush is a liar and a killer. Castro isnt.
If supporting castro raising eyebrows, I dont really care to be honest. He has some great ideas, and he should be praised for them.
I just love the hipocrisy on this board. Supporting Bush, who basically is the devil incarnate is justifiable, but if someone says they support Castro they are treasonous! Doesnt work out in my mind!
Castro is a hero for saying "no" to the u.s. and doing things his own way. And again, lets be real, if he wants a socialist state why the hell shouldnt he have one?
Look I don't think many of us have a problem with the US literally helping countries who need and WANT help. If a country doesn't ask for your help... what do you care? There are countries all over Africa, Asia, wherever BEGGING for help... but they're constantly ignored. Can we help those who WANT it first? It might make the world a slightly better place. There are vicious dictators all over Africa and people wondering why we're just ignoring them. Why are we? These people WANT our help but we go 'imposing our help' on those who haven't asked... what's that about?
You hit the nail on the head in how to avoid the imbalanced cycles: If someone asks for help, then help. If they don't ask, your help is unwanted and ethically your hands are tied.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
if castro is called a dictator, what the hell is Bush? A dictator inposes ideas on a country and rules with an iron fist and doesnt listen to the populace. That doesnt sound like our monkey boy does it?
bush was voted in by the people, go bother someone else.
You hit the nail on the head in how to avoid the imbalanced cycles: If someone asks for help, then help. If they don't ask, your help is unwanted and ethically your hands are tied.
wake up. someone(cuban people) CANNOT ask for help under a dictator.
answer the question I keep asking, why does the u.s. care about castro? It doesnt care at all about helping people, the u.s. could care less about all that. Why is it so interested in what castro does?
And again, what is our own president and our own system if cuba is considered a dictatorship?
I know, I'm fucking crazy to think the cuban people want to be free
You don't want the cuban people to be free, you want to impose your will on them. See my other response to you. An individual can NOT be free if you are 'forcing' anything on them and giving them no choice. Again, this makes you no different than the dictators you oppose.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
answer the question I keep asking, why does the u.s. care about castro? It doesnt care at all about helping people, the u.s. could care less about all that. Why is it so interested in what castro does?
An individual can NOT be free if you are 'forcing' anything on them and giving them no choice. Again, this makes you no different than the dictators you oppose.
if given the choice, would any human, choose freedom or choose a dictator?
people under rule of a dictator arent allowed to ask for help. and with thousands of cubans risking their lives by floating on a makeshift raft to escape is a sign that they need help.
Thousands of Africans float over to Europe and die in the process also...
Somehow I don't believe this... considering you work for an oil company and see yourself being president some day... it just doesn't sound so sincere... also I think most Americans since 9/11 have overused the word 'freedom'. The 'freedom' you refer to exists very rarely in industrialised and corporate nations.
there is plenty of help going to Africa. and there are 54 countries in africa and 85% (just a guess) are under dictatorships. should we go marching around changing the world? ok lets go.
If a country asks for our help yes we should. People CAN ask even WITH dictators. We know what's going on in most of these countries and choose to ignore it... what is so special about Cuba?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
do you think you can criticize castro the same way you criticize bush if you lived in cuba?
NEXT
Actually since 9/11 it's probably pretty similar.
At least Castro does things to help his own people
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
oh yeah, I forgot our glorious country has free speech. Yeah, like when Eddie Vedder in NYC spoke against the war and was booed by thousands of fans who turned their back on him and threw crap at him. Yeah thats freedom of speech. Or how the Dixie Chicks were and still are banned from many country radio stations for being against the war. I completely forgot how free speech loving we as a nation are!
Or how about how those who disagreed with the war from the start were called unpatriotic or unamerican!
How about how if you are merely muslim or arab you are profiled at airports? Or how about how the u.s. treated prisoners in Abu Gharaib. I am sure the u.s. was thinking in free speech terms when u.s. guards were raping 10 year old boys.
I always love those america loving types who think america can do no wrong and everything other countries do is complete crap.
Yeah your right, people werent attacked, harmed, criticized, maligned, slandered, hurt, just because they spoke out on the war!
Look at my thread on sean penn for gods sake. The guy says the wars wrong and Bush should be impeached and thats what people talk about instead of his movies. Free speech, yeah right buddy! Look at what hannity said about Penn!
We dont have free speech in this country. Its a sham. One just has to understand how those post 9/11 were treated if they opposed the direction of this country.
Somehow I don't believe this... considering you work for an oil company and see yourself being president some day.
wrong again, I dont work for a oil company. I work for a trading company. and I absolutely NEVER see myself being president. amazing how wrong you are.
Hey, the leadership of Northern Ireland hasn't changed in about 2000 years it seems :rolleyes: BUT you're talking about things in the past... stop being so bitter and move on, will ya?
Can someone decode this?
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Comments
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
sure capitalism isnt perfect but hopefully there are laws that prevent huge corps from abusing the system such stopping a monopoly. I see the point here, I do but....American Investment can bring jobs and wealth to cuba. if cuba is smart about it, they can set tough rules or tax the shit out of american corporations. even with high taxes american companies will still go there. and american money will help the cuban economy.
I thought you wanted what the cuban people wanted, not the government
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
again, the cuban people? or the cuban dictator?
the people dont have much say in the matter. this is what you and angelica fail to realize
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It's clear you have missed the point. You stated that you'd like to see Cuba have freedom, even if it means 'forcing' it on them. Do you not see the problem with this statement? I am not 'free' if another is 'forcing' themselves on me, even in the name of freedom. Now, there is no problem in helping a nation achieve freedom, but the idea of 'force' should not enter the equation or you are no better than the dictators you oppose.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
With your idea of force, the cuban people STILL would have no say in the matter.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I know, I'm fucking crazy to think the cuban people want to be free
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Why does the u.s. care about Castro? Why is our recent history littered with comical attempts on Castro's life? What goddamn difference does it make if he overthrew Batista? Why does the u.s. care so much about him?
I stand by my statement. Castro stood up to the u.s. Thats an honorable thing. He stood his ground. He didnt take the u.s's crap. Just because the u.s. feels something is right (that castro shouldnt be in power) doesnt make that belief right.
Castro isnt perfect but what hero is? Even if your a Bush loving war supporting republican you have alot to atone for! In fact, why is supporting Castro condemned by insensitive people on this board, but being pro Iraq war which resulted in the deaths of 500000 plus Iraqi civilians and 3000 plus American soldiers, why is that looked at as honorable. I would support Castro any day, Bush is a liar and a killer. Castro isnt.
If supporting castro raising eyebrows, I dont really care to be honest. He has some great ideas, and he should be praised for them.
I just love the hipocrisy on this board. Supporting Bush, who basically is the devil incarnate is justifiable, but if someone says they support Castro they are treasonous! Doesnt work out in my mind!
Castro is a hero for saying "no" to the u.s. and doing things his own way. And again, lets be real, if he wants a socialist state why the hell shouldnt he have one?
people under rule of a dictator arent allowed to ask for help. and with thousands of cubans risking their lives by floating on a makeshift raft to escape is a sign that they need help.
... because I would like people to be free.
there is plenty of help going to Africa. and there are 54 countries in africa and 85% (just a guess) are under dictatorships. should we go marching around changing the world? ok lets go.
you need help
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
wake up. someone(cuban people) CANNOT ask for help under a dictator.
And again, what is our own president and our own system if cuba is considered a dictatorship?
You don't want the cuban people to be free, you want to impose your will on them. See my other response to you. An individual can NOT be free if you are 'forcing' anything on them and giving them no choice. Again, this makes you no different than the dictators you oppose.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
its not. who said it was?
A free country.
do you think you can criticize castro the same way you criticize bush if you lived in cuba?
NEXT
if given the choice, would any human, choose freedom or choose a dictator?
Thousands of Africans float over to Europe and die in the process also...
Somehow I don't believe this... considering you work for an oil company and see yourself being president some day... it just doesn't sound so sincere... also I think most Americans since 9/11 have overused the word 'freedom'. The 'freedom' you refer to exists very rarely in industrialised and corporate nations.
If a country asks for our help yes we should. People CAN ask even WITH dictators. We know what's going on in most of these countries and choose to ignore it... what is so special about Cuba?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
that would be nice
At least Castro does things to help his own people
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Or how about how those who disagreed with the war from the start were called unpatriotic or unamerican!
How about how if you are merely muslim or arab you are profiled at airports? Or how about how the u.s. treated prisoners in Abu Gharaib. I am sure the u.s. was thinking in free speech terms when u.s. guards were raping 10 year old boys.
I always love those america loving types who think america can do no wrong and everything other countries do is complete crap.
Yeah your right, people werent attacked, harmed, criticized, maligned, slandered, hurt, just because they spoke out on the war!
Look at my thread on sean penn for gods sake. The guy says the wars wrong and Bush should be impeached and thats what people talk about instead of his movies. Free speech, yeah right buddy! Look at what hannity said about Penn!
We dont have free speech in this country. Its a sham. One just has to understand how those post 9/11 were treated if they opposed the direction of this country.
really? first I heard of this. wrong again, I dont work for a oil company. I work for a trading company. and I absolutely NEVER see myself being president. amazing how wrong you are.
really? kinda like swimming across the ocean to escape? we give more aid then any other country in the world, BY FAR. cuba is so special becuase its 80 miles off the coast of america.
Can someone decode this?
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Sometimes it's not necessary. Not all dictatorships are bad, you know.
naděje umírá poslední