You people kill me sometimes! We're talking about alot more than just paying for past injustices. We have hundreds of thousands of people for about a couple of hundred years working from the time they could see in the morning until the time they could not possibly see at night, seven days a week. TOTALLY UNCOMPENSATED. Thats more than just an injustice. That, my friends, is alot of fucking backpay! An inheritance is categorized differntly than a fucking handout! One more time, if your ancestors had, or were owed, alot of money, you, their living heir, would want your money, and not consider it a fucking handout!
I really wish I could get through this thread, but because of time I have to stop here. But seriously, seriously. What slaves were put through, my fucking god! And the impact they had on economy, especially southern economy, cannot be underestimated. There would be no southern economy if it wasn't for their blood, sweat, and tears.
I'm totally with you on your questions of ancestors, cornnifer.
There is an amazing West Wing episode where Josh is skeptical of reparations, and someone talks to him about it. I highly recommend it!
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I really wish I could get through this thread, but because of time I have to stop here. But seriously, seriously. What slaves were put through, my fucking god! And the impact they had on economy, especially southern economy, cannot be underestimated. There would be no southern economy if it wasn't for their blood, sweat, and tears.
I'm totally with you on your questions of ancestors, cornnifer.
There is an amazing West Wing episode where Josh is skeptical of reparations, and someone talks to him about it. I highly recommend it!
OK, since you agree w/ reparations, when you have a break from work, would you please tell me what good would come out of paying reparations?
I dont think anyone is not beleiving that slaves were horribly treated 150 years ago though.
I really wish I could get through this thread, but because of time I have to stop here. But seriously, seriously. What slaves were put through, my fucking god! And the impact they had on economy, especially southern economy, cannot be underestimated. There would be no southern economy if it wasn't for their blood, sweat, and tears.
I'm totally with you on your questions of ancestors, cornnifer.
There is an amazing West Wing episode where Josh is skeptical of reparations, and someone talks to him about it. I highly recommend it!
There would be no economy, period, ANYWHERE, without blood, sweat, and tears from somebody! Now we're arguing that because slaves did good work, they deserve compensation? If said slaves were still alive, I'd actually agree with this.
"I'm totally with you" ... Really? You should sell all your posessions, then, and donate all the proceeds to the reparations movement. I'd actually be stunned if anyone in thread would do such a thing. I'd also be interested in observing the outcome. My hypothesis is that you'd see a guilty white person turned into a guilty, POOR white person, and in the end, history won't have changed.
I am afraid to even read this entire thread, for fear that peoples' responses will make my skin crawl. How is this idea even defensible, by any reasonable person? There are better things that can be done to combat inequality, assuming that this is even the motive here.
Don't read it. I shouldn't have, as now I'm back out of posting retirement, which will cause my work performance to suffer, which will cause the company I work for "lost dollars," which could contribute to lost jobs, which could affect our economy, which may be blamed on "The Man"...hence more discussions about how we should all be paid back for our life sucking or for the wrongs done to our great (x5) grandparents...plus now I feel like a racist for believing that the people who think this topic merits a debate are pure idiots. :(
19 Pearl Jam shows and still searching for Deep! 1998 (2) - East Lansing & Auburn Hills; 2000 (2) - Tampa & Noblesville; 2003 (2) - Lexington & Noblesville; 2006 (1) - Cincinnati; 2007 (1) - Chicago (Lollapalooza); 2008 (Ed in Milwaukee); 2009 (1) - Chicago; 2010 (1) - Noblesville; 2013 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2016 (Temple of the Dog in Los Angeles); 2017 (Ed at Ohana in Dana Point); 2021 (3) - Dana Point I, II & III; 2022 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2025 - Southern U.S. Tour Please!
Don't read it. I shouldn't have, as now I'm back out of posting retirement, which will cause my work performance to suffer, which will cause the company I work for "lost dollars," which could contribute to lost jobs, which could affect our economy, which may be blamed on "The Man"...hence more discussions about how we should all be paid back for our life sucking or for the wrongs done to our great (x5) grandparents...plus now I feel like a racist for believing that the people who think this topic merits a debate are pure idiots. :(
OK, since you agree w/ reparations, when you have a break from work, would you please tell me what good would come out of paying reparations?
I dont think anyone is not beleiving that slaves were horribly treated 150 years ago though.
You know, I don't get many breaks from work these days. And when I have a precious few moments, they certainly won't be spent fulfilling your requests. Like it would even matter if I answered your question. I think you have your mind made up.
I shouldn't have posted. I was reminded of the large presence of a-holes around here. Did anyone actually ever answer cornnifer's question about inheritence?
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
You know, I don't get many breaks from work these days. And when I have a precious few moments, they certainly won't be spent fulfilling your requests. Like it would even matter if I answered your question. I think you have your mind made up.
I shouldn't have posted. I was reminded of the large presence of a-holes around here. Did anyone actually ever answer cornnifer's question about inheritence?
About connifers question, i beleive it was answered a few times.* And your excuse about not having time to answer my question, while you had the time to type it out... well, I guess you're no different then some others on this board, you only reply to those who totally agree w/ you.
go back to work.
*edit- either answered or he/she was told it had nothing to do w/ the subject of reparations.
It's pretty simple: Would you be willing to live as a black person in America in order to be eligible for reparations?
In other words, are you asking me if I'd cash a check for free money it was given to me? Yup. I sure would.
I already said I wouldn't have a problem w/ the ppl that would take advantage of free money. I would have a problem of the groups/ people that started the whole reparation argument and the gov't leaders that agreed to it.
In other words, are you asking me if I'd cash a check for free money it was given to me? Yup. I sure would.
I already said I wouldn't have a problem w/ the ppl that would take advantage of free money. I would have a problem of the groups/ people that started the whole reparation argument and the gov't leaders that agreed to it.
I believe the question is "Would you be willing to trade in your white skin for a black one in exchange for a one-time reparations check?"
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I was born white, and no I wouldn't want to trade my skin color for a check or anything else. Now, call me dumb, but I dont see how me changing my skin color would enlighten me towards your idea of validating reparations.
Here's a hypothetical: If you had a choice, would you be willing to somehow live as a black person in order to get access to interest free loans and paid college tuition, or would you rather stay white?
If the answer is "stay white", than you should quit complaining.
My answer is, id stay white, and work hard and apply myself. Just like I actually have. So being white, working hard, and applying yourself means I should quit complaining?? Wow. Very liberal of you.
I was born white, and no I wouldn't want to trade my skin color for a check or anything else. Now, call me dumb, but I dont see how me changing my skin color would enlighten me towards your idea of validating reparations.
You're dumb.
Nevermind.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
Which is patently ridiculous, because it has everything to do with reparations.
How?
How can paying money to people in todays world to payback for something that was legal 150 yrs ago (albiet fucking horrible and down right morally wrong) compare to money passed down from father to son through inheritance?
He's not dumb. Your hypothetical example is. Preferring to live life as you have ( IDK very many white guys personally who get everything handed to them just cuz they are white) doesnt negate the right to complain about those who DO get things handed over to them for doing NOTHING except the color of their skin.
And if I was black, id be insulted if I got offered things just based on my color. How is that any better or less insulting than NOT recieving something base upon skin color? Any self respecting black person should be against reparations, affirmative action, etc.
How can paying money to people in todays world to payback for something that was legal 150 yrs ago (albiet fucking horrible and down right morally wrong) compare to money passed down from father to son through inheritance?
*sigh*
Because there was no money to be passed along from father to son because no one paid the father. We built a nation on their labor and didn't compensate them for it, and their descendants live in poverty today at least partly because the slaves weren't able to pass the fruits of their labors down to their children.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
My answer is, id stay white, and work hard and apply myself. Just like I actually have. So being white, working hard, and applying yourself means I should quit complaining?? Wow. Very liberal of you.
Christ almighty. The point was this: truroute said something to the effect of: "I want interest free loans, I want paid tech college tuition, etc., but I won't get it because I'm white." I'm sure it was meant sarcastically, he just wanted to point out how "unfair" reparations would be to white people. My response was to present him with this hypothetical: Would he be willing to live life as a black person in America in order to be eligible for the interest free loans and paid tuition? I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain it.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
He's not dumb. Your hypothetical example is. Preferring to live life as you have ( IDK very many white guys personally who get everything handed to them just cuz they are white) doesnt negate the right to complain about those who DO get things handed over to them for doing NOTHING except the color of their skin.
And if I was black, id be insulted if I got offered things just based on my color. How is that any better or less insulting than NOT recieving something base upon skin color? Any self respecting black person should be against reparations, affirmative action, etc.
I'd be alot more offended if I was deprived of something due to my skin color.
I'm sure that black America thanks you for the moral and ethical guidance.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
It's pretty simple: Would you be willing to live as a black person in America in order to be eligible for reparations?
"Twilight Zone" type questions/scenarios is the best comeback these people have. I love it!
You tell me Milhouse...would you fuck the Pope up the ass if your version of the hottest person on Earth woke up one morning next to you inside the Papal's body ala "Big" and he or she begged you for it?
Yeah...makes about as much sense as asking stupid "what if you were this color" questions, huh? Please play along by at least pretending we're not living in an alternate universe people. Jeesh!
By the way, I'd love to be a "black" person, and I'd let some dummies cut me a check if that's what they decided...but I sure as hell wouldn't be an advocate for it.
Besides..."black" people talk cool. They look good wearing outlandish and brightly colored clothing. They have long schlongs. I can get an internship at the NCAA while white males can't (true fact). And they excel at sports.
Sure...bring it on!
19 Pearl Jam shows and still searching for Deep! 1998 (2) - East Lansing & Auburn Hills; 2000 (2) - Tampa & Noblesville; 2003 (2) - Lexington & Noblesville; 2006 (1) - Cincinnati; 2007 (1) - Chicago (Lollapalooza); 2008 (Ed in Milwaukee); 2009 (1) - Chicago; 2010 (1) - Noblesville; 2013 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2016 (Temple of the Dog in Los Angeles); 2017 (Ed at Ohana in Dana Point); 2021 (3) - Dana Point I, II & III; 2022 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2025 - Southern U.S. Tour Please!
Quote:
Originally Posted by truroute
You have it better because you chose to better yourself. Everyone has the opportunity to go to college (if grades permit), even if you can't afford it straight up, they could go your route and obtain loans.
I don't know about everyone, but this is a lot closer to "the truth" than some unidimensional argument that all white people are lucky and all black people are screwed.
It's not as simple as all whites lucky and all black people screwed.
But the first post implies that those that are unsuccessful are that way because of their own lack of effort and that all of us has an equal opportunity for success. Blacks have not been as successful as whites. One can only conclude, I suppose, that it is because they are lacking in some way (drive, intellegence, morals, or something).
I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
This is just getting ridiculous. If you don't agree with reparations, fine, say so, debate, that's what we're here for. But don't sit here and pretend that you don't understand the questions being asked about whether or not you'd be willing to live as a black person in order to receive these wonderful reparations, or the issues concerning inheritance, because I'm not buying it. NO ONE is that stupid.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Because there was no money to be passed along from father to son because no one paid the father. We built a nation on their labor and didn't compensate them for it, and their descendants live in poverty today at least partly because the slaves weren't able to pass the fruits of their labors down to their children.
Call me crazy, but I think America would be just fine without bringing one African slave over to pick cotton in Uncle Whitey's fields. We would just have inveted polyester a lot sooner.
Seriously though...are you telling me that the European immigrants of free will who settled in the Northeast, or the settlers risking life and limb to head West had nothing to do with building this "great" nation? Let's not give our "black" friends too much credit now! jk
By the way...stick to smoking the hippie lettuce when the kids go to bed (like I do)...not during the day when you're on a message board, TRYING to sound intelligent.
Love ya!
19 Pearl Jam shows and still searching for Deep! 1998 (2) - East Lansing & Auburn Hills; 2000 (2) - Tampa & Noblesville; 2003 (2) - Lexington & Noblesville; 2006 (1) - Cincinnati; 2007 (1) - Chicago (Lollapalooza); 2008 (Ed in Milwaukee); 2009 (1) - Chicago; 2010 (1) - Noblesville; 2013 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2016 (Temple of the Dog in Los Angeles); 2017 (Ed at Ohana in Dana Point); 2021 (3) - Dana Point I, II & III; 2022 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2025 - Southern U.S. Tour Please!
I can get an internship at the NCAA while white males can't (true fact).
Boy, that's a terrible injustice. That's just as oppressive as centuries of slavery, Jim Crow Laws, segregation, etc. I can't believe that someone hasn't written a folk song about that yet.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
Christ almighty. The point was this: truroute said something to the effect of: "I want interest free loans, I want paid tech college tuition, etc., but I won't get it because I'm white." I'm sure it was meant sarcastically, he just wanted to point out how "unfair" reparations would be to white people. My response was to present him with this hypothetical: Would he be willing to live life as a black person in America in order to be eligible for the interest free loans and paid tuition? I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain it.
Explain why any race should get interest free loans and paid tuition based upon race. Either way. Maybe THEN you'd actually have a point.
Because there was no money to be passed along from father to son because no one paid the father. We built a nation on their labor and didn't compensate them for it, and their descendants live in poverty today at least partly because the slaves weren't able to pass the fruits of their labors down to their children.
Thank YOU for explaining yourself (unlike others). I *kinda* see what your are saying, but as of right now I"m still convinced the whole reparation request is nothing but a money grab started by the like of civil rights "leaders". And I'm still stuck on what it would fix other than handing checks out to the 150 year old ancestors of slaves.
The partly comment...I'd really have to dissagree. I'd have to say a very very small part in todays world.
Comments
I agree.
The question still stands that I've asked 2-3 times in this thread to the those that agree that reparations should be payed....
What good would come out of it?
No one has answered it.
I really wish I could get through this thread, but because of time I have to stop here. But seriously, seriously. What slaves were put through, my fucking god! And the impact they had on economy, especially southern economy, cannot be underestimated. There would be no southern economy if it wasn't for their blood, sweat, and tears.
I'm totally with you on your questions of ancestors, cornnifer.
There is an amazing West Wing episode where Josh is skeptical of reparations, and someone talks to him about it. I highly recommend it!
cross the river to the eastside
OK, since you agree w/ reparations, when you have a break from work, would you please tell me what good would come out of paying reparations?
I dont think anyone is not beleiving that slaves were horribly treated 150 years ago though.
There would be no economy, period, ANYWHERE, without blood, sweat, and tears from somebody! Now we're arguing that because slaves did good work, they deserve compensation? If said slaves were still alive, I'd actually agree with this.
"I'm totally with you" ... Really? You should sell all your posessions, then, and donate all the proceeds to the reparations movement. I'd actually be stunned if anyone in thread would do such a thing. I'd also be interested in observing the outcome. My hypothesis is that you'd see a guilty white person turned into a guilty, POOR white person, and in the end, history won't have changed.
Don't read it. I shouldn't have, as now I'm back out of posting retirement, which will cause my work performance to suffer, which will cause the company I work for "lost dollars," which could contribute to lost jobs, which could affect our economy, which may be blamed on "The Man"...hence more discussions about how we should all be paid back for our life sucking or for the wrongs done to our great (x5) grandparents...plus now I feel like a racist for believing that the people who think this topic merits a debate are pure idiots. :(
1998 (2) - East Lansing & Auburn Hills; 2000 (2) - Tampa & Noblesville; 2003 (2) - Lexington & Noblesville; 2006 (1) - Cincinnati; 2007 (1) - Chicago (Lollapalooza); 2008 (Ed in Milwaukee); 2009 (1) - Chicago; 2010 (1) - Noblesville; 2013 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2016 (Temple of the Dog in Los Angeles); 2017 (Ed at Ohana in Dana Point);
2021 (3) - Dana Point I, II & III; 2022 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2025 - Southern U.S. Tour Please!
Well, can I join the club?
You know, I don't get many breaks from work these days. And when I have a precious few moments, they certainly won't be spent fulfilling your requests. Like it would even matter if I answered your question. I think you have your mind made up.
I shouldn't have posted. I was reminded of the large presence of a-holes around here. Did anyone actually ever answer cornnifer's question about inheritence?
cross the river to the eastside
About connifers question, i beleive it was answered a few times.* And your excuse about not having time to answer my question, while you had the time to type it out... well, I guess you're no different then some others on this board, you only reply to those who totally agree w/ you.
go back to work.
*edit- either answered or he/she was told it had nothing to do w/ the subject of reparations.
It's pretty simple: Would you be willing to live as a black person in America in order to be eligible for reparations?
In other words, are you asking me if I'd cash a check for free money it was given to me? Yup. I sure would.
I already said I wouldn't have a problem w/ the ppl that would take advantage of free money. I would have a problem of the groups/ people that started the whole reparation argument and the gov't leaders that agreed to it.
I believe the question is "Would you be willing to trade in your white skin for a black one in exchange for a one-time reparations check?"
I'm not trying to appease anyone. I think America should have a real discussion/debate on this topic.
By the way, the government never did get around to giving freed slaves the 40 acres or the mules.
No, I'm asking you if you'd be willing to experience life as a black person in America in exchange for reparations.
cc; hippemom
I was born white, and no I wouldn't want to trade my skin color for a check or anything else. Now, call me dumb, but I dont see how me changing my skin color would enlighten me towards your idea of validating reparations.
I like both guys, but seriously, how is what you just said about Mencia much different than Chappelle. Both guys fit that description/
My answer is, id stay white, and work hard and apply myself. Just like I actually have. So being white, working hard, and applying yourself means I should quit complaining?? Wow. Very liberal of you.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
You're dumb.
Nevermind.
How?
How can paying money to people in todays world to payback for something that was legal 150 yrs ago (albiet fucking horrible and down right morally wrong) compare to money passed down from father to son through inheritance?
Of course, take the easy way out and say nevermind.
and yes, I set myself up to be called dumb.
He's not dumb. Your hypothetical example is. Preferring to live life as you have ( IDK very many white guys personally who get everything handed to them just cuz they are white) doesnt negate the right to complain about those who DO get things handed over to them for doing NOTHING except the color of their skin.
And if I was black, id be insulted if I got offered things just based on my color. How is that any better or less insulting than NOT recieving something base upon skin color? Any self respecting black person should be against reparations, affirmative action, etc.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Because there was no money to be passed along from father to son because no one paid the father. We built a nation on their labor and didn't compensate them for it, and their descendants live in poverty today at least partly because the slaves weren't able to pass the fruits of their labors down to their children.
Christ almighty. The point was this: truroute said something to the effect of: "I want interest free loans, I want paid tech college tuition, etc., but I won't get it because I'm white." I'm sure it was meant sarcastically, he just wanted to point out how "unfair" reparations would be to white people. My response was to present him with this hypothetical: Would he be willing to live life as a black person in America in order to be eligible for the interest free loans and paid tuition? I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain it.
I can't explain this again.
You probably do. You probably also know more than a few people who got deprived of certain things because they are black.
I'd be alot more offended if I was deprived of something due to my skin color.
I'm sure that black America thanks you for the moral and ethical guidance.
"Twilight Zone" type questions/scenarios is the best comeback these people have. I love it!
You tell me Milhouse...would you fuck the Pope up the ass if your version of the hottest person on Earth woke up one morning next to you inside the Papal's body ala "Big" and he or she begged you for it?
Yeah...makes about as much sense as asking stupid "what if you were this color" questions, huh? Please play along by at least pretending we're not living in an alternate universe people. Jeesh!
By the way, I'd love to be a "black" person, and I'd let some dummies cut me a check if that's what they decided...but I sure as hell wouldn't be an advocate for it.
Besides..."black" people talk cool. They look good wearing outlandish and brightly colored clothing. They have long schlongs. I can get an internship at the NCAA while white males can't (true fact). And they excel at sports.
Sure...bring it on!
1998 (2) - East Lansing & Auburn Hills; 2000 (2) - Tampa & Noblesville; 2003 (2) - Lexington & Noblesville; 2006 (1) - Cincinnati; 2007 (1) - Chicago (Lollapalooza); 2008 (Ed in Milwaukee); 2009 (1) - Chicago; 2010 (1) - Noblesville; 2013 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2016 (Temple of the Dog in Los Angeles); 2017 (Ed at Ohana in Dana Point);
2021 (3) - Dana Point I, II & III; 2022 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2025 - Southern U.S. Tour Please!
Originally Posted by truroute
You have it better because you chose to better yourself. Everyone has the opportunity to go to college (if grades permit), even if you can't afford it straight up, they could go your route and obtain loans.
It's not as simple as all whites lucky and all black people screwed.
But the first post implies that those that are unsuccessful are that way because of their own lack of effort and that all of us has an equal opportunity for success. Blacks have not been as successful as whites. One can only conclude, I suppose, that it is because they are lacking in some way (drive, intellegence, morals, or something).
Call me crazy, but I think America would be just fine without bringing one African slave over to pick cotton in Uncle Whitey's fields. We would just have inveted polyester a lot sooner.
Seriously though...are you telling me that the European immigrants of free will who settled in the Northeast, or the settlers risking life and limb to head West had nothing to do with building this "great" nation? Let's not give our "black" friends too much credit now! jk
By the way...stick to smoking the hippie lettuce when the kids go to bed (like I do)...not during the day when you're on a message board, TRYING to sound intelligent.
Love ya!
1998 (2) - East Lansing & Auburn Hills; 2000 (2) - Tampa & Noblesville; 2003 (2) - Lexington & Noblesville; 2006 (1) - Cincinnati; 2007 (1) - Chicago (Lollapalooza); 2008 (Ed in Milwaukee); 2009 (1) - Chicago; 2010 (1) - Noblesville; 2013 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2016 (Temple of the Dog in Los Angeles); 2017 (Ed at Ohana in Dana Point);
2021 (3) - Dana Point I, II & III; 2022 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2025 - Southern U.S. Tour Please!
Boy, that's a terrible injustice. That's just as oppressive as centuries of slavery, Jim Crow Laws, segregation, etc. I can't believe that someone hasn't written a folk song about that yet.
Explain why any race should get interest free loans and paid tuition based upon race. Either way. Maybe THEN you'd actually have a point.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Thank YOU for explaining yourself (unlike others). I *kinda* see what your are saying, but as of right now I"m still convinced the whole reparation request is nothing but a money grab started by the like of civil rights "leaders". And I'm still stuck on what it would fix other than handing checks out to the 150 year old ancestors of slaves.
The partly comment...I'd really have to dissagree. I'd have to say a very very small part in todays world.
As Im sure they'd thank you for your undying allegiance to giving handouts to those who dont deserve it too. GL with it.
www.myspace.com/jensvad