Reparations (monetary compensation to slave ancestors)

truroutetruroute Posts: 251
edited July 2006 in A Moving Train
What do you guys think about the Gov't or Corporations giving millions, possibly billions of dollars to "pay back" people today whos great great great maybe even greater grandparents were slaves?

Does anyone agree with the whole reparation issue? If so, why?

I personally think that reparations are nothing but a pathetic money grab. Nothing good will come out of it to help racial issues today.

some links:
A quick look at slavery reparations efforts
http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-35/1152468561277940.xml&storylist=newsmichigan

some quotes on the question
http://www.nationalcenter.org/Reparations.html
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    if any people alive today were slaves during the early part of our countries history they are entitled to money. If not, no deal... it's not complicated.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    truroute wrote:
    I personally think that reparations are nothing but a pathetic money grab. Nothing good will come out of it.
    You can't apply today's morals to yesterdays actions. Admit the mistake and move on.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Don't do it...will end up with a system (up here in Canada) that is based on 100 year old treaties....I agree with surferdude have to admit the mistake and move one....
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    truroute wrote:
    What do you guys think about the Gov't or Corporations giving millions, possibly billions of dollars to "pay back" people today whos great great great maybe even greater grandparents were slaves?

    Does anyone agree with the whole reparation issue? If so, why?

    I personally think that reparations are nothing but a pathetic money grab. Nothing good will come out of it to help racial issues today.

    some links:
    A quick look at slavery reparations efforts
    http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-35/1152468561277940.xml&storylist=newsmichigan

    some quotes on the question
    http://www.nationalcenter.org/Reparations.html

    I have absolutely no problem with the reparations issue. If your great, great, great perhaps greater grandparents had, or were owed ALOT of freaking money, lets say backpay for uncompensated labor, and you, were the living heir, would you not want your duckets? Its as simple as that if you ask me. The majority of wealth in this country is inherited wealth. Its an easy concept to grasp.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Plus it would be a bearucratic nightmare determing where the money was to go...totally spelt that word wrong but o'well...
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    surferdude wrote:
    You can't apply today's morals to yesterdays actions. Admit the mistake and move on.

    Its not a matter of applying todays morals to yesterdays actions. Its money owed to people unable to claim it on account of them being dead. That means the money is passed on to the living heirs. I ask again if your ancestors had been owed a bunch of ends, but were now dead, would you, their living heir, be o.k with being told to "move on".
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    cornnifer wrote:
    I have absolutely no problem with the reparations issue. If your great, great, great perhaps greater grandparents had, or were owed ALOT of freaking money, lets say backpay for uncompensated labor, and you, were the living heir, would you not want your duckets? Its as simple as that if you ask me. The majority of wealth in this country is inherited wealth. Its an easy concept to grasp.

    if we are making up for something in the past then we should pay them the wages that were earned in the past, b/c that is what they earned...some trades only earned 2, 4, 6 dollars per week. If it's about getting what is earned and deserved that is what was earned and deserved at the time. No interest or adjustments for inflation. As soon as we adjust for inflation and today's dollar we are applying todays wages for yesterdays work and that is wrong as well.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,928
    cornnifer wrote:
    Its not a matter of applying todays morals to yesterdays actions. Its money owed to people unable to claim it on account of them being dead. That means the money is passed on to the living heirs. I ask again if your ancestors had been owed a bunch of ends, but were now dead, would you, their living heir, be o.k with being told to "move on".

    i have to agree.
    if there is a way to trace it to the proper people, it should be done.
    seems the least that can be done to make repparations for such misdeeds.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    i have to agree.
    if there is a way to trace it to the proper people, it should be done.
    seems the least that can be done to make repparations for such misdeeds.

    But the problem is determing who would get the money...plus dealing with thousands of which who would not deserve the money at all...would be a nightmare job....
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,928
    But the problem is determing who would get the money...plus dealing with thousands of which who would not deserve the money at all...would be a nightmare job....

    simply b/c something might be difficult should not hinder its attempt if it's the right thing to do.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    But the problem is determing who would get the money...plus dealing with thousands of which who would not deserve the money at all...would be a nightmare job....

    i bet most people in the world can trace heritage back to slavery at some point...america, rome, africa, asia...does everyone deserve it? think about ancient egypt there were over a million israelite slaves... if one group gets it everyone should get it...let's all move on.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    simply b/c something might be difficult should not hinder its attempt if it's the right thing to do.

    In Canada Native Americans currently pay no taxes, get monthly cheques, etc. based upon 100 year old treaties....they still get these privlages today...and in IMHO that is the reason for, lack of better terms, there poor performance (very bad word but whatever) in modern society sadly some have learned to become so dependant on free money they do nothing productive (this is a generalization as I have many native friends who are doing great things and even they say the majority are free loaders which I realate to free money and unhealthy dependancy upon it)handing out free money for things that happened many moons ago will not help anything....it was a different culture back then why should present day citizens pay for what was wrong (yet totally acceptable back then) back then...it will lead to more "money grab" ideas for people who felt they were wronged eons ago...this situation can then be applied to the Japanese forced in camps in WW2 (in Canada we said sorry time to move on though...there was no outcry for cash)...I know the motive is pure and genuine....but at the same time makes no sense to me....
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    chopitdown wrote:
    i bet most people in the world can trace heritage back to slavery at some point...america, rome, africa, asia...does everyone deserve it? think about ancient egypt there were over a million israelite slaves... if one group gets it everyone should get it...let's all move on.

    It will lead to every group wanting it....for all sort of lame reasons...(this does not imply that slavery is a lame reason)
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    But the problem is determing who would get the money...plus dealing with thousands of which who would not deserve the money at all...would be a nightmare job....

    It may be a little difficult. But Its pretty safe to say that just about anyone Black in America is a descendant of African slaves. Might not be quite as hard as you say. Besides, cleaning the shitty satellite outhouses at construction sites is also a nightmare job, but it has to be done, somebody does it.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    chopitdown wrote:
    i bet most people in the world can trace heritage back to slavery at some point...america, rome, africa, asia...does everyone deserve it? think about ancient egypt there were over a million israelite slaves... if one group gets it everyone should get it...let's all move on.

    Yeah, but who said anything about the whole world? Who said the American Government owes reparations to the grandchildren of ancient Egyptian slaves?
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,928
    In Canada Native Americans currently pay no taxes, get monthly cheques, etc. based upon 100 year old treaties....they still get these privlages today...and in IMHO that is the reason for, lack of better terms, there poor performance (very bad word but whatever) in modern society sadly some have learned to become so dependant on free money they do nothing productive (this is a generalization as I have many native friends who are doing great things and even they say the majority are free loaders which I realate to free money and unhealthy dependancy upon it)handing out free money for things that happened many moons ago will not help anything....it was a different culture back then why should present day citizens pay for what was wrong (yet totally acceptable back then) back then...it will lead to more "money grab" ideas for people who felt they were wronged eons ago...this situation can then be applied to the Japanese forced in camps in WW2 (in Canada we said sorry time to move on though...there was no outcry for cash)...I know the motive is pure and genuine....but at the same time makes no sense to me....

    i politely agree to disagree.
    again, in my mind...if something can be done, then it should be.
    as to what you discuss of canada, i have no idea...and i certainly will not wiegh in with an opinion of something i really know zero about.
    it may not be easy, but if things can be determined, some true sense of fairness to it, etc.....i think it is worthy to at least consider and attempt reparations of some form.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    It will lead to every group wanting it....for all sort of lame reasons...(this does not imply that slavery is a lame reason)

    my point exactly... It's a slippery slope and a pointless one, imo.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    cornnifer wrote:
    Yeah, but who said anything about the whole world? Who said the American Government owes reparations to the grandchildren of ancient Egyptian slaves?

    I understand your point; I just happen to have a different opinion. Also, there were many african people selling their own countrymen into slavery as well, so I think those countries in Africa should help chip in b/c they contributed to the problem.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    i politely agree to disagree.
    again, in my mind...if something can be done, then it should be.
    as to what you discuss of canada, i have no idea...and i certainly will not wiegh in with an opinion of something i really know zero about.
    it may not be easy, but if things can be determined, some true sense of fairness to it, etc.....i think it is worthy to at least consider and attempt reparations of some form.

    But is it fair to punish the tax payers living today for what there ancestors did when things were totally acceptable...and like-wise its nice to argue...nicely...:)
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    chopitdown wrote:
    I understand your point; I just happen to have a different opinion. Also, there were many african people selling their own countrymen into slavery as well, so I think those countries in Africa should help chip in b/c they contributed to the problem.

    different opinions are great. They make the world, and this board go 'round. No for more of mine... :)

    Those Africans selling their countrymen to American slave traders cannot really be held accountable. We can't really engage in the playground game of "Johnny was throwing sand too! Why doesn't he get detention"? Besides It is The United States that is ultimately responsible for the horror, and It is the United States that grew into the wealthiest country on earth due to the blood, sweat and tears of hundreds of years of completely uncompensated slave labor.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    But is it fair to punish the tax payers living today for what there ancestors did when things were totally acceptable...and like-wise its nice to argue...nicely...:)

    How would this be punishing the taxpayers. You're paying taxes anyway, and the government is spending it how they see fit. Right now I'm paying for a fucking war I don't endorse! I'm paying for ten thousand dollar whitehouse toilet seats! The point is your being taxed regardless. It is the government that would have to reassign where tax money is going. No extra skin off your back.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    cornnifer wrote:
    different opinions are great. They make the world, and this board go 'round. No for more of mine... :)

    Those Africans selling their countrymen to American slave traders cannot really be held accountable. We can't really engage in the playground game of "Johnny was throwing sand too! Why doesn't he get detention"? Besides It is The United States that is ultimately responsible for the horror, and It is the United States that grew into the wealthiest country on earth due to the blood, sweat and tears of hundreds of years of completely uncompensated slave labor.

    fair enough, how bout my idea of repaying them the wages from the time of slavery...would that satisfy? Again, I don't think we'll agree on this but that's ok...i just figured I'd come up with something that could be somewhat satisfactory to me, if by some freak chance reparations were granted. If we're gonna put the work in to find the correct slave descendants we should find the correct slave holders and charge them. Don't put the burden on everyone. there were 350,000 slave holders estimated in the US history...if you can find the slave descendants and the slave holders let all of them go to court and work it out :) and I'm out for tonite...gotta finish moving.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • prytocorduroyprytocorduroy Posts: 4,354
    Honestly, I'd say no. Those people who'd be getting it would be basically getting a hand out. It'd be like welfare in a way. Plus how would one determine the amount owed? And if multiple people alive were related to one slave, how would it be split or who would get it?
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    cornnifer wrote:
    How would this be punishing the taxpayers. You're paying taxes anyway, and the government is spending it how they see fit. Right now I'm paying for a fucking war I don't endorse! I'm paying for ten thousand dollar whitehouse toilet seats! The point is your being taxed regardless. It is the government that would have to reassign where tax money is going. No extra skin off your back.


    Im Canadian my money funds a pointless war in Afganistan as well...but I dont want to discuss tax law...that is simply not my point...Im saying that by treading into those waters you will get more groups who say they were alienated somewhat in the past and they want money...don't believe me look at your litagation situation in the States, everyone sues everyone for nothing most of the time..now imagine you are giving money way for something that was done wrong so long ago....it will turn into the mess that your justice system is with lawsuits....
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    danny72688 wrote:
    Honestly, I'd say no. Those people who'd be getting it would be basically getting a hand out. ?

    Bull shit. It would be more like an inheritance long over due. We should, by your standards, take away all inherited wealth from every heir and heiress in this country, and make them work at burger king. I want Paris Hilton flipping my next whopper.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • prytocorduroyprytocorduroy Posts: 4,354
    cornnifer wrote:
    Bull shit. It would be more like an inheritance long over due. We should, by your standards, take away all inherited wealth from every heir and heiress in this country, and make them work at burger king. I want Paris Hilton flipping my next whopper.

    Make them work at Burger King? Who's forcing anybody to do that? And I don't see how you came to that conclusion above, but that's fine. You've got your opinion, I've got mine.
  • I have never owned a slave, so no.
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    cornnifer wrote:
    Bull shit. It would be more like an inheritance long over due. We should, by your standards, take away all inherited wealth from every heir and heiress in this country, and make them work at burger king. I want Paris Hilton flipping my next whopper.

    Okay whats your plan in accomplishing this feat?

    Who gets the money?
    How do you prove they should get the money?
    How much money they deserve?

    Convince me with a plan....saying something needs to be done because its the right thing to do, does not get you anywhere....you need a plan.... look at Iraq...no plan....one big mess....
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,217
    I say, get it over with. Pay it out with one stipulation... no more blaming your personal situation on events from the distant past.
    If you take the reparations that your ancestors deserve and waste it away on a pimped out Escalade and eventually end up is the same place you are today... that's YOUR fault and you can no longer blame the White Devil for all of your problems.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Cosmo wrote:
    I say, get it over with. Pay it out with one stipulation... no more blaming your personal situation on events from the distant past.
    If you take the reparations that your ancestors deserve and waste it away on a pimped out Escalade and eventually end up is the same place you are today... that's YOUR fault and you can no longer blame the White Devil for all of your problems.

    It wont work...here in Canada where Native Americans pay NO taxes, get monthly government cheques, university/college is free (this has only been going for lets say 100+ years)....the majority still blame the white man for their misery...actually I tend to blame the free hand-outs its created an unhealthy dependance on the system....my friends who are Natives also think the same they went to school, succeeded just like everyone else...even they can see the problem and they are Native....
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