This makes me laugh. If you inherit money from a dead relative. You, Cosmo, can spend it however the fuck you want! Its your fucking money! It has nothing to do with personal situations or trying to correct them with money! I don't see whats so hard to see about that.
...
What are you talking about? I'm not asking for reparations and I'm not blaming the past for my present problems? and what does INHEIRITANCE have to do with anything? Wait... I know why you don't get it... it's because you are you, right?
We're talking about blacks, blaming Whites for their fucked up situation because of slavery that occurred in America a couple of Centuries ago and wanting financial restitution for it. I'm sick of this blaming everyone else and would rather just pay out and say, "Here's your fucking money (that you're asking for). Now, we're even. Don't come crying back and blaming everyone else because you are so fucked up".
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
No offense, were both friends, but would you be willing to give your annual salary to another person in order to compensate them for their ancestors past difficulties...and if so...what if that person that you're giving your money to was a worthless, lazy, drug dealing punk that never wanted to earn a dime in his life? Does he deserve your annual salary because some asshole fucked over his great grandfather X10 250 years ago?!
Seriously my friend...
The way you word it... no. But heres the thing. No one would be giving their annual salary. And in this case, it doesn't really matter how lazy the recipients might or might not be. We're basically talking about what amounts to an inheritance. If some rich old man dies and wills his fortune to a grandson, his living heir, it doesn't really matter whether the grandson smokes crack, solicits protitutes, and has never worked a day in his life. It was his grandfathers money, and he is entitled to it. That, to me, is really the crux of the matter.
BTW,its nice to see ya around here. missed ya
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
...
What are you talking about? I'm not asking for reparations and I'm not blaming the past for my present problems? and what does INHEIRITANCE have to do with anything? Wait... I know why you don't get it... it's because you are you, right?
We're talking about blacks, blaming Whites for their fucked up situation because of slavery that occurred in America a couple of Centuries ago and wanting financial restitution for it. I'm sick of this blaming everyone else and would rather just pay out and say, "Here's your fucking money (that you're asking for). Now, we're even. Don't come crying back and blaming everyone else because you are so fucked up".
look, if you don't understand the concept of analogy, i havn't really the energy to explain it to you. As far as the rest, read my other posts in this thread. I'm not repeating them.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
look, if you don't understand the concept of analogy, i havn't really the energy to explain it to you. As far as the rest, read my other posts in this thread. I'm not repeating them.
...
Tell you what... put me on your Ignore List and do not respond to my comments directly with references to tangent analogies that have nothing to do with the comments and/or statement being made. It'll make life easier for both of us.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Connifer, your argument makes absolutly no sense to me. You still haven't justified or given a good reason why reparations should be payed IMO. And if reps were payed.....then what? Seriously. What then?
What good would come out of it?
Please, name 1 single positive thing that would happen after all these people would be payed alot of money for something their ancestors went through?
I think that the way the American justice system is w/ all the bullshit lawsuits today has allowed this retarded idea to pop into some civil rights groups head and honestly......I think there is a good possiblility reps will be payed in the future, only for the fact that politicians are so "scared" to offend anyone claiming "racist" or "hatecrime". I'll say it again, I think reparations are nothing more than a pathetic money grab. And if reps were granted, I couldn't really blame the ppl that cash the check, hey free money, why not. My beef would be w/ the organizers of the reparation mess and the 'leaders' that would grant this crap.
And if reps were to be payed, I think that the disbandment of the NAACP should follow, No more United Negro College Fund, or any other type of 'charity'(for lack of a better word right now) that is aimed primarily towards the black community. Reps payed, now no more bitching.
While I find it a complete disgrace that former slaves where never fully compensated for the work they performed while enslaved, to carry out reparations now would be a nightmare. It would be extremely difficult to determine whose ance4storswhere slaves and whose where not. Not only that where does it end. Do we then have to pay back the Native Americans for the land we stole from them. It was a crime what was done to the slaves but trying to move forward with reparations 100+ years after the fact is too late.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
While I find it a complete disgrace that former slaves where never fully compensated for the work they performed while enslaved, to carry out reparations now would be a nightmare. It would be extremely difficult to determine whose ance4storswhere slaves and whose where not. Not only that where does it end. Do we then have to pay back the Native Americans for the land we stole from them. It was a crime what was done to the slaves but trying to move forward with reparations 100+ years after the fact is too late.
Well said.
But the question is still in my head and I cannot even bullshit myself for an answer.....What good will come out of it?
Here's a thought: If some group of individuals had enslaved my ancestors for decades, and made them work sun up to sun down with no pay for all those years, and bought and sold them like cattle, and mentally and physically abused them...
Why, even 200 years later, would I want to ACCEPT that money from the current families of those who enslaved MY family?!?!
Wouldn't you just rather tell them to stick that money up their fucking ass, and say "No thanks, keep your blood money, I'll make it in life on my own."
Just my 2 cents.
MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
It may be a little difficult. But Its pretty safe to say that just about anyone Black in America is a descendant of African slaves. Might not be quite as hard as you say. Besides, cleaning the shitty satellite outhouses at construction sites is also a nightmare job, but it has to be done, somebody does it.
I'll bet many, if not most of the so-called "white" people in America can also trace their roots back to be a decendant of an African slave. That's why the reparations won't work.
It's a stupid idea anyway with no justification or logic.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'll bet many, if not most of the so-called "white" people in America can also trace their roots back to be a decendant of an African slave. That's why the reparations won't work.
It's a stupid idea anyway with no justification or logic.
Also a good point. You would have more crackers coming out of the woodwork declaring themselves as having African heritage than you could shake a stick at.
MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
Also a good point. You would have more crackers coming out of the woodwork declaring themselves as having African heritage than you could shake a stick at.
Like I said earlier a bureacratic nightmare......would be so much wasted money just trying to deal with all the people "making a case" for the money...
There are obviously the nightmares of determining eligibility, as birth records from the mid 1800's are spotty to begin with- and even worse for the slave population. I think this would actually make it an impossibility.
Also, its totally unfair to make people non slave owning bloodline tax payers pay when they did not benefit from it. Its also not fair to make a person born 120 years after slavery was over pay for the sins of their great great great grandfathers- its just ridiculous... what if the family ISNT wealthy? they get out of it, just because they arent rich now?
So should a house slaves family that only fetched tea get payed more or less than a guy that worked his ass off in the field? What about the slaves that had really really abusive owners- should their families get more? Some slave owners actually took very good care of their slaves- basically had better lives than the poor do now... should they get anything?
I like the speed limit example. As morally awful as slavery was, the fact is, it was not illegal. In fact, aspects of it were legal and legitimate enough to be addressed in the constitution--- and families that owned them can not be held accountable for taking part in something that was totally legal at the time that it was done.
Like I said earlier a bureacratic nightmare......would be so much wasted money just trying to deal with all the people "making a case" for the money...
...
Just make it easy so it'll go the fuck away. Why make it so goddamn complicated?
Add up all the black people that are born in America as of today at noon... don't count mother fucking fetuses or anyone who has got spit out the pussy after that.
If you're white and say you are in the bloodline that dates back to 1782 when your slutty great, great, great grandmother got tired of shriveled up caucasian needle dick and wanted to get split like a log by the slave, Big Dick Black... FUCK YOU... you are White you honky mother fucker, you ain't getting goddamn shit. Now, shut the fuck up and sit your sorry, needle dick, cracker ass down!
Take a bunch of fucking money and divide it up in equal portions. This means the poorest black kid in the worst part of Detriot to Oprah and Michael Jordan and Colin Powell.
Give each one check and say, "This is it. No more blaming the Whitey because you are addicted to crack and rob the Korean grocer".
Let Oprah and Michael Jordan and Colin Powell figure out what to do with their share... give it to the poorest black kid in the worst part of Detriot or endorse and drop it in their passbook account.
...
Fuckin' aye.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I think it's rediculous to even consider this....slavery was around in the america's before there was a United States of America. So blame Europeans, blame Africans that sold other Africans to Europeans, blame Europeans that enslaved other (white) Europeans that they conquered before the African slave trade, blame Asians that have conquered each other through time and enslaved the losers, if anything, though it wasn't intented to by the framers necessarily, the Constitution led to the end of slavery in the United States. It led to us being able to change as a society, though we are all still paying for slavery today as a nation.
I think the best thing we can do is teach the truth about the past, and work toward never repeating it, and work toward being tolerant of our differences, respectful of our cultures, and understand that we are all in this together, and there just isn't any place in our society for bigotry, racism, and other hateful intolerance of others if we ever want to start moving forward again as a society. We can't grow anymore if we can't get over our petty differences.
We need to come together as a species to work toward our future, the planet won't sustain us for another species at the rate we are consuming and growing...what do we do? Destroy each other or come together?
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
While I find it a complete disgrace that former slaves where never fully compensated for the work they performed while enslaved, to carry out reparations now would be a nightmare. It would be extremely difficult to determine whose ance4storswhere slaves and whose where not. Not only that where does it end. Do we then have to pay back the Native Americans for the land we stole from them. It was a crime what was done to the slaves but trying to move forward with reparations 100+ years after the fact is too late.
yea, maybe..i answered with my heart first...not really thinking it all through. it's all just a damn shame, a real tragedy...but you're right in regards to native americans...how can we ever pay them back? so yea, i guess there is really no way to truly give back to the descendants of slaves, native americans, etc...except for there to be a true official apology for starters. i don't know what else can be done beyond that, and if there is a sensible/reasonable thing we can do...i wish we as a nation could at least give everyone better opportunities. i mean honestly, i am a first generation american, at least on my father's side..my mother's i don't think went too far back here either...so i guess in that sense, no 'guilt' on me....but i still think it's horrible. so yea.......i guess it is too little, too late for true and meaningful reparations.
What do you guys think about the Gov't or Corporations giving millions, possibly billions of dollars to "pay back" people today whos great great great maybe even greater grandparents were slaves?
Does anyone agree with the whole reparation issue? If so, why?
I personally think that reparations are nothing but a pathetic money grab. Nothing good will come out of it to help racial issues today.
Cornifer: way to keep swinging when it's you against everyone else.
Here is my take, however, on why NOT to do this:
1. The logistical nightmare. Tracing who deserves it, how much they deserve, etc. would be impossible. And you know damn well the media would find a few people who cheated the system to buy frivilous crap--while it would be less than 1% of the people doing it, most of white America would think it was almost all blacks doing it, setting race relations back.
2. More importantly, it does not fix anything. Should slaves have been compensated? Yes. Would that compensation have turned into a better situation for blacks in America today? Hard to say. Would the money do so today? No. A one time payment would have white America saying--"there NOW we're even, so now your treatment in the past offically has nothing to do with your current situation." This would be bullshit. Then the people would take their money (which could not be much without bleeding the country dry) and save it, spend it, invest it, whatever. Would I like to get a one-time payment? sure. Would it make my overall situation better? No. It would not help them. It would be a gesture. An expensive gesture that would be about guilt and would ultimately set race relations back.
The way I see it, if you cannot at least partly blame whites for the low socio-economic status of blacks in the US today, you need a reality check. Slavery, emancipation (no land, no money, sharecropping, still illegal to teach blacks to read), discrimination in jobs, etc. Blacks became legally equal to whites in 1964 (Civil Rights Act). If you expect them to have "caught" whites socially/economically in a generation and a half, you had high expectations.
So why are blacks socio-economically behind whites?
A) The history of their treatment by whites has left them in a position in which they are usually born at an inherent disadvantage. They are morally inferior, intellectually inferior and/or have a lower work ethic than whites.
I think it pretty much has to be A or B. Most white Americans would never say that it is A, so they must think it is B. I think it's A. (I am sure some will find a "C" that blames present-day white liberals somehow, therby avoiding the racsim of "B" and the admission of "A").
The bottom line is that a few bucks worth of "apology" money is not going to solve anything. It is not worth the money or the effort. The effort, should we wish to address the problem of "A" above, needs to come, I suppose, from a variety of things that I frankly do not have the answer (though I suspect K-12 education would play a big role).
I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
...
Here is my take, however, on why NOT to do this:
**EDIT**.
...
Hey, Uncle Leo...
Wouldn't you pay whatever it takes to get fucking Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton the shut the fuck up already about the slavery thing?
"Here mother fuckers... here's your weak reparations money!!! Now, shut the fuck up about the slavery thing already!!!"
That could be printed across the goddamn checks.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Here's a thought: If some group of individuals had enslaved my ancestors for decades, and made them work sun up to sun down with no pay for all those years, and bought and sold them like cattle, and mentally and physically abused them...
Why, even 200 years later, would I want to ACCEPT that money from the current families of those who enslaved MY family?!?!
Wouldn't you just rather tell them to stick that money up their fucking ass, and say "No thanks, keep your blood money, I'll make it in life on my own."
Just my 2 cents.
But having it handed to you is so much easier. Why do for yourself what you can guilt others into doing for you>?
What do you guys think about the Gov't or Corporations giving millions, possibly billions of dollars to "pay back" people today whos great great great maybe even greater grandparents were slaves?
Does anyone agree with the whole reparation issue? If so, why?
I personally think that reparations are nothing but a pathetic money grab. Nothing good will come out of it to help racial issues today.
I think its valid.. we took away the people of today's history - their ability to be educated and indoctrinated into the world. They had a handicap whether you like to acknowledge it or not. Every generation in my family has done better than the one before, which is a direct result of their sharing of what they learned and passing it down.
However, I do recognize the difficulty in its having the desired effect, and selling it as worth while to the masses that feel they had nothing to do with it. and the masses that will fight to the death any idea that will cost them.
Like the art the Nazi's stole, it's a great wrong that will probably never be righted. Discussion is good but the money will probably never be repayed.
Anyone - no matter what race, ethnic background or nationality would be entitled to "reparations" in some form if such a thing were to be considered viable.
What right does anyone now entitle them to collect for the suffering of people hundreds of years before they were around?
I'm sure everyone in the world would be able to trace some family blood line to some sort of wrong doing, injustice and similiar, so why should such a thing be taken serious?
This issue in my opinion, is nothing more than people taking a problem like racism (which is very apparent in the US) and using it to get money as if people are owed something. The people who commited the crimes and practiced slavery are all dead, as are the ones who were enslaved, trying to profit in some manner off that is nothing more than selfish intent and blaming others for your own current situations. There are many problems that slavery caused in our nation, yet many steps have been taken to rectify them (not all so successful). Asking for handouts instead is just out of line and using the past as an excuse for the current issues we all face.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
The way you word it... no. But heres the thing. No one would be giving their annual salary. And in this case, it doesn't really matter how lazy the recipients might or might not be. We're basically talking about what amounts to an inheritance. If some rich old man dies and wills his fortune to a grandson, his living heir, it doesn't really matter whether the grandson smokes crack, solicits protitutes, and has never worked a day in his life. It was his grandfathers money, and he is entitled to it. That, to me, is really the crux of the matter.
BTW,its nice to see ya around here. missed ya
Using your idea of inheritence, doesnt that mean that the repartions should be paid by the decendants of slave owners, rather the the US taxpayer? If its possible to create a plan on who is to be paid reparations, it should be just as possible to determine who owned the slaves.
In other words, all repartions should be paid to decendants of slaves by the decendants of the slave owners.
This is the last time I'm going to say any of this in this thread. It seems most of you are either not getting or completely ignoring the points anyway.
First of all, YOU wouldn't really be paying for anything! Its not like the money would be deducted from your paycheck, or bank account or anything like that. The government would be paying for it. Perhaps, yes it would come out of tax dollars, but, so what? Your tax dollars are already paying for a fucked up, unjustified war based on half truths and outright lies. Your paying for George W.'s eight year vacation in Maine. You're being taxed regardless, and the government is already spending that money for shit you may not support or used to fix problems you are totally not responsible for! You're already being taxed. That is never going to stop, and you have no say where your tax dollars are spent. It isn't your money anymore! It belongs to the government. So, the "they're not getting a single cent from me" argument is really invalid.
Next, reparations, as far as I see it, are not about a payoff to rectify past injustices, "Make-up for" the horrors and brutality that was the African slave trade, or "fix" all of the social and economic inequalities that are a direct result of slavery. NO amount of money could accomplish this. No dollar amount. It isn't about that. To, me, its about hundreds of years of completely uncompensated labor by hundreds of thousands of individuals kidnapped and brought here against their will. Its backpay. Those who earned it are obviously, unable to collect so their money goes to their living heirs. Period. Just like all of you would expect. Its kind of like an estate. And This CAN be mathematically computed. Numbers can be crunched. It isn't about a "payoff" for crimes YOU or YOUR ancestors may or may not have taken part in. As I said, no amount of money can fix that anyway, so the "take the money and shut the fuck up" argument is more than just stupid, its racist, IMO. Attitudes like this that do much more to stand in the way of racial reconcilliation than reparation payments EVER would. So all of these "free handout" and "what good would it do" arguments are also null and void.
Next, and lastly (I think), is the "logistical nightmare" argument. Would it be hard to make certain determinations? Perhaps. Impossible? No. The fact that a certain job is difficult doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done! Where would we be in this world if every necessary task that was determined to be difficult was thrown into the "oh well, too hard. Let's just ignore it and move on" pile? This might be the biggest cop-out argument yet. Completely invalid.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
We're all of mixed race and most of us can trace our roots back to someone who was a slave (or at least had some injustice done to them). Some just don't want to trace it to that. Let's just give everyone a tax break and call it a reparation.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Regaurdless of what your reasons of giving away alot of money for past actions, Connifer, the whole idea is not logical in any sense. I'm not talking about the logistical nightmare scenario, the take the money and quit bitching thing, or the "pay them back cause their 200 yr old ancestors deserve it" thing. I makes no sense.
No one that has agrees w/ reparations has answered the 1 question that still stands.
I'll ask again.
Disregaurding the Bullshit (imo) politically correct reasons for paying slave ancestors "lost wages", What good will come out of it?
Regaurdless of what your reasons of giving away alot of money for past actions, Connifer, the whole idea is not logical in any sense. I'm not talking about the logistical nightmare scenario, the take the money and quit bitching thing, or the "pay them back cause their 200 yr old ancestors deserve it" thing. I makes no sense.
No one that has agrees w/ reparations has answered the 1 question that still stands.
I'll ask again.
Disregaurding the Bullshit (imo) politically correct reasons for paying slave ancestors "lost wages", What good will come out of it?
First of all, lets be honest here, Its jut me. Alone.
Now, I HAVE addressed this. Read my post just before this one! Its all there. Answer me. What good would come of YOU recieving an inheritance from your dead ancestor? Its the same thing. It is really not about what good would come of it. Its just right!
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
First of all, lets be honest here, Its jut me. Alone.
Now, I HAVE addressed this. Read my post just before this one! Its all there. Answer me. What good would come of YOU recieving an inheritance from your dead ancestor? Its the same thing. It is really not about what good would come of it. Its just right!
Ok for arguements sake lets say we go through with reparations, then what about the Native Americans. Don't they deserve reparations just as much as blacks do. What about the Japanese and Japanese Americans that where placed in work camps during WWII? What about the Irish that came to America during the mid 1800's who where paid far less to do the same job as native born Americans. Where do the reparations end?
Slavery was a horrorable and sad time in our nation's history and what was done to blacks is unexcusable and unforgivable, but to pay out reparations now 100 plus years after the fact will accomplish nothing. The people who deserved the money are long dead, the people who should be made to pay for using slaves are long dead. It's too late for this course of action.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Comments
What are you talking about? I'm not asking for reparations and I'm not blaming the past for my present problems? and what does INHEIRITANCE have to do with anything? Wait... I know why you don't get it... it's because you are you, right?
We're talking about blacks, blaming Whites for their fucked up situation because of slavery that occurred in America a couple of Centuries ago and wanting financial restitution for it. I'm sick of this blaming everyone else and would rather just pay out and say, "Here's your fucking money (that you're asking for). Now, we're even. Don't come crying back and blaming everyone else because you are so fucked up".
Hail, Hail!!!
The way you word it... no. But heres the thing. No one would be giving their annual salary. And in this case, it doesn't really matter how lazy the recipients might or might not be. We're basically talking about what amounts to an inheritance. If some rich old man dies and wills his fortune to a grandson, his living heir, it doesn't really matter whether the grandson smokes crack, solicits protitutes, and has never worked a day in his life. It was his grandfathers money, and he is entitled to it. That, to me, is really the crux of the matter.
BTW,its nice to see ya around here. missed ya
look, if you don't understand the concept of analogy, i havn't really the energy to explain it to you. As far as the rest, read my other posts in this thread. I'm not repeating them.
Tell you what... put me on your Ignore List and do not respond to my comments directly with references to tangent analogies that have nothing to do with the comments and/or statement being made. It'll make life easier for both of us.
Hail, Hail!!!
What good would come out of it?
Please, name 1 single positive thing that would happen after all these people would be payed alot of money for something their ancestors went through?
I think that the way the American justice system is w/ all the bullshit lawsuits today has allowed this retarded idea to pop into some civil rights groups head and honestly......I think there is a good possiblility reps will be payed in the future, only for the fact that politicians are so "scared" to offend anyone claiming "racist" or "hatecrime". I'll say it again, I think reparations are nothing more than a pathetic money grab. And if reps were granted, I couldn't really blame the ppl that cash the check, hey free money, why not. My beef would be w/ the organizers of the reparation mess and the 'leaders' that would grant this crap.
And if reps were to be payed, I think that the disbandment of the NAACP should follow, No more United Negro College Fund, or any other type of 'charity'(for lack of a better word right now) that is aimed primarily towards the black community. Reps payed, now no more bitching.
Well said.
But the question is still in my head and I cannot even bullshit myself for an answer.....What good will come out of it?
Should we reimburse all the displaced and eroded families of Africa too that this practice effected?
Why, even 200 years later, would I want to ACCEPT that money from the current families of those who enslaved MY family?!?!
Wouldn't you just rather tell them to stick that money up their fucking ass, and say "No thanks, keep your blood money, I'll make it in life on my own."
Just my 2 cents.
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
I'll bet many, if not most of the so-called "white" people in America can also trace their roots back to be a decendant of an African slave. That's why the reparations won't work.
It's a stupid idea anyway with no justification or logic.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Also a good point. You would have more crackers coming out of the woodwork declaring themselves as having African heritage than you could shake a stick at.
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
Like I said earlier a bureacratic nightmare......would be so much wasted money just trying to deal with all the people "making a case" for the money...
There are obviously the nightmares of determining eligibility, as birth records from the mid 1800's are spotty to begin with- and even worse for the slave population. I think this would actually make it an impossibility.
Also, its totally unfair to make people non slave owning bloodline tax payers pay when they did not benefit from it. Its also not fair to make a person born 120 years after slavery was over pay for the sins of their great great great grandfathers- its just ridiculous... what if the family ISNT wealthy? they get out of it, just because they arent rich now?
So should a house slaves family that only fetched tea get payed more or less than a guy that worked his ass off in the field? What about the slaves that had really really abusive owners- should their families get more? Some slave owners actually took very good care of their slaves- basically had better lives than the poor do now... should they get anything?
I like the speed limit example. As morally awful as slavery was, the fact is, it was not illegal. In fact, aspects of it were legal and legitimate enough to be addressed in the constitution--- and families that owned them can not be held accountable for taking part in something that was totally legal at the time that it was done.
Just make it easy so it'll go the fuck away. Why make it so goddamn complicated?
Add up all the black people that are born in America as of today at noon... don't count mother fucking fetuses or anyone who has got spit out the pussy after that.
If you're white and say you are in the bloodline that dates back to 1782 when your slutty great, great, great grandmother got tired of shriveled up caucasian needle dick and wanted to get split like a log by the slave, Big Dick Black... FUCK YOU... you are White you honky mother fucker, you ain't getting goddamn shit. Now, shut the fuck up and sit your sorry, needle dick, cracker ass down!
Take a bunch of fucking money and divide it up in equal portions. This means the poorest black kid in the worst part of Detriot to Oprah and Michael Jordan and Colin Powell.
Give each one check and say, "This is it. No more blaming the Whitey because you are addicted to crack and rob the Korean grocer".
Let Oprah and Michael Jordan and Colin Powell figure out what to do with their share... give it to the poorest black kid in the worst part of Detriot or endorse and drop it in their passbook account.
...
Fuckin' aye.
Hail, Hail!!!
I think the best thing we can do is teach the truth about the past, and work toward never repeating it, and work toward being tolerant of our differences, respectful of our cultures, and understand that we are all in this together, and there just isn't any place in our society for bigotry, racism, and other hateful intolerance of others if we ever want to start moving forward again as a society. We can't grow anymore if we can't get over our petty differences.
We need to come together as a species to work toward our future, the planet won't sustain us for another species at the rate we are consuming and growing...what do we do? Destroy each other or come together?
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
yea, maybe..i answered with my heart first...not really thinking it all through. it's all just a damn shame, a real tragedy...but you're right in regards to native americans...how can we ever pay them back? so yea, i guess there is really no way to truly give back to the descendants of slaves, native americans, etc...except for there to be a true official apology for starters. i don't know what else can be done beyond that, and if there is a sensible/reasonable thing we can do...i wish we as a nation could at least give everyone better opportunities. i mean honestly, i am a first generation american, at least on my father's side..my mother's i don't think went too far back here either...so i guess in that sense, no 'guilt' on me....but i still think it's horrible. so yea.......i guess it is too little, too late for true and meaningful reparations.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Not gettin one damn cent from me, tell you that right now!!
Here is my take, however, on why NOT to do this:
1. The logistical nightmare. Tracing who deserves it, how much they deserve, etc. would be impossible. And you know damn well the media would find a few people who cheated the system to buy frivilous crap--while it would be less than 1% of the people doing it, most of white America would think it was almost all blacks doing it, setting race relations back.
2. More importantly, it does not fix anything. Should slaves have been compensated? Yes. Would that compensation have turned into a better situation for blacks in America today? Hard to say. Would the money do so today? No. A one time payment would have white America saying--"there NOW we're even, so now your treatment in the past offically has nothing to do with your current situation." This would be bullshit. Then the people would take their money (which could not be much without bleeding the country dry) and save it, spend it, invest it, whatever. Would I like to get a one-time payment? sure. Would it make my overall situation better? No. It would not help them. It would be a gesture. An expensive gesture that would be about guilt and would ultimately set race relations back.
The way I see it, if you cannot at least partly blame whites for the low socio-economic status of blacks in the US today, you need a reality check. Slavery, emancipation (no land, no money, sharecropping, still illegal to teach blacks to read), discrimination in jobs, etc. Blacks became legally equal to whites in 1964 (Civil Rights Act). If you expect them to have "caught" whites socially/economically in a generation and a half, you had high expectations.
So why are blacks socio-economically behind whites?
A) The history of their treatment by whites has left them in a position in which they are usually born at an inherent disadvantage.
I think it pretty much has to be A or B. Most white Americans would never say that it is A, so they must think it is B. I think it's A. (I am sure some will find a "C" that blames present-day white liberals somehow, therby avoiding the racsim of "B" and the admission of "A").
The bottom line is that a few bucks worth of "apology" money is not going to solve anything. It is not worth the money or the effort. The effort, should we wish to address the problem of "A" above, needs to come, I suppose, from a variety of things that I frankly do not have the answer (though I suspect K-12 education would play a big role).
Hey, Uncle Leo...
Wouldn't you pay whatever it takes to get fucking Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton the shut the fuck up already about the slavery thing?
"Here mother fuckers... here's your weak reparations money!!! Now, shut the fuck up about the slavery thing already!!!"
That could be printed across the goddamn checks.
Hail, Hail!!!
But having it handed to you is so much easier. Why do for yourself what you can guilt others into doing for you>?
www.myspace.com/jensvad
I think its valid.. we took away the people of today's history - their ability to be educated and indoctrinated into the world. They had a handicap whether you like to acknowledge it or not. Every generation in my family has done better than the one before, which is a direct result of their sharing of what they learned and passing it down.
However, I do recognize the difficulty in its having the desired effect, and selling it as worth while to the masses that feel they had nothing to do with it. and the masses that will fight to the death any idea that will cost them.
I don't see it ever happening, but it is due.
What right does anyone now entitle them to collect for the suffering of people hundreds of years before they were around?
I'm sure everyone in the world would be able to trace some family blood line to some sort of wrong doing, injustice and similiar, so why should such a thing be taken serious?
This issue in my opinion, is nothing more than people taking a problem like racism (which is very apparent in the US) and using it to get money as if people are owed something. The people who commited the crimes and practiced slavery are all dead, as are the ones who were enslaved, trying to profit in some manner off that is nothing more than selfish intent and blaming others for your own current situations. There are many problems that slavery caused in our nation, yet many steps have been taken to rectify them (not all so successful). Asking for handouts instead is just out of line and using the past as an excuse for the current issues we all face.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
In other words, all repartions should be paid to decendants of slaves by the decendants of the slave owners.
First of all, YOU wouldn't really be paying for anything! Its not like the money would be deducted from your paycheck, or bank account or anything like that. The government would be paying for it. Perhaps, yes it would come out of tax dollars, but, so what? Your tax dollars are already paying for a fucked up, unjustified war based on half truths and outright lies. Your paying for George W.'s eight year vacation in Maine. You're being taxed regardless, and the government is already spending that money for shit you may not support or used to fix problems you are totally not responsible for! You're already being taxed. That is never going to stop, and you have no say where your tax dollars are spent. It isn't your money anymore! It belongs to the government. So, the "they're not getting a single cent from me" argument is really invalid.
Next, reparations, as far as I see it, are not about a payoff to rectify past injustices, "Make-up for" the horrors and brutality that was the African slave trade, or "fix" all of the social and economic inequalities that are a direct result of slavery. NO amount of money could accomplish this. No dollar amount. It isn't about that. To, me, its about hundreds of years of completely uncompensated labor by hundreds of thousands of individuals kidnapped and brought here against their will. Its backpay. Those who earned it are obviously, unable to collect so their money goes to their living heirs. Period. Just like all of you would expect. Its kind of like an estate. And This CAN be mathematically computed. Numbers can be crunched. It isn't about a "payoff" for crimes YOU or YOUR ancestors may or may not have taken part in. As I said, no amount of money can fix that anyway, so the "take the money and shut the fuck up" argument is more than just stupid, its racist, IMO. Attitudes like this that do much more to stand in the way of racial reconcilliation than reparation payments EVER would. So all of these "free handout" and "what good would it do" arguments are also null and void.
Next, and lastly (I think), is the "logistical nightmare" argument. Would it be hard to make certain determinations? Perhaps. Impossible? No. The fact that a certain job is difficult doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done! Where would we be in this world if every necessary task that was determined to be difficult was thrown into the "oh well, too hard. Let's just ignore it and move on" pile? This might be the biggest cop-out argument yet. Completely invalid.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
No one that has agrees w/ reparations has answered the 1 question that still stands.
I'll ask again.
Disregaurding the Bullshit (imo) politically correct reasons for paying slave ancestors "lost wages", What good will come out of it?
First of all, lets be honest here, Its jut me. Alone.
Now, I HAVE addressed this. Read my post just before this one! Its all there. Answer me. What good would come of YOU recieving an inheritance from your dead ancestor? Its the same thing. It is really not about what good would come of it. Its just right!
Ok for arguements sake lets say we go through with reparations, then what about the Native Americans. Don't they deserve reparations just as much as blacks do. What about the Japanese and Japanese Americans that where placed in work camps during WWII? What about the Irish that came to America during the mid 1800's who where paid far less to do the same job as native born Americans. Where do the reparations end?
Slavery was a horrorable and sad time in our nation's history and what was done to blacks is unexcusable and unforgivable, but to pay out reparations now 100 plus years after the fact will accomplish nothing. The people who deserved the money are long dead, the people who should be made to pay for using slaves are long dead. It's too late for this course of action.