women don't make the news cos they're generally loving peacekeeping people.
My wife is like that three weeks out of every month.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Wow, I’m almost sorry I started this thread… but thanks Jeanie for trying to keep it on topic throughout. I would have preferred we stuck to what is obviously in our faces going on around the world… rather than dig up useless articles telling us this is not, in fact, happening :rolleyes: . And like Jeanie said, I too will give Ahnimus the same respect he gives my posts… once he gives a reasoned response to them, well I’ll continue to do the same. And Lucy puts forward some good points here:
‘I'm gogin to postulate that this is because of sex segregation at high school level. Politicians often come from private schools, and they tend not to be co-ed. So boys do not learn to interact with girls in an intelectual setting in those formative years. The female associate schools are primarily seen as sources of sexual conquest and those attitudes carry over into the business world......................... ...
OR.
Women are too smart to be politicians !!!!!’
I’m not sure about the latter… I think men are just more inclined to aim towards power roles. Why, for example are you more likely to hear a boy say he wants to be president when he grows up rather than a nurse? I dunno, even Hillary Clinton can’t get it right… feminists hate her cos she stood by her man. Housewives hate her cos she has ambition… and men just ain’t gonna vote for a woman.
I just think there’s too much focus today on all the bad stuff. This all started from me watching the news and realised it’s all ‘mens stuff’ (I’m sure someone will give me shit for saying that but I don’t care). So I guess the feminine side of EACH of us isn’t really being encouraged to come out.. I think also that girls aren’t given the same ambition at school, e.g. if a girl says ‘I want to be president’ is the teacher or parent more likely to say ‘oh that’s cute’ compared to a boy saying the same thing… the parents may start upping the college fund. It wasn’t so long ago when I was in national school… and whilst the girls did sewing/knitting, the boys did arts and crafts and got to make cool stuff. In secondary school, while the girls did home economics, the boys did woodwork/metalwork. That has changed now I believe BUT I’m only 26… so how long is it gonna take for these changes and acceptances to make affect? Also, as much as girls should be encouraged to do traditionally masculine stuff... fellas should be encouraged to find their feminine side too.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Yes I agree that is a huge factor cate. Music does unite us. But a PJ concert, well that's something else. Complete strangers talk to each other, smile together, laugh, enjoy the music, share looks and seemingly feelings. I've only ever seen that happen with one other band that way and that's JB3. Same deal. A massive love in.
jeez jeanie if you tell me pearl jam music has special magical powers im gonna have to slap you.
michael franti gigs have an excellent vibe as well.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Wow, I’m almost sorry I started this thread… but thanks Jeanie for trying to keep it on topic throughout. I would have preferred we stuck to what is obviously in our faces going on around the world… rather than dig up useless articles telling us this is not, in fact, happening :rolleyes: . And like Jeanie said, I too will give Ahnimus the same respect he gives my posts… once he gives a reasoned response to them, well I’ll continue to do the same. And Lucy puts forward some good points here:
‘I'm gogin to postulate that this is because of sex segregation at high school level. Politicians often come from private schools, and they tend not to be co-ed. So boys do not learn to interact with girls in an intelectual setting in those formative years. The female associate schools are primarily seen as sources of sexual conquest and those attitudes carry over into the business world......................... ...
OR.
Women are too smart to be politicians !!!!!’
I’m not sure about the latter… I think men are just more inclined to aim towards power roles. Why, for example are you more likely to hear a boy say he wants to be president when he grows up rather than a nurse? I dunno, even Hillary Clinton can’t get it right… feminists hate her cos she stood by her man. Housewives hate her cos she has ambition… and men just ain’t gonna vote for a woman.
I just think there’s too much focus today on all the bad stuff. This all started from me watching the news and realised it’s all ‘mens stuff’ (I’m sure someone will give me shit for saying that but I don’t care). So I guess the feminine side of EACH of us isn’t really being encouraged to come out.. I think also that girls aren’t given the same ambition at school, e.g. if a girl says ‘I want to be president’ is the teacher or parent more likely to say ‘oh that’s cute’ compared to a boy saying the same thing… the parents may start upping the college fund. It wasn’t so long ago when I was in national school… and whilst the girls did sewing/knitting, the boys did arts and crafts and got to make cool stuff. In secondary school, while the girls did home economics, the boys did woodwork/metalwork. That has changed now I believe BUT I’m only 26… so how long is it gonna take for these changes and acceptances to make affect? Also, as much as girls should be encouraged to do traditionally masculine stuff... fellas should be encouraged to find their feminine side too.
Nice post Hels, and sorry if it got a little sidetracked, I was really hanging for some of the guys to talk about how they percieve the world in terms of men being so powerful. Lucy was great, as usual, and I think he's raised some valid points. I guess what I'd like to know is how can we even attempt to get more equality in leadership, when we can't even get people to acknowledge that the discrepancy exists, and of course there are those that will tell us that we are delusional for thinking that one exists in the first place. :rolleyes:
I'd prefer that we could come up with solutions together, but seemingly that is too big an ask. Although, I have been heartened by the responses of a lot of the guys that did post (and represented the majority up till page 9 )
I guess the thing is I don't want to vote for a women, simply because she is, but the problem does appear to be, as lucy and I were discussing, well here at least, that it's extremely difficult for women, to negotiate the minefield of politics to come out in a position that we could vote for them. And perhaps if politics remains the way that it has, that is a majority rich boys club that seemingly is all bluff and bluster and rhetoric, then maybe women would be better served by attempting to position themselves in key organizations that lobby government for change. I certainly think that politicians as they exist today on the planet are sorely lacking. I'd like to see more of a cross section of the community represented. And in better ratios too. Anyway, just my silly old girlie thoughts.
jeez jeanie if you tell me pearl jam music has special magical powers im gonna have to slap you.
michael franti gigs have an excellent vibe as well.
Well! They .....!!!
Actually, I could see that with franti gigs.
Wish we could find a way to harness that positive energy, whatever those hormones are at play, and "love bomb" the parliaments of the world with it!!
**but of course that's highly unlikely when we still find ourselves endlessly editing our posts to submit with the required smilie limit! If we can't change that then what the hell hope have we got with world politics?**
Wish we could find a way to harness that positive energy, whatever those hormones are at play, and "love bomb" the parliaments of the world with it!!
**but of course that's highly unlikely when we still find ourselves endlessly editing our posts to submit with the required smilie limit! If we can't change that then what the hell hope have we got with world politics?**
well you know my thoughts about the smilie limit.
but i have to wonder if women en masse decide it's time to take the bull by the horns and change the world. who's gonna raise the children? the men? or will it be expected that we will continue to do that as well and then be made to feel grateful for the privilege?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
but i have to wonder if women en masse decide it's time to take the bull by the horns and change the world. who's gonna raise the children? the men? or will it be expected that we will continue to do that as well and then be made to feel grateful for the privilege?
I don't know that en masse is such a good idea. I think change needs to be strong and steady for it to be accepted. I have to say that I've seen more and more examples of men actually contributing to the caring of children and general housework, and I even know of a few families where the main caregiver and home manager is the father. Not to mention the increase of single dads. I think it will be one of the backlashes that deserting fathers will have to accept. That more and more of their sons are seeing first hand growing up, just how tough single motherhood is and they are more than willing and able to contribute equally to the domestic arrangements, leaving their partners with more opportunity to succeed in business and politics. That would be a bit of fun don't you think? Obviously it's not a huge statistic yet, but I do believe that it will come.
I don't know that en masse is such a good idea. I think change needs to be strong and steady for it to be accepted. I have to say that I've seen more and more examples of men actually contributing to the caring of children and general housework, and I even know of a few families where the main caregiver and home manager is the father. Not to mention the increase of single dads. I think it will be one of the backlashes that deserting fathers will have to accept. That more and more of their sons are seeing first hand growing up, just how tough single motherhood is and they are more than willing and able to contribute equally to the domestic arrangements, leaving their partners with more opportunity to succeed in business and politics. That would be a bit of fun don't you think? Obviously it's not a huge statistic yet, but I do believe that it will come.
just as a personal aside. my mothers first response to a proposed change in my living arrangements was met with a very concerned, 'but what about the children?' i assured her that they would be with their father. perish the thought that my children's father be responsible for the raising of HIS OWN children after i'd been doing it for the past 20 years. the majority of that time as a single parent.
i have the utmost respect any man who takes over the primary caregiving of his children. it's not an easy job and the more men who are exposed to the daily rituals of child rearing, the better off we'll all be.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
just as a personal aside. my mothers first response to a proposed change in my living arrangements was met with a very concerned, 'but what about the children?' i assured her that they would be with their father. perish the thought that my children's father be responsible for the raising of HIS OWN children after i'd been doing it for the past 20 years. the majority of that time as a single parent.
i have the utmost respect any man who takes over the primary caregiving of his children. it's not an easy job and the more men who are exposed to the daily rituals of child rearing, the better off we'll all be.
Yes, I can see that the generations before ours held very traditional ideas, just as the generation after us seems to wonder what we're on about! :rolleyes:
I'm often met with strange looks and pointed comments for not being married and knocked up by now. And when I dare to mention that maybe kids and me is not such a good idea, well you'd think I'd admitted to boiling the little buggers in hot oil and eating them for dinner! Or then of course there's the condescending crap I get. Particularly from my doofus brother who has been sounding a bit like Bill Heffernan to my Julia Gillard of late!! :mad:
Anyhoo, I agree cate. I'd like to learn stuff from men and I'd like them to learn stuff from us. I don't want to emasculate them and I don't want them to feminize me. I'd just like to see a whole lot more team work. A lot more working together from the different gender perspectives to create a better place for all of us and our kids. (for those of us that have them of course!)
Anyhoo, I agree cate. I'd like to learn stuff from men and I'd like them to learn stuff from us. I don't want to emasculate them and I don't want them to feminize me. I'd just like to see a whole lot more team work. A lot more working together from the different gender perspectives to create a better place for all of us and our kids. (for those of us that have them of course!)
hmm well i watch my son with great interest. not the least being he's the only boy i have. he has a smart mouth on him, which he gets from me. but unlike me he has nothing to back it up. and in that respect he's like his da. i have to teach him a little bit of humility or else he will get his skinny arse kicked one day by some kid who has the brawn to back up what he lacks in the smartmouth department. so here's a boy who is surrounded by strong females and yet has inherited his mostly absent da's constitution(or lack thereof) for confrontation.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
hmm well i watch my son with great interest. not the least being he's the only boy i have. he has a smart mouth on him, which he gets from me. but unlike me he has nothing to back it up. and in that respect he's like his da. i have to teach him a little bit of humility or else he will get his skinny arse kicked one day by some kid who has the brawn to back up what he lacks in the smartmouth department. so here's a boy who is surrounded by strong females and yet has inherited his mostly absent da's constitution(or lack thereof) for confrontation.
Oh you don't have to convince me about the influence of absent fathers cate. My brother is morphing into my dad before my very eyes. And I'm completely mystified by it because dad was barely around in his early years, and there was a period of about 8 years from when my brother was 9 to when he was 17 or so that they didn't see each other once. I know that everyone around here is all about nurture over nature, but I still believe that some level of a person's characteristics comes from nature. You'd only have to look at my brother and my dad and understand their story to agree.
He'll do ok your boy. I reckon anyway. He's got good role models and people who love him around him. And like the rest of us he'll learn the rest of it from life as it comes up!
Suppose it'd be too much to hope that they would develop a "love bomb" that actually made people feel good and happy just long enough for them to all take a long hard look in the mirror and realize the futility of war! And maybe sort out a few other things while they were at it?
Comments
My wife is like that three weeks out of every month.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
‘I'm gogin to postulate that this is because of sex segregation at high school level. Politicians often come from private schools, and they tend not to be co-ed. So boys do not learn to interact with girls in an intelectual setting in those formative years. The female associate schools are primarily seen as sources of sexual conquest and those attitudes carry over into the business world......................... ...
OR.
Women are too smart to be politicians !!!!!’
I’m not sure about the latter… I think men are just more inclined to aim towards power roles. Why, for example are you more likely to hear a boy say he wants to be president when he grows up rather than a nurse? I dunno, even Hillary Clinton can’t get it right… feminists hate her cos she stood by her man. Housewives hate her cos she has ambition… and men just ain’t gonna vote for a woman.
I just think there’s too much focus today on all the bad stuff. This all started from me watching the news and realised it’s all ‘mens stuff’ (I’m sure someone will give me shit for saying that but I don’t care). So I guess the feminine side of EACH of us isn’t really being encouraged to come out.. I think also that girls aren’t given the same ambition at school, e.g. if a girl says ‘I want to be president’ is the teacher or parent more likely to say ‘oh that’s cute’ compared to a boy saying the same thing… the parents may start upping the college fund. It wasn’t so long ago when I was in national school… and whilst the girls did sewing/knitting, the boys did arts and crafts and got to make cool stuff. In secondary school, while the girls did home economics, the boys did woodwork/metalwork. That has changed now I believe BUT I’m only 26… so how long is it gonna take for these changes and acceptances to make affect? Also, as much as girls should be encouraged to do traditionally masculine stuff... fellas should be encouraged to find their feminine side too.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
jeez jeanie if you tell me pearl jam music has special magical powers im gonna have to slap you.
michael franti gigs have an excellent vibe as well.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Nice post Hels, and sorry if it got a little sidetracked, I was really hanging for some of the guys to talk about how they percieve the world in terms of men being so powerful. Lucy was great, as usual, and I think he's raised some valid points. I guess what I'd like to know is how can we even attempt to get more equality in leadership, when we can't even get people to acknowledge that the discrepancy exists, and of course there are those that will tell us that we are delusional for thinking that one exists in the first place. :rolleyes:
I'd prefer that we could come up with solutions together, but seemingly that is too big an ask. Although, I have been heartened by the responses of a lot of the guys that did post (and represented the majority up till page 9
I guess the thing is I don't want to vote for a women, simply because she is, but the problem does appear to be, as lucy and I were discussing, well here at least, that it's extremely difficult for women, to negotiate the minefield of politics to come out in a position that we could vote for them. And perhaps if politics remains the way that it has, that is a majority rich boys club that seemingly is all bluff and bluster and rhetoric, then maybe women would be better served by attempting to position themselves in key organizations that lobby government for change. I certainly think that politicians as they exist today on the planet are sorely lacking. I'd like to see more of a cross section of the community represented. And in better ratios too. Anyway, just my silly old girlie thoughts.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Well! They .....!!!
Actually, I could see that with franti gigs.
Wish we could find a way to harness that positive energy, whatever those hormones are at play, and "love bomb" the parliaments of the world with it!!
**but of course that's highly unlikely when we still find ourselves endlessly editing our posts to submit with the required smilie limit! If we can't change that then what the hell hope have we got with world politics?**
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
well you know my thoughts about the smilie limit.
but i have to wonder if women en masse decide it's time to take the bull by the horns and change the world. who's gonna raise the children? the men? or will it be expected that we will continue to do that as well and then be made to feel grateful for the privilege?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I don't know that en masse is such a good idea. I think change needs to be strong and steady for it to be accepted. I have to say that I've seen more and more examples of men actually contributing to the caring of children and general housework, and I even know of a few families where the main caregiver and home manager is the father. Not to mention the increase of single dads. I think it will be one of the backlashes that deserting fathers will have to accept. That more and more of their sons are seeing first hand growing up, just how tough single motherhood is and they are more than willing and able to contribute equally to the domestic arrangements, leaving their partners with more opportunity to succeed in business and politics. That would be a bit of fun don't you think? Obviously it's not a huge statistic yet, but I do believe that it will come.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
just as a personal aside. my mothers first response to a proposed change in my living arrangements was met with a very concerned, 'but what about the children?' i assured her that they would be with their father. perish the thought that my children's father be responsible for the raising of HIS OWN children after i'd been doing it for the past 20 years. the majority of that time as a single parent.
i have the utmost respect any man who takes over the primary caregiving of his children. it's not an easy job and the more men who are exposed to the daily rituals of child rearing, the better off we'll all be.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yes, I can see that the generations before ours held very traditional ideas, just as the generation after us seems to wonder what we're on about! :rolleyes:
I'm often met with strange looks and pointed comments for not being married and knocked up by now. And when I dare to mention that maybe kids and me is not such a good idea, well you'd think I'd admitted to boiling the little buggers in hot oil and eating them for dinner! Or then of course there's the condescending crap I get. Particularly from my doofus brother who has been sounding a bit like Bill Heffernan to my Julia Gillard of late!! :mad:
Anyhoo, I agree cate. I'd like to learn stuff from men and I'd like them to learn stuff from us. I don't want to emasculate them and I don't want them to feminize me. I'd just like to see a whole lot more team work. A lot more working together from the different gender perspectives to create a better place for all of us and our kids. (for those of us that have them of course!)
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
hmm well i watch my son with great interest. not the least being he's the only boy i have. he has a smart mouth on him, which he gets from me. but unlike me he has nothing to back it up. and in that respect he's like his da. i have to teach him a little bit of humility or else he will get his skinny arse kicked one day by some kid who has the brawn to back up what he lacks in the smartmouth department. so here's a boy who is surrounded by strong females and yet has inherited his mostly absent da's constitution(or lack thereof) for confrontation.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Oh you don't have to convince me about the influence of absent fathers cate. My brother is morphing into my dad before my very eyes. And I'm completely mystified by it because dad was barely around in his early years, and there was a period of about 8 years from when my brother was 9 to when he was 17 or so that they didn't see each other once. I know that everyone around here is all about nurture over nature, but I still believe that some level of a person's characteristics comes from nature. You'd only have to look at my brother and my dad and understand their story to agree.
He'll do ok your boy. I reckon anyway. He's got good role models and people who love him around him. And like the rest of us he'll learn the rest of it from life as it comes up!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Love bomb, eh?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4174519.stm
naděje umírá poslední
Well I feel so much better now!! NOT!! :rolleyes:
Who even thinks of this stuff anyway??? :eek:
Suppose it'd be too much to hope that they would develop a "love bomb" that actually made people feel good and happy just long enough for them to all take a long hard look in the mirror and realize the futility of war! And maybe sort out a few other things while they were at it?
People never cease to amaze me! :rolleyes:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Exactly the same as 98% of all other males on the planet:D:D
Perhaps. Depends on several other contributing factors and circumstances .
Hmmm... I tend to think it's more about HOW one is asked or told. But it could be different for every individual.
Some of the most intelligent and wise human beings I have ever known, have been females.