but, in terms of behavior, those are medical terms, of psychology. in this debate of nature and nuture, or testosterone and behavior: psychology is a low-roller. i mean, unless you want to get into a particular person's head, or something.
So, is it just a bunch of women spouting off first person perspective?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Of the 9 pages and 122 posts of this thread so far:
14 of the posters are Men
7 of the posters are Women.
Helen has the highest number of posts at 31. Would we all accept that is reasonable given that she is the thread starter and therefore will post more in this circumstance?
Ahnimus has the next highest number of posts at 22
I have the next highest at 15.
I haven't bothered doing a word count to see who has had the most to say, because I'm fairly certain just by looking we would know who that was.
So I'm thinking that it would be reasonable to say that this thread should not be considered as is here:
Did you take into account the posts that were not relating to the topic?
I also don't know who are men and who are women, luceylespain is a case in point. Cornnifer also looks like a female name to me. So as far as I know dunkman could be a woman.
Regardless, my statement was to the effect that any rational inquiry or statistical analysis or debate is undermined by the violent emotions of women justifying their perception of their own experiences.
Like when I try to debate the causes of the behavior called rape and my attempts are undermined by rape victims becoming overly defensive about the topic.
This kind of conversation is not debate, it's social pity, it's about crying and whining, not about debating anything.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Did you take into account the posts that were not relating to the topic?
I also don't know who are men and who are women, luceylespain is a case in point. Cornnifer also looks like a female name to me. So as far as I know dunkman could be a woman.
Regardless, my statement was to the effect that any rational inquiry or statistical analysis or debate is undermined by the violent emotions of women justifying their perception of their own experiences.
Like when I try to debate the causes of the behavior called rape and my attempts are undermined by rape victims becoming overly defensive about the topic.
This kind of conversation is not debate, it's social pity, it's about crying and whining, not about debating anything.
Oh ahnimus, oh great one, oh mighty mind, pity me my useless ignorant femaleness and help me to see things as you do!!!!
I just can't seem to see this thread and so many others, any other way than just you on your soapbox again. I know, I know, I'm so aggressive and ignorant and arrogant.
I apologize for being me and seeing things the way I do. It must be that I'm deranged as you say.
It's not about asking, it's about being told. Well that's how silly, little me sees it anyhow!
But then what would I know? Me being a girl and all! :rolleyes:
"That's jus female thinkin' an il gitcha inna trouble everytime!"
When did we start talking about sexual assaults? We are talking about aggressiveness in general. Certainly it would be more difficult for a woman to rape a man, just as it would be more difficult for a 5' tall woman to beat a 6' tall man to a pulp with her bare hands. Looking at those statistics alone will only give you a bias view of the aggressiveness of men and women in general.
The best way to look at it is total reported cases:
The 5-year rate of violence was similar for women and men (8% and 7%, respectively)(Figure 2.1). Overall, this amounts to approximately 690,000 women and 549,000 men who had a current or former partner and reported experiencing at least one incident of violence.
Of those who had a current partner in the 5-year period preceding the survey interview, 4% reported some type of spousal violence. Women (4%) and men (4%) were equally likely to report violence by a current partner. In previous relationships, women (28%) were more likely than men (22%) to report experiencing violence.
Again, if you look only at sexual assault then you are going to see a major bias. Like if I asked "What's the ration between male and female pregnancies" I could say "Well 100% of women get pregnant and 0% of men do, so that means women are less responsible with their bodies." it would be an absurd way of determining the statistical probability of male and female "responsibility with their bodies". Likewise, looking at sexual assault, which can only be perpretrated by men, gives you a drastically skewed view of "statistical aggressiveness between men and women".
There are major amounts of sexual assaults against women, which tells me that there is a lot of sexual aggressiveness on the part of men. Nothing can change that fact. It is a huge issue for women and cannot be minimized.
Also, these are important considerations from your link:
"While this survey indicates equal proportions of women and men report spousal violence, it also indicates that women are abused more severely than men. For example, women are more likely to be subjected to severe forms of violence (e.g. beaten, choked, sexually assaulted), are three times more likely to suffer injury, five times as likely to seek medical attention, and five times more likely to fear for their lives as a result of the violence. In other words, the severity and the impact of spousal violence on women and men have different outcomes and consequences."
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
There are major amounts of sexual assaults against women, which tells me that there is a lot of sexual aggressiveness on the part of men. Nothing can change that fact. It is a huge issue for women and cannot be minimized.
Also, these are important considerations from your link:
"While this survey indicates equal proportions of women and men report spousal violence, it also indicates that women are abused more severely than men. For example, women are more likely to be subjected to severe forms of violence (e.g. beaten, choked, sexually assaulted), are three times more likely to suffer injury, five times as likely to seek medical attention, and five times more likely to fear for their lives as a result of the violence. In other words, the severity and the impact of spousal violence on women and men have different outcomes and consequences."
I won't discount those facts, but I was focused on intent to harm, rather than the severity of harm. Again, we can say that women are more concerned about their looks because they put make-up and stuff on, but it's just as much men that care about women's looks. This is similar because men putting on make-up is rarely attractive to a woman, so they would typically not. Likewise, it's unlikely that a woman will be capable of spontaneously bare-fist bashing their husbands into the hospital, due to anatomical difference. So the intent is not represented well by physical circumstances, but rather by the overall number of cases.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
At various times in my life I have been hit by girlfriends during arguments. They hit me as hard as they could. They did not hurt me, but they tried to. They did not feel remorseful afterewards, nor did they think they should. They ceratinly had intent to harm , they were just not strong enough.
Without defending violence at all, I think it has to be admitted that it is easier for men to perpetrate violence against women than vice versa.
Women tend to use what they are good at, which is mind game stuff, men use what they are good at, which is physical force.
Neither is particularly nice , nor helpful.
I won't discount those facts, but I was focused on intent to harm, rather than the severity of harm. Again, we can say that women are more concerned about their looks because they put make-up and stuff on, but it's just as much men that care about women's looks. This is similar because men putting on make-up is rarely attractive to a woman, so they would typically not. Likewise, it's unlikely that a woman will be capable of spontaneously bare-fist bashing their husbands into the hospital, due to anatomical difference. So the intent is not represented well by physical circumstances, but rather by the overall number of cases.
There are big differences between men and women that result in big differences between males dealing with assault from women and women dealing with it from men.
I am an "aggressive/assertive" female. I've always been much more aggressive than most women I know. I find the majority of women I've known have been conditioned to be coy and more manipulative in meeting their needs than assertive. One night I was at a bar with a bunch of females. A guy walked in that we all knew. We all saw him. As he was walking towards us, each of the 3 girls I was with started pretending to not see the guy! They were "playing" hard to get! I thought "forget this" and just walked right up to the guy and started talking to him, and he and I hung out. I get surprised at the things women do that are so not assertive. One of the girls is a really dominant type, too, and she liked this guy, and her first response was to play a role rather than assert her true view. I've found that to be fairly normal. And I'm fully aware there is a distinct fringe of assertive women, too.
Men are not trained to be unassertive like women are, for the most part.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
There are big differences between men and women that result in big differences between males dealing with assault from women and women dealing with it from men.
I am an "aggressive/assertive" female. I've always been much more aggressive than most women I know. I find the majority of women I've known have been conditioned to be coy and more manipulative in meeting their needs than assertive. One night I was at a bar with a bunch of females. A guy walked in that we all knew. We all saw him. As he was walking towards us, each of the 3 girls I was with started pretending to not see the guy! They were "playing" hard to get! I thought "forget this" and just walked right up to the guy and started talking to him, and he and I hung out. I get surprised at the things women do that are so not assertive. One of the girls is a really dominant type, too, and she liked this guy, and her first response was to play a role rather than assert her true view. I've found that to be fairly normal. And I'm fully aware there is a distinct fringe of assertive women, too.
Men are not trained to be unassertive like women are, for the most part.
I like to have sex on the first date. What does that make me?
I like to have sex on the first date. What does that make me?
It depends on how you go about it. There's nothing wrong with knowing what you want and being assertive. The questionable variables come in past that point, in how you go about it.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
There are big differences between men and women that result in big differences between males dealing with assault from women and women dealing with it from men.
I am an "aggressive/assertive" female. I've always been much more aggressive than most women I know. I find the majority of women I've known have been conditioned to be coy and more manipulative in meeting their needs than assertive. One night I was at a bar with a bunch of females. A guy walked in that we all knew. We all saw him. As he was walking towards us, each of the 3 girls I was with started pretending to not see the guy! They were "playing" hard to get! I thought "forget this" and just walked right up to the guy and started talking to him, and he and I hung out. I get surprised at the things women do that are so not assertive. One of the girls is a really dominant type, too, and she liked this guy, and her first response was to play a role rather than assert her true view. I've found that to be fairly normal. And I'm fully aware there is a distinct fringe of assertive women, too.
Men are not trained to be unassertive like women are, for the most part.
Ah yes, but who are they trained by ?? UI think you will find they have been trained by other frmales, not males.
When younger I recall being abused for greeting a gruop of females by saying "Hello ladies". They resented teh term "ladies", cos they felt it oppressed tehm wiht "ladies don't do this, ladies don't do that". I, of cousrese, was completely bewildered by this. I was just trying to be polite. I never oppress anybody, being far too keen to defend my own freedoms for that. It eventually occurred to me that it was their mothers and other older females doing the oppressing. Similarly with your scenario, it won't often be males that have conditioned the coy behaviour. It is also an expression of immatuity, in line wiht my idea that girls take a lot longer to mature than boys, they are just quieter about it. Boys are loud, so are seen to be immature, girls are quiet and coy so seen to be mature, but really most don't develop assertive abilities until about age 35.
If you disagre, ask youself at what age do women tend to chuck their useless husbands out and get a career. About 35 !!
It depends on how you go about it. There's nothing wrong with knowing what you want and being assertive. The questionable variables come in past that point, in how you go about it.
I'm just being silly. You know me.
I usually score, though.
I must be doing something...in the way I go about it.
Men here can learn the secret by PM'ing me, and sending $99 through paypal to my account.
At various times in my life I have been hit by girlfriends during arguments. They hit me as hard as they could. They did not hurt me, but they tried to. They did not feel remorseful afterewards, nor did they think they should. They ceratinly had intent to harm , they were just not strong enough.
Without defending violence at all, I think it has to be admitted that it is easier for men to perpetrate violence against women than vice versa.
Women tend to use what they are good at, which is mind game stuff, men use what they are good at, which is physical force.
Neither is particularly nice , nor helpful.
Well I agree lucy, that mind games or physical force are not particularly nice or helpful. I do know that I've never hit anyone that hasn't hit me first. And it's unfortunate that I've had to resort to retaliation but sometimes, when your life's in danger that's exactly what you have to do. Along with running, hiding, curling into the fetal position and covering your head to hopefully lessen the trauma. There's no point being a pacifist if you're being given the hiding of your life and you want to live. And I still don't see what happened to me as particularly bad, given what I've heard has happened to others.
So I guess that's where I could also see myself being in their shoes, just as I can see myself in the abusers shoes. I understand to a degree how this stuff happens. But it doesn't make it right as you yourself said. But I can see the mindset that gets abused women plotting the demise of their abuser. I've done it myself. Plotted that is. Anyway, this stuff is way off thread as far as I can see and we've done it all before here and more and I know nothing about it as the great and might minds will tell you. :rolleyes:
What I'd like to know is when do you think we will have a female Prime Minister here in Australia?
Ah yes, but who are they trained by ?? UI think you will find they have been trained by other frmales, not males.
When younger I recall being abused for greeting a gruop of females by saying "Hello ladies". They resented teh term "ladies", cos they felt it oppressed tehm wiht "ladies don't do this, ladies don't do that". I, of cousrese, was completely bewildered by this. I was just trying to be polite. I never oppress anybody, being far too keen to defend my own freedoms for that. It eventually occurred to me that it was their mothers and other older females doing the oppressing. Similarly with your scenario, it won't often be males that have conditioned the coy behaviour. It is also an expression of immatuity, in line wiht my idea that girls take a lot longer to mature than boys, they are just quieter about it. Boys are loud, so are seen to be immature, girls are quiet and coy so seen to be mature, but really most don't develop assertive abilities until about age 35.
If you disagre, ask youself at what age do women tend to chuck their useless husbands out and get a career. About 35 !!
What I see is that men and women both buy into our patriarchical systems. Both support it and encourage it and play the male/female roles in it.
As an agressive female, on one hand, I've attracted and obviously connected with guys who have appreciated the way I am--generally guys who were raised in more matriarchical families like I have. What I have found, though, is that no matter who it is or what the background, guys have always tried to "put me in my place" at some point in time. Even the open-minded ones who value who I am. When I cross usual lines, which I just do, and when I'm in territory that others are not used to, it's happened time and again. And, man, guys have tried to sexually put me in my place, too. I had a period in my life where boyfriend after boyfriend suggested we not even have sex at all, because they thought I was too focused on sex. My identity did revolve around it in a warped way, and those men were each very perceptive, and actually compassionate. My point is that men do the conditioning too. At the same time, I'm not in anyway passing off the accountability of women. I personally challenge many of the typical female roles. At other times I completely embrace them.
I do agree about women coming into themselves later in life, for sure. Totally. If men only knew the degree of falseness women are hiding behind before they reach 35 or so, and begin to awaken...it's a little scary, actually, how inauthentic we can be (edit: serious generalization alert from my experience!). I agree with this whole concept as you've put forth.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
If men only knew the degree of falseness women are hiding behind before they reach 35 or so, and begin to awaken...it's a little scary, actually, how inauthentic we can be (edit: serious generalization alert from my experience!). I agree with this whole concept as you've put forth.
What I see is that men and women both buy into our patriarchical systems. Both support it and encourage it and play the male/female roles in it.
As an agressive female, on one hand, I've attracted and obviously connected with guys who have appreciated the way I am--generally guys who were raised in more matriarchical families like I have. What I have found, though, is that no matter who it is or what the background, guys have always tried to "put me in my place" at some point in time. Even the open-minded ones who value who I am. When I cross usual lines, which I just do, and when I'm in territory that others are not used to, it's happened time and again. And, man, guys have tried to sexually put me in my place, too. I had a period in my life where boyfriend after boyfriend suggested we not even have sex at all, because they thought I was too focused on sex. My identity did revolve around it in a warped way, and those men were each very perceptive, and actually compassionate. My point is that men do the conditioning too. At the same time, I'm not in anyway passing off the accountability of women. I personally challenge many of the typical female roles. At other times I completely embrace them.
I do agree about women coming into themselves later in life, for sure. Totally. If men only knew the degree of falseness women are hiding behind before they reach 35 or so, and begin to awaken...it's a little scary, actually, how inauthentic we can be (edit: serious generalization alert from my experience!). I agree with this whole concept as you've put forth.
But, this is all very personal to your experience, and really isn't the best indicator of the human experience placed under the scientific microscope of what testosterone is about. Or aggressiveness/assertiveness. These are personality traits, I think. Not gender specific traits.
But, this is all very personal to your experience, and really isn't the best indicator of the human experience placed under the scientific microscope of what testosterone is about. Or aggressiveness/assertiveness. These are personality traits, I think. Not gender specific traits.
Personality traits and how women are socially conditioned is also relevent in whether they act assertive, or whether they are unassertive, compared to males.
What I've seen is definitely limited to my experience. I believe that lucy also said earlier that women are more prone to playing mind games, too, so it looks like he has perceived that as well in his experience.
and as an aside, I didn't mean to imply that by being assertive I was above playing mind games. I was huge into them myself for a long time.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Personality traits and how women are socially conditioned is also relevent in whether they act assertive, or whether they are unassertive, compared to males.
What I've seen is definitely limited to my experience. I believe that lucy also said earlier that women are more prone to playing mind games, too, so it looks like he has perceived that as well in his experience.
and as an aside, I didn't mean to imply that by being assertive I was above playing mind games. I was huge into them myself for a long time.
But, what's any of that got to do with anything in the world of "gender"?
Well I agree lucy, that mind games or physical force are not particularly nice or helpful. I do know that I've never hit anyone that hasn't hit me first. And it's unfortunate that I've had to resort to retaliation but sometimes, when your life's in danger that's exactly what you have to do. Along with running, hiding, curling into the fetal position and covering your head to hopefully lessen the trauma. There's no point being a pacifist if you're being given the hiding of your life and you want to live. And I still don't see what happened to me as particularly bad, given what I've heard has happened to others.
So I guess that's where I could also see myself being in their shoes, just as I can see myself in the abusers shoes. I understand to a degree how this stuff happens. But it doesn't make it right as you yourself said. But I can see the mindset that gets abused women plotting the demise of their abuser. I've done it myself. Plotted that is. Anyway, this stuff is way off thread as far as I can see and we've done it all before here and more and I know nothing about it as the great and might minds will tell you. :rolleyes:
What I'd like to know is when do you think we will have a female Prime Minister here in Australia?
I don't think we are off topic, we are tlaking about male vs female aggression.
I was not reffering to defensive force from women, I was referring to women as the aggressor. They did not hit me to defend them selves. They hit me through aggression. I also empathise with women who plot the demise of their aggressor. They have to, because they do not have the power to do it spontaneously.
How women and men are conditioned and gender norms in our society directly connect with gender.
I don't know who or what these conditioners are, and you might do well to question that yourself being that you've reached, by your own claim, an age that sees above the nonsense...
If gender were an identity, we would all introduce ourselves as such:
Hello, there, I'm Penis Testes Sperm, one of my primary life-forces is testosterone.
Well, Hello, I'm Vagina Clitoris Ovary, one of my primary life-forces is estrogen, see my boobs?
I don't know who or what these conditioners are, and you might do well to question that yourself being that you've reached, by your own claim, an age that sees above the nonsense...
If gender were an identity, we would all introduce ourselves as such:
Hello, there, I'm Penis, one of my primary life-forces is testosterone.
Well, Hello, I'm Vagina Clitoris, one of my primary life-forces is estrogen, see my boobs?
Gender--or our male or femaleness-- interacts with conditioning and cultural issues, which specifically teaches roles for males and females.
Also, some people progress okay and come through the falseness; others do not. Others go downhill as they age.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't know who or what these conditioners are, and you might do well to question that yourself being that you've reached, by your own claim, an age that sees above the nonsense...
If gender were an identity, we would all introduce ourselves as such:
Hello, there, I'm Penis Testes Sperm, one of my primary life-forces is testosterone.
Well, Hello, I'm Vagina Clitoris Ovary, one of my primary life-forces is estrogen, see my boobs?
Well, apart from teh fact that you seem to implying that "gender" means more than what sex a person is, that ius pretty much how we introduce ourselves, albeit non-verbally.
For example, I just saw a bloke who is an average fat-arse middle aged slob, and he has his nipples pierced. So he is trying to say, hey I'm really macho and tough ya know. The fact that it is "so 5 yr ago" is probbaly going to let him down though. I like snug shirts cos they flatter me, make me look like a strong protector and a good provider.
Alternatively, girls dress wiht their best feature on show, be it their face, their cleavage, their ass, whatever. Those things emphasise their potential fertility. Big tits, good feeder, nice tummy fat, gonna have babies.
None of this is bad though, it's just what we do, trying to do the best we can each day.
Comments
So, is it just a bunch of women spouting off first person perspective?
14 of the posters are Men
7 of the posters are Women.
Helen has the highest number of posts at 31. Would we all accept that is reasonable given that she is the thread starter and therefore will post more in this circumstance?
Ahnimus has the next highest number of posts at 22
I have the next highest at 15.
I haven't bothered doing a word count to see who has had the most to say, because I'm fairly certain just by looking we would know who that was.
So I'm thinking that it would be reasonable to say that this thread should not be considered as is here:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Did you take into account the posts that were not relating to the topic?
I also don't know who are men and who are women, luceylespain is a case in point. Cornnifer also looks like a female name to me. So as far as I know dunkman could be a woman.
Regardless, my statement was to the effect that any rational inquiry or statistical analysis or debate is undermined by the violent emotions of women justifying their perception of their own experiences.
Like when I try to debate the causes of the behavior called rape and my attempts are undermined by rape victims becoming overly defensive about the topic.
This kind of conversation is not debate, it's social pity, it's about crying and whining, not about debating anything.
Oh ahnimus, oh great one, oh mighty mind, pity me my useless ignorant femaleness and help me to see things as you do!!!!
I just can't seem to see this thread and so many others, any other way than just you on your soapbox again. I know, I know, I'm so aggressive and ignorant and arrogant.
I apologize for being me and seeing things the way I do. It must be that I'm deranged as you say.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Actually I'm not that easy, at all:D
Just ask..........uh nevermind:D
I haven't read the whole thread. In fact, other than Helen's first post, and todays additions, that's all I've read of it.
I'm keen to Baraka's posts. She has no agenda.
Ahnimus...you. I'm not so sure about.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Oh I'm sure you're not, tree! Easy going perhaps?
But I'll wager a damn sight easier than some!!
It's not about asking, it's about being told. Well that's how silly, little me sees it anyhow!
But then what would I know? Me being a girl and all! :rolleyes:
"That's jus female thinkin' an il gitcha inna trouble everytime!"
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Yes! Thank goodness for Baraka's "reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new."
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Also, these are important considerations from your link:
"While this survey indicates equal proportions of women and men report spousal violence, it also indicates that women are abused more severely than men. For example, women are more likely to be subjected to severe forms of violence (e.g. beaten, choked, sexually assaulted), are three times more likely to suffer injury, five times as likely to seek medical attention, and five times more likely to fear for their lives as a result of the violence. In other words, the severity and the impact of spousal violence on women and men have different outcomes and consequences."
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I won't discount those facts, but I was focused on intent to harm, rather than the severity of harm. Again, we can say that women are more concerned about their looks because they put make-up and stuff on, but it's just as much men that care about women's looks. This is similar because men putting on make-up is rarely attractive to a woman, so they would typically not. Likewise, it's unlikely that a woman will be capable of spontaneously bare-fist bashing their husbands into the hospital, due to anatomical difference. So the intent is not represented well by physical circumstances, but rather by the overall number of cases.
Without defending violence at all, I think it has to be admitted that it is easier for men to perpetrate violence against women than vice versa.
Women tend to use what they are good at, which is mind game stuff, men use what they are good at, which is physical force.
Neither is particularly nice , nor helpful.
I am an "aggressive/assertive" female. I've always been much more aggressive than most women I know. I find the majority of women I've known have been conditioned to be coy and more manipulative in meeting their needs than assertive. One night I was at a bar with a bunch of females. A guy walked in that we all knew. We all saw him. As he was walking towards us, each of the 3 girls I was with started pretending to not see the guy! They were "playing" hard to get! I thought "forget this" and just walked right up to the guy and started talking to him, and he and I hung out. I get surprised at the things women do that are so not assertive. One of the girls is a really dominant type, too, and she liked this guy, and her first response was to play a role rather than assert her true view. I've found that to be fairly normal. And I'm fully aware there is a distinct fringe of assertive women, too.
Men are not trained to be unassertive like women are, for the most part.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I like to have sex on the first date. What does that make me?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Ah yes, but who are they trained by ?? UI think you will find they have been trained by other frmales, not males.
When younger I recall being abused for greeting a gruop of females by saying "Hello ladies". They resented teh term "ladies", cos they felt it oppressed tehm wiht "ladies don't do this, ladies don't do that". I, of cousrese, was completely bewildered by this. I was just trying to be polite. I never oppress anybody, being far too keen to defend my own freedoms for that. It eventually occurred to me that it was their mothers and other older females doing the oppressing. Similarly with your scenario, it won't often be males that have conditioned the coy behaviour. It is also an expression of immatuity, in line wiht my idea that girls take a lot longer to mature than boys, they are just quieter about it. Boys are loud, so are seen to be immature, girls are quiet and coy so seen to be mature, but really most don't develop assertive abilities until about age 35.
If you disagre, ask youself at what age do women tend to chuck their useless husbands out and get a career. About 35 !!
I'm just being silly. You know me.
I usually score, though.
I must be doing something...in the way I go about it.
Men here can learn the secret by PM'ing me, and sending $99 through paypal to my account.
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Well I agree lucy, that mind games or physical force are not particularly nice or helpful. I do know that I've never hit anyone that hasn't hit me first. And it's unfortunate that I've had to resort to retaliation but sometimes, when your life's in danger that's exactly what you have to do. Along with running, hiding, curling into the fetal position and covering your head to hopefully lessen the trauma. There's no point being a pacifist if you're being given the hiding of your life and you want to live. And I still don't see what happened to me as particularly bad, given what I've heard has happened to others.
So I guess that's where I could also see myself being in their shoes, just as I can see myself in the abusers shoes. I understand to a degree how this stuff happens. But it doesn't make it right as you yourself said. But I can see the mindset that gets abused women plotting the demise of their abuser. I've done it myself. Plotted that is. Anyway, this stuff is way off thread as far as I can see and we've done it all before here and more and I know nothing about it as the great and might minds will tell you. :rolleyes:
What I'd like to know is when do you think we will have a female Prime Minister here in Australia?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
That was inappropriate.
And now YOU can Learn why!
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As an agressive female, on one hand, I've attracted and obviously connected with guys who have appreciated the way I am--generally guys who were raised in more matriarchical families like I have. What I have found, though, is that no matter who it is or what the background, guys have always tried to "put me in my place" at some point in time. Even the open-minded ones who value who I am. When I cross usual lines, which I just do, and when I'm in territory that others are not used to, it's happened time and again. And, man, guys have tried to sexually put me in my place, too. I had a period in my life where boyfriend after boyfriend suggested we not even have sex at all, because they thought I was too focused on sex. My identity did revolve around it in a warped way, and those men were each very perceptive, and actually compassionate. My point is that men do the conditioning too. At the same time, I'm not in anyway passing off the accountability of women. I personally challenge many of the typical female roles. At other times I completely embrace them.
I do agree about women coming into themselves later in life, for sure. Totally. If men only knew the degree of falseness women are hiding behind before they reach 35 or so, and begin to awaken...it's a little scary, actually, how inauthentic we can be (edit: serious generalization alert from my experience!). I agree with this whole concept as you've put forth.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Some women. Some people.
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But, this is all very personal to your experience, and really isn't the best indicator of the human experience placed under the scientific microscope of what testosterone is about. Or aggressiveness/assertiveness. These are personality traits, I think. Not gender specific traits.
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My kinda guy?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
What I've seen is definitely limited to my experience. I believe that lucy also said earlier that women are more prone to playing mind games, too, so it looks like he has perceived that as well in his experience.
and as an aside, I didn't mean to imply that by being assertive I was above playing mind games. I was huge into them myself for a long time.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
But, what's any of that got to do with anything in the world of "gender"?
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I don't think we are off topic, we are tlaking about male vs female aggression.
I was not reffering to defensive force from women, I was referring to women as the aggressor. They did not hit me to defend them selves. They hit me through aggression. I also empathise with women who plot the demise of their aggressor. They have to, because they do not have the power to do it spontaneously.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
If gender were an identity, we would all introduce ourselves as such:
Hello, there, I'm Penis Testes Sperm, one of my primary life-forces is testosterone.
Well, Hello, I'm Vagina Clitoris Ovary, one of my primary life-forces is estrogen, see my boobs?
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Also, some people progress okay and come through the falseness; others do not. Others go downhill as they age.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Well, apart from teh fact that you seem to implying that "gender" means more than what sex a person is, that ius pretty much how we introduce ourselves, albeit non-verbally.
For example, I just saw a bloke who is an average fat-arse middle aged slob, and he has his nipples pierced. So he is trying to say, hey I'm really macho and tough ya know. The fact that it is "so 5 yr ago" is probbaly going to let him down though. I like snug shirts cos they flatter me, make me look like a strong protector and a good provider.
Alternatively, girls dress wiht their best feature on show, be it their face, their cleavage, their ass, whatever. Those things emphasise their potential fertility. Big tits, good feeder, nice tummy fat, gonna have babies.
None of this is bad though, it's just what we do, trying to do the best we can each day.