"conditioning and cultural issues" may interact with gender, but to what extent are you giving credence to the falseness of this?
I'm dealing with what exists. When gender roles are seen objectively, subjectively, and inter-subjectively, I acknowledge these levels and how these dynamics play out.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't think we are off topic, we are tlaking about male vs female aggression.
I was not reffering to defensive force from women, I was referring to women as the aggressor. They did not hit me to defend them selves. They hit me through aggression. I also empathise with women who plot the demise of their aggressor. They have to, because they do not have the power to do it spontaneously.
I realized what you were talking about lucy.
I'm well aware that women can be highly aggressive and violent to men, other women and children.
I guess I'm just bored of the Male vs Female aggression thing coz we've done it all before. And seemingly we never reach consensus or make changes to the world around us.
And besides I've always wondered why, in a country that was very early into suffrage, still has not had a female prime minister.
And I wonder why so many of our female politicians are discredited and vilified the way they are.
Well, apart from teh fact that you seem to implying that "gender" means more than what sex a person is, that ius pretty much how we introduce ourselves, albeit non-verbally.
For example, I just saw a bloke who is an average fat-arse middle aged slob, and he has his nipples pierced. So he is trying to say, hey I'm really macho and tough ya know. The fact that it is "so 5 yr ago" is probbaly going to let him down though. I like snug shirts cos they flatter me, make me look like a strong protector and a good provider.
Alternatively, girls dress wiht their best feature on show, be it their face, their cleavage, their ass, whatever. Those things emphasise their potential fertility. Big tits, good feeder, nice tummy fat, gonna have babies.
None of this is bad though, it's just what we do, trying to do the best we can each day.
"conditioning and cultural issues" may interact with gender, but to what extent are you giving credence to the falseness of this?
Gender issues aren't false. The feminists of teh 70's and 80's treid to assert this, and did a lotof harm in teh process. The trick is to allow equality while repecting gender differences. Equating equality with sameness is a mistake.
I'm dealing with what exists. When gender roles are seen objectively, subjectively, and inter-subjectively, I acknowledge these levels and how these dynamics play out.
I think you're ducking out of the question.
I was asking you, personally, ""conditioning and cultural issues" may interact with gender, but to what extent are you giving credence to the "falseness" of this?
You aren't in a role to argue for the rest of us what gender roles are seen as "objective, subjective, or inter-subjectively". You are in a role as an individual on a message board, being asked to be honest.
Gender issues aren't false. The feminists of teh 70's and 80's treid to assert this, and did a lotof harm in teh process. The trick is to allow equality while repecting gender differences. Equating equality with sameness is a mistake.
I agree.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'm well aware that women can be highly aggressive and violent to men, other women and children.
I guess I'm just bored of the Male vs Female aggression thing coz we've done it all before. And seemingly we never reach consensus or make changes to the world around us.
And besides I've always wondered why, in a country that was very early into suffrage, still has not had a female prime minister.
And I wonder why so many of our female politicians are discredited and vilified the way they are.
I'm gogin to postulate that this is because of sex segregation at high school level. Politicians often come from private schools, and they tend not to be co-ed. So boys do not learn to interact with girls in an intelectual setting in those formative years. The female associate schools are primarily seen as sources of sexual conquest and those attitudes carry over into the business world............................
OR.............
I think you're ducking out of the question.
I was asking you, personally, ""conditioning and cultural issues" may interact with gender, but to what extent are you giving credence to the "falseness" of this?
You aren't in a role to argue for the rest of us what gender roles are seen as "objective, subjective, or inter-subjectively". You are in a role as an individual on a message board, being asked to be honest.
I gave you my response on how I see it. You are free to not like my response.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Gender issues aren't false. The feminists of teh 70's and 80's treid to assert this, and did a lotof harm in teh process. The trick is to allow equality while repecting gender differences. Equating equality with sameness is a mistake.
I agree with this too lucy, although I think from an historical and strategic point of view that perhaps that was the argument that feminists had to make at the time in order to make the most headway. Anyway, who knows?
Fact is we are were we are now, and it's time that we were all actually equal, whilst still retaining our individuality.
Gender issues aren't false. The feminists of teh 70's and 80's treid to assert this, and did a lotof harm in teh process. The trick is to allow equality while repecting gender differences. Equating equality with sameness is a mistake.
John Lennon sang that "woman is the nigger of the world", and he was onto something. He was speaking of the oppression of women in the vein that he could speak that way, he had a voice that could transcend, like eddie's, and tell a story, make a statement. I saw it myself, personally, in the way my father treated my mother, as a subordinate, it was pathetic, even through my child's eyes.
Yet, the oppression I saw, in retrospect, was of one personality over another. It was the personality over the gender.
I gave you my response on how I see it. You are free to not like my response.
Well, you are calling gender roles, "false". I tend to agree with you, at least in the puritan victorian sense, but, we don't really come from that period.
John Lennon sang that "woman is the nigger of the world", and he was onto something. He was speaking of the oppression of women in the vein that he could speak that way, he had a voice that could transcend, like eddie's, and tell a story, make a statement. I saw it myself, personally, in the way my father treated my mother, as a subordinate, it was pathetic, even through my child's eyes.
Yet, the oppression I saw, in retrospect, was of one personality over another. It was the personality over the gender.
The question is,
how did this personality come to be?
Part nature, part nuture (to be sure), but exclusive to a gender?
I think not.
I'm gogin to postulate that this is because of sex segregation at high school level. Politicians often come from private schools, and they tend not to be co-ed. So boys do not learn to interact with girls in an intelectual setting in those formative years. The female associate schools are primarily seen as sources of sexual conquest and those attitudes carry over into the business world............................
OR.............
Women are too smart to be politicians !!!!!
Actually, that's an interesting thought lucy. And I can see that it could have merit. Although it does sound like more of a Liberal party thing. And perhaps the Nationals. Doesn't really explain Labor or the Greens. And well to be honest I'm still trying to work out what the hell happened the Democrats and I reckon if Don was alive he would be too!
Well women are smart, that's for sure. But surely smart women could see that a more equatable input into the running of the country could only really benefit all?
Actually, that's an interesting thought lucy. And I can see that it could have merit. Although it does sound like more of a Liberal party thing. And perhaps the Nationals. Doesn't really explain Labor or the Greens. And well to be honest I'm still trying to work out what the hell happened the Democrats and I reckon if Don was alive he would be too!
Well women are smart, that's for sure. But surely smart women could see that a more equatable input into the running of the country could only really benefit all?
Lucy and Jeanie, you two are very good.
I'm glad you two post here.
I'll never say another bad thing about Australia as long as you do.
Actually, that's an interesting thought lucy. And I can see that it could have merit. Although it does sound like more of a Liberal party thing. And perhaps the Nationals. Doesn't really explain Labor or the Greens. And well to be honest I'm still trying to work out what the hell happened the Democrats and I reckon if Don was alive he would be too!
Well women are smart, that's for sure. But surely smart women could see that a more equatable input into the running of the country could only really benefit all?
Labor, ya gotta be a timeserver, preferably from a union background, and I ceratinly don't have the temperament for that and probably very few women do.
From a tribal perspective, men were teh defenders of the tribe, so it actually makes sense that they are our leaders today without it necessarily being "right", or having to be right.
As for the Greens, well maybe they are not the perfect little angels they make themselves out to be, maybe the people there are flawed like th rest of us, or maybe it is a temperament thing again. Men are maybe more suited to the thick-skinned hardness you need to succeed in politics.
MAybe smart women do contribute. In fact I garuntee they do, otherwise we would have one of those cultures you see in teh news where there is little or no female influence in government. Which brings us back to all yang, no yin and balance really is the most important thisn in this world.
Maybe we can nhave that withour having a female PM, only time will tell.
I'm not going to bat for Julia Gillard, purely because I don't want a Labor federal govt.
There are big differences between men and women that result in big differences between males dealing with assault from women and women dealing with it from men.
I am an "aggressive/assertive" female. I've always been much more aggressive than most women I know. I find the majority of women I've known have been conditioned to be coy and more manipulative in meeting their needs than assertive. One night I was at a bar with a bunch of females. A guy walked in that we all knew. We all saw him. As he was walking towards us, each of the 3 girls I was with started pretending to not see the guy! They were "playing" hard to get! I thought "forget this" and just walked right up to the guy and started talking to him, and he and I hung out. I get surprised at the things women do that are so not assertive. One of the girls is a really dominant type, too, and she liked this guy, and her first response was to play a role rather than assert her true view. I've found that to be fairly normal. And I'm fully aware there is a distinct fringe of assertive women, too.
Men are not trained to be unassertive like women are, for the most part.
Right, and my point was that statistically men are no more innately aggressive than women are. They both share the same intent to harm, but anatomical differences and social conditioning are determining factors in the overall damage caused by the intent. As you've laid out in your post, I likewise think society in general is to blame for the state of society. Which means that each one of us plays a role. Knowing this, my person has attempted to look at all situations from a different perspective than the way it is perceived through my eyes. For example, go outside and take a look, the earth is flat.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Labor, ya gotta be a timeserver, preferably from a union background, and I ceratinly don't have the temperament for that and probably very few women do.
From a tribal perspective, men were teh defenders of the tribe, so it actually makes sense that they are our leaders today without it necessarily being "right", or having to be right.
As for the Greens, well maybe they are not the perfect little angels they make themselves out to be, maybe the people there are flawed like th rest of us, or maybe it is a temperament thing again. Men are maybe more suited to the thick-skinned hardness you need to succeed in politics.
MAybe smart women do contribute. In fact I garuntee they do, otherwise we would have one of those cultures you see in teh news where there is little or no female influence in government. Which brings us back to all yang, no yin and balance really is the most important thisn in this world.
Maybe we can nhave that withour having a female PM, only time will tell.
I'm not going to bat for Julia Gillard, purely because I don't want a Labor federal govt.
Ah yes, that's true about Labor. God help us then if we have to suffer Sharon Burrow on the backbench at some point in the future! :eek:
Perhaps this is correct about men being thick skinned luce. Or maybe it's the system that is flawed, in that it seems to be so adversorial, and I can't really see the benefits of that. Perhaps a more unifying system would work better? And attract more women to the job? Just musing.
Well I'm not that keen on a Labor Federal government either lucy, because I really can't see that there'll be that much of a difference. Although I do want change. I'm tired of the Liberals. Tired, tired, tired of them.
I'd like to see a group of people running the country that were all balanced, well rounded, experts in their fields, and I'd like them to take up the positions that their expertise is in. Of course I'm quite sure that's not democracy and I've just described some heinous form of government that is abhorent to the rest of the population. But it's what I'd like to see. A united, forward moving Australia, governed for all Australians.
I like Julia. I like her alot. Except for the fact that she's Kev baby's patsy and will probably get shafted for Petey Garrett at some point.
I do so love yin and yang. The beauty and the simplicity of it.
Looks so pretty tattooed on my foot.
Right, and my point was that statistically men are no more innately aggressive than women are. They both share the same intent to harm, but anatomical differences and social conditioning are determining factors in the overall damage caused by the intent. As you've laid out in your post, I likewise think society in general is to blame for the state of society. Which means that each one of us plays a role. Knowing this, my person has attempted to look at all situations from a different perspective than the way it is perceived through my eyes. For example, go outside and take a look, the earth is flat.
To enforce that cause you have to abide by the idea that the public education system has superseded the role of parenthood, and I find that a hard pill to swallow, at least for the majority.
To enforce that cause you have to abide by the idea that the public education system has superseded the role of parenthood, and I find that a hard pill to swallow, at least for the majority.
No the public education system is a goulag of everything that is wrong with society. School is where children get their social identities from.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
More than once people have accused me of being ahnimus.
I can't really figure that one out, but I do like the fellow, and share some common thoughts with him.
I always found that humorous as well. It was common opinion here that I was the only person remotely intrigued by the idea of determinism, so any 3rd party interest, simply, must be me posing as a 3rd person. In actuality, the concept of determinism is quite popular amongst philosophical and scientific groups.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
"conditioning and cultural issues" may interact with gender, but to what extent are you giving credence to the falseness of this?
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http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I realized what you were talking about lucy.
I'm well aware that women can be highly aggressive and violent to men, other women and children.
I guess I'm just bored of the Male vs Female aggression thing coz we've done it all before. And seemingly we never reach consensus or make changes to the world around us.
And besides I've always wondered why, in a country that was very early into suffrage, still has not had a female prime minister.
And I wonder why so many of our female politicians are discredited and vilified the way they are.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I completely understand this.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
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Gender issues aren't false. The feminists of teh 70's and 80's treid to assert this, and did a lotof harm in teh process. The trick is to allow equality while repecting gender differences. Equating equality with sameness is a mistake.
I was asking you, personally, ""conditioning and cultural issues" may interact with gender, but to what extent are you giving credence to the "falseness" of this?
You aren't in a role to argue for the rest of us what gender roles are seen as "objective, subjective, or inter-subjectively". You are in a role as an individual on a message board, being asked to be honest.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I'm gogin to postulate that this is because of sex segregation at high school level. Politicians often come from private schools, and they tend not to be co-ed. So boys do not learn to interact with girls in an intelectual setting in those formative years. The female associate schools are primarily seen as sources of sexual conquest and those attitudes carry over into the business world............................
OR.............
Women are too smart to be politicians !!!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I agree with this too lucy, although I think from an historical and strategic point of view that perhaps that was the argument that feminists had to make at the time in order to make the most headway. Anyway, who knows?
Fact is we are were we are now, and it's time that we were all actually equal, whilst still retaining our individuality.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
John Lennon sang that "woman is the nigger of the world", and he was onto something. He was speaking of the oppression of women in the vein that he could speak that way, he had a voice that could transcend, like eddie's, and tell a story, make a statement. I saw it myself, personally, in the way my father treated my mother, as a subordinate, it was pathetic, even through my child's eyes.
Yet, the oppression I saw, in retrospect, was of one personality over another. It was the personality over the gender.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Well, you are calling gender roles, "false". I tend to agree with you, at least in the puritan victorian sense, but, we don't really come from that period.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
The question is,
how did this personality come to be?
Part nature, part nuture (to be sure), but exclusive to a gender?
I think not.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Ciao babes !!!!!!!
Chow.
hahaha.
enjoy.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Actually, that's an interesting thought lucy. And I can see that it could have merit. Although it does sound like more of a Liberal party thing. And perhaps the Nationals. Doesn't really explain Labor or the Greens. And well to be honest I'm still trying to work out what the hell happened the Democrats and I reckon if Don was alive he would be too!
Well women are smart, that's for sure. But surely smart women could see that a more equatable input into the running of the country could only really benefit all?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Lucy and Jeanie, you two are very good.
I'm glad you two post here.
I'll never say another bad thing about Australia as long as you do.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Labor, ya gotta be a timeserver, preferably from a union background, and I ceratinly don't have the temperament for that and probably very few women do.
From a tribal perspective, men were teh defenders of the tribe, so it actually makes sense that they are our leaders today without it necessarily being "right", or having to be right.
As for the Greens, well maybe they are not the perfect little angels they make themselves out to be, maybe the people there are flawed like th rest of us, or maybe it is a temperament thing again. Men are maybe more suited to the thick-skinned hardness you need to succeed in politics.
MAybe smart women do contribute. In fact I garuntee they do, otherwise we would have one of those cultures you see in teh news where there is little or no female influence in government. Which brings us back to all yang, no yin and balance really is the most important thisn in this world.
Maybe we can nhave that withour having a female PM, only time will tell.
I'm not going to bat for Julia Gillard, purely because I don't want a Labor federal govt.
avagoodweekend lucy!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Why thank you gue!
I've actually being saying a lot less bad things about America since I have been posting here myself!!
You're not so bad yourself!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
hmmm...
can i see a picture first?
full body, not just a picture portrait.
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You know?
the anonimity of such a thing.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Right, and my point was that statistically men are no more innately aggressive than women are. They both share the same intent to harm, but anatomical differences and social conditioning are determining factors in the overall damage caused by the intent. As you've laid out in your post, I likewise think society in general is to blame for the state of society. Which means that each one of us plays a role. Knowing this, my person has attempted to look at all situations from a different perspective than the way it is perceived through my eyes. For example, go outside and take a look, the earth is flat.
Ah yes, that's true about Labor. God help us then if we have to suffer Sharon Burrow on the backbench at some point in the future! :eek:
Perhaps this is correct about men being thick skinned luce. Or maybe it's the system that is flawed, in that it seems to be so adversorial, and I can't really see the benefits of that. Perhaps a more unifying system would work better? And attract more women to the job? Just musing.
Well I'm not that keen on a Labor Federal government either lucy, because I really can't see that there'll be that much of a difference. Although I do want change. I'm tired of the Liberals. Tired, tired, tired of them.
I'd like to see a group of people running the country that were all balanced, well rounded, experts in their fields, and I'd like them to take up the positions that their expertise is in. Of course I'm quite sure that's not democracy and I've just described some heinous form of government that is abhorent to the rest of the population. But it's what I'd like to see. A united, forward moving Australia, governed for all Australians.
I like Julia. I like her alot. Except for the fact that she's Kev baby's patsy and will probably get shafted for Petey Garrett at some point.
I do so love yin and yang. The beauty and the simplicity of it.
Looks so pretty tattooed on my foot.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
haha!!
I think there's a pic on the show your face thread, BUT I did just "show my face"
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Wouldn't it be cool to hide here under an assumed identity?
I mean, imagine if you had another log on and you made a whole persona the opposite of your actual gender? Now that could be a lot of fun!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
To enforce that cause you have to abide by the idea that the public education system has superseded the role of parenthood, and I find that a hard pill to swallow, at least for the majority.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
More than once people have accused me of being ahnimus.
I can't really figure that one out, but I do like the fellow, and share some common thoughts with him.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
No the public education system is a goulag of everything that is wrong with society. School is where children get their social identities from.
I always found that humorous as well. It was common opinion here that I was the only person remotely intrigued by the idea of determinism, so any 3rd party interest, simply, must be me posing as a 3rd person. In actuality, the concept of determinism is quite popular amongst philosophical and scientific groups.