stupid americans

CorporateWhore

Shapur wrote:

And for your information, the Soviet Union advanced economically more than any capitalist state has in the history of mankind, during the first and second five year plans. And guess what? They didn't need millions of black slaves to do it with.

Yeah! Plus 100 million people were killed! Whoops!

Shapur

Saturnal wrote:

Where are the admins for god sake? Way too much flaming here.

Agreed. Go back a page to see who started the flaming.

Shapur

CorporateWhore wrote:

Yeah! Plus 100 million people were killed! Whoops!

100 million people were killed during the first and second five year plans? Wow...just...wow.

jeffbr

Shapur wrote:

Don't be surprised when others decide to do the same to you in the future.

I expect others to act in self-interest. I also expect to continue to do the same. It is those who rely on others who end up surprised.

Shapur wrote:

I said obsolete, not dead.

Noted. The difference doesn't change my comments above.

Shapur wrote:

And for your information, the Soviet Union advanced economically more than any capitalist state has in the history of mankind, during the first and second five year plans. And guess what? They didn't need millions of black slaves to do it with.

So your system is good for a couple of 5 year runs until it devolves into bread lines?

Shapur

jeffbr wrote:

I expect others to act in self-interest. I also expect to continue to do the same. It is those who rely on others who end up surprised.

Individuals doing this is not really important. But when a class does this, that's when it starts to become interesting. Especially when the majority class, the working-class, starts doing this.

So your system is good for a couple of 5 year runs until it devolves into bread lines?

Well, no. Firstly it wasn't "my kind of system" at that stage either. Even though it was planned, the people who planned it could have certainly done a better job. A lot of resources went to private places of the top party leaders and such. So a lot of bad also happened.

But in general it proves that the system is superior to the capitalist system, which is based on the anarchy of production. While the US was in a state of economic ruin, one which affected every other major capitalist power as well, the USSR was left almost entirely unaffected by it.

This was because the economy was not regulated by the unstable and anarchistic market system. The USSR industrialized in 10 years. Western-Europe and the US took about a century to achieve the same level of development, and not only that, they required mass exploitation of workers and in some cases the use of slaves (see US).

This economic system that was in place was founded by the working-class taking over the means of production of the country. Sadly the top of the party took it over, and even though at first they did a relatively good job of planning it, they screwed up as time went on. Free Market mechanisms were introduced to the system after Kruschev took over power.

The supply and demand system, albeit in a less obvious form than in capitalist states, was introduced to some sectors of the economy, resulting in the profit motive being introduced back.

So factories that used to be told to produce a good that was needed by the population were now told to produce whatever good they thought would yield the most profit....sound familiar?

It's not a coincidence that the USSR's economy began to decline after Kruschev rose to power.

Anyway, I believe that it would've been a lot better if the workers themselves held control of the means of production, and I believe that that's how it should be done in the future.

Scubascott

Did anyone else think that the last guy in the third video, the one that said: 'Incinerate the bloody bastards. Take 'em straight to hell like we did to the Japanese in world war II' Looks a lot like Jewish Porn King Seymore Butts?

CorporateWhore

I'd rather be dead than Red. If someone ever tried to turn this country into what Shapur thinks it should be, I'd be completely in favor of putting each and every one of them in jail.

brain of c

DPrival78 wrote:

some people find this funny. i find it extremely sad and very frightening.

watch all 4 parts

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VtXCs0Wqs9Q&mode=related&search=

it's funny that you think i'll watch.

Scubascott

brain of c wrote:

it's funny that you think i'll watch.

You should watch it. I nearly shat myself laughing. At least watch part three. The best bit is when they get people to pin flags on the countries they think America should invade next, and one guy looks at mainland Australia (labeled North Korea), and is surprised at how much bigger it is than Tasmania (labeled South Korea).

CNNNN was a great show while it lasted, so was the Chaser's war on everything, which was done by the same guys. I hope they make it back onto TV in the near future.

CorporateWhore

Scubascott wrote:

You should watch it. I nearly shat myself laughing. At least watch part three. The best bit is when they get people to pin flags on the countries they think America should invade next, and one guy looks at mainland Australia (labeled North Korea), and is surprised at how much bigger it is than Tasmania (labeled South Korea).

CNNNN was a great show while it lasted, so was the Chaser's war on everything, which was done by the same guys. I hope they make it back onto TV in the near future.

I'd love to invade Australia sometime.

Shapur

CorporateWhore wrote:

I'd rather be dead than Red. If someone ever tried to turn this country into what Shapur thinks it should be, I'd be completely in favor of putting each and every one of them in jail.

I don't think the majority, i.e., the working class, would give a shit.

Byrnzie

CorporateWhore wrote:

Here's a little critique on "A People's History of the United States" from a leftist:

"But Zinn's big book is quite unworthy of such fame and influence. A People's History is bad history, albeit gilded with virtuous intentions. Zinn reduces the past to a Manichean fable..."

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=385

The book is shitty history. It's crap. Zinn's own left-wing comrades say so.

Not everyone says so. Historians and critics will praise or dismiss Zinns book depnding on their own personal values. A right wing neo-con won't like it, and neither will many C.E.O's of multi-nationals, although many intellectuals without a capitalist axe to grind are likely to heap praise upon it. It all depends on which side of the fence you happen to be on. Some people see history merely as a series of different politicians and wars. Others see it as a series of popular grass-roots struggles against oppression, and the advance of human rights and real democracy. You obviously hail from the former type.

trappedinmyradio

Byrnzie wrote:

Not everyone says so. Historians and critics will praise or dismiss Zinns book depnding on their own personal values. A right wing neo-con won't like it, and neither will many C.E.O's of multi-nationals, although many intellectuals without a capitalist axe to grind are likely to heap praise upon it. It all depends on which side of the fence you happen to be on. Some people see history merely as a series of different politicians and wars. Others see it as a series of popular grass-roots struggles against oppression, and the advance of human rights and real democracy. You obviously hail from the former type.

Here's a little critique on "A People's History of the United States" from a leftist

"But Zinn's big book is quite unworthy of such fame and influence. A People's History is bad history, albeit gilded with virtuous intentions. Zinn reduces the past to a Manichean fable..."

do you just ignore things?

Mans

Okay, forgive me but I haven't read any of the post about this; but I just had to say that THE BEST thing about those video clips was the news bullitons moving across the bottom of the screen? FUCKING CLASSIC!!!!! Alright, Beverley Hills 90210 is on TV now, so I gotta go.... Good night y'all!

PS. sorry; I'm drunk

Byrnzie

baraka wrote:

I love Indian food! Yummy

I also like to celibrate other cultures. I think one can appreciate and enjoy other cultures without 'losing their idenity'.

I agree. I think that co-existing with other cultures helps both cultures to evolve and flourish. I don't know what I'd do without my lamb Rogan Josh curries with poppadoms and mango chutney.

trappedinmyradio

Byrnzie wrote:

I agree. I think that co-existing with other cultures helps both cultures to evolve and flourish. I don't know what I'd do without my lamb Rogan Josh curries with poppadoms and mango chutney.

you certainly have a point there...on both points...

Collin

CorporateWhore wrote:

I'd rather be dead than Red. If someone ever tried to turn this country into what Shapur thinks it should be, I'd be completely in favor of putting each and every one of them in jail.

Really, why?

fanch75

Byrnzie wrote:

I agree. I think that co-existing with other cultures helps both cultures to evolve and flourish. I don't know what I'd do without my lamb Rogan Josh curries with poppadoms and mango chutney.

Oh hell yeah. I absolutely adore foreign food.

MakingWaves

Shapur wrote:

I don't think the majority, i.e., the working class, would give a shit.

You could not be more wrong! You don't think the working class would give a shit? The working class would be the first in line to defend the system.

CorporateWhore

Shapur wrote:

I don't think the majority, i.e., the working class, would give a shit.

The working class is on my side. They hate commie fucks.