gun control:i dont understand...

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
Where you're at? You personally know of special needs children being enslaved... and accept 'It's hard to find homes for Special needs kids.' as an excuse to abuse them. And trigger happy neighbors just itching to shoot an unarmed man in a fist fight?
Yeah... sounds like a real fucking great place to live.

again; what are you talking about? i worked with special needs children; yes. i knew someone i thought was abusing those children by making them work in a way that i believed was slave labour. i reported that foster home to the state who said foster homes were hard to find. and i notified the school who's counselor interviewed the children and reported it to the state. the court then removed the children from the home; but decided that chores are a normal part of life and chores on a horse farm will naturally be different than chores in a city dwelling. so no charges were pressed.
i made a couple calls to CPS offices in states back east and found that foster homes for retarded and abused children are even harder to find. so i fail to see your point.
i do not recall any conversation about shooting a neighbour over a fist fight so i cannot comment.

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
I heard it takes a while to catch a crow.

i had a crow that woke me up every morning for a month. i decided it was him or me. it took me 6 weeks or so to finally shoot that bastard. the second i touched the door he heard it. i finally had to leave the window open enough to get a rifle barrel out. he's mounted so i can see him every day now.
and he hasn't made a sound in over 27 years.

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
Here you go:
"Police did not release the identity of the gunman, who was shot and killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff. Boyd said the gunman had no connection to the church and called it a “senseless random attack.”"

"The gunman was killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff before police arrived, Meyers said."

"Some 15 to 20 volunteer guards serve at the church, Boyd said, noting that an evacuation plan was performed flawlessly."

Ref. ( http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/content/news/stories/2007/12/10/ChurchShootings.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=7 )

Another source:
"DENVER (AP) - Police say an autopsy shows the man who killed four people at a Colorado church and a missionary training center died from a bullet he fired himself -- though he was hit by shots from a church security officer."

Ref. ( http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/global/story.asp?s=7481426 )
...
Let me know how that Crow tastes.

what crow? the information on the tele right after the incident obviouly wasn't as accurate as the information you found. i was wrong and i admitt that. i didn't have credable information. it happens all the time with people here. i'm one that will admitt when i'm wrong.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

again; what are you talking about? i worked with special needs children; yes. i knew someone i thought was abusing those children by making them work in a way that i believed was slave labour. i reported that foster home to the state who said foster homes were hard to find. and i notified the school who's counselor interviewed the children and reported it to the state. the court then removed the children from the home; but decided that chores are a normal part of life and chores on a horse farm will naturally be different than chores in a city dwelling. so no charges were pressed.
i made a couple calls to CPS offices in states back east and found that foster homes for retarded and abused children are even harder to find. so i fail to see your point.
i do not recall any conversation about shooting a neighbour over a fist fight so i cannot comment.

...
Your recollection skills are about as good as Bush or cheney... neither of them recall saying loony shit in the past, either.
...
Again.. to refresh your memory:
Ref. ( http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=265855 )

#119 - i can give you a list of people working the system. i've got these neighbours that take in abused kids as foster parents. gread deed right? they use the kids as slave labour but they get $2400/month PER BLOODY CHILD. they don't work at all. recently they sent a girl back and traded her for 2 brothers. the brothers can stay in the same room and they needed to increase their income. these children get nothing from them. 1 new outfit for school. last year i spent more for the gifts i gave those children than they did. i later found out that after the neighbourhood christmas; they returned the kids presents. except the ones for their own daughter. she got a phone and a laptop. and 2 months ago their daughter got a brand new pick up truck for her 15th birthday. there's no law here so people don't worry about drivers licenses or things like that.
these are the kinds of things i see.

#127 - i photograph every instance of abuse and i report them to the state. at least once a month. the state replies that they cannot get enough families willing to take special needs kids so the state does nothing. i do all i can including buying those kids decent presents.
...
About your psycho neighbors wanting to kill an unarmed man...
You were acting all Johnny Macho with guns and knives an shit (something I find completely pathetic).
#112 - you best be checking the gunlaws in the states you're going to. if you drew back on anyone in this town; you'd be dead before you could throw the punch. and that's a fact you can take to the bank.

#123 - i'm faster with a knife. besides; if you drew back on 1 resident; a dozen residents would be emptying their mags into you.
...
Read an recall.
So, now... instead of eating just one crow... you need to eat an entire murder of them.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

what crow? the information on the tele right after the incident obviouly wasn't as accurate as the information you found. i was wrong and i admitt that. i didn't have credable information. it happens all the time with people here. i'm one that will admitt when i'm wrong.

...
Then, you might look into checking out some facts before accusing someone of 'twisting' stories to fit non-existant agendas.
...
Does crow taste like chicken?

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
Your recollection skills are about as good as Bush or cheney... neither of them recall saying loony shit in the past, either.
...
Again.. to refresh your memory:
Ref. ( http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=265855 )

#119 - i can give you a list of people working the system. i've got these neighbours that take in abused kids as foster parents. gread deed right? they use the kids as slave labour but they get $2400/month PER BLOODY CHILD. they don't work at all. recently they sent a girl back and traded her for 2 brothers. the brothers can stay in the same room and they needed to increase their income. these children get nothing from them. 1 new outfit for school. last year i spent more for the gifts i gave those children than they did. i later found out that after the neighbourhood christmas; they returned the kids presents. except the ones for their own daughter. she got a phone and a laptop. and 2 months ago their daughter got a brand new pick up truck for her 15th birthday. there's no law here so people don't worry about drivers licenses or things like that.
these are the kinds of things i see.

#127 - i photograph every instance of abuse and i report them to the state. at least once a month. the state replies that they cannot get enough families willing to take special needs kids so the state does nothing. i do all i can including buying those kids decent presents.
...
About your psycho neighbors wanting to kill an unarmed man...
You were acting all Johnny Macho with guns and knives an shit (something I find completely pathetic).
#112 - you best be checking the gunlaws in the states you're going to. if you drew back on anyone in this town; you'd be dead before you could throw the punch. and that's a fact you can take to the bank.

#123 - i'm faster with a knife. besides; if you drew back on 1 resident; a dozen residents would be emptying their mags into you.
...
Read an recall.
So, now... instead of eating just one crow... you need to eat an entire murder of them.

those neighbours were reported until someone listened and something was done about it. cities have much more system abuse so what's your point. you'll find much more abuse in NYC yet they have the strictest gunlaws so where does that fits in here?

most of that list includes people from phoenix; but again; where does that fit in here?

if your neighbours wouldn't protect you; i feel sorry for you.

and yes; draw back on me and i'll shoot you dead. it's called self defence. backed by the supreme court. if you can't live by society's rules and be peaceful; you pay the price.

i can throw a knife more accurately than most people can shoot.

as for the rest; i posted a disclaimer at/near the beginning of that thread saying i'm taking the extreme side for the sake of the debate. it also said that some things said are not my belief; but only part of the debate process. remember debate in school? you were given a topic to defend. my thread about the housewife killing an attacker where i defended the attacker; was clear to any idiot that i can defend both sides. you must take the entire debate as a whole. i'm honoured that you think so much of me; that you hang on every word and archive everything i say. unfortunately; i don't feel the same.

soulsinging

onelongsong wrote:

as for the rest; i posted a disclaimer at/near the beginning of that thread saying i'm taking the extreme side for the sake of the debate. it also said that some things said are not my belief; but only part of the debate process. remember debate in school? you were given a topic to defend. my thread about the housewife killing an attacker where i defended the attacker; was clear to any idiot that i can defend both sides. you must take the entire debate as a whole. i'm honoured that you think so much of me; that you hang on every word and archive everything i say. unfortunately; i don't feel the same.

yeah, we called them shit talkers where i went to school... you know, the guy that no matter what the subject was ALWAYS was an expert, and always either had done what you were talking about and in a way better or cooler fashion, or knew personally someone who had. we liked to make fun of them for their tall tales.

throwing knives eh? you keep dodging that point... that you're a coward who can't face anyone like a man... hand to hand. you talk only of killing with weapons.

i also don't buy your devil's advocate thing. you don't honestly argue both sides. you mock the one you adopt.

onelongsong

soulsinging wrote:

yeah, we called them shit talkers where i went to school... you know, the guy that no matter what the subject was ALWAYS was an expert, and always either had done what you were talking about and in a way better or cooler fashion, or knew personally someone who had. we liked to make fun of them for their tall tales.

throwing knives eh? you keep dodging that point... that you're a coward who can't face anyone like a man... hand to hand. you talk only of killing with weapons.

i also don't buy your devil's advocate thing. you don't honestly argue both sides. you mock the one you adopt.

it's clear to me that i'll never hear anything intelligent from you. please put me on your ignore list.

soulsinging

onelongsong wrote:

it's clear to me that i'll never hear anything intelligent from you. please put me on your ignore list.

you are incapable of doing that yourself? i get a kick out of exposing you... "answer the question claire"... do you have the cojones to fight like a man?

i know the truth can hurt. shall i list your resume again? you did add astronomist and climatologist to it yesterday, i feel it needs updating! im only saying this becos im truly impressed how no matter what the subject is you can come up with a story of you rescuing abused children (how do you get those pictures of the abuse if they live so far away you need a flag to communicate with them and mel gibson's house is in between you?_ or a guy you know who was a criminal mastermind on a dime. i really hope you reply to this to tell me you used to be the kickboxing middleweight champ of the western us and you'll take me on any day. that would just be too perfect.

Strangest Tribe

Read Freakanomics. There are some great answers to the crime debate in the US. It's not about the guns... It's about class struggles, education, rich vs poor, equality, cultural hatred, healthcare , frustration, and abortion rates.

Our country is unique in all these aspects so drawing comparisons with counties with strict gun laws is erroneous because the socioeconomic systems are vastly different.

onelongsong

Strangest Tribe wrote:

Read Freakanomics. There are some great answers to the crime debate in the US. It's not about the guns... It's about class struggles, education, rich vs poor, equality, cultural hatred, healthcare , frustration, and abortion rates.

Our country is unique in all these aspects so drawing comparisons with counties with strict gun laws is erroneous because the socioeconomic systems are vastly different.

i'll do that. it sounds like the intelligent way to address problems. thank you

steve_inhiding

New laws will solve nothing as long as there is a gun culture in the US. When I recently travelled through LAX I had a gun pointed at me because I tried repeatedly to ask an immigration officer a question when I'd been told to "STAND IN LINE!!!". (It didn't help that I started to sing "hey fatty boom boom" to the overweight officer in question, Couldn't help it!!)

In NZ and the UK as I've seen it, the police are respected for there positions, not because they carry firearms. This hugely reduces peoples perceived (sp) need for guns. People tend to presume that no one is carrying a gun, thus they themselve don't need a gun. This is what I see anyway. Long story short, when i went through LAX I felt terrified. Anywhere else, I felt "normal".

Cheers,
Steve

onelongsong

steve_inhiding wrote:

New laws will solve nothing as long as there is a gun culture in the US. When I recently travelled through LAX I had a gun pointed at me because I tried repeatedly to ask an immigration officer a question when I'd been told to "STAND IN LINE!!!". (It didn't help that I started to sing "hey fatty boom boom" to the overweight officer in question, Couldn't help it!!)

In NZ and the UK as I've seen it, the police are respected for there positions, not because they carry firearms. This hugely reduces peoples perceived (sp) need for guns. People tend to presume that no one is carrying a gun, thus they themselve don't need a gun. This is what I see anyway. Long story short, when i went through LAX I felt terrified. Anywhere else, I felt "normal".

Cheers,
Steve

there's much more to it steve. if you like; i can find a post from last week stating the shootings in south london. we cannot remove guns unless we can remove the technology from the minds of everyone. isn't the problem really about those who abuse them?

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

those neighbours were reported until someone listened and something was done about it. cities have much more system abuse so what's your point. you'll find much more abuse in NYC yet they have the strictest gunlaws so where does that fits in here?

most of that list includes people from phoenix; but again; where does that fit in here?

if your neighbours wouldn't protect you; i feel sorry for you.

and yes; draw back on me and i'll shoot you dead. it's called self defence. backed by the supreme court. if you can't live by society's rules and be peaceful; you pay the price.

i can throw a knife more accurately than most people can shoot.

as for the rest; i posted a disclaimer at/near the beginning of that thread saying i'm taking the extreme side for the sake of the debate. it also said that some things said are not my belief; but only part of the debate process. remember debate in school? you were given a topic to defend. my thread about the housewife killing an attacker where i defended the attacker; was clear to any idiot that i can defend both sides. you must take the entire debate as a whole. i'm honoured that you think so much of me; that you hang on every word and archive everything i say. unfortunately; i don't feel the same.

...
You must have been the worst lawyer... EVER.
Good call not practicing law anymore.

steve_inhiding

onelongsong wrote:

there's much more to it steve. if you like; i can find a post from last week stating the shootings in south london.

This is true and unfortunate.

I'd believe that these rules should apply to all countries.

I was more trying to get at the "right to bear arms" part of the US constitution which I personally see as a antiquated part of the constitution. This seems to be where people can defend themselves against having unneccesary firearms instead of sporting firearms.

This is not an attack on the stance of US arms bearers specifically but more on the idea of arms to defend oneself, (which seems more prevalent in the US than elsewhere).

Again, I don't have an intimate knowledge of the US constitution and it's everyday implications, but it seems to me that there is so much damage done through the defence of it than what could be gained from the changing of it.

Cheers,
Steve

onelongsong

steve_inhiding wrote:

This is true and unfortunate.

I'd believe that these rules should apply to all countries.

I was more trying to get at the "right to bear arms" part of the US constitution which I personally see as a antiquated part of the constitution. This seems to be where people can defend themselves against having unneccesary firearms instead of sporting firearms.

This is not an attack on the stance of US arms bearers specifically but more on the idea of arms to defend oneself, (which seems more prevalent in the US than elsewhere).

Again, I don't have an intimate knowledge of the US constitution and it's everyday implications, but it seems to me that there is so much damage done through the defence of it than what could be gained from the changing of it.

Cheers,
Steve

i understand the confusion mate. i had a hard time understanding the UK's stance until jeremy explained it. to be honest; i had to shut my bloody mouth and listen to what he had to say. now i understand.
the problem doesn't lie in the honest people having guns. it has more to do with criminals committing crimes with guns. that's my take on it anyway.
if you're interested in the constitution; primarily the 2nd amendment; i'll post a link below which has quotes from our founding fathers. it's purpose was to protect us from the government. give it a read mate. i think you'll find it interesting.
cheers
http://www.trollcave.com/2nd_Amendment.html

steve_inhiding

thanks onelongsong, I think...

Ironically, I believe that the lack of a written constitution in NZ, (I think the UK also although I'm not particularly aware of UK gun law) has helped us avoid such ambiguity.

Although I read the article you posted numerous times, I understood maybe half of it. The Ambiguity makes me understand how it is possible for you (US citizens) to dispute this clause so verociously. There are so many ways to argue any number of points of view that it drives ME insane. I can't imagine what it does to those directly affected. This stilll doesn't move me from my persective of limiting gun ownership but does allow me to somewhat understand the quagmire you're in.

Cheers,
Steve

onelongsong

steve_inhiding wrote:

thanks onelongsong, I think...

Ironically, I believe that the lack of a written constitution in NZ, (I think the UK also although I'm not particularly aware of UK gun law) has helped us avoid such ambiguity.

Although I read the article you posted numerous times, I understood maybe half of it. The Ambiguity makes me understand how it is possible for you (US citizens) to dispute this clause so verociously. There are so many ways to argue any number of points of view that it drives ME insane. I can't imagine what it does to those directly affected. This stilll doesn't move me from my persective of limiting gun ownership but does allow me to somewhat understand the quagmire you're in.

Cheers,
Steve

my intent wasn't to sway you. but after reading that; do you think the 2nd amendment was meant to protect us from the type of government we have now?
just a friendly question between blokes.
cheers

steve_inhiding

onelongsong wrote:

my intent wasn't to sway you. but after reading that; do you think the 2nd amendment was meant to protect us from the type of government we have now?
just a friendly question between blokes.
cheers

I think that the founding fathers were some of the most enlightened thinkers that western philosophy has ever seen.

I personally believe that the current administration are leaning towards what they (the founding fathers) believed were wrong and deserved to be stood up against. However, I think that people are too comfortable these days to stand up to the administrations infringements of personal liberty and I also believe that the climate in which the constitution was written (that of great fervour and earnest) has evaporated greatly.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. The one thing I always hope those with any power in hand will remember is that they're acting with more than just their interests in mind, but with those of the entire globe, as selfish as that may sound.

Cheers,
Steve

ps, how do you set up a signature, I'm sick of typing cheers, steve

cheers,
Steve

onelongsong

steve_inhiding wrote:

I think that the founding fathers were some of the most enlightened thinkers that western philosophy has ever seen.

I personally believe that the current administration are leaning towards what they (the founding fathers) believed were wrong and deserved to be stood up against. However, I think that people are too comfortable these days to stand up to the administrations infringements of personal liberty and I also believe that the climate in which the constitution was written (that of great fervour and earnest) has evaporated greatly.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. The one thing I always hope those with any power in hand will remember is that they're acting with more than just their interests in mind, but with those of the entire globe, as selfish as that may sound.

Cheers,
Steve

ps, how do you set up a signature, I'm sick of typing cheers, steve

cheers,
Steve

i wish you were wrong too steve but you're not. you're "outside looking in" analasis is spot on.
cheers

click on private messages (top right) and on the left hand side you'll see "edit signature". click there; type cheers; and click apply (or submitt. i forget)