gun control:i dont understand...

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  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    810wmb wrote:
    umm, was directed towards cate maybe?

    hell, i'm with you!

    no; cate's my friend. i've been replying to several gun threads over the last week or so and a certain skirt wearing bloke thinks he has all the answers. i'm tired of his name calling which tells me he has no intelligence or is a young child; and brags about enjoying beating up americans. after a week of battering; i deserve to blow up. i just didn't mean for any fallout to land in cates direction. she's a good person. and i'm sure if she just put up with a week of aussie bashing threads; she'd do the same.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    g under p wrote:
    Maybe this could be another side of the equation: The High Cost Of Manliness.

    Peace

    good luck getting support on that one.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    good luck getting support on that one.

    No doubt. Professional criminologists don't even get support for their theories. People want sound-byte solutions that don't directly involve them in any way.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No doubt. Professional criminologists don't even get support for their theories. People want sound-byte solutions that don't directly involve them in any way.

    and american men all wanna be john mclane way too bad to consider toning it down.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    soulsinging wrote:
    and american men all wanna be john mclane way too bad to consider toning it down.


    who's john mclane?
  • Pegasus
    Pegasus Posts: 3,754
    after the Dunblane massacre in Scotland and the Port Arthur one in Oz in 96 (within weeks of each other, I was in Oz at the time), gun laws were changed in both countries.

    know what? since then, NOTHING like that ever happened again!

    there might still be some gun problems, but it's nearly always gang-related and 1 or 2 people at a time, nothing like happens on a regular basis in the state!

    so yes, gun control IS the solution to that particular problem!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Pegasus wrote:
    after the Dunblane massacre in Scotland and the Port Arthur one in Oz in 96 (within weeks of each other, I was in Oz at the time), gun laws were changed in both countries.

    know what? since then, NOTHING like that ever happened again!

    there might still be some gun problems, but it's nearly always gang-related and 1 or 2 people at a time, nothing like happens on a regular basis in the state!

    so yes, gun control IS the solution to that particular problem!


    Well I can't speak for Scotland and there hasn't been a repeat of the kind of massacre that was perpertrated by Martin Bryant, but you're dreaming if you think there hasn't been an increase in knife related deaths and stabbings. AND there have been more than a couple of incidents of innocent bystanders being shot or traumatized by criminals weilding guns in public places. Amongst other things. And lets not even start on how many people have been killed in the underworld wars here in Melbourne. ALL of which involved guns and just PURE LUCK that innocent bystanders haven't been killed. And an increase in gang related violence or violence in general. Semi automatics and automatic weapons are out there. Just none of the law abiding citizens that had them and never used them have them anymore.
    We probably would have had the same result in stopping massacres of the type perpertrated by Martin Bryant and his colleague Julian Knight if we had BETTER psychiatric services.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Pegasus wrote:
    after the Dunblane massacre in Scotland and the Port Arthur one in Oz in 96 (within weeks of each other, I was in Oz at the time), gun laws were changed in both countries.

    know what? since then, NOTHING like that ever happened again!

    there might still be some gun problems, but it's nearly always gang-related and 1 or 2 people at a time, nothing like happens on a regular basis in the state!

    so yes, gun control IS the solution to that particular problem!

    so leave the bloody us alone. you have no vested interest. in fact; go find that thread with jeremy talking about south london. me thinks you need a bit of educating.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Pegasus wrote:
    after the Dunblane massacre in Scotland and the Port Arthur one in Oz in 96 (within weeks of each other, I was in Oz at the time), gun laws were changed in both countries.

    know what? since then, NOTHING like that ever happened again!

    there might still be some gun problems, but it's nearly always gang-related and 1 or 2 people at a time, nothing like happens on a regular basis in the state!

    so yes, gun control IS the solution to that particular problem!

    Actually... in 1999 the homicide rate in Australia was identical to 1996.

    http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    In 2004-05 there were 249 incidents involving 267 victims of homicide, the lowest number of homicide incidents and victims in Australia since the AIC began monitoring. The weapons/methods used in the commission of homicide have remained relatively unchanged over the years. The figure below shows that while the most common types of weapons used in homicide in Australia are weapons of opportunity, such as knives or sharp instruments and hands and/or feet, weapon use tends to differ based on the gender of the victim. Females were more likely to be killed with a knife or sharp instrument (37%), followed by being beaten to death with hands and/or feet (27%). This pattern of weapon use was similar for male victims, although the proportion of males killed with a firearm in 2004-05 declined, with a firearm becoming the third most common weapon for male victims (19%). Fewer than one in 10 females were killed with a firearm in 2004-05.

    http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi141.html

    Yup, homicides from firearms go down, knives and other opportunistic weapons goes up.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yup, homicides from firearms go down, knives and other opportunistic weapons goes up.

    Yes. Thank you. :) Those are the stats I remember reading.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeanie wrote:
    Well I can't speak for Scotland and there hasn't been a repeat of the kind of massacre that was perpertrated by Martin Bryant, but you're dreaming if you think there hasn't been an increase in knife related deaths and stabbings. AND there have been more than a couple of incidents of innocent bystanders being shot or traumatized by criminals weilding guns in public places. Amongst other things. And lets not even start on how many people have been killed in the underworld wars here in Melbourne. ALL of which involved guns and just PURE LUCK that innocent bystanders haven't been killed. And an increase in gang related violence or violence in general. Semi automatics and automatic weapons are out there. Just none of the law abiding citizens that had them and never used them have them anymore.
    We probably would have had the same result in stopping massacres of the type perpertrated by Martin Bryant and his colleague Julian Knight if we had BETTER psychiatric services.

    you go girl. now we're working as a team. maybe we should make a few dozen laws against rape. maybe 12 more laws will stop them. and any idiot with $2.00 and a shotgun or rifle can make it into a handgun. all it takes is a hacksaw. so why the attack on handguns? i'd rather be hit with a 9mm bullet than the force of a sawed off shotgun. the UK has tried to take us twice. maybe they want to disarm us to try again. historically; taking countries is what they do.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    25, 171 firearms were reported stolen from 1994-95 to 1999-2000. 14 percent of these were handguns.

    http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/keyFacts_handguns.html

    Fancy that, so spree killings with semi-automatic weapons are still possible.

    Given all this, something ELSE must be the reason Australia hasn't had another spree killing since 1996. It has had suicide bombings though.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    Yes. Thank you. :) Those are the stats I remember reading.

    I don't like guns myself. I don't own one and probably never will.

    But I do like truth, I love truth... guns have little to nothing to do with murder.

    Most murders are the result of a number of different things. Brain tumors or incomplete brain development are some of the reasons. Social disorders and soceity are incompatible is another reason. Passion is another one. Economics. etc..
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    onelongsong wrote:
    you go girl. now we're working as a team. maybe we should make a few dozen laws against rape. maybe 12 more laws will stop them. and any idiot with $2.00 and a shotgun or rifle can make it into a handgun. all it takes is a hacksaw. so why the attack on handguns? i'd rather be hit with a 9mm bullet than the force of a sawed off shotgun. the UK has tried to take us twice. maybe they want to disarm us to try again. historically; taking countries is what they do.

    What's this team bizo white man? ;):p

    I think I'd rather be shot once and killed instantly than bleed to death from being stabbed in multiple spots.

    I can understand people being over all the gun massacres, they're a horrible thing. But I don't agree that guns are bad, or any worse than any other weapon if you're on the recieving end and the outcome is you die.
    What I'm tired of hearing is that it's all about the guns, when it's not JUST about the guns. It's about all whole bunch of stuff that nobody seems to take into consideration at all. I know plenty of people here that still have guns and I'd rather spend time in their company than some of the psycho nut cases I've come across who would kill me soon as look at me because they think I've got four heads or something or coz the little voices told em to and because we STILL haven't managed adequate mental health services and we STILL haven't shut down black market guns.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    25, 171 firearms were reported stolen from 1994-95 to 1999-2000. 14 percent of these were handguns.

    http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/keyFacts_handguns.html

    Fancy that, so spree killings with semi-automatic weapons are still possible.

    Given all this, something ELSE must be the reason Australia hasn't had another spree killing since 1996. It has had suicide bombings though.

    And again. Thank you. :)
    Any body would think we lived in some kind of gun free utopia.
    Spree killings with a semi automatic are definitely going to happen here again at some point.

    We had a suicide bombing???? On Australian soil since 1996????
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I don't like guns myself. I don't own one and probably never will.

    But I do like truth, I love truth... guns have little to nothing to do with murder.

    Most murders are the result of a number of different things. Brain tumors or incomplete brain development are some of the reasons. Social disorders and soceity are incompatible is another reason. Passion is another one. Economics. etc..


    I don't own a gun either Ahnimus and may or may not own one in the future. I can tell you that since the buy back and banning of so many guns that more than a few of my family and friends have considered learning how to use a gun and getting a permit for one. And since we bought in the bush it does make more sense to have one and know how to use it.

    I've always considered that if I was to die a violent death at the hands of someone else it would most likely be someone I know anyway and probably not involve a gun. There are so many factors that contribute to murder. The gun is the least of it really. Simply the tool. If one wasn't available people can and do move on to other choices.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    And again. Thank you. :)
    Any body would think we lived in some kind of gun free utopia.
    Spree killings with a semi automatic are definitely going to happen here again at some point.

    We had a suicide bombing???? On Australian soil since 1996????

    Technically Indonesia
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Technically Indonesia

    :D Well despite what Indonesia would probably like, we are seperate countries. ;):D

    But yes, Australians have been targetted specifically for being Australian in Indonesia by suicide bombers.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Pegasus
    Pegasus Posts: 3,754
    Jeanie wrote:
    Well I can't speak for Scotland and there hasn't been a repeat of the kind of massacre that was perpertrated by Martin Bryant, but you're dreaming if you think there hasn't been an increase in knife related deaths and stabbings. AND there have been more than a couple of incidents of innocent bystanders being shot or traumatized by criminals weilding guns in public places. Amongst other things. And lets not even start on how many people have been killed in the underworld wars here in Melbourne. ALL of which involved guns and just PURE LUCK that innocent bystanders haven't been killed. And an increase in gang related violence or violence in general. Semi automatics and automatic weapons are out there. Just none of the law abiding citizens that had them and never used them have them anymore.
    We probably would have had the same result in stopping massacres of the type perpertrated by Martin Bryant and his colleague Julian Knight if we had BETTER psychiatric services.

    I'm not saying there's no gun (or knives) problems! (I did mention it)

    I'm talking specifically of massacres on the scale of the ones that happened in the last few weeks! that's what the poster was referring to and that's why I'm talking about!

    banning guns is not the complete solution, but it's a big step in the right direction.

    difference between UK and US is that when someone get shot or stabbed, it still makes national news, because it's uncommon!

    (and I live and work in South London for whoever mentioned it..never been scared of walking down the street, no matter how late)

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